Radiology to Anesthesiology

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Sorry, I don't mean to make this about money, but I just read people discussing VA salaries on another thread and I got curious so I searched it.

Googling "radiologist salary veterans affairs" = $314,150
Googling "anesthesiologist salary veterans affairs" = $452,564

That means the 2-years of lost income in rads to make a switch to anesthesiology, especially when taking into account the length of residency plus fellowship, is more than worth it at least financially. Isn't this true?

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Sorry, I don't mean to make this about money, but I just read people discussing VA salaries on another thread and I got curious so I searched it.

Googling "radiologist salary veterans affairs" = $314,150
Googling "anesthesiologist salary veterans affairs" = $452,564

That means the 2-years of lost income in rads to make a switch to anesthesiology, especially when taking into account the length of residency plus fellowship, is more than worth it at least financially. Isn't this true?

I don't know how true these VA numbers are, or how these numbers compare are in the broader job market
that's a pretty damn good anesthesiologist salary for VA hospital
i make much less than that working my butt off in a university hospital
 
Yeah, that number seems high for VA gas. Rads number is pretty close.

I just did a random search of VAs in CA then sorted by salary high to low. The highest salary for 2021 is $388k at Los Angeles VA, not sure in what capacity though. Just says "MEDICAL OFFICER". Could be an anesthesiologist I guess.
 
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Sorry, I don't mean to make this about money, but I just read people discussing VA salaries on another thread and I got curious so I searched it.

Googling "radiologist salary veterans affairs" = $314,150
Googling "anesthesiologist salary veterans affairs" = $452,564

That means the 2-years of lost income in rads to make a switch to anesthesiology, especially when taking into account the length of residency plus fellowship, is more than worth it at least financially. Isn't this true?

No numbers are not accurate. You can actually look people up and see their pay
 
Sorry, I don't mean to make this about money, but I just read people discussing VA salaries on another thread and I got curious so I searched it.

Googling "radiologist salary veterans affairs" = $314,150
Googling "anesthesiologist salary veterans affairs" = $452,564

That means the 2-years of lost income in rads to make a switch to anesthesiology, especially when taking into account the length of residency plus fellowship, is more than worth it at least financially. Isn't this true?
Pretty sure the VA I rotated at pays like 300 for gas.
 
Pretty sure the VA I rotated at pays like 300 for gas.
^^^ This. VA anesthesia numbers hover around 300 depending on the locale and 5 weeks off but you have federal benefits
 
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I don't know why people are saying radiology call is easier than anesthesia, if anything we're comparing apples to oranges. Radiology is a grind and it only gets worse as an attending minus the occasional cush jobs (outpatient only and VA). Current radiology fellow (PGY-6) at a level 1 trauma center who picks up attending shifts. When I'm on call, I am the only radiologist in the hospital staffing a 1000+ bed hospital and the volume is nuts right now. My wifes a current anesthesiology resident.

OP, I agree with others that have eluded to sticking it out. I always tell everyone you can find some sort of niche within radiology and find a job that will let you do what interests you the most. Might be better off finishing radiology then doing a chronic pain fellowship (road less traveled). Another option is doing a MSK fellowship centered around procedures and joining a orthopedic group and doing their injections for them.

Personally, if you're feeling the grind and mental exhaustion now, it will only get worse. But, I think if you find something you like within radiology that doesn't bore you and line up a VA gig, you'll do just fine. Most of the grads from my program goto the VA after graduating since it's a cush job, have residents rotating through picking up the work/phone calls, and you have tons of people to socialize with. That's what I would do in your situation. Switching specialties this deep can get too complex, especially if you have to sit out a year.

Best of luck.
 
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Op, why don’t you make another account and post the opposite question in rads forum and see the responses. Do they all dislike their jobs as much as this lot?

I like “doing” anesthesia, and that’s always the easy and predictable part of my day. It’s everything else that’s associated with doing my job. I hate confrontations or conflicts, but inevitably, it will happen. It can be with patient, crna, techs, nurses and surgeon. Those are situations that stress me out the most.

I also enjoy the mindlessness of staffing a healthy, easy case. Checking slickdeals, sdn, Reddit occasionally plan a trip or lining up a locum job. Until something that goes south, then your whole day is f*cked.

Realistically speaking you will likely to have to finish this year, and the soonest you can enter anesthesia is 2023. By then you’ll be more than half way done. Of course, unless you have some connections or transferring within the hospital….

Like a lot of people have said, bite the bullet and tough it out, save up some fuk you money and move on with your life. BUT, I also understand have a “fulfilling” (whatever YOUR definition may be, probably very different than mine or theirs) career is also important. Even though I know I may not be the most important person at work, I know I make a difference in someone’s life/care. And I do have fun (most of the days) doing it.

Good luck!
 
I don't know why people are saying radiology call is easier than anesthesia, if anything we're comparing apples to oranges. Radiology is a grind and it only gets worse as an attending minus the occasional cush jobs (outpatient only and VA). Current radiology fellow (PGY-6) at a level 1 trauma center who picks up attending shifts. When I'm on call, I am the only radiologist in the hospital staffing a 1000+ bed hospital and the volume is nuts right now. My wifes a current anesthesiology resident.

OP, I agree with others that have eluded to sticking it out. I always tell everyone you can find some sort of niche within radiology and find a job that will let you do what interests you the most. Might be better off finishing radiology then doing a chronic pain fellowship (road less traveled). Another option is doing a MSK fellowship centered around procedures and joining a orthopedic group and doing their injections for them.

Personally, if you're feeling the grind and mental exhaustion now, it will only get worse. But, I think if you find something you like within radiology that doesn't bore you and line up a VA gig, you'll do just fine. Most of the grads from my program goto the VA after graduating since it's a cush job, have residents rotating through picking up the work/phone calls, and you have tons of people to socialize with. That's what I would do in your situation. Switching specialties this deep can get too complex, especially if you have to sit out a year.

Best of luck.
Eh, I would consider fellowship very different and overall worse than being an attending. Come back in a few years and let us know if your perspective has changed. Reading out residents and covering a busy level 1 ER until 10pm was something I did a fair amount in fellowship, but haven’t done at all as an attending. Also, making hundreds of dollars per hour vs making many fewer dollars per hour may help with that perspective. VA has a few perks I guess but at my residency, it was more of a place for the dinosaurs to congregate before retiring/dying. Not sure it’s a selling point to have most of your grads go to the VA, especially in this market.
 
Thanks for the additional insight above.

TECHNIQUE:

I actually ended up spending time with anesthesia in the OR, spoke with many residents, attendings, and program director. I think this was very helpful in getting an insight into the specialty. I'll just type out my thoughts and see if anyone has any opinions. A lot of it is trying to compare with radiology, i.e. what I would be gaining vs what I'd be giving up.

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FINDINGS:

- In terms of the work, it definitely depends on the type of person you are. I think for me, it's pretty fun juggling different drugs and seeing the response immediately on the screen. The highs are pretty high and you get immersed into it that time flies quick when it's busy. For cerebral people, finding Waldo all day can be much more satisfying. I would not consider myself as a very cerebral person.

- The workload is much more evenly delegated between your mental and physical in anesthesia when compared to radiology. The mental power needed in radiology is no doubt way more exhausting. The thing about anesthesia, is that by the end of the shift I DESIRED to be alone and relax in a dark place and just wanted to go nap. This is such a rewarding feeling. Whereas in rads, after a shift, I just want to be in a very lit place and my brain is still running it's actually hard to sleep. I need to make up for the sedentary work environment.

- The "WT*" moments in radiology are more common than in anesthesiology when you compare seasoned attendings in both specialties. I really hate how 10 years into practice and radiologists would still say "I've never seen that in my life before" a good number of times every month.

- The downtime in anesthesiology, on average, beats radiology by an incredibly large margin. Some cases will be crazy busy, but there's nearly always a mix of extremely routine cases with lots of downtime. This may not be the case for many anesthesiologists, but if you were to take the average radiologist and the average anesthesiologist, the radiologist comes out with much much less down time.

- Radiology hours seem to be more set and reasonable on paper. But given the increase in demand for 24hr daily coverage, some shifts can be brutal and attendings nowadays are expected to rotate these shifts with terrible hours. It still seems like call in anesthesia is more frequent and the hours are more abrupt, especially since the schedule depends on the surgeons and you have to be in the OR even before them.

- While at this time for me it feels like anesthesiology work seems more gratifying and fun than reading scans all day, I realized that the non-anesthesiology parts of the job can be a quite big component of the daily routine. Unless one finds a non-supervisory gig, supervision does not seem to be very exciting. I don't know if anesthesia is moving more towards supervision in general, but if it is then this can present a few annoyances one has to deal with. In particular, picking and choosing your CRNA's may not be possible, you may have malignant supervisory models, loss of control/increased liability, and worst of all is a decline in skillset over time. You almost become an administrator running the board. I think if every anesthesiologist did their own case then it's a lot more fun.

- It seems like partnership problems present in radiology are no less present in anesthesiology. Extra and worse call shifts are dumped on the more junior attendings. There seems to be nothing they can do about it. I also didn't realize that it almost feels like friction between attendings in anesthesiology in the same group can be even a little worse than radiology when there's conflict.

- Money in anesthesiology is pretty good and seems like it is on par with rads, especially if one is willing to do locums. I don't know much about locum opportunities, but it seems to be more available than in radiology.

- Job market in radiology seems a little more versatile and can be tailored to one's desires more easily. Although it seems like if one is willing to give up some money, you can find some crazy cush work setups in anesthesia.

- Dealing with surgeons in anesthesiology is a hit or miss it seems. The problem is that if it's a malignant surgeon, you're stuck with them in the OR for several hours. In radiology, the surgeon may throw some words but once you hang up the phone or close the email it's over (most of the time).

- Culture seems to be more easygoing in anesthesia than in radiology, although I'd guess this is institution dependent. In general, it feels like rads folks are just wired people vs dare I say a more "chill" personality in anesthesia. Again, idk this may totally be institutional dependent.


*************************************************
IMPRESSION:

Overall, I think at my stage, I'm not so sure if it's worth switching with half of rads training under my belt. There's a big risk that once I announce a desire to switch, I may end up with nothing because I'd lose my spot and may not get the support/letters to match. I really dread the studying and excessive memorization of insurmountable pathologies in all the body systems and how they present. Because of this dread I have to put in extra work to make progress. I hope things get better. I think after talking to people, advice on here, and personal conversations and exposure in both fields, I'd say I'm 80% leaning towards staying at this point. Still, at this point in time, I kind of wish I picked a shorter and less cerebral specialty. I'm grateful I have a job at the moment.
 
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I think you should go the IR route. I say this not because the money is better or the lifestyle is easier but rather the work is much more challenging. I think the combo of IR/DR is the route forward for you. As for being "brutal" you can find cushy IR jobs post residency that don't involve Trauma call or Stroke work.
There is a need for basic IR docs out there who make a good living doing it. The easy money today is DR but who knows what just 5-7 years holds for DR. The need for IR is real and not going away so think longer term and big picture.
I agree With Blade. IR seems like the perfect fit for OP.

If you ask around, a lot of anesthesiologists could picture themselves in IR if they were to pick another field.

For OP who’s a doer rather than a thinker, I don’t see how IR wouldn’t be the right path at this juncture (already partially through DR after all).
 
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IR has problems too: long/weird hours, lots of call, heavy lead for hours on end. A lot of IR guys also still have to dictate DR too when not in a case (at least in PP).
 
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IR is surgery, period. Additionally, everyone hates IR people in most hospitals. They are one of the busiest services with longer hours than most surgery services in every hospital I’ve been in. Insanity how many consults you’ll lfield on IR call, and your patients are sick sick sick
The IR docs are some of the best physicians in the hospital and save lives. The older i get the more I realize just how good IR is at saving lives through embolizations vs massive emergency surgery resulting in death. So, no I don't hate IR even at 0200.
 
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The IR docs are some of the best physicians in the hospital and save lives. The older i get the more I realize just how good IR is at saving lives through embolizations vs massive emergency surgery resulting in death. So, no I don't hate IR even at 0200.


We agree because we both started practice in the days when IR didn’t do as many lifesaving procedures and patients suffered for it. To me they are wizards and miracle workers.
 
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The IR docs are some of the best physicians in the hospital and save lives. The older i get the more I realize just how good IR is at saving lives through embolizations vs massive emergency surgery resulting in death. So, no I don't hate IR even at 0200.

agree that IR docs do life-and-death things that no-one else can do, and for the most part very competent at it
what i hate is the off-site anesthesia set-up in those rooms
 
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agree that IR docs do life-and-death things that no-one else can do, and for the most part very competent at it
what i hate is the off-site anesthesia set-up in those rooms

Anything in radiology is never ideal…. I also don’t enjoy dealing with IR department as a whole, since a lot of their procedures are done with local or sedation. Every time we are there, it’s like a whole new production.

At one of my jobs before, we cover ORs with CRNAs, but 90% of NORAs, we will do ourselves.
 
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