Pros and Cons and feedback of the Navy's Internship program

[erg923]

Just as the title says, I'm seeking feeback, impressions, and pros and cons of the Navys internship programs in Bethesda and San Diego.

Most notably, what is the time commitment you have to be enlisted?, can they ship/station you overseas? how much control does one have over where you get stationed? How much of your loans do they pay back?, Is the clinical training/activites really any different from the civilian sector and civilian internships? Can one get npsych experience? If so, are you allowed to pursue a post-doc in neuro (or any specialized post docs for that matter) after the internship? It's my impression you have to work for them (ie., not pursue a post-doc) for 5 years or so after the internship, no?

oh, and do i get a gun? haha

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[73BARMYPgsp]

Mark?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Just as the title says (excpept I meant "pros", not "prods")

*fixed*

 

[deleted176373]

Just as the title says, I'm seeking feeback, impressions, and pros and cons of the Navys internship programs in Bethesda and San Diego.

Most notably, what is the time commitment you have to be enlisted?, can they ship/station you overseas? how much control does one have over where you get stationed? How much of your loans do they pay back?, Is the clinical training/activites really any different from the civilian sector and civilian internships? Can one get npsych experience? If so, are you allowed to pursue a post-doc in neuro (or any specialized post docs for that matter) after the internship? It's my impression you have to work for them (ie., not pursue a post-doc) for 5 years or so after the internship, no?

oh, and do i get a gun? haha

1. You won't be enlisted, you will be commissioned as an officer, it's an important difference. The military is very much a caste system, Officers are the upper caste, enlisted the lower caste (this does not negate their contribution.) That said, the basic commitment is 4 years total including internship IIRC. You enter with a base salary just north of 70k/year with housing allowances and benefits IIRC, I would have to run the exact numbers. At the end of your fourth year you should be expected to make around $92-98,000 ($5k for licensing and $6k if you are ABPP certified) assuming you have never served in the military before and you are serving in the DC metro area (of course this varies by duty station and local cost of living.)

2. You will have to get licensed quickly if you want your time owed clock to start ticking, the Navy will not pay back student loans until you are licensed. They will pay back 30k per year up to $120k at this point in time.

3. Yes, you can get stationed oversea's but it's unlikely unless you ask for it, I know one girl who got Japan (I am envious.) You won't do a ship based tour (or if you do it would be VERY unusual during your first tour and only if you are licensed.) You will take a 3 month cruise during your internship (this is fun from what I hear) and it will be on a carrier with the rest of your internship class. At the end of your internship, provided you saved your leave, you will have about 30 days of vacation to enjoy as well. You will get a list of available openings, which you will rank order... most people got one of their top 2 choices out of internship from a list of 13 or so if I remember correctly.

4. Is it different, Hell ya it's different. In some ways it's the same, in others it's very different. They send you off for a week to go play with the Marines and shoot guns. They pay you a real salary that you can live off of, and you can defer your loans for 3 years on active duty IIRC. You see military service members primarily. Some of your patients will be wounded veterans. You'll likely see a wide variety of patients from in patients to out patients. It's intense... you'll do security screenings, fitness for duty, therapy, testing, and be challenged in didactic training. Yes, you can get some neuro-training at Bethesda I believe, but check with the training director there. You won't likely be able to pursue a post-doc immediately after training, but you might be able to, once again, this is a question for the training director. The sooner you get licensed the sooner you are eligible for this kind of opportunity. The Navy is very generous about allowing people to get additional training, but does expect a payoff for the training that they will allow you to get on their dime. I have not seen a requirement to serve a particular amount of time before being allowed to pursue a post-doc, but I would expect that they would want you to be licensed first and it wouldn't hurt to be ABPP certified (plus it's $11k more a year.) Licensure will be expected to be your number 1 priority post internship. Once you have that knocked out of the way, they will be much more receptive to allowing additional training.

6. I know nothing about the San Diego internship, but the Bethesda one is challenging, and the supervision is good. I've sat in on the didactic training of the interns and can tell you first hand that they are kept hoping during the year... if possible have your dissertation defended before you start, you'll be much happier. If you can get a military practicum placement and an opportunity to learn AHLTA (the computerized military medical record system) you'll be ahead of the game.

Finally, I would encourage you to speak with Dr. Getka or CDR Ralph regarding the expectations and opportunities. I am speaking from outside the inner circle looking in, which means that my information is limited in scope and should be verified with them (preferably without identifying me as the source. LOL!)

I wish you the best of luck,

Feel free to ask questions.

Mark

PS - As I understand it, if you deploy to a war zone, yes... you get a gun, but you are not a combatant.

 

[erg923]

awesome information! Thank you so much. A couple other things:

1. I have had a practicum at VA, but thats the extent of my experience with the aremed forces. I am not the "military type,"if that makes any sense. That is, I am pretty passive and have been an ardent opponet of the war in Iraq, etc. Would this be an issue, either for me personally or for them?

2. What makes one competitive for this particular internship? I am in a ph.d program, have a variety of experiences, and my research is neuro focused. How important is research track record for this internship? As you know, for many internship sites, its a big factor, even thoiugh its a clinical internship.

3. Wife is only supportive of this if we do NOT go overseas. How much can this be reassured?

4. I noticed that last year 22 people applied and they interviewed those 22. They took 6 of those. Seems remarkably less competitive (numbers wise) than many other internship placements, even many of the non APA accredited ones. Is this simply do to the fact that its the military and thus, alot of people just dismiss it? Any idea what made those 6 "fit" (ie., match) well with the internship program? Does one need anything diferent or special in their vita (or personality) to match in the Navy program vs what it takes to match in other civilian internship slots?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

4. I noticed that last year 22 people applied and they interviewed those 22. They took 6 of those. Seems remarkably less competitive (numbers wise) than many other internship placements, even many of the non APA accredited ones. Is this simply do to the fact that its the military and thus, alot of people just dismiss it?

A few of my friends went the military route (Navy, Army, Air Force), and it seems very self-selecting. They each put a lot of time into researching the positions, talking to representatives, etc. It obviously isn't for everyone, but certain people go into programs knowing they want to pursue a military career. Many people will take a stab at a place like Brown, float an app to Duke, but how many will throw an app for an Army/Navy/etc spot? Not many...you either want it or don't.

 

[deleted176373]

awesome information! Thank you so much. A couple other things:

1. I have had a practicum at VA, but thats the extent of my experience with the armed forces. I am not the "military type,"if that makes any sense. That is, I am pretty passive and have been an ardent opponent of the war in Iraq, etc. Would this be an issue, either for me personally or for them?

Personally, I think it could be an issue for you.

If you can't bear the idea of being deployed, have difficulty understanding the mindset that allows one to serve the country regardless of your political masters, or simply are a pacifist. The military is not likely to be a good fit, however this is an intensely personal issue. There are those who simply care enough about this special group of clients that we get in the military that the politics is not an issue. They are very separate things, at least for me they are.

If you cannot connect with your clients, or would have difficulty being part of an organization that specializes in breaking things and blowing things up, you might have difficulty fitting in. Especially when treating Marines who live a very rigid warrior lifestyle and many have a desire to see combat action or return to theaters of operation.

There are a lot of great things about the military that you will only experience in the military, just as there are down sides of service. You'll make fast friends in the military and quickly develop a diverse group of contacts that will enable you to experience, learn, and view life in a way that others simply won't have the opportunity to share in. When you get to a new base, people make an effort to provide social support, reach out in ways you will never see in civilian life. On the otherhand, you'll find that things can be uncertain in the military in ways you never imagined and are uncomfortable to those who are not seasoned.

2. What makes one competitive for this particular internship? I am in a ph.d program, have a variety of experiences, and my research is neuro focused. How important is research track record for this internship? As you know, for many internship sites, its a big factor, even thoiugh its a clinical internship.

I think that it's not as important as it is at some sights, but expect it to be competitive. It really depends on the particular cohort. Navy will probably become a little less competitive since a 3rd site will be opening for HPSP students and USUHS grads. This will open a few more San Diego and Bethesda slots (maybe 2-4 overall).

3. Wife is only supportive of this if we do NOT go overseas. How much can this be reassured?

That is NOT guaranteed and more than likely if things stay as they are, you WILL be deployed for a period of 6 months... it could be to Gitmo, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq, or even Afghanistan. I would bet my last dollar on serving at least one 6 month deployment in a 4 year tour, but more than likely after you have been licensed (so not likely in the first 2 years of service.)

4. I noticed that last year 22 people applied and they interviewed those 22. They took 6 of those. Seems remarkably less competitive (numbers wise) than many other internship placements, even many of the non APA accredited ones. Is this simply do to the fact that its the military and thus, alot of people just dismiss it? Any idea what made those 6 "fit" (ie., match) well with the internship program? Does one need anything diferent or special in their vita (or personality) to match in the Navy program vs what it takes to match in other civilian internship slots?

I think the difference is a real desire to serve in the military. At Bethesda, 1 of those 6 was a USUHS student. I know the year group before that one very well, overall it was a very good bunch... Grads from Denver's Psy.D., USUHS, Auburn, etc. I wouldn't sell the pool you are competing with too short, it may be less competitive since many people self select out, but think about those who would self select in. Typically, they are motivated people who have excellent credentials and graduated from a fairly good APA program. As you suspect and T4C noted, it's a self selecting sample. Many people simply will not consider the Military a tenable choice for a wide range of reasons.

Having experience in subject area's of particular interest to the military will certainly give you a leg up. For example, those with specific skills in mTBI, PTSD, and other military relevant treatment area's are going to be stronger candidates than people who do not have these areas of interest. I would also suspect that child focused therapists would be at a distinct disadvantage as well. It's about fit. Those who are good military fits are more likely to get the call.

Mark

 

[erg923]

great and thanks again!!!

One last one. This is embarrassing frankly, and shows how much I know, but if/when one is deployed overseas such as gitmo, Iraq, etc, what is the living situation like? I assume its on a base? Would I have my own apartment, house, or are you sharing space or otherwise living transiently?

Oh, and the 4 year comittment includes ther intersnhip? So you owe 3 years after the internship year?

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

great and thanks again!!!

One last one. This is embarrassing frankly, and shows how much I know, but if/when one is deployed overseas such as gitmo, Iraq, etc, what is the living situation like? I assume its on a base? Would I have my own apartment, house, or are you sharing space or otherwise living transiently?

Oh, and the 4 year comittment includes ther intersnhip? So you owe 3 years after the internship year?

One of these days we are going to have to explain once and for all the difference between "deployed" and "stationed." Deployed is going to war, (no family, no car, no dog--it is not "home") and the living situation is different for everyone depending on what's available. Stationed is when you move to a new place of duty (we have bases all over the world--family usually goes with you, see your kids every day, mow your lawn) and you live there until your next move. Living conditions while "in garrison" or where you are "stationed" are usually in a house/apartment on post or you take BAH (non-taxed housing allowance) and find a place off post.

For example, you mentioned Guantanamo Bay and Iraq. Gitmo is a Navy/Marine base, (you get staioned there--also I don't think there is an "off post there. Off post is in Cuba) and Iraq is a theater of operations or "war zone." VERY different situations.

 

[deleted176373]

As was stated above, there are a number of ways to be assigned to a duty station.

1. CONUS PCS - This is a US permanent change of station within the US. Normally these are called "accompanied" tours. Which means your family and you are moved at government expense (yes, the Govt will come and box everything up and move you if you want with no cost to you.) Typically a 3 year tour.

2. OCONUS PCS - This is an overseas tour, both accompanied and unaccompanied tours exist. Unaccompanied means your family doesn't move but you do, typically 12-24 month tours depending on location, unusual for first timers to even be eligible for such a tour. You are provided quarters at the duty location and paid a family separation allowance for the duration of the tour. All costs associated with official travel to and from the duty location are paid by the government. Accompanied tours are just like CONUS PCS's except you are moving to a new country, typically for 3 years.

3. Deployment - (AKA TDY) Always unaccompanied, "short term" stationing of 180 days or less... this has changed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Navy sticks closely to the 180 day number for the most part, but the Army is doing tours of 16 months, alternatively the USAF ships people out for 3-4 months usually. If you want to not deploy as often or long... apply to the USAF internship. Downside to the USAF, so really bad locations like Edwards AFB, CA; Barkdale, LA; New Mexico, etc. The Navy nearly guarantees that you'll be near a beach somewhere.

Mark

PS - I've heard that Gitmo actually isn't too bad if you like scuba diving.

 

[erg923]

As was stated above, there are a number of ways to be assigned to a duty station.
3. Deployment - (AKA TDY) Always unaccompanied, "short term" stationing of 180 days or less... this has changed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Navy sticks closely to the 180 day number for the most part, but the Army is doing tours of 16 months, alternatively the USAF ships people out for 3-4 months usually. If you want to not deploy as often or long... apply to the USAF internship. Downside to the USAF, so really bad locations like Edwards AFB, CA; Barkdale, LA; New Mexico, etc. The Navy nearly guarantees that you'll be near a beach somewhere.

Ok cool. And this is the one you were refering to in your post before this that is most likley to happen, right?. This is no prob and and exciting actually. My wife was worried about the middle one (OCONUS PCS), where we would be stationed out of country for a couple years or more.

 

[deleted176373]

Ok cool. And this is the one you were refering to in your post before this that is most likley to happen, right?. This is no prob and and exciting actually. My wife was worried about the middle one (OCONUS PCS), where we would be stationed out of country for a couple years or more.

Yes, this is almost guaranteed (even with Gitmo shutdown and with complete pull outs in Afghanistan and Iraq, which could happen by the time you are licensed.) They will find somewhere to send you for a few months... it could be Kuwait, Germany, Korea, who knows... but part of the job is deploying.

Now there is a pretty low chance that you would be stationed overseas but it is possible. Navy usually likes to keep you in the states for your first tour, but that doesn't mean that you can't get an overseas gig. Like I said, you'll be given a number of choices (around 10 or so) and asked to rank them. Like I said, it seemed like people got their #1 or #2 choice for the most part, I do know one person who got their number 3 choice, but that was Pensacola, FL. Not exactly "hard time."

I am curious as to why she is worried about an overseas tour? Usually the bases are pretty good about making sure that opportunities to make an overseas tour enjoyable are available. Some people are nervous about not knowing the language overseas or other factors... That is usually less of an issue that you might think. Still if going overseas is her concern, it's valid. If you stay in longer, your chances rise to get stationed overseas.

Mark

 

[PrisonPsych]

I am curious as to why she is worried about an overseas tour? Usually the bases are pretty good about making sure that opportunities to make an overseas tour enjoyable are available. Some people are nervous about not knowing the language overseas or other factors... That is usually less of an issue that you might think. Still if going overseas is her concern, it's valid. If you stay in longer, your chances rise to get stationed overseas.

Mark

As a former dependent spouse, my concern was my ability to get a job. AFS literally laughed at me when I approached them for job placement assistance - if I wanted to do anything other than food service or secretary work, I was SOL. They have no idea how to handle professional spouses, and it's hard to get those kind of jobs overseas unless you speak the local language (and even then, there are hiring barriers for foreigners).

 

[deleted176373]

As a former dependent spouse, my concern was my ability to get a job. AFS literally laughed at me when I approached them for job placement assistance - if I wanted to do anything other than food service or secretary work, I was SOL. They have no idea how to handle professional spouses, and it's hard to get those kind of jobs overseas unless you speak the local language (and even then, there are hiring barriers for foreigners).

You're right about professional spouses. That's often a very difficult prospect unless you are doing food service, secretarial work, or teaching. Sometimes health care is also an option, otherwise, yep counting on AFS is a joke for professional spouses. Other options do exist, but I concede that you do have a great point about overseas postings and spouses. I face that same problem with my wife's career. She is going to Georgetown for Law right now and will likely need to stay stateside if I get stationed overseas. That's the risk we sometimes run... You have to decide what is right for you. Considering that I could carry 3 months of vacation into an assignment, I can make it pretty tolerable. Over a 3 year over seas tour, I would be able to take 180 days of vacation (or 6 months) or roughly 1 month every six months, not perfect, but takes the sting out of the separation a little.

Mark

 

[PrisonPsych]

You're right about professional spouses. That's often a very difficult prospect unless you are doing food service, secretarial work, or teaching. Sometimes health care is also an option, otherwise, yep counting on AFS is a joke for professional spouses. Other options do exist, but I concede that you do have a great point about overseas postings and spouses. I face that same problem with my wife's career. She is going to Georgetown for Law right now and will likely need to stay stateside if I get stationed overseas. That's the risk we sometimes run... You have to decide what is right for you. Considering that I could carry 3 months of vacation into an assignment, I can make it pretty tolerable. Over a 3 year over seas tour, I would be able to take 180 days of vacation (or 6 months) or roughly 1 month every six months, not perfect, but takes the sting out of the separation a little.

Mark

Yup, that's one of the reasons I stayed stateside rather than accompanying when my ex-husband went to Japan.

 

[deleted176373]

Yup, that's one of the reasons I stayed stateside rather than accompanying when my ex-husband went to Japan.

For some reason, the words "ex-husband" and "stationed in Japan" seem to be in the same sentence with surprising frequency.

Mark

 

[PrisonPsych]

For some reason, the words "ex-husband" and "stationed in Japan" seem to be in the same sentence with surprising frequency.

Mark

Heh. He's not a bad guy, and we get along fine. He joined the Army later in life (we had been together about 4 years at that point) and got WAY more conservative afterwards, and we just kind of drifted apart. Japan had nothing to do with it lol.

 

[erg923]

I am curious as to why she is worried about an overseas tour? Usually the bases are pretty good about making sure that opportunities to make an overseas tour enjoyable are available. Some people are nervous about not knowing the language overseas or other factors... That is usually less of an issue that you might think. Still if going overseas is her concern, it's valid. If you stay in longer, your chances rise to get stationed overseas.
Mark

Combination of things, but mostly it because she has a professional job. Also, we want to start a family soom, and guess she only wants to have them here in the States and be near our families. She also mentioned language issues as well.

 

[deleted176373]

Combination of things, but mostly it because she has a professional job. Also, we want to start a family soom, and guess she only wants to have them here in the States and be near our families. She also mentioned language issues as well.

Well, you can always resign your commission should you decide that they are going to PCS you to a location that you don't like, provided you don't owe them time. Post-doc's and schooling tend to obligate you to additional time, usually 1 for 1, so every year of training obligates you to a year of service. Other than that, you can resign your commission at any time past the four year point.

So it could work out for you, and depending on your flexibility you might find out that you can avoid an overseas posting by taking something different stateside. For example, I know people that have stayed state side for nearly their entire careers and in the North East just by being clever and really working the system. It's possible, mostly because there are enough psychologists who would want to be stationed overseas.

Really think about it. Personally, I love what I do and each day confirms for me that I made the right choice for me. You have to be able to wake up each day and know you made the right choice for you. Sometimes, like basic, it's not particularly fun... necessary, but not fun. Other times (even in basic) it was a blast, like saving the USS Buttercup (a sinking ship simulator.)

Best of luck with your decision, PM me if you want to ever talk on the phone about it. I would be happy to share more about what I know.

Mark

 

[erg923]

/

 

[erg923]

Just looked at the navy internship data and stats. Couple years ago the highest face to face hours was 2950! My question is: How in the world does someone accumulate 2950 intervention and assessment hours!? Were they in their program for like 10 years!?

 

[deleted176373]

Just looked at the navy internship data and stats. Couple years ago the highest face to face hours was 2950! My question is: How in the world does someone accumulate 2950 intervention and assessment hours!? Were they in their program for like 10 years!?

Where did you get the stats?

Mark

 

[erg923]

fromm the APPIC websites profile of thr program

 

[deleted176373]

fromm the APPIC websites profile of thr program

That might have been because of one individual who had some issues with their degree, I believe that person spent 2 years at the internship while the issue was resolved. This is a guess, I just know of one situation that would explain the statistic for one person. As full time work would be 2000 hours not counting any down time, time spent doing other tasks, etc.

 

[erg923]

no no..my bad. I meant by the time they applied for the intership. it said highest number of face to face hours at time of application was 2950. This was a couple years ago.....2007-2008. see this link:
http://www.appic.org/directory/program_cache/270.html

How the hell would someone accumulate that many face to face hours in a doctoral program?

 

[deleted176373]

no no..my bad. I meant by the time they applied for the intership. it said highest number of face to face hours at time of application was 2950. This was a couple years ago.....2007-2008. see this link:
http://www.appic.org/directory/program_cache/270.html

How the hell would someone accumulate that many face to face hours in a doctoral program?

We have people who are coming from Psy.D. programs who get massive amounts of hours. The Ph.D. students get fewer hours on average than the Psy.D. folks. I do know that the average is far more representative. I do know that if they count other programs they could have a great number of hours. One girl came into our program with over 1000 hours from a masters program, and she'll be adding at least another 600 hours in our program. How you hit 2900 hours. I don't know.

Mark

 

[erg923]

thanks for the info Mark.

Im not buyin the 2950 face to face hours though. The title says " APPI Doctoral Intervention/Assessment Hours," which makes me think that they are not counting masters program hours. However, even if one had 1000 face to face hours from a masters program (which is tons for a masters program), you would still need to get almost 2000 more face to face hours in a doctoral program to reach 2950. The total amount of hours I have wouldn't even come close the that figure, much less my face to face hours. I will have around 800 face to face hours and from what i see..thats well within the mean.

 

[deleted176373]

thanks for the info Mark.

Im not buyin the 2950 face to face hours though. The title says " APPI Doctoral Intervention/Assessment Hours," which makes me think that they are not counting masters program hours. However, even if one had 1000 face to face hours from a masters program (which is tons for a masters program), you would still need to get almost 2000 more face to face hours in a doctoral program to reach 2950. The total amount of hours I have wouldn't even come close the that figure, much less my face to face hours. I will have around 800 face to face hours and from what i see..thats well within the mean.

You should be fine with that.

Mark

 

[Shatani]

wow, this thread is really informative! ive been seriously considering doing the navy program. i will be finished with school and internships in december, but it will likely be a year before i get my license (i figured i would do my hours at the place i currently work).

mark, when do you suggest that one starts the process of becoming a navy psychologist? also, will there be any kind of training or bootcamp involved that i would need to get in shape for? (i apologized if this has already been answered, i havent finished reading the thread yet)

 

[deleted176373]

wow, this thread is really informative! ive been seriously considering doing the navy program. i will be finished with school and internships in december, but it will likely be a year before i get my license (i figured i would do my hours at the place i currently work).

mark, when do you suggest that one starts the process of becoming a navy psychologist? also, will there be any kind of training or bootcamp involved that i would need to get in shape for? (i apologized if this has already been answered, i havent finished reading the thread yet)

I would start the process before you actually test by contacting a medical recruiter (different than a regular recruiter) and discussing the direct accession program with them, you may also wish to contact the specialty leader for psychology as well. (Currently CDR John Ralph).

Yes, there is a boot camp, but it's less rigorous than any "boot camp" that I have been too previously. It is a 5 week training program that is there to give you a basic understanding of military culture, discipline, training, and history. It's pretty damn lax. We were allowed to go drinking on post our second weekend, and off post our third weekend. You will need to be in a shape other than round, there are fitness standards that are not too difficult to meet. Being in better shape certainly pays off and will allow you to avoid getting yelled at as much as the people at the back of the pack.

As far as training, provided you already make the height and weight / body fat requirements. I believe 6 light weeks of moderate exercise would be sufficient to get to where you need to be.

Mark

 

[lookitssara]

This post has been so informative - even to someone who isn't considering going into a service for any part of her career!

 

[Shatani]

no no..my bad. I meant by the time they applied for the intership. it said highest number of face to face hours at time of application was 2950. This was a couple years ago.....2007-2008. see this link:
http://www.appic.org/directory/program_cache/270.html

How the hell would someone accumulate that many face to face hours in a doctoral program?

We have people who are coming from Psy.D. programs who get massive amounts of hours. The Ph.D. students get fewer hours on average than the Psy.D. folks. I do know that the average is far more representative. I do know that if they count other programs they could have a great number of hours. One girl came into our program with over 1000 hours from a masters program, and she'll be adding at least another 600 hours in our program. How you hit 2900 hours. I don't know.

Mark

i could see myself having that many...ive been seeing clients since my first year of my 5 year doctoral program (psyD). i have over 2000 internship hours alone.

 

[Shatani]

I would start the process before you actually test by contacting a medical recruiter (different than a regular recruiter) and discussing the direct accession program with them, you may also wish to contact the specialty leader for psychology as well. (Currently CDR John Ralph).

Yes, there is a boot camp, but it's less rigorous than any "boot camp" that I have been too previously. It is a 5 week training program that is there to give you a basic understanding of military culture, discipline, training, and history. It's pretty damn lax. We were allowed to go drinking on post our second weekend, and off post our third weekend. You will need to be in a shape other than round, there are fitness standards that are not too difficult to meet. Being in better shape certainly pays off and will allow you to avoid getting yelled at as much as the people at the back of the pack.

As far as training, provided you already make the height and weight / body fat requirements. I believe 6 light weeks of moderate exercise would be sufficient to get to where you need to be.

Mark

i was actually looking at the site last night and saw that there is a new post doctoral program, which will give me the hours i need for licensure. did i read that correctly?

if there is a height/weight requirement for that program, i will certainly NOT qualify. maybe i should take the year and get myself into shape (other than round!) and aim for the accession program with my license in hand.

also, would i have to take the ASVAB? i took it in higschool but never enlisted...actually, at the time i really didnt know what it was about. is that the test you referred to, or is it something else?

 

[deleted176373]

i was actually looking at the site last night and saw that there is a new post doctoral program, which will give me the hours i need for licensure. did i read that correctly?

if there is a height/weight requirement for that program, i will certainly NOT qualify. maybe i should take the year and get myself into shape (other than round!) and aim for the accession program with my license in hand.

also, would i have to take the ASVAB? i took it in higschool but never enlisted...actually, at the time i really didnt know what it was about. is that the test you referred to, or is it something else?

You will not have to take the ASVAB... I was referring to the EPPP. You may be correct about the new post-doc program, you will have to contact them for specifics. I believe that they will be kicking that off in Virginia Beach, VA (Norfolk, VA). Not a bad place to spend a year or two.

There is a height/weight/bodyfat requirement... You can exceed the height/weight requirement provided your bodyfat is within the requirements. For instance my "max weight" at 5'10" is 186 lbs, but I weigh in at 210 or so. My bodyfat is under the magic 22% as determined by measuring around your neck and waist, it's not very scientific in my opinion. Provided you pass that requirement, you then are off to the fitness test. Run 1.5 miles in the allotted time and do the minimum number or more of required push-ups and sit-ups. Pretty basic all in all.

Mark

 

[erg923]

Im glad this thread generated such great information for everyone. Markp has been very helpful and informative. I will likley be applying for this internship program next year, and as of right now, no one else on this board is allowed to apply until after im already in. I dont want too much competition you know. Cool? Yea......? OK good, glad we got that all staighted out....

So Mark, what do you know about the Air Force internship. Seems really good and offers alot of npsych at Andrews. Although, locations seem a little..well you know....not great? Are you aware of any signficant differences between the navys internship and the Air Force's?

 

[asoud14]

Hello...I am planning to apply for the Army HPSP in psychology next year (2010-11) and I want to try and increase my chances as much as possible to get chosen for one. I have a B.S. in psychology and an M.Ed. in psychology (I know the Army only requires a B.S).

When I mean increase my chances, I would like to know what would be something that I could go about doing in the next year for this to happen. I have looked into volunteering at the VA, but it looks like there are so many people that have signed up to be volunteers that they are not placing anyone. I am also in the process of communicating with other higher ranking Officers in the Army hoping this could in some case help. Any other suggestions?

Also, anyone know the stats of how many apply for the psych HPSP a year and how many are accepted?

Thanks so much!

 

[Shatani]

Im glad this thread generated such great information for everyone. Markp has been very helpful and informative. I will likley be applying for this internship program next year, and as of right now, no one else on this board is allowed to apply until after im already in. I dont want too much competition you know. Cool? Yea......? OK good, glad we got that all staighted out....

So Mark, what do you know about the Air Force internship. Seems really good and offers alot of npsych at Andrews. Although, locations seem a little..well you know....not great? Are you aware of any signficant differences between the navys internship and the Air Force's?

well, im past the internship phase and woefully out of shape, so thats all you buddy! lol

 

[KillerDiller]

i could see myself having that many...ive been seeing clients since my first year of my 5 year doctoral program (psyD). i have over 2000 internship hours alone.

Sorry, I get very confused when I hear numbers thrown around and I just need some clarification. So, in your case, the 2000 refers to hours accrued on internship, right? I believe Erg was originally concerned about the person who claimed to have over 2900 hours before even applying to internship (let alone that year between applying and starting).

Also, maybe I'm figuring my hours incorrectly, but isn't it only clinical contact hours that are counted in this figure? I don't understand how you could have 2000 clinical contact hours over the course of a one-year internship. 40 x 52 = 2080, but that would mean seeing clients non-stop, full-time every day and every week. What about supervision, progress note writing, team meetings, etc? Are there really internships that expect you to carry a caseload of 40 face to face hours each week?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Also, maybe I'm figuring my hours incorrectly, but isn't it only clinical contact hours that are counted in this figure? I don't understand how you could have 2000 clinical contact hours over the course of a one-year internship. 40 x 52 = 2080, but that would mean seeing clients non-stop, full-time every day and every week. What about supervision, progress note writing, team meetings, etc? Are there really internships that expect you to carry a caseload of 40 face to face hours each week?

All of the hours you have on site count, though there are usually a specific # of supervision and face to face hours required by the site/APA/APPIC. The licensing board may have their own requirements, but generally they are the same.

As for face to face hours....I've heard some clinically-heavy sites have 25+ hr requirements.

 

[Shatani]

Sorry, I get very confused when I hear numbers thrown around and I just need some clarification. So, in your case, the 2000 refers to hours accrued on internship, right? I believe Erg was originally concerned about the person who claimed to have over 2900 hours before even applying to internship (let alone that year between applying and starting).

Also, maybe I'm figuring my hours incorrectly, but isn't it only clinical contact hours that are counted in this figure? I don't understand how you could have 2000 clinical contact hours over the course of a one-year internship. 40 x 52 = 2080, but that would mean seeing clients non-stop, full-time every day and every week. What about supervision, progress note writing, team meetings, etc? Are there really internships that expect you to carry a caseload of 40 face to face hours each week?

well, my program is a bit different and we actually do everything all at once. we are taking classes and writing dissertations and doing internships at the same time. we actually do two internship years and depending on the time it runs (most run 12 months, but college counseling and schools in general run about 9 months) at 24 hours per week, it can stack up. if one does like i did and has one 9 month and one 12 month, that will leave us with approximately 2100 internship hours....if you do two 12 month rotations, you could have 2400 in just internship hours. we do practicums starting our first year and we work 16 hours per week for a 9 month rotation. so if you add those hours to the internship hours, you could have quite a few going in....

 

[KillerDiller]

All of the hours you have on site count, though there are usually a specific # of supervision and face to face hours required by the site/APA/APPIC. The licensing board may have their own requirements, but generally they are the same.

As for face to face hours....I've heard some clinically-heavy sites have 25+ hr requirements.

I'm very sorry to derail the thread, but am just so confused. I definitely track all my hours spent on site, but it was my impression that that number was not very important when it came for licensure/ internship/post-doc placements etc, and that "clinical hours" were what counted. Is it that when you transition into internship, you no longer worry about intervention/assessment hours but start focusing on on-site hours?

Of course, when you apply for internship, APPIC lists the minimum, average, and maximum number of hours for intervention/assessment from all of their applicants from the previous year. I was thus under the impression, then, that nobody really talked in the language of total on-site hours and the "contact" hours were the numbers people tended to throw around.

I think it's important to have some sort of shared definition and language when we talk about...well, one of the top concerns of people applying to the armed forces internships. If some people are saying 2900, and others are saying 520, but they have the same amount of experience, then that's going to create problems.

 

[KillerDiller]

well, my program is a bit different and we actually do everything all at once. we are taking classes and writing dissertations and doing internships at the same time. we actually do two internship years and depending on the time it runs (most run 12 months, but college counseling and schools in general run about 9 months) at 24 hours per week, it can stack up. if one does like i did and has one 9 month and one 12 month, that will leave us with approximately 2100 internship hours....if you do two 12 month rotations, you could have 2400 in just internship hours. we do practicums starting our first year and we work 16 hours per week for a 9 month rotation. so if you add those hours to the internship hours, you could have quite a few going in....

But you're still talking about on-site hours and not hours spent in face-to-face time with clients, right? Again, 20 x 40 (for the 9 month practicum) and 20 x 52 (for the 12 month one) adds up to approximately 2000 total hours, but then you're contact hours would be lower because you're not seeing clients for assessment or therapy every hour you're on site.

Our set-up is actually similar, only we don't go on internship during our program, but we do practicums while taking classes, doing research, etc.--one is about 16 hrs./wk and then students do one to two others before applying to internship which run about 20-24 hrs. wk.

Anyway, I guess my main question is what should I be counting for my internship applications? It seems like people are totaling two very different things.

 

[deleted176373]

But you're still talking about on-site hours and not hours spent in face-to-face time with clients, right? Again, 20 x 40 (for the 9 month practicum) and 20 x 52 (for the 12 month one) adds up to approximately 2000 total hours, but then you're contact hours would be lower because you're not seeing clients for assessment or therapy every hour you're on site.

Our set-up is actually similar, only we don't go on internship during our program, but we do practicums while taking classes, doing research, etc.--one is about 16 hrs./wk and then students do one to two others before applying to internship which run about 20-24 hrs. wk.

Anyway, I guess my main question is what should I be counting for my internship applications? It seems like people are totaling two very different things.

We're talking face to face contact hours, not practicum hours.

Mark

 

[erg923]

Markp,
When does one qualify for the Navy's loan repayment program. After you become licensed? or do they require that you extend your initial 4 year commitment in order to quailify? In other, words, if I serve my 4 years and then leave, will they not repay loans?

 

[deleted176373]

Markp,
When does one qualify for the Navy's loan repayment program. After you become licensed? or do they require that you extend your initial 4 year commitment in order to quailify? In other, words, if I serve my 4 years and then leave, will they not repay loans?

You know, I don't have the answer on that. I believe, IIRC, that you can apply for LRP after licensure. I don't believe that the initial 4 year commitment factors into that. It does prevent you from getting the other bonus for committing to an additional 4 years. For example, those who don't have commitments will be offered $20/yr over 4 years to stay. So when you finish you're 4 year stint, in additional to the base pay, the specialty pay, and the board certified pay, you'll be offered $20k per year on top of that to stay for 4 more years. LRP is a different program and may be affected by these programs, but you should check, because there may be a conflict. I would suggest talking to Commander Ralph, he would be in a better position to answer your specific question.

That said, there is always the fact that your loans can be forgiven through the standard government program where you only have to make minimum payments for 10 years and the rest is forgiven if you are working in the public sector (which counts the military.)

I know you are thinking that you want to do a 4 year stint and that's it. It's a tough call.

Mark

 

[Shatani]

You know, I don't have the answer on that. I believe, IIRC, that you can apply for LRP after licensure. I don't believe that the initial 4 year commitment factors into that. It does prevent you from getting the other bonus for committing to an additional 4 years. For example, those who don't have commitments will be offered $20/yr over 4 years to stay. So when you finish you're 4 year stint, in additional to the base pay, the specialty pay, and the board certified pay, you'll be offered $20k per year on top of that to stay for 4 more years. LRP is a different program and may be affected by these programs, but you should check, because there may be a conflict. I would suggest talking to Commander Ralph, he would be in a better position to answer your specific question.

That said, there is always the fact that your loans can be forgiven through the standard government program where you only have to make minimum payments for 10 years and the rest is forgiven if you are working in the public sector (which counts the military.)

I know you are thinking that you want to do a 4 year stint and that's it. It's a tough call.

Mark

oooh, thats a new development!! i didnt realize the military counts for that...i thought i would have to wade through 4 copies of the same paperwork mountains in community mental health for that to take effect....

 

[deleted176373]

oooh, thats a new development!! i didnt realize the military counts for that...i thought i would have to wade through 4 copies of the same paperwork mountains in community mental health for that to take effect....

Don't rely on my interpretation... I "believe" that it counts as public sector (and don't know why it wouldn't.)

Mark

 

[Kyle3309]

thanks for the info Mark.

Im not buyin the 2950 face to face hours though.

The baylor psyd program indicates that you get about 3,000 hours.
http://www.baylor.edu/psychologyneuroscience/index.php?id=21875

 

[KillerDiller]

The baylor psyd program indicates that you get about 3,000 hours.
http://www.baylor.edu/psychologyneuroscience/index.php?id=21875

This is exactly why it is so important to establish what everyone means when they are comparing hours. I don't see any possible way students could be accumulating 3000 face-to-face hours before internship.

 

[erg923]

This is exactly why it is so important to establish what everyone means when they are comparing hours. I don't see any possible way students could be accumulating 3000 face-to-face hours before internship.

The website is referring to total hours. not face to face, big difference. If ione has 3000 hours, then i would guess about 1500 or so of those are face to face hours. Thats still alot though.