"Podiatry" through the D.O. (ortho) Route....

[Chamahk]

I actually like podiatry. So I was doing some research the other day and it seemed, it will be easier--with a poor academic records needing repair--to pursue foot and ankle surgery through D.O. school rather than podiatry school. Podiatry schools don't exercise grade replacement and my GPA is beyond salvageable if I apply to podiatry.

D.O. schools will allow grade replacement and give me a higher GPA when I factor in the grade replacements.

So going the ortho route, how will it be different vs. the people that go straight into the podiatry route? I know pods go straight into a residency involving the feet right away. Whereas an ortho might spend some years in prim care before finally starting surgery and then spending more time specializing in foot and ankle.

If I was to do a masters in a difficult science, will that not even give me a decent shot at pod school?
I actually would like to do research in bio-mechanics in addition to practicing as a surgeon; I also hope to eventually branch of into the academia aspect of the field later on, so I wouldn't mind a masters before pod school.

All I'm basically saying is this: I'm jealous of you folks that are going pod / have gotten into pod!

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[deleted480308]

You don't know enough about this process if you think getting an ortho residency will be easier than getting into podiatry school

 

[PodasaurusRex]

If your end goal is to be working with the foot and ankle it would be a pretty poor idea to go the DO route instead of podiatric med. If you happen to have the chops to nail Step 1 and get a high enough score to even match in an ortho residency you then have an additional 5 years of training. After that you would have to do a minimum 1 year foot and ankle fellowship to be considered a specialized orthopedic foot and ankle surgeon. If your grades are too low and you don't think you'd be able to get into a podiatric med program then your best bet is to do a special masters program and apply the following year. At least that route, assuming you complete school and match into a residency, your training will be guaranteed to be for foot and ankle surgery.

 

[torontopharm]

.

 

[PodasaurusRex]

I'm curious...Are Ortho's ineligible to operate on F/A without the fellowship?

No a general orthopedist could perform the foot and ankle stuff. It just depends on if the patient prefers a subspecialized F/A Orthopod to operate.

 

[ldsrmdude]

I'm curious...Are Ortho's ineligible to operate on F/A without the fellowship?

No a general orthopedist could perform the foot and ankle stuff. It just depends on if the patient prefers a subspecialized F/A Orthopod to operate.

I would even guess that more total foot and ankle cases are done by general orthopods than F&A trained ones. I don't know that for sure, but I'm just basing that on the fact that there are way more general orthopods than F&A ones.

 

[ArchiePod]

I find it interesting that you believe that getting into DO school will be an easier route to go. With the number of applicants applying to medical schools across the board sky rocketing year to year, it's probably going to be difficult whichever route you take (if your academic performance is as bad as you say). The grade replacement is nice through aacomas but schools still see which courses you have retaken and your transcripts.

I say chase whichever field you see yourself doing and where your heart is, and do whatever it takes to get there. Whether it be a masters or whatever. All I'm saying is applying DO isn't going to be a cake walk as they're receiving probably close to 20K applications per year while podiatry schools have been around 1000 (but we will see after this year). Good luck with it all.

 

[Weirdy]

Grade replacement early in your career does NOT equate snagging an ortho residency.

 

[burritodoc]

Reach out to some individual podiatry schools and discuss your situation with them. More than likely, you can schedule a phone appointment and tell them the situation with your grades. I find it very unlikely that there is no chance for podiatry if the passion is there, and if your MCAT is close to the average accepted pod MCAT score

 

[aries89]

I suggest you researching a little more about D.O. vs. podiatry. I can tell you right off the bat, if you are looking to go into ortho with a focus in foot and ankle, 100% do podiatry. Even if you have a mindset to go D.O and then do an orthopedic residency, that is not a guarantee. In fact, the chances of obtaining an orthopedic residency is very very hard. The numbers alone that you need to obtain on the STEP 1 is pretty high. I'm not sure if you are aware also about the D.O. and M.D. residency merger that in coming into effect within the next couple years. From my friend who matched into a D.O ortho residency last year, he said that the merger will make it 10 times more competitive to get in compared to before. Not only would you be competing for an ortho residency with D.O's but you would also be competing with M.D applicants. Just my 2 cents. Hope that helps, best of luck to you.

 

[surfguy84]

I actually like podiatry. So I was doing some research the other day and it seemed, it will be easier--with a poor academic records needing repair--to pursue foot and ankle surgery through D.O. school rather than podiatry school. Podiatry schools don't exercise grade replacement and my GPA is beyond salvageable if I apply to podiatry.

D.O. schools will allow grade replacement and give me a higher GPA when I factor in the grade replacements.

So going the ortho route, how will it be different vs. the people that go straight into the podiatry route? I know pods go straight into a residency involving the feet right away. Whereas an ortho might spend some years in prim care before finally starting surgery and then spending more time specializing in foot and ankle.

If I was to do a masters in a difficult science, will that not even give me a decent shot at pod school?
I actually would like to do research in bio-mechanics in addition to practicing as a surgeon; I also hope to eventually branch of into the academia aspect of the field later on, so I wouldn't mind a masters before pod school.

All I'm basically saying is this: I'm jealous of you folks that are going pod / have gotten into pod!

How in the world do you know you want to do something as specific as foot/ankle without having been exposed to the hundred other fields of medicine you may encounter in medical school?

Also, the average MCAT for pod school is like a 22/23 (on the old scale). The average MCAT for my class this year (DO school) was a 31. I'm not sure how you think that is easier.

 

[bobtheweazel]

How in the world do you know you want to do something as specific as foot/ankle without having been exposed to the hundred other fields of medicine you may encounter in medical school?

Also, the average MCAT for pod school is like a 22/23 (on the old scale). The average MCAT for my class this year (DO school) was a 31. I'm not sure how you think that is easier.

He was talking specifically about how the osteopathic application service allows grade replacement while the podiatric application service does not. That could boost him from, say, a 3.2 GPA for DPM apps to a 3.4 GPA for DO apps, depending on how many classes he retook.

 

[surfguy84]

He was talking specifically about how the osteopathic application service allows grade replacement while the podiatric application service does not. That could boost him from, say, a 3.2 GPA for DPM apps to a 3.4 GPA for DO apps, depending on how many classes he retook.

What he said was, it would be easier to pursue foot and ankle surgery through the DO route. That implies getting into a DO school, then getting into an orthopedic residency.

I know people in pod school with a 2.4-2.5 gpa but with a semi-decent MCAT score; one has a 27, not sure about the other.

I'd venture to say it'd be much easier to study and get a decent MCAT score to offset that low gpa than to go DO > Ortho. After all, he's going to need a decent MCAT to get into DO school these days, even with grade replacement. If he's able to do that, theres no reason a pod school won't take him and overlook that gpa.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I'd venture to say it'd be much easier to study and get a decent MCAT score to offset that low gpa than to go DO > Ortho. After all, he's going to need a decent MCAT to get into DO school these days, even with grade replacement. If he's able to do that, theres no reason a pod school won't take him and overlook that gpa.

I agree. I was just talking about how the OP used "easier" specifically when referring to getting accepted, not necessarily the rest of the schooling and residency.

I was doing some research the other day and it seemed, it will be easier--with a poor academic records needing repair--to pursue foot and ankle surgery through D.O. school rather than podiatry school. Podiatry schools don't exercise grade replacement and my GPA is beyond salvageable if I apply to podiatry.

D.O. schools will allow grade replacement and give me a higher GPA when I factor in the grade replacements.

For the record, OP, go podiatry. If someone already knows that they want to specialize in the foot & ankle then there is only one sensible option and that option is podiatry.

For a Foot & Ankle specialist:
DO route has wasted time in courses and rotations like OB/GYN.
DO route has risk of not matching into an orthopedic residency.
DO route has risk of not getting into a foot & ankle fellowship.
DO route would require 2 extra years of residency plus 1 extra year of fellowship vs DPM.

In addition:
DO general orthopedic residencies only have a minimum of 100 foot & ankle cases.
MD general orthopedic residencies only have an average of 159 leg/ankle procedures and 67 foot/toe procedures (I mention this since they're merging).
So really the vast majority of the foot and ankle knowledge would have to be gained in the six months to one year of fellowship (they only have one 6 month program).

Finally:
If the OP is actually interested in treatment of the entire foot & ankle including nervous, circulatory, integumentary, etc. then only the podiatry route could provide that.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...uments/basic-standards-orthopedic-surgery.pdf
http://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PDFs/260_National_Report_Program_Version.pdf

 

[surfguy84]

I agree. I was just talking about how the OP used "easier" specifically when referring to getting accepted, not necessarily the rest of the schooling and residency.



For the record, OP, go podiatry. If someone already knows that they want to specialize in the foot & ankle then there is only one sensible option and that option is podiatry.

For a Foot & Ankle specialist:
DO route has wasted time in courses and rotations like OB/GYN.
DO route has risk of not matching into an orthopedic residency.
DO route has risk of not matching into a foot & ankle fellowship.
DO route would require 2 extra years of residency plus 1 extra year of fellowship vs DPM.

In addition:
DO general orthopedic residencies only have a minimum of 100 foot & ankle cases.
MD general orthopedic residencies only have an average of 159 leg/ankle procedures and 67 foot/toe procedures (I mention this since they're merging).
So really the vast majority of the foot and ankle knowledge would have to be gained in the six months to one year of fellowship (they only have one 6 month program).

Finally:
If the OP is actually interested in treatment of the entire foot & ankle including nervous, circulatory, integumentary, etc. then only the podiatry route could provide that.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...uments/basic-standards-orthopedic-surgery.pdf
http://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PDFs/260_National_Report_Program_Version.pdf

That said, there are some benefits to DO (despite the very obvious risks of not matching ortho)...

1. Significantly higher income as an average ortho vs. average pod. Partly due to higher reimbursement rates as a MD/DO for the same procedure performed as a DPM (this shouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is).
2. Ability to perform more diverse procedures/diversify yourself.
3. Better job prospects; I know a recent ortho grad and he can basically write his own ticket as far as where in the country he wants to practice. I don't know any practicing DPMs but I've heard it's harder for them.
4. It's quite hard to know what you want to do for the rest of your life, especially before you even have exposure to a lot of it. You may find you have changed your mind (I certainly have) as your medical career progresses. With DO your options are wide open...obviously DPM doesn't allow that.

Should be mentioned DPM students also do rotations that have nothing to do with the lower extremity.

 

[Chamahk]

surgery's what interests me in medicine. i can't handle neuro, plastic, ortho, cardio; too intense, stressful and the money doesn't balance out the scale for me. not worth making $400k+ in exchange for stress, a lot of hours of working, patient dying because you screwed up. so when i learned about pods doing surgery i was hooked! there is a (small, but possible) chance i might not find work or good paying work to be able to pay off my loans, but having been such a screw-up in undergrad, I wont be fooling around in pod sch. I'll try to graduate top of the class and land at some of these top programs!

I liked that the hours of pods are also very good compared to the others. I've spoken to a pod also and she really enjoys her career. she didn't paint a rosey picture for me. she highlighted the residency shortage a few years back, told me she has buddies not making 6 figures, and being 200k+ in debt. but the positives were convincing enough for me. working on shadowing soon. the doc just has to get back in touch with me. To give you guys an idea how much I like pod, my parents are strongly against this and think I should go the traditional medical school route. but nope. I see myself doing podiatry instead.

my fantasy is this:
-in the office / clinic, I see patients, let them know if their condition requires surgery, or not; schedule surgeries and perform them
-Weekends or twice per week or whatever, go work in a clinic in an undeserved neighborhood (my pod does this)
-as I advance in practice and experience, I'll like to become more administrative and academic. I would like to teach, research, and eventually land a position with the APMA!

this doctor is the real deal (if you have the time to watch the video):


that's how I see myself ^^^ some day. maybe just not opening my own practice

the folks pointing out my mind can change are absolutely right. if that happens, it would be nice to branch into administration, teaching, and research (so a pod school that offers a combined MBA program will be real nice for me). medicine wasn't a first choice for me, but pod is something I actually like and will be happy doing as opposed to internist, ob/gyn (yes, i know my grades suck and I shouldn't be speaking as if it's easy to match into those specialties. just saying I like pod more)

the only negatives are:
1) possibility of work and getting to choose where you work; basically gotta take what comes but hard work and putting yourself out there should take care of that, I think. (Queens and Long Isld are my ideal places to live. if I can find a job not too far from there, I would be happy)
2) family not approving what I do and if it doesn't work out, they'll keep hitting me with the "I told you so"
3) prestige? (doesn't matter much, but if you get into a verbal argument w/ someone and they hit you w/ the "you're not a real doc".... would hurt, wouldn't it?)
4) so some pods actually makes less than $100k? hehehe


the ortho idea was just that my grades are soooooo bad, not much I can do to bypass the computer screening me out (I think). I need to repeat courses just to even get into a postbacc, folks

 

[Chamahk]

now, i took one of the suggestions that was thrown out there and I emailed some schools. answers:

nycpm - we look at the whole app, forget the MA/MS, go for a postbac, and make sure you do very well! consistently shadow
dmu - your overall gpa must meet the 2.7, we combine grad and undergrad for the overall, make sure all pre-reqs are C or better, some applicants go for masters' to demonstrate their abilities

waiting to hear back from the others.

NYCPM is my target school and they were so kind to link me up with an alumnus to contact and ask to shadow.

so right now I think I might retake classes and just apply. if I can get my average to come out to a 3.0, I can get through the screen-out system, get my app looked at, and that could give me a chance. or retake classes, get into a postbacc, and apply after the postbacc. both directions will require a very good MCAT so I'll really try and do my absolute best on that.

my plan was to go for a masters in chemistry because chem is where I had the most awful grades. I figured even a 3.3 with a masters in chem where I didn't repeat any courses, did research, and averaged mostly B's could give me a good lift. but if I can save money, and avoid the chem masters, why not?

 

[HappyHobPod]

doesn't matter much, but if you get into a verbal argument w/ someone and they hit you w/ the "you're not a real doc".... would hurt, wouldn't it?

Yes, it would. Willful ignorance is physically painful to be around.