Re-assessing for 2nd cycle application: full-time job edition

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white plum

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Hi, all! Thanks for your advice in my last WAMC post. I'm posting again with a pretty big update and some concerns for this upcoming cycle. Already tried searching for a similar thread or two but couldn't find any that really hit the nail on the head.

My original plan after my last cycle was to commit to DO and retake any C science courses for a bump in GPA. Life happened and I needed to get out of my living situation immediately, which in-turn lead to me to accept a pretty huge and fortunate promotion at work, making me full-time. That's great, but it derailed my GPA repair plan. I read elsewhere here at SDN that it's important to have at least one new asset when reapplying. I'm wondering if mine are enough, them being 1) a little bump in GPA and 2) new, meaningful clincially-related employment. Here's the numbers:

GPA Improvement
1st cycle DO numbers:
  • cGPA 3.4, sGPA 3.0
  • MCAT: 26 (7PS/11VR/8BS)
  • MCAT: 25 )6PS/11VR/8BS)
(Yes, MCAT is bad - I was burnt out and in denial about it)

Here's the meager calculated GPA improvement:
  • cGPA: 3.4, sGPA: 3.1*
  • No new MCAT
Not a tremendous change, but I think it pushed me up from borderline. This is after three classes - one A, one B, one W. Not the prettiest, but I thought a W was the best I could do in the face of some serious burnout.

Employment
I spent 3+ years working in a pediatric clinical setting, and have been promoted to a more administrative/leadership role hiring clinicians and staffing clinical teams with my background knowledge. I am the sole individual in this position for my entire region of service. This was a very big step up for me, and I have a ton of support from my manager, who said he'd be happy to write me a strong letter of recommendation. I feel that my promotion doesn't just show my competency and hard work, but it also lead me to the conclusion that I now know definitively that I am more aligned to clinical and hands-on work. I think that will set the scene for a great new revision to my personal statement.

ECs, LORs, volunteering, etc
Though on a smaller scale nowadays, I also continue to do some clinical volunteer work as head medic for a local sports team, as well as non-clinical volunteering through my employer. I have one LOR from my university's health science committee with reservations but written by a professor I had pretty strong rapport with (now that I mention it, I can go back through the process as an alumna), as well as a LOR from a DO physician I shadowed, and an additional LOR from the chair of my alma mater's physics & chem depts - another professor with whom I had strong rapport. ECs include close to 200 hours of shadowing, additional volunteering, honors club association and recognition, etc that I had under my belt for my first application cycle. I know LOR overkill is a thing, so a replacement would have to be made if I asked my employer for one, I think.

I feel that I'm primed up for what can be a good application cycle this year so long as I apply nice and early, pre-write my secondaries, etc. I guess my question is this - is the combination of a small GPA bump plus promotion to a full-time (though admittedly much more administrative) leadership position in clinical/behavioral services enough of a new "asset" for this new application cycle this June?

Thanks for reading through my giant book of a post! I look forward to hearing your thoughts - please feel free to point out any more room for improvement I've overlooked!

For reference, here's the school list I applied to my first cycle:
[MD]
UofC Pritzker
NYMC
Rush
UC Davis
MSU
Tulane
Rosalind Franklin
Ohio State
Loyola
Feinberg
SIU
UofI
Albany

[DO]
CCOM
MU-COM
NOVA
ATSU-SOMA
KCUMB
WesternU

*edited due to a miscalculation. D'oh.

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How many more C/D/F grades do you have that have not yet been replaced? If you can do it, I would say that raising your GPA into more of the 3.7-3.8 range would be helpful, especially with the lackluster (but probably still acceptable) MCAT score. Could you reach that GPA range by retaking one class this summer and another in the fall? If you can, take the classes and update your med schools with the grades as they come out (obviously make sure they're As!).
 
I mostly agree with @QofQuimica and don't feel like your current improvements will be enough since you are a reapplicant now (slightly higher bar). Your call but if you wait a year and make the improvements your app will go in strong, and you can start beefing up your bank account with the new raise/job (congrats btw). You will be much better off if you can go in strong rather then trying to play catch up and risking getting knocked out of the running before you have those As in hand.
 
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Hi guys! Thanks so much for your responses!! So here's a downer - I went back into the AACOMAS calculator and realized that some of the values were off, and my "improved" GPAs would still actually be a cGPA of 3.4 and a sGPA of 3.1.

If I did do 3 more semesters of retakes (summer/fall/spring) and applied next year, the highest I could get looks like cGPA 3.6 and sGPA 3.4. If I did 2 more and applied this year with updates, I'd end up at a cGPA 3.5 and a sGPA 3.3.

Even though I REALLY wanted to apply this cycle, it looks like going for next cycle may be safer/smarter - I'd be much more lined up with the matriculant averages (got the 2015 data open in another tab) at the very least.
 
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Hello again, all! Spent some more time thinking and wanted some input.

I was talking about this at work and enrolling in an SMP was brought up. The more I think about it the more appealing it starts to get. I'm excited by the prospect of doing graduate-level work and the programs local to me sound awesome. I'm thinking I can apply a year in so that I have some academic progress to show, and if I get a 2nd cycle rejection, I can finish off my masters and reapply or go in another direction.

In my first WAMC ever, I was advised against an SMP just because I was borderline enough, especially considering the cost. That was a couple years ago, though. I'd really appreciate any insight! Thanks, guys!!
 
SMPs are not for everyone. Before you commit, speak with people involved with the program. With your stats it very well could be more $$$ than it's worth. Sometimes the best option is to do non-structured course work and grade replacement. Regardless, best of luck!
 
SMPs are not for everyone. Before you commit, speak with people involved with the program. With your stats it very well could be more $$$ than it's worth. Sometimes the best option is to do non-structured course work and grade replacement. Regardless, best of luck!
Thank you! (I love the username and avatar, btw)
 
Hi again! Thought I'd pop back in. Got sucked into life (had to make yet another emergency change in my living situation which was stressful beyond belief), and I'm now re-assessing where I stand as far as re-applying. I just spent some time searching through the forum and I'm feeling a little hopeless.

I had spoken with a few classmates from my EMT class a while back and they were raving about their MPH programs. I started giving MPH a thought in place of an SMP (I was hovering around IIT's SMP in Bio because I can do it online and part time), mostly because I fell ludicrously in love with the curriculum (pretty much decided on the program my alma mater offers, which is 2.5 years long) and felt it could be enriching for a career in medicine. Figured I'd start the MPH, apply in June '17 with a solid 8 months' worth of academic performance (and grade updates after I send in the app), finish another year of the MPH while waiting to matriculate (or not), and if not, finish out the MPH before reapplying. If I matriculated, I'd finish it after med school. However, I scanned SDN for some threads on the subject and am a little crestfallen that it isn't the boon for reapplicants that I thought it was. It's confusing - I thought it was the best of two worlds. The GPA redemption of an SMP, but the credential that I can use in case med school falls through (I hate the thought but I can't deny it's a possibility). I also just feel REALLY passionate about several aspects of public health and was starting to salivate over the course descriptions in the program.

Here is where I'm stuck: grade replacement feels like slow motion, and doesn't seem as helpful as a grad program that'd give me GPA improvement AND additional credentials to boot, but $$$. With that being said, however, isn't 40k for a grad program a drop in the bucket compared to the 200k of medical school debt I'd have later on? I don't know who else to talk to for advice other than you guys (thanks again) and I'm feeling lost and discouraged. Just want to do the most efficient thing that'll get me in med school with the least amount of wasted time/money. I know it's a journey and not a race, but the stagnancy is starting to eat away at me - feels like no matter what I do, I'm just wasting more time. Here's another thing to worry about - my MCAT expires in 08/2017, so the clock is ticking in my ear. (Silver lining, though - wouldn't that mean my slate is pretty clean as far as MCATs go and I can shoot for a really good retake if anything?)

Sorry about the messy post, but can anyone help a friend out? I'm really desperate for some dependable direction. Thanks again.
 
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Hi again! Thought I'd pop back in. Got sucked into life (had to make yet another emergency change in my living situation which was stressful beyond belief), and I'm now re-assessing where I stand as far as re-applying. I just spent some time searching through the forum and I'm feeling a little hopeless.

I had spoken with a few classmates from my EMT class a while back and they were raving about their MPH programs. I started giving MPH a thought in place of an SMP (I was hovering around IIT's SMP in Bio because I can do it online and part time), mostly because I fell ludicrously in love with the curriculum (pretty much decided on the program my alma mater offers, which is 2.5 years long) and felt it could be enriching for a career in medicine. Figured I'd start the MPH, apply in June '17 with a solid 8 months' worth of academic performance (and grade updates after I send in the app), finish another year of the MPH while waiting to matriculate (or not), and if not, finish out the MPH before reapplying. If I matriculated, I'd finish it after med school. However, I scanned SDN for some threads on the subject and am a little crestfallen that it isn't the boon for reapplicants that I thought it was. It's confusing - I thought it was the best of two worlds. The GPA redemption of an SMP, but the credential that I can use in case med school falls through (I hate the thought but I can't deny it's a possibility). I also just feel REALLY passionate about several aspects of public health and was starting to salivate over the course descriptions in the program.

Here is where I'm stuck: grade replacement feels like slow motion, and doesn't seem as helpful as a grad program that'd give me GPA improvement AND additional credentials to boot, but $$$. With that being said, however, isn't 40k for a grad program a drop in the bucket compared to the 200k of medical school debt I'd have later on? I don't know who else to talk to for advice other than you guys (thanks again) and I'm feeling lost and discouraged. Just want to do the most efficient thing that'll get me in med school with the least amount of wasted time/money. I know it's a journey and not a race, but the stagnancy is starting to eat away at me - feels like no matter what I do, I'm just wasting more time. Here's another thing to worry about - my MCAT expires in 08/2017, so the clock is ticking in my ear. (Silver lining, though - wouldn't that mean my slate is pretty clean as far as MCATs go and I can shoot for a really good retake if anything?)

Sorry about the messy post, but can anyone help a friend out? I'm really desperate for some dependable direction. Thanks again.

A MPH will NOT help your chances for med school. That GPA will not be considered with your undergrad GPA. Also many schools won't take grade updates after you send in your app. For a SMP, you really usually will need a decent MCAT for it to be useful to you. If you do bad in the SMP, you will have basically killed your chances at med school.

This is not a race. Take your time and do it right. If that means you need to take the MCAT again, so be it. And no, they will still see the old MCATs, but if enough time has passed and there is a significant improvement along with grade improvement, that will help you.
 
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A MPH will NOT help your chances for med school. That GPA will not be considered with your undergrad GPA. Also many schools won't take grade updates after you send in your app. For a SMP, you really usually will need a decent MCAT for it to be useful to you. If you do bad in the SMP, you will have basically killed your chances at med school.

This is not a race. Take your time and do it right. If that means you need to take the MCAT again, so be it. And no, they will still see the old MCATs, but if enough time has passed and there is a significant improvement along with grade improvement, that will help you.
Hi ThoracicGuy! Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond to my post.

I've definitely decided to retake the MCAT, and I think I'll do that first. I also got a hold of my alma mater's pre-med advisor who also encouraged the MCAT retake. Here's where it gets confusing, though: she said the MPH would be really helpful for me. She said she'd like to see me do some DIY post-bacc/upper-level science at a university, and if I can't make that happen, to then consider an SMP or MPH. Do you have any idea where the point of contention is there? I'm still hung up on that damn MPH.

Here's what I've written down as far as plans go:
1. Retake MCAT in April/May 2017 with the SDN study plan. If practice exams are looking good, take a look at DO schools with a comparable LizzyM score (been playing with the application assistant) and consider applying. If not, really PREPARE the **** out of myself and take the MCAT when ready in 2017.
2. Research upper-level a la carte coursework (DIY post-bacc) nearby, starting Winter 2018 at the very latest. If that doesn't work, THEN:
3. Research SMPs/formal masters' programs. If I'm still working FT, I might be limited to IIT's MS in Bio, but my employer is pretty flexible so I may be able to make a hybrid or PT position of some sort work.
4. Apply, most likely June 2018.

I feel like that's scores ahead of where I was. THANKS again - I can't tell you how much I appreciate you weighing in.
 
1) A higher MCAT will go a long way.
2) A higher GPA will also go a long way. If you have any intention of applying to MD schools, the graduate work for an MPH will not help for your GPA. Even for DO schools, the undergrad/postbac GPA seems more emphasized, even though graduate work is included in your overall GPA. I had a masters in bioengineering with a >3.9 GPA and research, and schools zoned in on my undergrad coursework every time. My graduate work was more interesting as an activity than critical to my overall application from what I can tell. While it seems like it could be really helpful, the cost/benefit of informal post-bac versus a retakes/undergrad courses is in favor of post-bac (in my opinion). Both in terms of experience, and raw cost.
3) 200k of debt may be an understatement depending on what you're bringing to the table. Looking at two DO schools, one listed COA of ~60k/year, another was near 100k/year for OOS students. In-state MD can easily be 60k/year. Some place like Tufts would be 90k/year. Additionally, 40k in loans (now) for an MPH could/would translate into >60k after interest, right?

Re-emphasizing, it's not a sprint. Make sure to keep up your volunteering (non-medical and for those in need is important), be confident before you retake your MCAT, increase your GPA through undergrad coursework, and definitely get the employer letter (schools I reapplied to seem to have appreciated it). All in my opinion, as a fellow non-trad re-applicant.
 
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OP, my advice to you is to take a step back and stop for just a second. You are all over the place here with various plans, and the reason why is because you don't have a clear idea yet about what your goal is. So that's the first important decision you need to make: do you, or do you not, want to be a physician? If the answer to that question is yes, then forget about all these boondoggles like doing an MPH and the like. You need to focus like a laser on improving your app for *medical school*, because the only way you can be a physician is to go to medical school, and the only way you can go to medical school is to get accepted to medical school.

There are basically two ways to improve your academic record for med school admissions: one is via post bac (either formal or informal), and the other is via SMP. *None* of the other myriad grad degrees out there besides an SMP will improve your chances of getting into medical school. So the good news is that it really narrows down your decision to just a few options: DIY post bac, formal post bac, or SMP. These are the options you should be researching. Regarding which of these options to choose, that depends on your specific situation and what is available in your area. Many people opt for an informal post bac (which is the cheapest route) and do just fine with rehabilitating their GPAs that way. However, the disadvantage to doing this is that it takes longer versus doing a formal postbac or SMP program. So, as with many things in life, you have a time versus money decision to make here. None of these options is "right" or "better," and people have successfully used all three of these pathways to rehabilitate their GPAs and gain acceptance to medical school.

I will caution you that if you do choose to go with a formal program, it is best to select one that is linked with a medical school such that if you do well in the post bac or SMP, it will give you a leg up on being accepted to the affiliated med school. However, you need to be very prepared to bust your butt in these programs, which are designed to give a "second chance" to people like you who didn't do well in college the first time around but are now prepared to excel. You should not attempt any post bac or SMP until you are ready and able to perform at that level; particularly if you don't perform well in a linked program, you could wind up in an even bigger hole academically than you're already in.
 
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