Rethinking medical school

[BillRoger]

So I recently graduated with my bachelors in may, and while I was pre-med in college I have recently started to think it might not be for me. I've gotten interested in research in college, and I am currently working as a research assistant. I guess I'm interested in a career that would allow me to do a little bit of research while also having the reward of helping others...and I'm not sure if I'm good enough to do a MD/PhD heh.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else changed their plans at the last second? If they regretted it later or not? I feel like I'm kind of in a bind because I got accepted to a DO school...and I don't want to pass up an opportunity like that unless I'm sure it's not right for me.

Thanks for the help,

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[jvesco22]

Would you have preferred an MD acceptance?

It seems like you got into DO on a whim and you're not sure whether or not you want to proceed with it.

I get the feeling that if you had an MD acceptance, you wouldn't have made this thread. just my opinion lol

You can still do research while/after you pursue med school and it would probably open up your biggest door in the research field anyway.

 

[millepora]

That is one of the reasons why medical schools want people to do research, because people come to that conclusion all the time.

 

[CoffeeCzar]

After medical school, you can still participate in research. You don't have to have a PhD to do research part-time. In fact, an MD/PhD is more for students who mostly want to do research.

My advice: get your DO and do research on the side in the area that you would like to practice in as well. I know plenty of physicians who do this.

 

[J ROD]

After medical school, you can still participate in research. You don't have to have a PhD to do research part-time. In fact, an MD/PhD is more for students who mostly want to do research.

My advice: get your DO and do research on the side in the area that you would like to practice in as well. I know plenty of physicians who do this.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Alternatively, there are those of us that would rather sacrafice a couple of fingers than engage in professional research.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Alternatively, there are those of us that would rather sacrafice a couple of fingers than engage in professional research.

Or research of any type, for that matter. I agree with the above, though. Get your DO and research in the field(s) you enjoy.

 

[BillRoger]

Thanks for the advice.

I don't think I'd be thinking about this differently if I got a MD.

Research as a DO does sound interesting. Does anyone know if you usually have to do your residency if you just want to do research?

 

[Analog]

Thanks for the advice.

I don't think I'd be thinking about this differently if I got a MD.

Research as a DO does sound interesting. Does anyone know if you usually have to do your residency if you just want to do research?

I would still do your residency, get involved with research WHILE you're in med school and find a research friendly specialty like pathology.

You could also check out
http://www.nonclinicaljobs.com/

 

[iMD]

dont be blinded like some of these pre-meds about becoming a doctor. it's not so great that you'd be willing to sacrifice your time and soul if youre more interested in research.

my advice: get into a grad school that does research in whatever it is you like. chemistry, bio, biochem, etc graduate programs research many many topics. if you want to help people too, volunteer. youll save yourself a buttload of loans while still giving you that "warm" feeling in your heart.

and those that say "just research after med school" have no idea what they are talking about. you'll be balls deep into debt of ~200k and you wont be able to afford researching, making less than 75k in a research position, and paying back your student loans. MD/PhD are hard to get into, so if youre not a 4.0/36+, dont even bother (however, it's nice because they pay you to go to school but it's most definitely not worth the time, more so than med school in general)

 

[Parts Unknown]

So I recently graduated with my bachelors in may, and while I was pre-med in college I have recently started to think it might not be for me. I've gotten interested in research in college, and I am currently working as a research assistant. I guess I'm interested in a career that would allow me to do a little bit of research while also having the reward of helping others...and I'm not sure if I'm good enough to do a MD/PhD heh.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else changed their plans at the last second? If they regretted it later or not? I feel like I'm kind of in a bind because I got accepted to a DO school...and I don't want to pass up an opportunity like that unless I'm sure it's not right for me.

Thanks for the help,

I got interested in research in college. Science if fun, but somewhere in the middle of my PhD it dawned on me what a modern academic researcher actually does.

You begin with grad school, which pays very low wages and has high attrition. If you finish, on to to postdoc, which isn't exactly a lavish lifestyle. Together expect to spend about 10-12 years at this.

Then you land your first job, an assistant professorship. You get some startup money, open a lab, hire a tech, and try to attract graduate students. While you're not doing this you will write grants. And grants. And grants. Because the rate of funding for R01's these days is about 5-8%. Good luck!

If you are successful, attract money, and grow your lab, you will get pulled into administrative duties. Eventually your lab will be run by your postdocs, who will try to keep you updated on what's going on. You will know your grad students names and have some vague idea what they are working on, but that's about it.

If you are not successful, your money will run out and you will have to find another assistant professorship in a department willing to give you fresh startup money and take a gamble on your next round of grants. I hope the kids didn't mind changing schools again.

Yeah, go to medical school and never, ever look back.

 

[FIREitUP]

I got interested in research in college. Science if fun, but somewhere in the middle of my PhD it dawned on me what a modern academic researcher actually does.

You begin with grad school, which pays very low wages and has high attrition. If you finish, on to to postdoc, which isn't exactly a lavish lifestyle. Together expect to spend about 10-12 years at this.

Then you land your first job, an assistant professorship. You get some startup money, open a lab, hire a tech, and try to attract graduate students. While you're not doing this you will write grants. And grants. And grants. Because the rate of funding for R01's these days is about 5-8%. Good luck!

If you are successful, attract money, and grow your lab, you will get pulled into administrative duties. Eventually your lab will be run by your postdocs, who will try to keep you updated on what's going on. You will know your grad students names and have some vague idea what they are working on, but that's about it.

If you are not successful, your money will run out and you will have to find another assistant professorship in a department willing to give you fresh startup money and take a gamble on your next round of grants. I hope the kids didn't mind changing schools again.

Yeah, go to medical school and never, ever look back.

that's the best insight you can get.

 

[causalinference]

and those that say "just research after med school" have no idea what they are talking about. you'll be balls deep into debt of ~200k and you wont be able to afford researching, making less than 75k in a research position, and paying back your student loans.

A fellowship after residency can provide protected research time to pursue additional research interests, and I'm sure that an attending can find a way to stay involved with research if he or she wants to. Even if it isn't the focal point of his or her career, it can be an important part.

 

[lackli]

I've always liked this "classic" thread where someone asked doctors "if they would do it all over?"

A lot of different professions(research, law, ibanking etc etc) chimed in actually so it might help make up your mind.

My advice to you-if you don't want to be a doctor 100% then don't do it. Med school is hard in a way that no one can understand unless you go through it (hell and i'm only a M1).

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=195799&page=1

 

[sassilysweet]

Another option is to defer for a year (if you aren't already?) and explore other options, put in some applications (if that's what you want to pursue) and do more work in research. Maybe even do more shadowing . You can get a better grounding in the long-run.

 

[BillRoger]

Thanks for all the replies!

Yeah I'll have to admit part of the rethinking is because I was a little daunted by the amount of work med school requires...and I wasn't sure if I'd be in for the long haul. Unfortunately getting a PhD doesn't sound like it has a good job market either...

So I have been thinking about asking to defer for a year...it may be the best bet to rethink everything.

 

[Bacchus]

If the work scares you, don't pursue any doctoral program.

 

[NeuroLove]

I would definitely recommend taking a year to figure out what you want. I am a re-app and, last year, when I wasn't accepted, I thought maybe medicine wasn't for me. But the time/energy I spent researching other career options made me realize how much I actually do want to go to med school. It seems like everyone on this thread has already given you great advice--my only tip is that you should take time to explore all career options that interest you. And to remember that research is definitely possible in med school. Best of luck.

 

[BerlinDude]

I got interested in research in college. Science if fun, but somewhere in the middle of my PhD it dawned on me what a modern academic researcher actually does.

You begin with grad school, which pays very low wages and has high attrition. If you finish, on to to postdoc, which isn't exactly a lavish lifestyle. Together expect to spend about 10-12 years at this.

Then you land your first job, an assistant professorship. You get some startup money, open a lab, hire a tech, and try to attract graduate students. While you're not doing this you will write grants. And grants. And grants. Because the rate of funding for R01's these days is about 5-8%. Good luck!

If you are successful, attract money, and grow your lab, you will get pulled into administrative duties. Eventually your lab will be run by your postdocs, who will try to keep you updated on what's going on. You will know your grad students names and have some vague idea what they are working on, but that's about it.

If you are not successful, your money will run out and you will have to find another assistant professorship in a department willing to give you fresh startup money and take a gamble on your next round of grants. I hope the kids didn't mind changing schools again.

Yeah, go to medical school and never, ever look back.

Yeah begin with medical school, where you will pay 40K a year in tuition for four years. You will be studying non-stop, except when you are doing clinical rotations and being everybody's b!tch.

If you finish, on to residency and fellowship, which isn't exactly a lavish lifestyle. Together expect to spend about 10-12 years at this.

Then you land your first job, a beginning physician. You get some startup loans, open a practice, hire an assistant, and try to attract patients. While you're not doing this you will fill forms. And forms. And forms. Good luck!

If you are successful, attract patients, and grow your practice, you will get pulled into trivial duties. Eventually your practice will be run by your nurses and assistants, who will try to keep you updated on what's going on. You will know your patient's names and have some vague idea what they are suffering from, but that's about it.

Or you can just do what you love, and not worry about the universal aspects of any competitive job, like the length of training, or what paperwork you'll have to fill out, or the hard work you have to put in, or the possibility of failure, or any of that stuff.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Yeah begin with medical school, where you will pay 40K a year in tuition for four years. You will be studying non-stop, except when you are doing clinical rotations and being everybody's b!tch.

If you finish, on to residency and fellowship, which isn't exactly a lavish lifestyle. Together expect to spend about 10-12 years at this.

Then you land your first job, a beginning physician. You get some startup loans, open a practice, hire an assistant, and try to attract patients. While you're not doing this you will fill forms. And forms. And forms. Good luck!

If you are successful, attract patients, and grow your practice, you will get pulled into trivial duties. Eventually your practice will be run by your nurses and assistants, who will try to keep you updated on what's going on. You will know your patient's names and have some vague idea what they are suffering from, but that's about it.

Or you can just do what you love, and not worry about the universal aspects of any competitive job, like the length of training, or what paperwork you'll have to fill out, or the hard work you have to put in, or the possibility of failure, or any of that stuff.

Touche.

Both roads are long and hard, no doubt, but being a physician carries an expectation of income, security, and flexibility that PhD researchers don't have. Not even close.

It's natural to have second thoughts before large undertakings: med school, grad school, marriage, purchasing a house, etc. Just try not to confuse that completely normal sensation of last-second cold feet with a fundamental disdain of what you are about to do.

 

[ziggydoc]

To the OP, if you have any doubts about going to med school, you should talk to more students and doctors, it is a long and hard road, and you will prob. feel miserable if you just go into it with a "maybe" attitude. However, I do not think being a researcher is what you will expect either. Honestly, I am very interested in research, and I believe that we are on the brink of some major breakthroughs (I do stem cell research atm). Yet after working in a lab, I have decided to withdraw my application to MD/PhD programs and just do the MD route. Why you ask? Because being a PI (if you are even lucky enough to get there) you don't really do anything other than write grants and review papers, and do other admin stuff that you don't want to do. You can also go into industry, but that is even MORE competitive than academia, and you do not have much job security. I know plenty of MDs that do a lot of research, and does it well, I want to be a physician first, and maybe if I am lucky, I'll do research.

I guess the bottom line is, you need to figure out what you like to do, and go form there, but research is not really whatI expected it to be.

 

[Ditto1114]

OP,

I was in a similar situation. During undergrad, I was pre-med, but I became interested in research. I took a job as a research assistant and found that I enjoyed being in the lab. When I was a senior I decided to apply to Ph.D. programs. Three years into my program I was having major regrets because my passion was in medicine not bench research. If I could go back in time, I would've taken some time off after graduation to figure out what I really wanted in life. My best advice is to go with your heart. You need to take the time to decide what makes you incredibly happy and if three years from now you realize you would rather be doing something else it's not the end of the world. I wish you nothing but the best!

Also, most of the above comments focus on researchers in academia. I just wanted to point out that there are loads of options for Ph.D's outside of the world of academia. Science Magazine has a great section about careers. I highly recommend reading the articles if research seems exciting but working as a professor seems terrible.

http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/

 

[pOrtEnt]

not to waste a post, but I have to say: ! great thread.

 

[mikejep]

I started college thinking of med-school. I did all the prerequisites and got a good GPA. I started working in a lab at my university and thought research was for me. I applied and got accepted to graduate school in my field of interest. I have just started, but looking at the poor job prospects for a PhD I am 95% convinced I will be jumping ship. It simply isn't worth it. I am currently studying to get a pharmD or MD (depending on how MCAT goes ). I HATE the choices I have made. Stick with the MD. Or at least be very positive that you want to do what you do.

 

[Parts Unknown]

I started college thinking of med-school. I did all the prerequisites and got a good GPA. I started working in a lab at my university and thought research was for me. I applied and got accepted to graduate school in my field of interest. I have just started, but looking at the poor job prospects for a PhD I am 95% convinced I will be jumping ship. It simply isn't worth it. I am currently studying to get a pharmD or MD (depending on how MCAT goes ). I HATE the choices I have made.

The silver lining is that you have now glimpsed other pastures, you realize how hard they suck, and if you make it into med school or pharm school you will have a newfound appreciation for your career.

 

[BillRoger]

Thanks for all the advice...it's a lot to think about. I also thought about PA school in the past, and more recently. I feel it would allow me to pursue outside interests as well since this is something I'm worried about with med school...The only problem is I don't have all the pre-reqs and experience PA schools look for. It also wouldn't give me research opportunities...

Has anyone changed their mind from MD to PA?

 

[jvesco22]

Thanks for all the advice...it's a lot to think about. I also thought about PA school in the past, and more recently. I feel it would allow me to pursue outside interests as well since this is something I'm worried about with med school...The only problem is I don't have all the pre-reqs and experience PA schools look for. It also wouldn't give me research opportunities...

Has anyone changed their mind from MD to PA?

Hmm, Now you are coming off as a troll...

You said that you already have a DO acceptance, so go big or go home.

 

[Laryngophed]

I got interested in research in college. Science if fun, but somewhere in the middle of my PhD it dawned on me what a modern academic researcher actually does.

You begin with grad school, which pays very low wages and has high attrition. If you finish, on to to postdoc, which isn't exactly a lavish lifestyle. Together expect to spend about 10-12 years at this.

Then you land your first job, an assistant professorship. You get some startup money, open a lab, hire a tech, and try to attract graduate students. While you're not doing this you will write grants. And grants. And grants. Because the rate of funding for R01's these days is about 5-8%. Good luck!

If you are successful, attract money, and grow your lab, you will get pulled into administrative duties. Eventually your lab will be run by your postdocs, who will try to keep you updated on what's going on. You will know your grad students names and have some vague idea what they are working on, but that's about it.

If you are not successful, your money will run out and you will have to find another assistant professorship in a department willing to give you fresh startup money and take a gamble on your next round of grants. I hope the kids didn't mind changing schools again.

Yeah, go to medical school and never, ever look back.

Yep, this is it in a nutshell. Though I think iMD might be a little conservative with his(/her?) R01 funding %ages, but overall, this is it. Very few really successful (read has the money to have more than a tech and Spec-T in the lab) have the time to actually do experiments themselves. They write grants, lecture to grad students who don't give a crap because class takes away from research time and read so they come up with the next project they are going to bestow on someone in their lab.

Once I get my MS, I'll never do basic science research again and I'll probably do everything in my power to not do clinical research as well. Now, I just have to figure out a way to get an academic center to hire me and let me teach and treat anyway.

 

[BerlinDude]

Touche.

Both roads are long and hard, no doubt, but being a physician carries an expectation of income, security, and flexibility that PhD researchers don't have. Not even close.

It's natural to have second thoughts before large undertakings: med school, grad school, marriage, purchasing a house, etc. Just try not to confuse that completely normal sensation of last-second cold feet with a fundamental disdain of what you are about to do.

Is that really true? I think that perception exists largely because there are so many people getting PhDs abroad or from low-tier schools - which aren't that great career-wise. But if you can get into a good MD program, you can get into a good PhD program. With a PhD from a top school, you should be able to get at least six figures working in industry, no? It is true that you probably won't make the same amount as an MD in a competitive specialty, but you won't have all the medical school debt to worry about either and you will have more work flexibility.

Am I wrong about that?

 

[kami333]

Also, most of the above comments focus on researchers in academia. I just wanted to point out that there are loads of options for Ph.D's outside of the world of academia. Science Magazine has a great section about careers. I highly recommend reading the articles if research seems exciting but working as a professor seems terrible.

http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/

I'd rather go back to being a cubicle slave than work (long-term) in industry in research.

 

[Eyti]

.

 

[futureboy]

Thanks for all the advice...it's a lot to think about. I also thought about PA school in the past, and more recently. I feel it would allow me to pursue outside interests as well since this is something I'm worried about with med school...The only problem is I don't have all the pre-reqs and experience PA schools look for. It also wouldn't give me research opportunities...

Has anyone changed their mind from MD to PA?

It is interesting that your undergraduate coursework is sufficient for medical school admission but is NOT sufficient for PA school admission. If you factor in the time needed to get the additional PA prereqs, you probably would only finish a few years sooner than if you go to medical school. That, combined with the lack of research opportunity with PA, makes med school the clear choice between the two.

 

[BillRoger]

Thanks for all the advice again...

Heh, I didn't mean to come off sounding like a troll!

As for the pre-reqs, I'm only missing Anatomy for the most part...I regret not taking it now.

 

[strang3Gonz0]

I got interested in research in college. Science if fun, but somewhere in the middle of my PhD it dawned on me what a modern academic researcher actually does.

You begin with grad school, which pays very low wages and has high attrition. If you finish, on to to postdoc, which isn't exactly a lavish lifestyle. Together expect to spend about 10-12 years at this.

Then you land your first job, an assistant professorship. You get some startup money, open a lab, hire a tech, and try to attract graduate students. While you're not doing this you will write grants. And grants. And grants. Because the rate of funding for R01's these days is about 5-8%. Good luck!

If you are successful, attract money, and grow your lab, you will get pulled into administrative duties. Eventually your lab will be run by your postdocs, who will try to keep you updated on what's going on. You will know your grad students names and have some vague idea what they are working on, but that's about it.

If you are not successful, your money will run out and you will have to find another assistant professorship in a department willing to give you fresh startup money and take a gamble on your next round of grants. I hope the kids didn't mind changing schools again.

Yeah, go to medical school and never, ever look back.

I know 110 people already replied, but I went through the same exact situation. Started pre-med, got into research and reconsidered med school. I actually had a spot in a PhD program with a well known researcher in my research field that includes a very nice financial package. I thought it would be crazy to pay 30k+ a year for med school when I could be getting paid that much to do PhD work! Then I realized everything above said by Parts Unknown and decided grad school would be a horrible choice for me. It's kind of hard to figure out what you want to do for the rest of your life when you're in your 20's, which I think is the cause of uncertainty or hesitance most of us feel whether we admit it or not.

 

[dienekes88]

So I recently graduated with my bachelors in may, and while I was pre-med in college I have recently started to think it might not be for me. I've gotten interested in research in college, and I am currently working as a research assistant. I guess I'm interested in a career that would allow me to do a little bit of research while also having the reward of helping others...and I'm not sure if I'm good enough to do a MD/PhD heh.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else changed their plans at the last second? If they regretted it later or not? I feel like I'm kind of in a bind because I got accepted to a DO school...and I don't want to pass up an opportunity like that unless I'm sure it's not right for me.

Thanks for the help,

Err... don't do it if you don't want to do it. It's a big investment (time + money) with a large opportunity cost.

I like it, though.

 

[utmdstudent]

After medical school, you can still participate in research. You don't have to have a PhD to do research part-time. In fact, an MD/PhD is more for students who mostly want to do research.

My advice: get your DO and do research on the side in the area that you would like to practice in as well. I know plenty of physicians who do this.

i second this. i worked with a DO last week who does research on the side at his own clinic. he seemed very satisfied.

 

[cah87]

and those that say "just research after med school" have no idea what they are talking about. you'll be balls deep into debt of ~200k and you wont be able to afford researching, making less than 75k in a research position, and paying back your student loans.

Not that I completely disagree with your other reasons, but you can get 35k per year loan repayment for doing 20 hours a week of research. Your debt just has to be over 20% of your institutional base salary. This could be done during a fellowship where you are already doing research or a career in academic medicine.

http://www.lrp.nih.gov/

 

[Parts Unknown]

Is that really true? I think that perception exists largely because there are so many people getting PhDs abroad or from low-tier schools - which aren't that great career-wise. But if you can get into a good MD program, you can get into a good PhD program. With a PhD from a top school, you should be able to get at least six figures working in industry, no? It is true that you probably won't make the same amount as an MD in a competitive specialty, but you won't have all the medical school debt to worry about either and you will have more work flexibility.

Am I wrong about that?

As with anything, there are a few people in each biomedical research subfield who can command big dollars and relocate at will.

However, the chronic overproduction of PhDs also means there are teeming hordes of less established folk (many with strong pedigrees) fighting over a scarcity of jobs. And for any particular subfield there will likely only be a few areas of the country that have significant industry activity. One could analogize Silicon Valley and tech startups.

When you consider that an FP resident can start at six figures virtually anywhere in the country, even with educational debt that doesn't look like such a bad deal.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Yep, this is it in a nutshell. Though I think iMD might be a little conservative with his(/her?) R01 funding %ages, but overall, this is it.

R01 funding may have bumped since the stimulus, which threw and extra $10 billion at NIH (thanks, Arlen Specter!), but to my knowledge they had crept below 8% as of two years ago.

 

[Aladdin]

So I recently graduated with my bachelors in may, and while I was pre-med in college I have recently started to think it might not be for me. I've gotten interested in research in college, and I am currently working as a research assistant. I guess I'm interested in a career that would allow me to do a little bit of research while also having the reward of helping others...and I'm not sure if I'm good enough to do a MD/PhD heh.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else changed their plans at the last second? If they regretted it later or not? I feel like I'm kind of in a bind because I got accepted to a DO school...and I don't want to pass up an opportunity like that unless I'm sure it's not right for me.

Thanks for the help,

If you are rethinking medical school before you even start medical school, you are on the wrong path...