Quick Question on Timing (Postbac/MCAT/Applications)

[AnotherJD]

I want to take my MCATS sometime in the early part of spring so that I'd have everything ready to go (application wise) by June since I've heard that taking the MCAT in June and applying in August might be a bit late in the game.

I was wondering if you think it'd be a good idea to take the MCAT spring 2012 which means that at that time I'd only have 3 science courses under my belt or to take it spring 2013 when I am officially done with my postbac program? Taking it in spring 2012 would save me a lag year since I would still be finishing up my postbac program (taking 1 class) while applying for school. Taking it in spring 2013 would be less hectic but I'd hate to have a whole year with nothing to do. I don't want to rush things for the sake of hurrying things along but if it's feasible I'd much rather take the MCAT sooner or later.

I'm asking this really early on because this would affect how I would register for classes. Do you think I'd do horribly if I took the MCAT early since I'd only have 3 science classes under my belt then?

Thanks for your replies in advance!

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[DrMidlife]

Some suggestions.

1. Take a practice MCAT, for free, now. Your verbal score is not likely to budge without multiple years of effort to improve it. Verbal also is an indicator of how well you'll do on the sciences once you've learned the content. So, if you get an 8 or less on a practice verbal, that imho is a sign that you'll need to put a lot of work into the MCAT, and you need to not cut corners. If you get a 10+, well, maybe you can cut some corners. www.e-mcat.com

2. Take the MCAT once, and only once. Retakes are as likely to go down as they are to go up. Re-studying for a retake is horribly inefficient not to mention demoralizing.

3. The second half of organic chemistry is the only content that's reasonably safe to postpone. All the other content (bio/chem/phys/ochemI) is fair game on the MCAT. Everybody will have a different opinion on which subjects are most important - they're all important.

4. Preparing for the test includes content review, but it's mostly preparing for the test. If you will have the time & money to take a prep course such as Kaplan or whatnot, and if you can work it hard, then that could argue for an earlier test date.

Best of luck to you.

 

[AnotherJD]

Thanks for the info (and the link)! In that case, I might try to take some summer classes so all I have left is Orgo II.

 

[squat]

I'm in a similar situation. I was planning on doing Chem 2 & Physics 1 during Spring, then taking Phy 2 and OChem 1 in the summer, finishing 2 weeks before taking the MCAT. The schools that I looked at all said they accept Sept MCAT scores, so that means I'd be submitting my application w/o knowing my scores.

@Midlife, it sounds like you would discourage this plan. (?) My reasoning is 1) I'll be 37 when I apply--clock's ticking-- and 2) if I don't get in on the first go-round, I will be able to spend that extra year taking Biochem, genetics, etc, with the advantage of getting feedback from an adcom as to where I need to improve.

I feel like the part of me that hesitates to apply next year is the same sick part of me that thinks everything MUST be perfect. Though needing to reapply may be demoralizing, I'll know that I had room to grow...so then I'll grow. Plus, hey, I might actually get in on my first attempt.

 

[AnotherJD]

@Squat

Expressing my sentiments exactly. While I am enjoying my postbac program (awkward grin) I also want to "get started" already since I'm only getting older. That said, I don't want to jeopardize my grades and have to do wait another year or two instead of getting it right the first time.

Another thought I was thinking is that maybe in that "extra" lag year you could take other courses like A&P and/or Biochem which I've heard several people mention on this board is super helpful.

I'd feel better knowing if I can (or can't) take 2 science courses and study for the MCATS at the same time. Hard to tell given someone like me who has no science background. For me I'm aiming for the slow route (an extra year) but will try to study for the MCATS during my 2nd year to see how I do. If I do well on the practice tests consistently then I'll take the real thing. If not then no loss since it won't be officially on my transcript anyways.

Another thought to consider - not sure about you but applies for me - if you don't have a science background might be good to get that extra year of shadowing/clinical exposure that is more important for us than for nontrad students.

 

[DrMidlife]

Conventional wisdom: apply early and broadly, with the best possible app package you can put together.

Not wise: applying just under the deadline without knowing your MCAT score yet.

Do people get accepted by applying at the last minute? Sure, sometimes. You can gamble on being one of those anecdotes. I wouldn't do it, because odds are it'll end up being unsuccessful, thus demoralizing and very, very expensive.

Best of luck to you.

 

[squat]

Do people get accepted by applying at the last minute? Sure, sometimes. You can gamble on being one of those anecdotes. I wouldn't do it, because odds are it'll end up being unsuccessful, thus demoralizing and very, very expensive.

Best of luck to you.

I guess I see another year of NOT starting med school as also very, very expensive. It translates into one more year before I begin practicing.

I've read many people share their posts about applying in August. Is it that uncommon for Aug applicants to get in? Do adcoms consider reapplicants "lessers" or do they look to see how the application has improved? I figure that if I don't get in and they are looking for improvement, they will see it because I will be able to reapply earlier in the cycle and take more advanced bio courses.

What am I not seeing? Aside from money, what am I really risking by applying in 2011 instead of 2012?

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Econ2MD]

At 33 I too felt the pressure to "speed up" the process however possible. At every turn, though, I always came to the same conclusion...wait and apply prepared.

Believe me, you will feel rushed enough as it is with prerequisites, MCAT prep, crafting a good personal statement, gaining clinical and volunteer experiences, etc.

 

[SFO-IST]

I was in a similar situation while taking my post-bac. I spoke to a highly respected professor of mine that had experience with med school admissions and he told me to wait before applying. Best advice ever. That extra year allowed me to get local and international clinical experience that made my application truly unique. I now have acceptances from most schools I applied to. best of luck everyone!

 

[Lefty Doodle]

I'm going through a similar dilemma and am also leaning towards waiting to apply. I finish school in mid-April so technically probably have time to study for and take the MCAT by June and everything, but haven't done any meaningful volunteering in years and have just been focusing on getting into a post-bac (I'm doing informal and it's been a logistical nightmare but well worth the savings) and figuring out these courses ever since I decided to do this. One of my dad's friends used to be a med school admissions officer and he cautioned me to never overload on courses, to worry about volunteering and the MCAT only if I felt like I had all of my coursework under control, and to only take the MCAT once (read: take it when I'm ready). I also think that applying with a better app gives us opportunities to get into better schools and/or get scholarships. It never hurts to have a better app and you will be living with the consequences of where you go for the rest of your career (reputation wise and money wise).

SFO-IST what was your international experience?? I lived in Russia for 4 years and am dying to find another job there in public health for my gap year(s) but it probably won't be possible because of foreign donors withdrawing from Russia. I'm curious about what other people have done abroad because I'd be open to going somewhere else too.

 

[MCAT guy]

Some suggestions.

1. Take a practice MCAT, for free, now. Your verbal score is not likely to budge without multiple years of effort to improve it.

Everyone is different. There are no rules.

 

[MCAT guy]

Conventional wisdom: apply early and broadly, with the best possible app package you can put together.

Not wise: applying just under the deadline without knowing your MCAT score yet.

Do people get accepted by applying at the last minute? Sure, sometimes. You can gamble on being one of those anecdotes. I wouldn't do it, because odds are it'll end up being unsuccessful, thus demoralizing and very, very expensive.

Best of luck to you.

This is good advice for the most part. Although I would say, everyone is different. I've had 7 MD interview invites, took the July MCAT this year. App completed late August / early September. My MCAT date made it a gamble (My primary apps had all gone out before I knew my score, to the tune of around $800). I would say this, guess what, this process of becoming a physician is going to have many high pressure situations where you have to deliver, so if you don't perform now you may not later.

Applying early is best though, no doubt.

 

[MCAT guy]

I guess I see another year of NOT starting med school as also very, very expensive. It translates into one more year before I begin practicing.

I've read many people share their posts about applying in August. Is it that uncommon for Aug applicants to get in? Do adcoms consider reapplicants "lessers" or do they look to see how the application has improved? I figure that if I don't get in and they are looking for improvement, they will see it because I will be able to reapply earlier in the cycle and take more advanced bio courses.

What am I not seeing? Aside from money, what am I really risking by applying in 2011 instead of 2012?

Thanks for your feedback!

I'm in the "apply prepared" group, for sure. Yet, applying in August isn't a deal breaker. The problem is that you will be competing against a larger pool if you apply in Aug-Oct. Which means acceptances will be harder to garner. It depends on how well you can stand out from 5,000-10,000 other applications and how good of a story you can tell in essays/PS.

Reapplicants aren't "lessers", they are just "show me what you've done sincers".

You should apply prepared. Clinical experience, solid essays/PS (this is so huge that it can't be understated), GPA/MCAT. Each is a huge piece. How unique can you be? If you are a cookie cutter applicant then I would wait a year and improve, but if you have a quality app there is no reason to postpone.

Think of it as a marathon race. Applying late is like starting the race 10 minutes after everyone else. If you are truly a good runner then you will be a top finisher, BUT if you are about the same as everyone else then you will be very disadvantaged starting 10 minutes behind.

I'm in a similar situation. I was planning on doing Chem 2 & Physics 1 during Spring, then taking Phy 2 and OChem 1 in the summer, finishing 2 weeks before taking the MCAT. The schools that I looked at all said they accept Sept MCAT scores, so that means I'd be submitting my application w/o knowing my scores.

@Midlife, it sounds like you would discourage this plan. (?) My reasoning is 1) I'll be 37 when I apply--clock's ticking-- and 2) if I don't get in on the first go-round, I will be able to spend that extra year taking Biochem, genetics, etc, with the advantage of getting feedback from an adcom as to where I need to improve.

I feel like the part of me that hesitates to apply next year is the same sick part of me that thinks everything MUST be perfect. Though needing to reapply may be demoralizing, I'll know that I had room to grow...so then I'll grow. Plus, hey, I might actually get in on my first attempt.

lol, I replied to your later post but then saw this earlier post.

I would recommend that you take the entire set of pre-reqs before taking the MCAT (even Ochem 2. I had a single Ochem passage on my MCAT, all Ochem 2). Also, are you truly talking about taking a September MCAT? This is extremely late. You would get scores back 30 days later, then have to complete essays and secondaries, then some school take a few weeks to complete you because they are slow, meaning you will complete around Oct-Nov. Not to mention that the secondaries/PS are what will get you invites after you've been deemed academically acceptable by an adcom (in other words, you need to devote some time/energy to them).

I'd either front load those classes in the Spring or plan on applying the next year.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I want to take my MCATS sometime in the early part of spring so that I'd have everything ready to go (application wise) by June since I've heard that taking the MCAT in June and applying in August might be a bit late in the game.

I was wondering if you think it'd be a good idea to take the MCAT spring 2012 which means that at that time I'd only have 3 science courses under my belt or to take it spring 2013 when I am officially done with my postbac program? Taking it in spring 2012 would save me a lag year since I would still be finishing up my postbac program (taking 1 class) while applying for school. Taking it in spring 2013 would be less hectic but I'd hate to have a whole year with nothing to do. I don't want to rush things for the sake of hurrying things along but if it's feasible I'd much rather take the MCAT sooner or later.

I'm asking this really early on because this would affect how I would register for classes. Do you think I'd do horribly if I took the MCAT early since I'd only have 3 science classes under my belt then?

Thanks for your replies in advance!

Getting into some school, anywhere, is the ultimate goal. But after applying several places you will find out that not all schools are created equal. Some places offer lots of patient and doctor contact, quickly. Others have such great podcasting that no one ever goes to lecture. Some are trying new curriculum, so you don't have last year's class notes.

Some places you will succeed better than others, and that will affect the kind of residency that you will get into - which is the ultimate goal.

So, while you might get one or two acceptances by applying late (September is late) you would get more and better acceptances applying early. Also, 4 months more study on the MCAT will raise your score a few points.

If you got a better fit in school and therefore a better residency, and therefore a better salary someday - that one year of waiting isn't going to be that expensive.

 

[AnotherJD]

So glad SDN exists and grateful for everyone's input.

@MCAT Guy: "I would recommend that you take the entire set of pre-reqs before taking the MCAT (even Ochem 2. I had a single Ochem passage on my MCAT, all Ochem"

Interesting that you mention that because my (questionable) premed advisor advised me to take all my classes this and next year so that I would be able to take the MCAT with only Orgo II as the only class I haven't taken yet at that point. I think your feedback makes a big impact on me re-thinking this route.

Also, the premed advisor told me that I should finish as much science courses as I can (with only Orgo II outstanding), study for MCAT during summer break and take the Mcat in August. Now, I'm not an expert at this whole timing thing (hence all my questions) but that seems awfully awfully late in the game. At this point, besides fellow SDNers, I'm not even sure where to get guidance from since I don't really trust the premed adviser's judgment.

 

[squat]

At this point, besides fellow SDNers, I'm not even sure where to get guidance from since I don't really trust the premed adviser's judgment.

Don't you feel as though it is often the blind leading the blind on SDN? No, not always...and clearly I'm coming here for advice, too, but I think it is funny to get advice from people who are still on the same side of the river as me. "What's the best way to cross?" Everyone who is on the bank with me has an opinion, but I want to hear from the folks who are already on the other side--the folks who've made it. From what I've read, there is no one way to do it. ANY of it. For every "this is how it's done" there are a bajillion "that's not how I did it."

The August test thing, for instance is strongly advocated by someone who has a whole thread about studying 3 months in the summer prior to testing, then applying the next year. Yeah, that COULD work for SOME people.

 

[MCAT guy]

So glad SDN exists and grateful for everyone's input.

@MCAT Guy: "I would recommend that you take the entire set of pre-reqs before taking the MCAT (even Ochem 2. I had a single Ochem passage on my MCAT, all Ochem"

Interesting that you mention that because my (questionable) premed advisor advised me to take all my classes this and next year so that I would be able to take the MCAT with only Orgo II as the only class I haven't taken yet at that point. I think your feedback makes a big impact on me re-thinking this route.

Also, the premed advisor told me that I should finish as much science courses as I can (with only Orgo II outstanding), study for MCAT during summer break and take the Mcat in August. Now, I'm not an expert at this whole timing thing (hence all my questions) but that seems awfully awfully late in the game. At this point, besides fellow SDNers, I'm not even sure where to get guidance from since I don't really trust the premed adviser's judgment.

Many people can pick up Orgo II in MCAT studying but I personally would take the class. Most MCATs in the past year have had only 1 or 2 Orgo passages. So the test makers have moved away from heavy orgo BS sections (which would be ~3 orgo passages). The advice wasn't bad, per se, but it is always safest to be fully prepared.

I know timing very well. I would tell you that a Jan-May MCATs are earliest. June MCAT is intermediate. July MCAT is late-intermediate. August-September MCAT is late to super-late (applying SAME year). Remember that you will have 30 days after the date to receive scores, at which point some school will then not release your secondary for a few days to a week, then you will have to complete secondary esssays (sometimes critical in getting interviews, but could be completed during the 30 day scoring period), and THEN some schools adcoms will take 0-4 weeks completing you. That is around 1-2 months after the test day before you complete your app.

The best advice you can get is on SDN, but you have to be careful because a lot of people on here are neurotic pre-meds. Usually if you hear advice repeated it is good, but not always. Try to find people who are rational and measured instead of over-confident/arrogant.

Don't you feel as though it is often the blind leading the blind on SDN? No, not always...and clearly I'm coming here for advice, too, but I think it is funny to get advice from people who are still on the same side of the river as me. "What's the best way to cross?" Everyone who is on the bank with me has an opinion, but I want to hear from the folks who are already on the other side--the folks who've made it. From what I've read, there is no one way to do it. ANY of it. For every "this is how it's done" there are a bajillion "that's not how I did it."

The August test thing, for instance is strongly advocated by someone who has a whole thread about studying 3 months in the summer prior to testing, then applying the next year. Yeah, that COULD work for SOME people.

Oh to be young and ignorant! So far I believe me, Ed, and DrMid have given advice on this thread. All of us know what we are talking about, DrMid is conservative but top-notch. I'm a moderate. Ed's advice quality too.

Don't you feel as though it is often the blind leading the blind on SDN?

Lol @ your comment though. A person who ran an adcom at a school told me, the worst people to ask about medical admissions are medical students, because they have no idea how they got in. The other worst people to talk to were doctors, because they really had no idea how they got in. How did he know this? In his decades of experience, he had tons of students work for him and he had they guess how they got in. Virtually everyone was wrong.

This story only goes so far but take away this, the advice on SDN is typically pretty good. You seem to have star-struck eyes for medical students/docs, it doesn't seem you've met enough or been around enough to know, "they're just like me" (i.e. no different from any successful pre-med).

The reason why there are many different paths to an MD is because there are over 100 different adcoms with different style and it's an ultra competitive pool, with some schools interviewing ~5% of their applicant pool and accepting ~2% out of 5-10,000 applicants.

Studying for 3 months and taking the August MCAT is often best, I wish I had the time to do it but I didn't.

By the way, here is a life lesson: Get advice from as many people as possible, weigh it, then make your own decision. Your comment about the "blind leading the blind" hints that you want someone to be your leader instead of taking responsibility for your choices.

 

[Lefty Doodle]

I have to agree with Dr. Midlife about the MCAT practice test.

I think the when to take the MCAT thing also depends on the individual. There is no question about it that you should do it once your prereqs are done, but I know people who took it either before their finals or just after and thought that was the way to go because all of the info was still in their head for their finals. I couldn't believe this advice to forgo 1-2 months of focused studying but I just took the AAMC FL #3 and scored a 29 literally drawing on stuff I had learned that week ;-) (still have physics II, orgo II and physiology II to go...thank you verbal ;-)). It changed the whole way I think about the MCAT, I was surprised by how intuitive the format was for me and how much more important having the little details so fresh was. So anyway it's good to see how you feel about it too and plan from there.

In any case, you'll figure out what to do but I think taking a practice MCAT soon is also a good idea to figure out what the fuss is about ;-).

Oh and I am totally the blind leading the blind ;-).

 

[orion333]

From what I've read, there is no one way to do it. ANY of it. For every "this is how it's done" there are a bajillion "that's not how I did it."

I totally agree with this statement. I have broken pretty much every "rule" that didn't work for me and so far, so good. I have not crossed the river yet, but with interview invites from half of the schools I applied to (in - gasp! - October), I think I'm doing OK.

 

[betterlate]

I know timing very well. I would tell you that a Jan-May MCATs are earliest. June MCAT is intermediate. July MCAT is late-intermediate. August-September MCAT is late to super-late (applying SAME year). Remember that you will have 30 days after the date to receive scores, at which point some school will then not release your secondary for a few days to a week, then you will have to complete secondary esssays (sometimes critical in getting interviews, but could be completed during the 30 day scoring period), and THEN some schools adcoms will take 0-4 weeks completing you. That is around 1-2 months after the test day before you complete your app.

I would add to this that there is another factor that comes into play as you apply later in the cycle: the length of time it takes AMCAS to verify your application increases. I submitted my application in mid-June and my application was verified in less than a week. One of my classmates submitted her application in late July and the verification process took over 3 weeks simply because AMCAS was handling a much higher volume of applications by that point.

So, if you take your MCAT in mid-summer, you have to wait 30 days for the score, then you may have to wait several weeks for AMCAS to verify your application. Once they do, you may have to wait for schools to send you secondary prompts (which you then have to write and/or edit; although you can reuse portions of these, you'll have to do a significant amount of editing to tell the same story in a different word count), and then you have to wait as schools sift through a huge pile of applications. Even once the interview offers start rolling in (think positive, right?), the interview dates may be much later in the cycle b/c closer dates are filling up, which means you'll have to wait much longer to get any final decisions; that seems unnecessarily stressful.

If you have any question about your qualifications or application, you will seriously benefit from applying early; at that point in the cycle, ad comms will have more time to really pay attention to your unique attributes as opposed to skimming primarily for numbers or other data that doesn't tell your story.

I think the point everyone is making is not that you *can't* get into med school if you submit an application later, just that the later you apply, the more the numbers are stacked against you. When you submit early you are competing against fewer people for a larger number of seats. Plus you are likely to hear back from schools earlier rather than later, thus taking a lot of pressure off you throughout what is already a fairly stressful process. Win-Win!

 

[EdLongshanks]

So, if you take your MCAT in mid-summer, you have to wait 30 days for the score, then you may have to wait several weeks for AMCAS to verify your application!

This is incorrect. You can submit your application to AMCAS with a single school before you get your MCAT score. You can then add schools after you get your score. This is what I did for my May 22 MCAT and I was at the front of the line at every school for the June 26 earliest possible AMCAS release to schools date.

Just make sure that EVERYTHING else is in order. Send in your transcripts in May - as soon as your spring grades are recorded. Have your letters into interfolio before that point. Have your personal statement already written. Look up last year's secondary questions for the schools to which you apply (they are on SDN) and write answers.

Even with a June MCAT you can still be in pretty close to the front of the line for the Oct. 15th first possible acceptance dates.