Possible to have a life and be a cardiologist?

[QuakerMD]

Here's a question:

Is it possible to be a cardiologist and still have time for a family life? Say if one was to join a large group, would it be possible to have (somewhat) minimal call and work reasonable hours? How much pay would one have to sacrifice to do this? Cards seems pretty interesting to me, but I don't know if i can sacrifice myself to the HMO demons.

Thanks folks.

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[Kalel]

It's possible to have a life in any specialty you choose to do. You can always join large groups/hospitals, and agree to take less call or work fewer days for less money. Cardiologists can also do things that pay less like read echos or do stress tests and run ecg's all day for a pretty regular lifestyle. You should be aware that the cardiology fellowship itself is very rigorous though, and if you don't want a rigorous lifestyle after your training, you may not like the rigorous lifestyle that you have to have during your training. I have a cousin who was going to become a pediatric cardiologist; he was accepted at a fairly prestigious program, and he was planning on cutting back on his work hours after completing his fellowship, but he decided to quit mid-fellowship because the hours were just too tough for his stage of his life (being married, having young kids).

 

[bla_3x]

Where does a cardiology fellowship stand with respect to training (res/fellowship) in other fields (as far as time, stress, etc go)?

 

[Kalel]

It's probably one of the most stressful ones, in terms of hours and lifestyle. GI might be a close second, but I think that most people would agree that cards is first since they need to be in the hospital and available to do procedures at all hours of the day. Most fellows work pretty hard during their clinical months since most services require 24 hr coverage and there are fewer fellows then residents, but cards in particular gets called all the time at night. Of course, all fellowships have research months built into them which are generally less stressful and less time consuming then your clinical months.

 

[QuakerMD]

Thanks for the posts!

Here's another question- what are the chances of actually obtaining a fellowship spot it cards coming from a top-notch IM residency? At this point, is it still very important to do research?

Thanks- this is really helpful.

 

[cbc]

i heard pulmonary is pretty stressful too with resistant bacteria causing pneumonia or copd that causes death quickly, but definitely not as much as cardio.

Originally posted by Kalel
It's probably one of the most stressful ones, in terms of hours and lifestyle. GI might be a close second, but I think that most people would agree that cards is first since they need to be in the hospital and available to do procedures at all hours of the day. Most fellows work pretty hard during their clinical months since most services require 24 hr coverage and there are fewer fellows then residents, but cards in particular gets called all the time at night. Of course, all fellowships have research months built into them which are generally less stressful and less time consuming then your clinical months.

 

[waterbug]

I know this is a bit off topic of the forum, but does Pediatric Cardiology have a similar schedule as Adult Cardiology? (Both in terms of during fellowship and practice.)
Thanks!

 

[Galaxian]

sure, just don't do interventional. But you'd be taking a huge paycut...

 

[Kalel]

Originally posted by waterbug
I know this is a bit off topic of the forum, but does Pediatric Cardiology have a similar schedule as Adult Cardiology? (Both in terms of during fellowship and practice.)
Thanks!

My understanding is that their lifestyle in terms of rough hours and busy overnight calls is that they are approximately the same. There are far fewer peds patients who need to see cardiologists, but those patients who do are very sick and they go to major medical centers that only have one to a few peds cardiologists on staff. So, fewer peds patients plus fewer peds cardiologists adds up to roughly the same number of hours as an adult cardiologist. A pedetrician would be able to answer this question better then I could though.

 

[jgar26]

(To the poster who stated that not doing interventional cardiology would be a big paycut........


That is actually not true. As a 1st year cardilogy fellow I can tell you that the salary gap between interventional cardiology/non-interventional cardiology is narrowing. To take the time to do a left heart catherization with angioplasty and stent placement, one could have read 20 nuclear scans and scores of echos (assuming digital capability). In my program, the avg starting salaries for the non-interventional fellows is about $300,000. Now, that is including bonuses, etc.. but for every Crads graduate there are 10 jobs waiting. Nevertheless, life as a cardiologist will be stressful no matter what field (Invasive, EP, Heart failure, etc..) you pick. As a cards fellow, life is very rigorous, and the jump from IM residency to Cards fellowship is probably akin to College FB to NFL. It is a lot more stressful and demanding. As a 1st yr Cards fellow, while on a service month, I am easily working 80 hours a week, which in itself is ridiculous given the fact that I have done a three year IM residency. Call nights can suck with acute MI's needing to go to the cath lab emergently always seeming to happen at 2 am. Stat Echo's or TEE's needing to be done at 4 am on a surgical MVA. The ED calling you b/c they can't read a GD EKG.......Go into any ED anytime and you will see "Chest pain" as the most likely CC on the board. Yes, alot of those ptss are bogus. but with the incredible liability out there, ED docs have no choice but to consult Cards for an opinion.....ahhh, but I digress. I think Cardiology is a great specilaty, but it is BY FAR the most demanding IM specialty. The letters "GI" shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath when comparing lifestyles. Now I am not bragging, if you want to make a lot of money and not deal with constant life and death issues and not have to be coming in to the ED at 3 am, I would strongly consider GI. There is a reason why it is the most difficult specialty to get now days (Cards is right thre, but there are more spots for Cards). People considering Cards should really understand what they are getting themselves into. You will be 50 years old some day and will have to come into the ED at any given moment to do PTCA/ give lytics, place a Swan, etc....YOU HAVE TO SEE THE PT COMPLAINING OF CHEST PAIN. It will only get harder. There is a serious serious work force problem coming up in Cardiology. The population is getting older and with technology advancing as it is, we will need far more Cardiologists working in the future then we can train now. Yes that will mean big pay days for cardiologtists, but also a never ending work load. Think real hard about choosing this lifestyle.

 

[DrKnowItAll]

Given the hectic hours, I wonder if many would still choose to go into Cards if the pay was less, but hey, the bottom line has always been the mighty dollar and it will always remain that way.

To look at the big picture, if you desided to go to med school to make money, then you must be the dumbest person on the face of the earth. There are much better money making opportunites out there. No matter what field of medicine you go into, the difference between the lowest pay and the highest pay is not that much (maybe 3X). However, in the world of business, the possiblities are unlimited and depend only on your creativity and potential.

I would now feel like a total loser had I picked medicine for the money, because all my other friends are already doing a lot better financially than I ever will.

So to beat the bleeding horse to death, do what you love because at the end of the day you only have yourself to please and impress.

 

[QuakerMD]

Thanks for all of your responses. I am interested in Cards for the practice of it, and the money, while nice, is not incredibly important to me.

What I would like to know is this: do cardiologists tend to form large groups, thereby decreasing night call and overall hours? While I am very interested in the cardiovascular system, I still am hoping to have a great family life outside of work.

Thanks again.

 

[Kalel]

Originally posted by QuakerMD
Thanks for all of your responses. I am interested in Cards for the practice of it, and the money, while nice, is not incredibly important to me.

What I would like to know is this: do cardiologists tend to form large groups, thereby decreasing night call and overall hours? While I am very interested in the cardiovascular system, I still am hoping to have a great family life outside of work.

Thanks again.

Yup, cardiologists tend to form humongous groups. At least they do in my state. It's pretty cool, practically every cardiologists in this state belongs to one group and they have cardiothoracic surgeons salaried on their staff because CT surgeons would not be able to generate any business without them. Your fellowship will be challenging with a family, but after that, I've always thought that medicine is what you make of it. There's always someone looking for help a few days a week, you just have to be willing to take the pay cut associated with it.

 

[waterbug]

Thanks for the responses.

 

[lurkerboy]

Yes, but the junior people usually get the brunt of the call schedule. If you are looking for a cush lifestyle, cards might not be the best choice. In my experience, there is a lot of overlap with endocrine and you can focus on dyslipidemias....thats a great lifestyle!

Originally posted by QuakerMD

What I would like to know is this: do cardiologists tend to form large groups, thereby decreasing night call and overall hours? While I am very interested in the cardiovascular system, I still am hoping to have a great family life outside of work.

Thanks again.