Post-interview communication: Did it pan out?

[Elisabeth Kate]

Since this is a controversial topic most years, let's hear it from this year's match applicants. I'll start. I heard from my top 2. Both said I was a top candidate. I don't feel deceived since I still might have been, just not at the very top. I did get myself excited about going to one of them so it was disappointing not matching there. I got my 3rd choice which is a great program. I never heard from them post interview so it was a happy surprise when I found out I matched there.

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[cognitus]

I got positive communication from my #3. I matched at my #4. However, I read not to take post-interview communication seriously, but I was still optimistic. The point was driven home once I experienced it.

 

[Ronin786]

I sent thank-you notes to all my interviewers as well as a #1 email to my top program. Radio silence from their end, but I ended up matching there.

No matter how many responses you get, it's extremely hard to quantify the value of these post-interview letters. It's just too dependent on the applicant, the program and whatever happens during the interview.

In retrospect, I'd say they were ultimately useless, but it feels good knowing that you did everything in your power.

 

[Law2Doc]

Since this is a controversial topic most years, let's hear it from this year's match applicants. I'll start. I heard from my top 2. Both said I was a top candidate. I don't feel deceived since I still might have been, just not at the very top. I did get myself excited about going to one of them so it was disappointing not matching there. I got my 3rd choice which is a great program. I never heard from them post interview so it was a happy surprise when I found out I matched there.

A program that interviews and ranks 100 people for 10 spots, and traditionally goes 30 deep into it's rank list to fill, might consider the first 40 or so a "top candidate". The fact that folks ahead of you ranked this program high and it filled before it got to you doesn't mean that the program was insincere.

 

[littlejuan]

For me it did. But I have two friends who were told by a few programs they were ranked to match and they did not match in those programs.

 

[Law2Doc]

For me it did. But I have two friends who were told by a few programs they were ranked to match and they did not match in those programs.

That's why I don't like the "ranked to match" language. Programs usually base it on history rather than actual numbers of spots. So if the program is more popular with the top applicants in a given year than usual, someone who would have matched in every prior year might not. And then te program looks like it lied.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

A program that interviews and ranks 100 people for 10 spots, and traditionally goes 30 deep into it's rank list to fill, might consider the first 40 or so a "top candidate". The fact that folks ahead of you ranked this program high and it filled before it got to you doesn't mean that the program was insincere.

Please read my post before you respond. I said this very thing.

 

[Law2Doc]

Please read my post before you respond. I said this very thing.

I know. I was agreeing with that aspect of your post. Not everything I say is meant to be debate.

 

[foodle]

I was told I was RTM at my #1 and matched to my #1. Just another data point ...

 

[Andyg83]

I wrote to my top 5 personal thank you notes, the rest generic thank you notes, told my #1 that they were my #1...didn't hear back from any of my top 3...matched at my #1

So don't know if my thank you notes made a difference lol...the enigma continues!!!

 

[MerickManual]

Since lingo is program dependent, it'd be best to know residents at the programs you are interested in. They can give you a head's up on how the post-interview communication works for the specific program. But like anything in life, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Law2Doc]

Since lingo is program dependent, it'd be best to know residents at the programs you are interested in. They can give you a head's up on how the post-interview communication works for the specific program...

Speaking as a resident I can assure you the PDs don't generally share the content of their letters with the residency, even with those involved in the process. Our guess at the lingo would be no better than yours.

 

[MerickManual]

Speaking as a resident I can assure you the PDs don't generally share the content of their letters with the residency, even with those involved in the process. Our guess at the lingo would be no better than yours.

I meant in the sense of what the residents who matched at the program heard last year as applicants themselves. For example, a resident might say, " didn't hear anything after the interview and I still matched here," etc

 

[hungrycat]

Radio silence from my #1 but my #2 sent me very nice post-interview communication and I ended up at my #2.

 

[Kaputt]

Told my #1 they were my #1, they responded with a very positive email. Matched there.

Couple buddies of mine were RTM at programs, ranked them highly and matched there.

So good vibes on this end for sure.

 

[Modafinil]

Sent no thank you notes to interviewers, no post-interview communication from my #1, told my #1 they were my #1. Ended up at my #1.

 

[foodle]

So don't know if my thank you notes made a difference lol...the enigma continues!!!

Our PD says that he never remembers who sent thank you notes, but he certainly remembers who didn't.

It costs you basically zero time, and it's the polite thing to do, so just send the thank you emails. They won't help your chances of matching, but you'll make your mom proud.

 

[swamprat]

Wrote to my #1 telling them they are my #1, wrote to my #2 saying they were high on my list, ended up at my #3.

 

[AthensBeth]

Told my number 1 they were my Number 1, and they sent me an email in February saying I was ranked "to match, ie in our top 10." They have ten spots. They may have been more specific since I have a family and live in the same town, and they wanted me to know that I could make plans and such. And I matched there.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Take home would probably be, don't believe anything any program tells you period. Just interview, make your rank list based on your preferences, submit it and move on. Send thank you notes as a professional courtesy and not as a way to increase the odds. I'm not sure if it's the same for most programs, but many have already made up their minds shortly after your interview day anyways.

And for certain, never believe that someone says you are #1 on the program's match list and only put them as your sole ROL submission.

 

[Shinkansen]

Wrote to my #1 telling them they are my #1, wrote to my #2 saying they were high on my list, ended up at my #3.

Ditto this exact scenario for me.

 

[Thama]

I matched to my #1. I told them they were my #1 after the interview and got no response. Lesson: don't read into things more than is warranted.

 

[miborovsky]

Hey all,

I was inspired by this thread and decided to make a survey so that we can get a better picture of how often it is that programs & applicants aren't entirely honest with each other in their post-communication interview.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/VSDVCWW

10 simple questions that should be pretty straightforward. Will only take a few minutes at most!

Since the NRMP is unlikely to release this kind of data, it's up for us to get some (questionably) objective data in order to better advise future applicants.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Good survey. May I suggest that for question 6, you add another part? I think it's important to distinguish whether or not programs came through. The way it reads right now, people who were told they'd be ranked highly and ended up matching will answer exactly the same as someone who was told they'd be ranked highly and ended up not matching there. A better question might be for question 6 part (a) "You received post-interview communication from programs (regardless of who initiated it) implying or stating that you would be ranked highly by the them." And then question 6 part (b) "Did you feel the program was sincere?" And for answer choices for part b, make sure to include "yes," "no," and "don't know, because I matched somewhere I ranked higher".

Just a suggestion.

 

[miborovsky]

Ah that's a good point.

Unfortunately I don't think my basic account allows multi-part questions, I can't add another question since I'm already at the cap of 10.

Hopefully, question #7 can act as a proxy for whether the program "came through" or not.

 

[celtic7]

Wrote thank you cards to each individual who interviewed me, after each interview (kept each card to around 3 meaningful sentences, made sure to write them out that same night when done with the interview). I went on 10 interviews and even though the cards became annoying to write, I wrote them to be respectful and polite.

Wrote emails to my top 3 programs a month before rank lists were due. My emails just stated a few reasons why I would be extremely happy at their program.

Called my #1 several weeks before the rank list was due and informed them that they were my #1.

Matched at my #1 for peds at a dream institution.

To note, I did not receive any specific emails from programs telling me I was a top choice applicant. I do believe programs have begun to get away from this and it did not worry me. Good luck!

 

[mvenus929]

I wrote a thank-you to my #1. They were a bit of a reach program. I got an e-mail back from one of the chief residents thanking me for my interest. Didn't match.

I got a personally written thank you card from the PD of #2 at the end of interview season, and saw my interviewer later in the month and he acted very favorably. Didn't match there (and despite it being fairly popular among my classmates, only one person matched there).

I got multiple post-interview communications from #3, ranging from PD to interviewer to PC. Didn't match.

Heard absolutely nothing from #4, and ended up matching there.

 

[radfish723]

I wrote thank you notes to all my interviewers within a couple days of each interview, just to be polite.

I wasn't planning on writing a "you're my #1" email, but the PD at my #1 had encouraged me during the interview to stay in touch as the season wore down, so I did and got a really nice and personalized response that was like 2 paragraphs. So I felt good. (he specified that they hadn't had their rank meeting yet)

Matched at my #3. Womp wommmmmp.

haha, I'm satisfied though. But for the record, I did get a phone call from my #3 after their rank meeting, and my #2 was a reach so I didn't even bother.

 

[pietachok]

No clue how valid it is or when the changes will be in place, but one of the PDs at an interview said he was on some sort of committee that formulates the codes of acceptable behavior for the match, and he said sometime in the upcoming year or two, there will be much stricter regulation of communication between programs/applicants in terms of this back and forth love letter crap that jerks so many people around.

I got a RTM from 3 programs (one of which said specifically I was #1 on their ROL). They were the three at the bottom of my list, so I have no clue whether they were truthful. I matched to my #2 without ever sending any thank you letters except a blanket thank you email sent to the coordinator -- it was late in the season and my interview schedule was ridiculous b/c of all the weather complications and I got shamefully behind on communications. I was disappointed to not match to #1, but I assumed it was out of my league (invited probably as a local to fill a cancelation) . . . the sad thing is that I will always wonder "what if I'd been more on top of my thank you letters?"

I never received any other communication from programs directly specifically to me (as opposed to all applicants).

 

[Trogghunter]

Wrote thank you notes by hand for my 2-7 to 3 people at each program. Got lots of winks/nods in emails from 2-7. My no 1 said 'no post interview correspondence'. Matched at my no 1.

I spent hours on those darn thank you letters and stressing about my rank list even but my no 1 was no 1 by a long shot. Funny how that works out.

 

[manillabar]

I got "positive" emails from all but 2 of the 9 FM programs that I ranked, including my top 4 programs. I replied to all in kind with some vagueries - never told any one program they were my #1 (because my list kept changing up until the last minute), but mentioned things i liked about the program, etc... matched at my #2- a little sad that my #1 didn't come through but I don't think they lied, I just think it was a popular program. And i'm really, really happy with my #2 so i have no complaints

 

[ortho11111]

I wrote thank you notes to every program except one (because I lost my interview sheet in the rental car). I also got a very positive reply from my #1 program after I sent in my #1 email (along the lines of "work with you soon!").

Didn't match at my #1 (I'm bitter about being misled and will cross this program off my list for fellowships). Instead I matched at the program several ranks down that I didn't write a thank you note or had any contact with haha.... Thankfully it was a top academic program in a super popular city, but far from my family.

Conclusion: I think thank you notes are a waste of time.

 

[The kitchen sink]

Thanked my #1 and #2 post interview, did not hear back from either. Did not send any thank you to my #3. Matched #3.

 

[Sunshine1025]

I dual applied.. but that's a long story for another day. 13 interviews of one specialty, 2 of the other (which I ended up ranking #1 and 2). Interviewed very late at what ended up being my #1 program - was honestly not even expecting to interview there. Not sure how I even got an interview at somewhere so competitive so late in the game. They called me personally on a Friday asking me to come on the following Monday. Got a hand written card in the mail two days after my interview from one of the chief residents. Didn't write thank you notes. In January (a week later) I got a generic email to all interviewees saying I wouldn't hear anything after my interview due to policy (even though I already had..?). Put my rank list together. Emailed program director I was ranking them at the "top of my list". Crickets, kind of expected. Matched at my #1 program. Was a very bizarre series of events.

 

[orangejello]

I sent no post-interview thank you letters. I sent a "ranking you #1" email to my top program. They replied that I was ranked to match. Matched at my #1.

 

[cognitus]

Take home would probably be, don't believe anything any program tells you period. Just interview, make your rank list based on your preferences, submit it and move on. Send thank you notes as a professional courtesy and not as a way to increase the odds. I'm not sure if it's the same for most programs, but many have already made up their minds shortly after your interview day anyways.

And for certain, never believe that someone says you are #1 on the program's match list and only put them as your sole ROL submission.

Whoever ranks only one program when he/she interviewed at more deserves not to match

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Whoever ranks only one program when he/she interviewed at more deserves not to match

It's called a suicide rank list for a reason

 

[futureNCmed]

No. Even had the PD at my school contact the PD of my #1 and tell him himself that I was ranking them #1. Since they are good friends, I felt this would mean more. My PD then told me that my #1 PD said they liked me very much and should "be good" at said program. Ended up ranking at #4. Was mildly disappointed at first (mostly surprised b/c I though I "was good" at #1) but now very happy. my #4 (where I ended up matching) was very active post-interview (lots of thank you notes and even birthday and Christmas cards) but this might be what they do with everyone. Either way I'm happy that I matched and didn't fall below #5.

Point being --> don't believe anything anyone says. Even if from a very reliable source, you never know how the match algorithm will work.

 

[RadSooner]

I sent thank you emails to the PD and coordinator at my top ~5 programs. Told my #1 they were my #1, they responded positively but were appropriately vague/noncommittal. I matched there. What was cooler to me was that I sent them a letter of interest, was told I was waitlisted, then invited for an interview a month later. Then had to reschedule my interview with one day notice due to weather and ended up at their last interview day. Love the way things work out sometimes.

 

[Ronin786]

No clue how valid it is or when the changes will be in place, but one of the PDs at an interview said he was on some sort of committee that formulates the codes of acceptable behavior for the match, and he said sometime in the upcoming year or two, there will be much stricter regulation of communication between programs/applicants in terms of this back and forth love letter crap that jerks so many people around.

I got a RTM from 3 programs (one of which said specifically I was #1 on their ROL). They were the three at the bottom of my list, so I have no clue whether they were truthful. I matched to my #2 without ever sending any thank you letters except a blanket thank you email sent to the coordinator -- it was late in the season and my interview schedule was ridiculous b/c of all the weather complications and I got shamefully behind on communications. I was disappointed to not match to #1, but I assumed it was out of my league (invited probably as a local to fill a cancelation) . . . the sad thing is that I will always wonder "what if I'd been more on top of my thank you letters?"

I never received any other communication from programs directly specifically to me (as opposed to all applicants).

The NRMP really should look into this. If they're so about the "spirit of the match" they should institute some sort of ban on any ranking communication. It's a silly game, one that I regret partaking in, and it would be better if people just ranked folks how they wanted them.

 

[Knightmd]

I wrote a laa-hooong Thank You note the next day after the interview at my #1 to both the chairman and PD.... I explained what I loved about the interviews, the program and re-iterated my strengths and why I think I'll be a good fit.... I got nothing in return. Then I wrote another thank you and alerted them I'll be ranking them #1 the week before the ROL deadline, then received nothing. Then the day before the ROL deadline I said more or less the same thing, to which I received a "thank you for the update" email. Exactly those words without even punctuation. I sort of came to peace with me not landing my #1, but I wasn't devastated as my #2 was an Ivy League.... cut to Monday when the leak happened, and surprise surprise, I landed my #1.

The same scenario happened with another guy I know...

On the other hand, I know a girl who kept receiving from the program emails and cards by mail encouraging her to rank them higher and saying how much they wanted her in the program, she ranked them #1 but didn't match there.

 

[551151]

Hey all,

I was inspired by this thread and decided to make a survey so that we can get a better picture of how often it is that programs & applicants aren't entirely honest with each other in their post-communication interview.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/VSDVCWW

10 simple questions that should be pretty straightforward. Will only take a few minutes at most!

Since the NRMP is unlikely to release this kind of data, it's up for us to get some (questionably) objective data in order to better advise future applicants.

Please take the survey - it will be really helpful to future applicants who stress on post interview communication. And I am interested in seeing the results.

I received positive post interview communication from my number 1 and matched there. However they chose to not reply to any of my thank you emails, but invited me for a "second look party", then when I thanked them for the "second look party" - again I did not get a reply from anyone. However, I did recieve a call on a random saturday where the PD non-specifically asked me to keep them in mind when I completed my rank list. I told him my ROL was complete and they were on top of my list. I was always going to rank them number 1, and I knew that before I applied. But I believe my program is a rare breed where they are actually honest or set the expectations well with their candidates.

Truth is some people will always get burned, and some will get what they expected. But you could have gotten positive RTM emails and you could have been ranked last and still matched there. Its hard to tell. As always, rank programs based on your preferences and don't buy into any of the post interview communiations. But I would still recommend sending thank you notes just b/c it shows professional courtesy.

 

[DocBlin]

This has been going on for "years'... You need to understand the PDs get pressure to chose the "most qualified" applicants and than rank them. These post interview communications are just posturing by both the applicants vs the PDs. NEVER take you are RTM as anything but that. You are going to match, but where who knows??? Letters/cards/niceties from the residents or PC hold no weight. Nothing is written in stone. The lessons learned are to do your best, in med school/the STEPS/interviews than it becomes the computer matching you to the program. Bad system going to become worse by the additional #s of applicants vs not enough positions...

 

[miborovsky]

Hey all,

I was inspired by this thread and decided to make a survey so that we can get a better picture of how often it is that programs & applicants aren't entirely honest with each other in their post-communication interview.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/VSDVCWW

10 simple questions that should be pretty straightforward. Will only take a few minutes at most!

Since the NRMP is unlikely to release this kind of data, it's up for us to get some (questionably) objective data in order to better advise future applicants.

Please take the survey - it will be really helpful to future applicants who stress on post interview communication. And I am interested in seeing the results.

I received positive post interview communication from my number 1 and matched there. However they chose to not reply to any of my thank you emails, but invited me for a "second look party", then when I thanked them for the "second look party" - again I did not get a reply from anyone. However, I did recieve a call on a random saturday where the PD non-specifically asked me to keep them in mind when I completed my rank list. I told him my ROL was complete and they were on top of my list. I was always going to rank them number 1, and I knew that before I applied. But I believe my program is a rare breed where they are actually honest or set the expectations well with their candidates.

Truth is some people will always get burned, and some will get what they expected. But you could have gotten positive RTM emails and you could have been ranked last and still matched there. Its hard to tell. As always, rank programs based on your preferences and don't buy into any of the post interview communiations. But I would still recommend sending thank you notes just b/c it shows professional courtesy.

Hey thanks, I'm shamelessly plugging my survey here, gotten 90 or so respondents from SDN and /r/medicalschool since I made it yesterday afternoon. Would love to get a bigger sample size. Already made some interesting observations! I'll keep collecting data for another day or two and post the results here (or in a new thread).

Link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/VSDVCWW

 

[non-descript]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22914523
study looking at postinterview communication and results

 

[franniemeow07]

Post-interview communication should be banned. End of story. What foreseeable benefit could it have on the ranking process? All of this post-interview manipulation is ridiculous and wastes so much time and energy, not to mention the misguided souls who actually let it influence the way they rank and their own expectations.

 

[Kissmyabjj]

A

Post-interview communication should be banned. End of story. What foreseeable benefit could it have on the ranking process? All of this post-interview manipulation is ridiculous and wastes so much time and energy, not to mention the misguided souls who actually let it influence the way they rank and their own expectations.

Agreed. It would also be a load off not having to write a million personalized thank-you letters.

 

[md86]

Post-interview communication should be banned. End of story. What foreseeable benefit could it have on the ranking process? All of this post-interview manipulation is ridiculous and wastes so much time and energy, not to mention the misguided souls who actually let it influence the way they rank and their own expectations.

Agreed 100%. Here's my story - Knew what was going to be my #1 pretty early (wife planned on staying for a 3 yr fellowship) in 4th year so scheduled an away elective there. Program is in the midwest, but i'd consider it a rather in-bred, lower tier program. I'm a carib-IMG so i knew my work was gonna be cut out, but it gets much worse.

Got a letter from the PD post my interview (Dec) stating that he "heard extremely positive comments" about me from the residents and the attendings I interviewed with and how he hopes that he will give the program "strong consideration". Got a Seasons greetings card as well. signed by the whose who of the program.

Elective rotation was after the interview, where (in spite of being January of M4 year) I worked my behind off. Every single person I worked with knew the very reason I'm trying is because my wife will be staying on for 3 years. I never openly said it but i guess it's understood that for both personal and professional (to an extent...it IS a univ program) this place was going to be my #1.

PC runs into my wife sometime in Feb stating how "the residents absolutely loved" her husband and "fingers crossed". Also, PD replied to my thank you/ranking #1 email with "we will be happy to work with you next year".

All this and i still didn't get in.

So yes, post interview coochy-coo should be banned. Sucks to be away from one's spouse for 3 years.......major overhaul of our life's plans

 

[fitz0809]

Post-interview communication should be banned. End of story. What foreseeable benefit could it have on the ranking process? All of this post-interview manipulation is ridiculous and wastes so much time and energy, not to mention the misguided souls who actually let it influence the way they rank and their own expectations.

I agree with the fact that it should not affect the way you rank programs. In my case it was helpful though as I was able to save some money by cancelling some interviews later in the season. I DO NOT RECOMMEND this for most circumstances- but it felt right to me and I trusted the response I got, not to mention I put a lot of time and effort into making a good impression there.

Also worth noting that the specialty I matched into is not highly competitive- more middle of the road.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Your rank list is YOUR preferences on where you want to train. It may be based on geography, on what you thought about the program after the interview, or a whole mix of considerations. You should rank those places you are willing to work at, and not rank those that you would be absolutely miserable at (unless you think that going through the SOAP or not having an internship/residency is better). Assume whatever is said after the interview, and maybe during the interview, is a lie (to protect yourself). If it makes you like the program better, rank them higher. But think of it like a used car salesman (or any salesman, advertisement, or business transaction). If it's not down on paper as a contract, it means absolutely nothing. No matter how many promises they say about where you are on their ROL (rank order list), it really doesn't matter. Just rank everything you like in the order you like it, and wait until match day, or until the NRMP messes up again.