regenerative medicine, stem cells

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ctts

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Anyone out there doing this? Any recommendations as far as which company's product to use? We are in the early planning stages, but were considering offering this as an option... We have looked at two companies, Regenexx and Celling. Regenexx is a little more difficult from a business standpoint because of the inital upfront costs, so we may start with Celling, and if things go well, maybe transition to Regenexx. I realize that there are many skeptics (myself included), but any constructive input would be greatly appreciated.
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Pacman27 said:
This guys has a huge bill board and claims good success

http://www.dontoperate.com/slider-item/dont-operate-regenerate/
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From the website:

What types of problems can be treated with this regenerative procedure?
The main application of this regenerative treatment is for degenerative disc disease and chronic damage to tendons and ligaments. But, it can also be used to treat chronic bursitis, avascular necrosis of the bone, and disc bulges of the spine.

Does insurance cover this regenerative treatment?
No. At the present time our regenerative procedure is not covered by Medicare or private health insurance companies.
 
Haven't used stem cells...yet. We have done a few test procedures with PRP and so far we are 4/4 in positive outcomes. The "positive" was to the point that these patients are recommending their friends (keep in mind these are rural, low-income patients - even with the cash cost (only cost of unit- no markup), they still would highly suggest it to others). We were cautious about integrating PRP (and stem cells) into our practice but after our first patient's overwhelmingly positive feedback, we will proceed forward to get more data.

The same company we use also offer a stem cell option (bone marrow) but we are not quite there yet. Probably 2 months out with first patients.

We've already submitted an IRB - randomized controlled study for PRP and stem cells at our clinic. We wanted to get our own direct data on these two treatment options in a randomized setting since there is such limited out there right now. Hopefully we can get these published in the next year or two.
 
Ive been using prp for a few years for tendonopathies and atrthropathies with usually very impressive outcomes. Theses are usually very treatment resistant tendonopathies, btw.

Ive been using placental stem cell injections for same indications for about a year with similar results. Im not sure it is woth the added cost, and my n is low.

The prp literature is good enough on epicondylitis and knee oa.

It is by far my only tool, and is a small part of the business. Im frank with the patients regarding the dearth of literature.
 
Forget stem cells and PRP. Use Amniofix. In my opinion, Amniofix will replace steroid for most injections. I have been very impressed.
 
bedrock said:
tell us about it and your experience so far
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Well, I tend to be too optomistic so perhaps my statement was a little strong. Evidence for efficacy is lacking. The one study on plantar fasciitis showed good results.

But let me tell the story this way. The product is very good at regeneration with respects to wounds. That is very clear. The other published things on the product are small, or case -reportish, but show very good results. The whole idea of placental products is not new and the regenerative properties of these things are well known.

There is thought that the dehydrated amnion/chorion not only has a slew of a great mix of chemicals, it likely stimulates and recruites the bodies own stem cells. That seems pretty cool.

I have seen some really great pictures of the product used in many places (face after surgery with excellent healing, healing of pterygium, prevention of scar in many different bodily areas). The use of the product has been wide spread (as far as application and body parts).

Now, for my experience. I have injected Amniofix for psuedoarticulation pain, pubic symphasis, and epidurally after a RACZ procedure. I have also injected it around many tendons (bicep, rotator cuff, hamstring), and one case of plantar fasciitis. It worked well in one case of psuedoarticulation, made the pubic symphasis guy worse, didn't help after RACZ. Mixed results after tendon injection with some phenomanal results (complete resolution of pain), and some with no benefit. The plantar fasci injection didn't do well - but may have been my technique.

I have heard of people in town getting cash payments for intra-articular and peri-tendon injections. One group is combining it with stem cells (retrieved with liposuction and centerfuge) and charging $8k - and patients are paying for it.

It certainly has regenerative potential. The most recent animal study showed that it prevented degeneration in a knee (that had artificially induced damage) and caused no damage to a normal knee.
 
i would like a free consultation. is there a place i can schedule it?
 
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Not sure id want to use amniofix, but I'm curious to hear about it. What if your results were just from dry needling? Would like to see the results of your IRB.
 
I had a poor lady with chronic SIJ pain who responded well temporarily to SIJ injections who I then offered an RFA to. She instead went to some stem cell/regenerative guy in town and paid ~$8k for stem cell injections into her sacrum!!! She wanted to give it 6 mos to work and said she'd come back if it didn't. I couldn't believe she was going to pay that much out of pocket for that before considering RFA!!! Stem cell stuff is hot right now and patients love the idea of it. And I'll agree, regeneration sounds a lot better than ablation, but seriously we've got a lot more evidence for the latter in this particular situation. I guess we'll see if she comes back...
 
clubdeac said:
I had a poor lady with chronic SIJ pain who responded well temporarily to SIJ injections who I then offered an RFA to. She instead went to some stem cell/regenerative guy in town and paid ~$8k for stem cell injections into her sacrum!!! She wanted to give it 6 mos to work and said she'd come back if it didn't. I couldn't believe she was going to pay that much out of pocket for that before considering RFA!!! Stem cell stuff is hot right now and patients love the idea of it. And I'll agree, regeneration sounds a lot better than ablation, but seriously we've got a lot more evidence for the latter in this particular situation. I guess we'll see if she comes back...
Click to expand...

She will be back in 75 days. It takes that long for plabo effect to wear off and then 2 weeks to get on your schedule.
 
Send me your patients guys, since it doesn't work for you. Some of my successes....I've done a nonunion scapular fracture that wouldn't heal for 12 months, AVN of the hip, SI joint DJD, and the usual knees, shoulders, L and C spines. Seems like Laser Spine Institute is doing it intradiskally......I'm pissed I didn't start doing disks first.
 
clubdeac said:
I had a poor lady with chronic SIJ pain who responded well temporarily to SIJ injections who I then offered an RFA to. She instead went to some stem cell/regenerative guy in town and paid ~$8k for stem cell injections into her sacrum!!! She wanted to give it 6 mos to work and said she'd come back if it didn't. I couldn't believe she was going to pay that much out of pocket for that before considering RFA!!! Stem cell stuff is hot right now and patients love the idea of it. And I'll agree, regeneration sounds a lot better than ablation, but seriously we've got a lot more evidence for the latter in this particular situation. I guess we'll see if she comes back...
Click to expand...

Not into the sacrum you dolt......into the joint.
 
Does anyone know of an expert researcher or someone who has vast knowledge performing stem cell therapy specifically intradiscal ? Im doing my grand rounds at our annual pain symposium on it and want to fly in an expert that can be my discussant. I appreciate the feedback
 
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