Potential Reapp/Need Advice

[futuresurgofsomekind]

Hey Guys, definitely need your advice on this one. This cycle has been a rollercoaster of emotions and unfortunately, it has ended at the bottom of it. I received 5 II's, and I am thankful for it. All of them are from solid schools. Much to my chagrin, four of them ended up as waitlists and one ended up as an R. Kinda feeling defeated right now. Not sure where to go and would love some advice from you guys on how to improve for the next cycle.

Demographics: ORM, Male, VA Resident
Top Public Undergrad
516 MCAT, 3.85 gpa ,3.78
Research: Two and half years (half of it was canceled due to covid and no access to lab, no pubs/poster, Strong LoR from PI though.
Clinical: 800 hours as practicing EMT. 40 hours shadowing Vascular Surgery, 50 hours shadowing Anesthesiologist.
Volunteer: 100 hours at cancer center, 100 hours as member then 100 hours as director of volunteer organization at university in Latin Migrant Aid. Spanish minor/ emphasis on serving these populations throughout the application and mastering the language.
Hobbies: Rugby, Ski team.
Currently: Member of AmeriCorps will end with 1800 hours of service, also starting as a Spanish interpreter in the clinic soon.
Weak Points: Research- no poster/presentation or publication. No "x-factor". Potentially interviewing, most interviewers complimented me and many said they would love to have me there which only rubbed salt in my wound. Need to Shadow primary care? Maybe red flag in some LoRs?

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[chilly_md]

Work on interviewing as that is likely the issue after getting 5 II's. There is plenty of time left to see how the 4 WL's turn out. Get some trusted and experienced people to read over your essays as well. What was your school list and where did you get interviews? A WL at one of your IS schools might have a good chance at converting to an A depending on how often they've pulled from it in the past.

 

[candbgirl]

Could you share your list? And indicate where you received interviews . It really sounds like bad interview skills but it might just be a bad list of schools. Did you use the MSAR to develop your list? When were you complete? 5 interviews is pretty amazing. And you still might receive an A from one of the schools. Don’t give up hope. Have you sent an update letter?

 

[KnightDoc]

Your app looks fine. Quite frankly, with 4 WLs in mid-February, I think it is far too soon to declare this a busted cycle. You are statistically likely to receive an A. With all due respect to the other posters, until we know whether or not all of the WLs are nothing more than soft Rs, there is no basis for saying 4 WLs mean poor interviewing skills. The sample size is just too small, and, as noted above, we don't know which schools we are talking about. Hang in there!!!

 

[futuresurgofsomekind]

Could you share your list? And indicate where you received interviews . It really sounds like bad interview skills but it might just be a bad list of schools. Did you use the MSAR to develop your list? When were you complete? 5 interviews is pretty amazing. And you still might receive an A from one of the schools. Don’t give up hope. Have you sent an update letter?

Also I did not use MSAR which could have been very detrimental. Definitely wish I went on here before I applied so I really knew what was going on. Everyone thought I was easily going to get in and I was sorely mistaken as I had not really gotten advice from those who have been through it in the last few years.

 

[chilly_md]

GW and Jefferson get a lot of applications and are low-yield. I think Tufts as well. It is an accomplishment to make it through that and get an II from those places. While it is too early to say for sure about your interview skills, I wanted to point that out first in case it does not work out. And usually having a high degree of WLs leans towards that being the reason. An interview is different than regular interactions with people. Especially with virtual ones and whether you had an MMI format vs traditional.

I would have advised applying to UVA. Albany, Drexel and NYMC are also low-yield. Temple perhaps as well. If you like EVMS a lot, that seems like your best bet and an LOI might be helpful there as candbgirl mentioned if they allow those.

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[KnightDoc]

Also I did not use MSAR which could have been very detrimental. Definitely wish I went on here before I applied so I really knew what was going on. Everyone thought I was easily going to get in and I was sorely mistaken as I had not really gotten advice from those who have been through it in the last few years.

No. No need to beat yourself up. Clearly you underestimated the difficulty of getting into med school, but your list is very appropriate given your profile. I would have applied to another 10 or so schools, but you did pretty well with 5 IIs, and, as I said, it's REALLY not over in mid-February with 4 WLs.

 

[Schwifty]

FWIW a friend of mine applied last year with a nearly identical app and got WL at 5 schools. Then in May, or whenever it is that MD students have to commit to one school he literally got off 4 WL within 2 weeks. So it’s not over yet!

 

[chilly_md]

No, it is unlikely anybody will dox you if you say where you were rejected post-II. People do it all the time. You do not have any significant post history to make it a worry either.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I think that the interview 3, a doctor you’ll be needs to be amended, especially if virtual interviews are here to stay.

 

[futuresurgofsomekind]

I think that the interview 3, a doctor you’ll be needs to be amended, especially if virtual interviews are here to stay.

Why do you say that?

 

[KnightDoc]

Why do you say that?

This^^^^^^. There was speculation last cycle that virtual interviews would cause top performers to hog up all the slots, later disrupting yields and causing WL chaos. Some schools compensated by interviewing more applicants to build a larger WL. Ultimately, chaos did not ensue and, if anything, WL movement seemed to be less than normal at a lot of schools.

Interview 3 and a doctor you will be is a rough rule of thumb based on nothing more than average post-II acceptance rates that take WL movement into account. The vast majority of schools have not altered either the number of people they interview or the number of acceptances they offer in response to virtual interviewing. As a result, there is no reason to amend anything.

@voxveritatisetlucis -- It is worth keeping in mind that there is no "one size fits all" in med school admissions. On the one hand, you know full well that you are a very unique case with a very unusual set of circumstances, and yet you also seem to be constantly amazed that general rules of thumb just don't apply to you! Your cycle isn't over yet, and when WL movement is all said and done, you might very well end up with a 33% conversion rate. And if you don't, you already know why, and it is going to have nothing to do with needing to amend the general rule of thumb for everyone else!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Maybe it’s confirmation bias, but I see more people on multiple (3-4+ than usual) but it could just be higher number of interviews attended on average = more waitlists

 

[KnightDoc]

Maybe it’s confirmation bias, but I see more people on multiple (3-4+ than usual) but it could just be higher number of interviews attended on average = more waitlists

Absolutely confirmation bias. Just look at any prior cycle. You will see exactly the same thing.

Again, the theory going into last cycle was that people would hog up interviews they wouldn't otherwise take because their was no monetary cost to do so, and that would in turn mess with yields and WL movement. It just didn't happen, at least not to the extent that it changed anything on a macro level.

Same thing now. People are, in fact, declining IIs all over the place, while others are grabbing each and every one that is offered. Some people have 10+IIs while others have a small handful and still others have none. You are seeing what you are looking for.

 

[LizzyM]

Still more than a week until Mardi Gras this year (March 1). Good for you for being proactive and looking for how to improve.
I do expect that you'll get an offer from the waitlist by May 15th. Yes it is a long wait but the schools need to see how many empty seats they'll have to fill after the superstars make their final selections. Keep in mind, schools are making 2-4 offers for every seat they have and some applicants are holding 4 or more offers meaning that when the music stops, some schools will have empty seats because the applicants that they admitted chose to sit elsewhere.

 

[futuresurgofsomekind]

Still more than a week until Mardi Gras this year (March 1). Good for you for being proactive and looking for how to improve.
I do expect that you'll get an offer from the waitlist by May 15th. Yes it is a long wait but the schools need to see how many empty seats they'll have to fill after the superstars make their final selections. Keep in mind, schools are making 2-4 offers for every seat they have and some applicants are holding 4 or more offers meaning that when the music stops, some schools will have empty seats because the applicants that they admitted chose to sit elsewhere.

Thanks so much, LizzyM! Im crossing my fingers! I guess my next question to you as a member of an adcom is why would an application like mine not lend itself to any direct A's? Is there something Im missing that could change that if another cycle were necessary? Also- would you reccomend reapplying immediately or taking another year in between? Thanks sm in advance for your time.

 

[LizzyM]

Maybe you haven't been around long enough to have heard of my analogy of the staircase. Imagine a broad staircase with room for many people on each step. Applicants are arrayed on the staircase and those at the top are granted admission into the building for interviews. Once inside and after the interviews, the applicants are again placed on a broad staircase more or less as they were on the previous staircase with the exception that someone who did very well in the interview may have moved up a stair or two and someone who did very poorly may move down a few steps or to the very bottom (put your feet on the Dean's desk, clean your fingernails with a brochure during the interview, throw your coat on the floor because an office worker who showed you the coat closet didn't take the coat from you and hang it up for you.)

Now the school is going to select a proportion of those on the staircase for admission and it will start at the top. In some cases, they'll say they are "rolling" and admit the 5-10% at the top of the staircase each month knowing that eventually the top 30-50% will be admitted. You might not be in that top 5-10% in month #1 but depending on who comes in behind you, you might be at the top the following month.

Schools are also trying to figure out the "mushy middle" If they are going to admit 50% of the applicants and they start ranking them, they know the top 25% but they are waiting for that mushy middle to sort itself out. You wouldn't want to admit someone who will be eventually ranked at the 45th percentile and not have room for someone at the 52nd percentile because you were premature in making offers. So, you waitlist and wait until you have a better picture of the entire pool after interviews.

I hope that all these ideas make sense.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hey Guys, definitely need your advice on this one. This cycle has been a rollercoaster of emotions and unfortunately, it has ended at the bottom of it. I received 5 II's, and I am thankful for it. All of them are from solid schools. Much to my chagrin, four of them ended up as waitlists and one ended up as an R. Kinda feeling defeated right now. Not sure where to go and would love some advice from you guys on how to improve for the next cycle.

Demographics: ORM, Male, VA Resident
Top Public Undergrad
516 MCAT, 3.85 gpa ,3.78
Research: Two and half years (half of it was canceled due to covid and no access to lab, no pubs/poster, Strong LoR from PI though.
Clinical: 800 hours as practicing EMT. 40 hours shadowing Vascular Surgery, 50 hours shadowing Anesthesiologist.
Volunteer: 100 hours at cancer center, 100 hours as member then 100 hours as director of volunteer organization at university in Latin Migrant Aid. Spanish minor/ emphasis on serving these populations throughout the application and mastering the language.
Hobbies: Rugby, Ski team.
Currently: Member of AmeriCorps will end with 1800 hours of service, also starting as a Spanish interpreter in the clinic soon.
Weak Points: Research- no poster/presentation or publication. No "x-factor". Potentially interviewing, most interviewers complimented me and many said they would love to have me there which only rubbed salt in my wound. Need to Shadow primary care? Maybe red flag in some LoRs?

Congrats on the IIs and sympathy for the 4 WLs.

You are smart on one hand to continue updating (when they are accepted and when you have something to write about) the schools where you have been waitlisted and in parallel to prepare for a reapplication so that you can hit the ground running next time around

If you are applying to research oriented programs, do try to get some research experience. However the fact that you got those 5 IIs indicates that you chose schools that would be more impressed with your rich community and clinical experience than bothered by a lack of research. You don't say how many programs you applied to or when you applied. Your X Factor should be your AmeriCorps experience and commitment to Latin, underserved populations so I don't think that's it. I also suspect that your essays, activities, etc were pretty good.

If you do end up rejected this cycle, I suggest:

1. Make sure to include this year's accomplishments in your activities and essays so that schools see growth.
2. Do get interview coaching in case your interviews were a problem.
3. If you can start doing volunteer in a lab. (I know: easier said than done)
4. Apply early, even if you are still no a waitlist.

Please post if you do get in this cycle.

 

[Hzreio]

Interviews + narrative