Real talk for a single 30-something lady: NP, PA, MD?

[achtungkatie]

Hi there! Thanks for reading. I'll try to be succinct.

I'm a 30-year-old second career student. (First career is bartender, undergrad in English, so, y'know, not leaving much behind here.) I'm single, no kids, no commitments save for about 40k in various debt (yuck). I have a strong interest in medicine/health science, which stems from the fact that both of my parents are physicians--mother is a pediatrician, father is the head dermatologist at a well-respected institution; father also had a 20-year career in the military, so I've seen some of the sides of military medicine as well.

I realize that 30 (earliest I could start med school would be 32, since I'm missing a few prereqs still & haven't taken the MCAT) is hardly too young for medical school; however, I'm trying to be pragmatic about myself and my career/personal goals, so I'd appreciate your advice.

I want kids. I care more about having a child/children than I do about a spouse, or even a specific career; I've made my peace with the potential of being a single mom (and FWIW my parents are on board) but the idea of being a single mom while in med school/residency sounds... not great. I realize that there's always the chance to find someone in school, etc, but I'm trying not to bank on having support from a someone who doesn't yet exist, so all my calculations are predicated on being single. I have a lot of other interests aside from medicine, and the idea of having no control over a large chunk of my life while piling a mountain of debt on my shoulders for the next 10-12 years doesn't thrill me. Also, despite supposedly being in one of the sweet-spot professions, I've been watching my 63-year-old father pull 60 and 70-hour workweeks due to large amount of administrative crap and staffing issues, and I'm not looking for a career that would eat every other part of my life whole.

So, obviously, while I'm still considering medical school, I'm strongly attracted to the idea of PA or NP. I realize academic interests may vary wildly from actual affection for clinical practice, but with that said, I'm currently interested in emergency medicine, infectious disease, and public health. (Part of the appeal of NP/PA is the flexibility inherent in them, as compared to MD.)

Do you have any thoughts for me? I'm leaning towards NP simply because the route to get there seems more conducive to minimal debt, and I intend to live in the Pacific Northwest (family/friends in Portland & Seattle), but I'm not sold on anything yet. I know that PA has a training route more similar to medical school, but as of yet I have no HCE to speak of, but I also know that NPs seem to have more autonomy/a better lobbying body on their behalf. I enjoy hard work, I love learning, and I think medicine & the human body is fascinating, but I also want to respect the fact that medicine is a career that asks a lot, and I'm not sure that, for me personally, it's worth it. For those of you further down this road: was it worth it?

The reason I'm posing this question here is to hopefully get feedback from a) those of you who were in my shoes, went NP/PA/some other route, and ultimately found yourself dissatisfied & heading for that MD anyway, b) those of you who work with PAs/NPs and what you think of their opportunities/career satisfaction; c) some magical person who has advice for me that I can't conceive of at this end. (EMEDPA, I've seen your posts on multiple boards, and I would be grateful for your input especially.)

Thanks for reading my lengthy post. Cheers.

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[2Pints]

For the NP route. You are looking at minimum 15 month accelerated BSN program. You wouldn't be able to start next Fall. I am only familiar with programs in my state and they all have Fall start dates. You could get away with 1-2 years bedside experience before entering a NP program which you'd have to the option of doing either FT or PT. Going the PT route you'd take a little longer but could have your hospital help with tuition reimbursement. Several of my coworkers are doing that right now. I'm only two years younger than you and have hopes of a family one day. I fully realize that this may or may not happen but it all depends on what my support system looks like in the next decade.

I thought I wouldn't care about autonomy when I went into nursing. "It's all about the patient" right? Turns out I do. Not because I want to be boss or have anything less than respect for my current intensivists. One of the biggest reasons is I don't care enough about working to establish the NP role since it is newer in the healthcare world. The NP role is valuable. I can and will argue for its value but my experience with nursing schools and the nursing profession in general has been lackluster. So if I'm going to put the time and effort into my education (yet again) I want the best for my patients and myself. I don't want to suffer through years of disorganization that some of my friends from nursing school are going through now.

So if you were to go the NP route my suggestions are to shadow NPs. Ask what they love and hate about their role. Then research good schools. Try and find students that attend those schools and see if they had a good education and experience.

 

[Goro]

What does your heart tell you?

BTW, my mom was a single mom. Being the child of a single mom is no picnic...it left scars. I find your attitude to be selfish. A child needs two parents.

Hi there! Thanks for reading. I'll try to be succinct.

I'm a 30-year-old second career student. (First career is bartender, undergrad in English, so, y'know, not leaving much behind here.) I'm single, no kids, no commitments save for about 40k in various debt (yuck). I have a strong interest in medicine/health science, which stems from the fact that both of my parents are physicians--mother is a pediatrician, father is the head dermatologist at a well-respected institution; father also had a 20-year career in the military, so I've seen some of the sides of military medicine as well.

I realize that 30 (earliest I could start med school would be 32, since I'm missing a few prereqs still & haven't taken the MCAT) is hardly too young for medical school; however, I'm trying to be pragmatic about myself and my career/personal goals, so I'd appreciate your advice.

I want kids. I care more about having a child/children than I do about a spouse, or even a specific career; I've made my peace with the potential of being a single mom (and FWIW my parents are on board) but the idea of being a single mom while in med school/residency sounds... not great. I realize that there's always the chance to find someone in school, etc, but I'm trying not to bank on having support from a someone who doesn't yet exist, so all my calculations are predicated on being single. I have a lot of other interests aside from medicine, and the idea of having no control over a large chunk of my life while piling a mountain of debt on my shoulders for the next 10-12 years doesn't thrill me. Also, despite supposedly being in one of the sweet-spot professions, I've been watching my 63-year-old father pull 60 and 70-hour workweeks due to large amount of administrative crap and staffing issues, and I'm not looking for a career that would eat every other part of my life whole.

So, obviously, while I'm still considering medical school, I'm strongly attracted to the idea of PA or NP. I realize academic interests may vary wildly from actual affection for clinical practice, but with that said, I'm currently interested in emergency medicine, infectious disease, and public health. (Part of the appeal of NP/PA is the flexibility inherent in them, as compared to MD.)

Do you have any thoughts for me? I'm leaning towards NP simply because the route to get there seems more conducive to minimal debt, and I intend to live in the Pacific Northwest (family/friends in Portland & Seattle), but I'm not sold on anything yet. I know that PA has a training route more similar to medical school, but as of yet I have no HCE to speak of, but I also know that NPs seem to have more autonomy/a better lobbying body on their behalf. I enjoy hard work, I love learning, and I think medicine & the human body is fascinating, but I also want to respect the fact that medicine is a career that asks a lot, and I'm not sure that, for me personally, it's worth it. For those of you further down this road: was it worth it?

The reason I'm posing this question here is to hopefully get feedback from a) those of you who were in my shoes, went NP/PA/some other route, and ultimately found yourself dissatisfied & heading for that MD anyway, b) those of you who work with PAs/NPs and what you think of their opportunities/career satisfaction; c) some magical person who has advice for me that I can't conceive of at this end. (EMEDPA, I've seen your posts on multiple boards, and I would be grateful for your input especially.)

Thanks for reading my lengthy post. Cheers.

 

[AustinTX]

I agree with TriNurse. I spent a lot of time talking to NPs when I was on a nursing track and decided that ultimately I didn't want to be stuck in a profession that is trying to legitimize itself.
Another thing to consider would be to think about what types of specialties you are most interested in. What do you want to be doing in 10 years? Primary care? Emergency medicine? L&D? Neurosurgery? Etc. NPs and PAs do have lots of options, but not as many as MDs.

 

[QofQuimica]

Can I ask you a kind of dumb question? I don't really get a sense that you're all that interested in any of these potential careers; why are you looking to change careers at all? And especially if being a mother is your true dream, why not focus instead on finding a partner to build a life and raise your child with? I have to agree with Goro that planning to be a single mom is pretty darn selfish. It's bad enough when people wind up as single parents through circumstances beyond their control, or because of a relationship breaking apart. But the vast majority of them didn't plan it that way, and certainly wouldn't have wanted it that way if they had their choice in the matter.

Since you want pragmatic advice, here's mine as a single woman who is ten years older than you and childless by choice. If being a mother truly meant more than anything else in the world to me, I'd forget about going back to school for the time being (and certainly not medical school). That's not where you're statistically most likely to meet a potential father for your child, especially given that you'd be 10 years older than your trad classmates. Instead, I'd be doing things like joining hobby groups for singles, making an online dating profile, asking people to introduce me to eligible guys, etc. And after you've accomplished your goal of having a family, there's no reason why you still couldn't go back to school if that was something you wanted to do in the future. As a woman, it's a heck of a lot easier to have a baby at 30 and go to med school at 40 than the other way around.

 

[katiemaude]

Just started med school at 36. Can tell you already I doubt you'd meet your baby daddy in my situation. My classmates are lovely but the men (who are mostly 10+ years younger) are not looking to procreate. Definitely to hook up, maybe for a girlfriend, but kids aren't on their minds for 7+ years. The few who are married with kids came in that way.

If that's your dream, work on meeting men and see if you end up dating someone who meets your fancy. Work on your prereqs (although I must add, I had no time for dating during the process... It was only after I finished jumping through the med school hoops that I found any time or energy to date). If it leads to a baby, great. If it doesn't, you are ready to apply to med school.

People do go through med school and have kids. With my limited experience, I can already say I would not recommend it, and I would definitely not recommend doing it intentionally without a supportive partner and family nearby. It's not fair to you or the baby.

I moved to med school with my gainfully employed boyfriend, who I met several months before I began applying but after I did the prereqs/MCAT/volunteer hoopla. I was just working and had time to spend getting to know him. Had I met him during the app cycle, I'm not sure we'd have ended up together because my focus was elsewhere.d

 

[Polkadotfan]

While I am young and a pre-med myself, I want to add please don't try to do the whole mommy thing by yourself without really trying for a partner. I did the pregnancy and birth virtually alone (spouse was deployed). It was much much harder than I imagined it would have been and I was surrounded by supportive family also. I thought I would be fine. We actually planned it that way, but I regretted it a little and wished for the support. Especially when she was nonstop crying.
I just wanted to add this since I actually have experience doing the pregnancy/birth/first part of life thing alone and it was not fun and I could not imagine still doing it alone. Babies are hard.

 

[Esquire]

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[jl lin]

Since the pacific NW has independent NP practice, go NP so you can take over your dad's derm practice. Save several mil by firing the remaining docs & replace them with NP's, a good office manager, and an army of billers. Refer out the hard cases, make bank, then pay a fertility doc for IVF.

OK, just, Wow. That's an answer--not necessarily a good one, but it is an answer.

 

[achtungkatie]

While I am young and a pre-med myself, I want to add please don't try to do the whole mommy thing by yourself without really trying for a partner. I did the pregnancy and birth virtually alone (spouse was deployed). It was much much harder than I imagined it would have been and I was surrounded by supportive family also. I thought I would be fine. We actually planned it that way, but I regretted it a little and wished for the support. Especially when she was nonstop crying.
I just wanted to add this since I actually have experience doing the pregnancy/birth/first part of life thing alone and it was not fun and I could not imagine still doing it alone. Babies are hard.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I don't pretend to think that being a single mother would be anything but incredibly difficult; my mother also happened to spend 2 years raisining 3 children under the age of 5 alone, while my father was deployed on 2 consecutive unaccompanied overseas TODs, and she was very clear about how much it sucked, even though SHE was also close to family. It really is a stance-of-last resort, and even though both parents have offered everything from moving in with me to help with baby, to paying for hired help, I still don't love the idea, but I know I do want kids. So I'm just trying to plan for the worst, I guess.

Thanks again for your response.

 

[achtungkatie]

Can I ask you a kind of dumb question? I don't really get a sense that you're all that interested in any of these potential careers; why are you looking to change careers at all? And especially if being a mother is your true dream, why not focus instead on finding a partner to build a life and raise your child with? I have to agree with Goro that planning to be a single mom is pretty darn selfish. It's bad enough when people wind up as single parents through circumstances beyond their control, or because of a relationship breaking apart. But the vast majority of them didn't plan it that way, and certainly wouldn't have wanted it that way if they had their choice in the matter.

Since you want pragmatic advice, here's mine as a single woman who is ten years older than you and childless by choice. If being a mother truly meant more than anything else in the world to me, I'd forget about going back to school for the time being (and certainly not medical school). That's not where you're statistically most likely to meet a potential father for your child, especially given that you'd be 10 years older than your trad classmates. Instead, I'd be doing things like joining hobby groups for singles, making an online dating profile, asking people to introduce me to eligible guys, etc. And after you've accomplished your goal of having a family, there's no reason why you still couldn't go back to school if that was something you wanted to do in the future. As a woman, it's a heck of a lot easier to have a baby at 30 and go to med school at 40 than the other way around.

It's not a dumb question. You don't know me or my background, and I'm not sure how much my post actually conveyed why I'm here. I'm looking to change careers because a) I don't have much of one at the moment, and I don't want to stay in it, b) I'm still young enough and unattached enough to slog through the hassle of career change, c) I think medicine, science, and the human body is fascinating, and I unfortunately have several tragic personal stories of the my-best-friend-from-high-school-is-dying-of-metastatic-melanoma-variety, and d) I grew up around medicine and even though I spent about 20 years actively hostile to the idea of doing what my parents did, it got its roots in me and made me want to go after it in the end. I am simply trying to be pragmatic about the OTHER things in life I also want. Hence, my post.

As I said to another poster here, I really don't love the idea of being a single mom. It's not my first preference, at all, and while I don't feel the need to give a blow-by-blow on my thought process, I wouldn't go there unless I had literally every card in the deck stacked in my favor in terms of stable career, money in the bacnk, support network, etc. But I would still rather be a single mother than no child of my own, even if no partner makes an appearance. End of story.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your perspective was one I was hoping to hear from. I tend to agree with what you said, but I still wanted outside advice and opinions of people who have been there, done that, have the t-shirt and the greeting card. I have thought about going to medical school a little later in life, but money and time have a way of making things hard, so I'm wary of deferring it too much. Just trying to weigh my options.

Thanks again.

 

[achtungkatie]

Just started med school at 36. Can tell you already I doubt you'd meet your baby daddy in my situation. My classmates are lovely but the men (who are mostly 10+ years younger) are not looking to procreate. Definitely to hook up, maybe for a girlfriend, but kids aren't on their minds for 7+ years. The few who are married with kids came in that way.

If that's your dream, work on meeting men and see if you end up dating someone who meets your fancy. Work on your prereqs (although I must add, I had no time for dating during the process... It was only after I finished jumping through the med school hoops that I found any time or energy to date). If it leads to a baby, great. If it doesn't, you are ready to apply to med school.

People do go through med school and have kids. With my limited experience, I can already say I would not recommend it, and I would definitely not recommend doing it intentionally without a supportive partner and family nearby. It's not fair to you or the baby.

I moved to med school with my gainfully employed boyfriend, who I met several months before I began applying but after I did the prereqs/MCAT/volunteer hoopla. I was just working and had time to spend getting to know him. Had I met him during the app cycle, I'm not sure we'd have ended up together because my focus was elsewhere.d

Thank you for reading and taking the time to reply. I appreciate the feedback, especially considering you are in the shoes I would metaphorically be wearing a few years from now. I kind of already suspected what you said about men in med school not looking for love, as it were. Good to know.

 

[achtungkatie]

Since the pacific NW has independent NP practice, go NP so you can take over your dad's derm practice. Save several mil by firing the remaining docs & replace them with NP's, a good office manager, and an army of billers. Refer out the hard cases, make bank, then pay a fertility doc for IVF.

Holy cats, that's definitely an answer. Not sure if it's the one I'm looking for, but thanks for replying!

 

[achtungkatie]

I agree with TriNurse. I spent a lot of time talking to NPs when I was on a nursing track and decided that ultimately I didn't want to be stuck in a profession that is trying to legitimize itself.
Another thing to consider would be to think about what types of specialties you are most interested in. What do you want to be doing in 10 years? Primary care? Emergency medicine? L&D? Neurosurgery? Etc. NPs and PAs do have lots of options, but not as many as MDs.

Thank you for replying. I had not thought of it in those terms (i.e. a field that is struggling to legitimize itself atm). I really really don't love how disorganized and unstandardized the NP field is at the moment, despite its other perks, so that's something to think about. And as for specialty - I wish I knew. I know most people don't really decide till rotations, or other hands-on clinical work, so it's hard to say, but still worth thinking about.

 

[achtungkatie]

What does your heart tell you?

BTW, my mom was a single mom. Being the child of a single mom is no picnic...it left scars. I find your attitude to be selfish. A child needs two parents.

I'm sorry that your childhood left scars. Thank you for weighing in. I don't happen to feel that my attitude is selfish, but without providing a wealth of background information about my personal life and choices, it is easy to see why you would think that. The flip side of the coin is that I am here asking how bad of an idea this is precisely BECAUSE I want to be a good parent, as opposed to the kind who would sacrifice my child's welfare. Thank you all the same.

 

[achtungkatie]

For the NP route. You are looking at minimum 15 month accelerated BSN program. You wouldn't be able to start next Fall. I am only familiar with programs in my state and they all have Fall start dates. You could get away with 1-2 years bedside experience before entering a NP program which you'd have to the option of doing either FT or PT. Going the PT route you'd take a little longer but could have your hospital help with tuition reimbursement. Several of my coworkers are doing that right now. I'm only two years younger than you and have hopes of a family one day. I fully realize that this may or may not happen but it all depends on what my support system looks like in the next decade.

I thought I wouldn't care about autonomy when I went into nursing. "It's all about the patient" right? Turns out I do. Not because I want to be boss or have anything less than respect for my current intensivists. One of the biggest reasons is I don't care enough about working to establish the NP role since it is newer in the healthcare world. The NP role is valuable. I can and will argue for its value but my experience with nursing schools and the nursing profession in general has been lackluster. So if I'm going to put the time and effort into my education (yet again) I want the best for my patients and myself. I don't want to suffer through years of disorganization that some of my friends from nursing school are going through now.

So if you were to go the NP route my suggestions are to shadow NPs. Ask what they love and hate about their role. Then research good schools. Try and find students that attend those schools and see if they had a good education and experience.

Thanks a bunch for replying here. Your point about the NP role being disorganized and fighting to sort itself out are really good ones that I hadn't thought of in those terms. I really dislike how unstandardized the role is at the moment, too---different rules about licensing in every state, different scope of practice, different number of clinical hours before a degree is granted from school to school, etc. If I did go the NP route, I would investigate what the top of the line schools were, and try to get the very best education I could, but it's still a gamble. Do you mind if I ask what you are planning to do from here? Are you headed to medical school, or trying to?

 

[Nasrudin]

If it's real talk you need...Paging Dr. R. Kelly...




.

 

[2Pints]

Do you mind if I ask what you are planning to do from here? Are you headed to medical school, or trying to?

I'm in the application process. Fortunately I had all of my prerequisites from my first time in school. I entered nursing fully intending to become an NP. I had done my research, shadowed and talked with a lot of people. Time at the bedside showed me that my heart was just not into becoming an NP.

Sounds like you are actively trying to figure out what you want to do. Look at the prereqs for any program (NP, PA and MD) that you are interested in and hopefully there are some common courses so you can start ASAP but wouldn't be wasting your time if you decide any one of those routes. Start volunteering now in something healthcare related. Not stocking or filing. Interact with patients and healthcare providers.

Also, healthcare is a VERY broad field. You don't have to pinpoint the exact role you want but until you know the general niche that calls to you or why you are interested, it's going to be difficult to decide which path suits best. I fell in love with hospice/palliative care...and making a difference in that small part of medicine became important enough to sacrifice the other things. Had that not happened maybe I would have stuck with the nursing route. Nothing on this forum will tell you what is in your heart like @Goro asked earlier in this thread. Only experience will do that.

 

[2Pints]

Darn you @Nasrudin . I'm now listening to R Kelly.

 

[Danbo1957]

Don't go for an MD at 32, not nursing either, go for the PA-- perfect. As far as children go, you're gonna' need sperm from someone: better make sure he's the "right guy", or a completely anonymous donor, or a drifter.

 

[wdwrn]

OP, read your post but didn't read all responses so sorry if I'm not following the theme, or repeating someone else's advice. Here are my .02:

I am currently an RN (BSN, two Bachelor's) and starting back to school in the spring for my prereqs for med school. I have wanted to do the med school thing since I was 20, and it never seemed to make financial/economic sense to me for my life. I also was in a long-term relationship (until recently) and my SO wasn't really on board with the whole idea. Med school has always been the dream, it's just been deferred. I recently went through a lot of self-digging and finally made the decision. A lot of people asked, why not NP or DNP, this seems obvious for me since I'm already licensed. I go also go back to school PT and work FT, barely have any debt, and still be done in 3 years from now. Seems logical (even more since I likely want to do primary care/internal med).

Why am I not? First, this is JUST my opinion - not to offend anyone or say there's not great NPs out there, bc there are - but I personally believe if someone is going to be a diagnostician and prescribe, they should study the human body at a cellular level. AKA, they should learn through the medical model, not the nursing model. I will never fully believe in my practice if I was to go the DNP/NP route. I think I'd be great at it, but it's not what I want to do. I would regret forever not going for medicine. PA school also was a huge contemplation, and I still wish that this is what I'd be happy with. I respect PAs, they learn the medical model, and have flexibility and got over their egos and are making a huge difference still. However, it's still not what I want.

This all comes from my personal beliefs though. I am like you, nearing 30 and single with no commitments. I do not want kids though, so this was a big reason for me to decide the med school thing. If I wanted to have kids, I'd assume a lot of my self-worth and happiness would be from being a mother...so I'd totally do the PA thing as far as career. I think that'd be great. That's what I'm recommending for you. It does not sound like you'd be happy at some point during the long road of med school/residency/etc. It is a long, grueling, and somewhat selfish one.

However, troll these boards with a grain of salt. Only you know you. I'd sit and look at yourself long and hard one day for some hours in a coffee shop or a park or something. Seriously haha - this is what helped me. Look at your ideal life in 2 years, 5, 10. No one can predict what will happen of course, but having things to reach for and knowing what you ideally want doesn't hurt. Vision things and go with your gut.

 

[achtungkatie]

@Danbo1957 --I was with you till the "drifter" comment.

@Nasrudin--LOL that was great. Thanks for sharing.

@TriNurse, thanks for the thorough response. Hearing from an RN is great. I have actually already taken most of the "overlapping" prereqs (and running out of undergrad loans, to boot) which is why I'm coming up hard on this decision. However, while I know no shortage of doctors personally, I know jack squat as far as nurses; I definitely need to shadow more. At the moment the 3 aspects of medicine that excite me the most are epidemiology/infectious disease (I have always been that kid FASCINATED with gory, horrifying illness), emergency medicine (I know an ED doc in the Bay Area, and she loves her job & her quality of life, and her stories fascinated/intrigued me), and public health (kiiind of as it relates to infectious disease, but also simply because I have, working at the level of food service payscale, seen so many people needlessly ill and suffering or misinformed about health care issues as to be deeply and viciously upset about it). Nursing would be great for public health, but from what I can tell for infectious disease & ED, med school is where it's at.

 

[achtungkatie]

OP, read your post but didn't read all responses so sorry if I'm not following the theme, or repeating someone else's advice. Here are my .02:

I am currently an RN (BSN, two Bachelor's) and starting back to school in the spring for my prereqs for med school. I have wanted to do the med school thing since I was 20, and it never seemed to make financial/economic sense to me for my life. I also was in a long-term relationship (until recently) and my SO wasn't really on board with the whole idea. Med school has always been the dream, it's just been deferred. I recently went through a lot of self-digging and finally made the decision. A lot of people asked, why not NP or DNP, this seems obvious for me since I'm already licensed. I go also go back to school PT and work FT, barely have any debt, and still be done in 3 years from now. Seems logical (even more since I likely want to do primary care/internal med).

Why am I not? First, this is JUST my opinion - not to offend anyone or say there's not great NPs out there, bc there are - but I personally believe if someone is going to be a diagnostician and prescribe, they should study the human body at a cellular level. AKA, they should learn through the medical model, not the nursing model. I will never fully believe in my practice if I was to go the DNP/NP route. I think I'd be great at it, but it's not what I want to do. I would regret forever not going for medicine. PA school also was a huge contemplation, and I still wish that this is what I'd be happy with. I respect PAs, they learn the medical model, and have flexibility and got over their egos and are making a huge difference still. However, it's still not what I want.

This all comes from my personal beliefs though. I am like you, nearing 30 and single with no commitments. I do not want kids though, so this was a big reason for me to decide the med school thing. If I wanted to have kids, I'd assume a lot of my self-worth and happiness would be from being a mother...so I'd totally do the PA thing as far as career. I think that'd be great. That's what I'm recommending for you. It does not sound like you'd be happy at some point during the long road of med school/residency/etc. It is a long, grueling, and somewhat selfish one.

However, troll these boards with a grain of salt. Only you know you. I'd sit and look at yourself long and hard one day for some hours in a coffee shop or a park or something. Seriously haha - this is what helped me. Look at your ideal life in 2 years, 5, 10. No one can predict what will happen of course, but having things to reach for and knowing what you ideally want doesn't hurt. Vision things and go with your gut.

Thank you SO MUCH for your response. It's great to hear from someone in a position similar to mine. I honestly sometimes wish I DIDN'T want kids; there's so many other things I am interested in doing with my life (traveling, writing a novel, living in a lot of different places) that I think I'd be a lot happier if I didn't have this completely obnoxious and burning desire to have children, because these things don't all go that great together. If I didn't want kids, I think I'd probably have already made the decision you've made right now, which is sort of telling. (Okay, very telling.) I'll have to have a come-to-Jesus prayer meeting with myself, it seems, and maybe do a bunch more shadowing. Thanks again!

 

[kthxbai]

What does your heart tell you?

BTW, my mom was a single mom. Being the child of a single mom is no picnic...it left scars. I find your attitude to be selfish. A child needs two parents.

Re: single mom

I'm with @Goro on this. Being a single mom is often an unfortunate circumstance that can't be helped, but choosing to do so shows a lack of perspective. You need to understand that with your debt load, lack of support system (parents aren't solid enough), and uncertain future, you have no business blending children into this mix. Please, consider the choice you're making not only for yourself, but also for your future kid(s).

Re: career
I would shadow a PA, an NP, and a doctor (MD and DO for good measure). Ask these people honest questions about their career satisfaction and work-life balance, and go from there.

Perhaps post this thread in the allo forums to hear from med students and doctors too rather than pre-meds?

 

[achtungkatie]

Re: single mom

I'm with @Goro on this. Being a single mom is often an unfortunate circumstance that can't be helped, but choosing to do so shows a lack of perspective. You need to understand that with your debt load, lack of support system (parents aren't solid enough), and uncertain future, you have no business blending children into this mix. Please, consider the choice you're making not only for yourself, but also for your future kid(s).

Can I please ask for you to clarify what you mean? If your post was meant to say, "I think medical school would be a bad idea for you if kids are more important to you than med school, here's some of my related experiences" then I welcome your feedback and appreciate you taking the time to comment. Saying, "I think that the idea of having children as a single woman makes you immature and irresponsible" is neither topical nor up for debate. I will also ask kindly for you to please not insult the fantastic mother of one of my best friends, who---at 40, single, and with a strong career, chose to have a child by herself--is one of my favorite people and biggest inspirations, and someone I could see myself ending up like, no matter what career I choose.

 

[achtungkatie]

Re: career
I would shadow a PA, an NP, and a doctor (MD and DO for good measure). Ask these people honest questions about their career satisfaction and work-life balance, and go from there.

Perhaps post this thread in the allo forums to hear from med students and doctors too rather than pre-meds?

I hadn't thought to post in the allo forums, to be honest. That's a good idea, thank you for mentioning it. And you're absolutely right that I need to do more shadowing.

 

[keitaiKT]

So I started medical school at 28, like many non-trads, coming from a completely non-scientific background. I also started not long after coming out of a long-term relationship, so newly single and no children. Of course everyone's story is more complicated than it seems on the surface, but the reasons why I didn't pursue medicine and eventually decided to go for it in the end seem similar to your reasons.

I just finished residency and am now 36. So I'm more or less where you would be in 8 years if you decide to go the MD route. I will start by saying that what you suspected is totally true: pursuing this career meant nothing but sacrifices. While in medical school and residency, all my college friends were getting married, buying houses, and having kids, while I felt like I was stuck in stasis. As a nontrad who was a lot older than her classmates, and then later her residency-mates, dating was very tough. It wasn't until well into residency when my schedule got a lot lighter that I had the chance to date like a normal person, and managed to meet my fiance (outside of medicine). I missed out on countless family/friend trips, weddings, birthdays and holidays. Training was hard on my body too - late nights studying, then late nights on call, skipping exercise due to lack of time, junk food because I didn't have time to cook, too much caffeine. I even had to move to a totally different part of the country for residency that took me away from my friends and family due to the vagaries of the match.

So if I had to do it over, would I have done it differently, or not at all? Truly, no. If I could go back and tell my 28 year-old self whether to do it or not, I would still tell myself it was the right choice. I love the profession I chose, the challenges I have had to overcome, and how this field has made me grow and evolve as a person. I love my patients, and I love feeling like I can affect their lives in a meaningful way. I can't imagine another job out there that I would enjoy more. Would I at least have thought a little bit harder about going the NP or PA route if I had to do it again? Definitely, yes. Their training is shorter, less debt going into it, and wages that are comparable to what a lot of younger physicians' salaries I'm seeing are, although I acknowledge this is extremely variable and dependent on the type of MD (specialty, academic v community, location) and the type of PA/NP. I think I could have been happy as a PA or NP. Of course, I can certainly see how some people wouldn't, dependent on personality. I am certainly not sorry I chose to go to the MD route, though.

Good luck on making this decision! You can make all the pro and con lists you want, but in the end, it really comes down to what your gut tells you. I agree with shadowing in hospitals and clinics - if you love it, that's a good sign. If you hate it, that's a red flag. Please feel free to PM me if you have more questions. I really would love to help.

 

[achtungkatie]

So I started medical school at 28, like many non-trads, coming from a completely non-scientific background. I also started not long after coming out of a long-term relationship, so newly single and no children. Of course everyone's story is more complicated than it seems on the surface, but the reasons why I didn't pursue medicine and eventually decided to go for it in the end seem similar to your reasons.

I just finished residency and am now 36. So I'm more or less where you would be in 8 years if you decide to go the MD route. I will start by saying that what you suspected is totally true: pursuing this career meant nothing but sacrifices. While in medical school and residency, all my college friends were getting married, buying houses, and having kids, while I felt like I was stuck in stasis. As a nontrad who was a lot older than her classmates, and then later her residency-mates, dating was very tough. It wasn't until well into residency when my schedule got a lot lighter that I had the chance to date like a normal person, and managed to meet my fiance (outside of medicine). I missed out on countless family/friend trips, weddings, birthdays and holidays. Training was hard on my body too - late nights studying, then late nights on call, skipping exercise due to lack of time, junk food because I didn't have time to cook, too much caffeine. I even had to move to a totally different part of the country for residency that took me away from my friends and family due to the vagaries of the match.

So if I had to do it over, would I have done it differently, or not at all? Truly, no. If I could go back and tell my 28 year-old self whether to do it or not, I would still tell myself it was the right choice. I love the profession I chose, the challenges I have had to overcome, and how this field has made me grow and evolve as a person. I love my patients, and I love feeling like I can affect their lives in a meaningful way. I can't imagine another job out there that I would enjoy more. Would I at least have thought a little bit harder about going the NP or PA route if I had to do it again? Definitely, yes. Their training is shorter, less debt going into it, and wages that are comparable to what a lot of younger physicians' salaries I'm seeing are, although I acknowledge this is extremely variable and dependent on the type of MD (specialty, academic v community, location) and the type of PA/NP. I think I could have been happy as a PA or NP. Of course, I can certainly see how some people wouldn't, dependent on personality. I am certainly not sorry I chose to go to the MD route, though.

Good luck on making this decision! You can make all the pro and con lists you want, but in the end, it really comes down to what your gut tells you. I agree with shadowing in hospitals and clinics - if you love it, that's a good sign. If you hate it, that's a red flag. Please feel free to PM me if you have more questions. I really would love to help.

Thanks for giving me such a great in-depth response. Your feedback is seriously a huge help. I will go ahead and PM you, since you invited me to do so, and THANK YOU for the food for thought.

 

[QofQuimica]

I hadn't thought to post in the allo forums, to be honest. That's a good idea, thank you for mentioning it. And you're absolutely right that I need to do more shadowing.

No, please don't do that. As a premed, you should be posting your questions in the premed forums. There are med students/residents/attendings who read and respond to questions here, just as we are. The allo forum is intended to be a place for current med students to discuss issues pertaining to them, not for premeds to ask for advice.

I do agree that more shadowing sounds like a good first next step for you. But I hope you'll give some thought to making more effort to meet some eligible bachelors too. Like I said above, no reason you can't have both a family (including a husband) and a career.

 

[edgerock24]

I'd recommend PA or NP for OP. People who want to become physicians need to be able to put ideas such as having children to the side in order to successfully get into and finish medical school.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm sorry that your childhood left scars. Thank you for weighing in. I don't happen to feel that my attitude is selfish, but without providing a wealth of background information about my personal life and choices, it is easy to see why you would think that. The flip side of the coin is that I am here asking how bad of an idea this is precisely BECAUSE I want to be a good parent, as opposed to the kind who would sacrifice my child's welfare. Thank you all the same.

Being raised by a single mother is a pretty painful thing for many children, for reasons that I find difficult to articulate myself having gone through it. My oldest childhood memories are just me going from babysitter to babysitter and grandparent to grandparent wondering why my mother wasn't around like the ones on TV and my father never bothered to so much as wish me a happy birthday once he was out of the picture. I was fortunate to later have a wonderful stepfather, but it definitely affected me emotionally for many years, as such things occurring during a critical portion of your childhood tend to do. I basically felt guilty just for existing, like a burden on everyone around me. My mother had no choice in the matter though- staying with my father was out of the question for many reasons, he was a disaster of a person in ways she couldn't see when she married him.

If she'd just made the choice to have a child knowing she couldn't be there, I'd probably hate her for what I had to go through. And I can't even imagine how much the whole never having a father thing would have compounded my emotional struggle with not knowing my father. Probably would have messed me up way worse. The point of this whole rant is that, from the perspective of a person who lived through being a child of the situation you are contemplating, I would consider your idea selfish, because you are putting your desire for a career ahead of the very likely profound emotional damage your child will go through.

 

[achtungkatie]

Being raised by a single mother is a pretty painful thing for many children, for reasons that I find difficult to articulate myself having gone through it. My oldest childhood memories are just me going from babysitter to babysitter and grandparent to grandparent wondering why my mother wasn't around like the ones on TV and my father never bothered to so much as wish me a happy birthday once he was out of the picture. I was fortunate to later have a wonderful stepfather, but it definitely affected me emotionally for many years, as such things occurring during a critical portion of your childhood tend to do. I basically felt guilty just for existing, like a burden on everyone around me. My mother had no choice in the matter though- staying with my father was out of the question for many reasons, he was a disaster of a person in ways she couldn't see when she married him.

If she'd just made the choice to have a child knowing she couldn't be there, I'd probably hate her for what I had to go through. And I can't even imagine how much the whole never having a father thing would have compounded my emotional struggle with not knowing my father. Probably would have messed me up way worse. The point of this whole rant is that, from the perspective of a person who lived through being a child of the situation you are contemplating, I would consider your idea selfish, because you are putting your desire for a career ahead of the very likely profound emotional damage your child will go through.

Thanks for the reply. Reading over my initial post now, I think I phrased at least part of my question VERY poorly, and should really probably have asked, "If I want kids this bad, and there's no spouse on the horizon at the moment, should I even CONSIDER medical school, or should I focus on other careers?" I do appreciate the time you took to give me feedback on this subject. As I mentioned to a poster above, I do personally have a good friend who was also raised by a single mother, but I'm starting to realize how unique her situation was.

 

[achtungkatie]

I'd recommend PA or NP for OP. People who want to become physicians need to be able to put ideas such as having children to the side in order to successfully get into and finish medical school.

Thanks for your input, @edgerock24 .