RVUCOM vs. Western COMP Pomona (2015-2016)

[HSR]

I've been accepted to both schools and have begun making a pros/cons list for each school, but I'm still a bit unsure on where my priorities currently lie for choosing a school. Perhaps any other students who are thinking about attending either of these schools can help me discover more pros/cons of each location or help shed light on my current thoughts.

I've read through many of the other "RVUCOM vs X" and "Western vs X" but just want to recreate the thread for 2015/any new additions to either program.

Anyways, here I go:

WESTERN
o Pros

• High likelihood to stay in CA
• Standardized Patient Encounters
• Support group here
• Free cost of living (I live down the street)
• More research opportunities

o Cons

• Didn't like the anatomy lab/campus/location
• Useless classes
• Disjointed student community/school
• Larger class size

o Neutral

• Lots of OMM

ROCKY VISTA
o Pros

• Board-focused curriculum
• Better medical technology (cut suits, ultrasound, anatomy lab)
• No required lecture attendance
• More face-time/familiarity with professors (only DO students + smaller class)
• More cohesive student body

o Cons

• Pay for room and travel costs ($$$)
• Less likelihood to return to CA for residency
• No support system in CO
• Don’t know the reputation of the clinical sites (Denver, CO Springs, Pueblo)
• Didn't get the vibe there was much research available

I guess my uncertainties in Western lie in the complaints that I've heard with some of curriculum courses and how it can be a bit wasteful for students time (small groups, IPE, OMM(?) - basically sourced from students comments on SDN). Also, I wish I knew a bit more about how Western prepares student for boards because as interview day went, they made it seem like they're trying to increase these board prep resources (perhaps students/admin/whoever felt they were lacking in this area) but were doing so through more things outside of the curriculum (more time required). I was also wondering if they publish any of the data of their COMLEX scores because I couldn't find it from my initial search.

My major uncertainties with RVUCOM are about the lack of research opportunities that seemed available
and how this would/could affect my competitiveness for getting into a residency/working in CA after medical school. Moving back isn't my biggest priority, but its something that lingers in my mind because all of my family lives here and it'd be nice to end up here. I guess I'm wondering if any current students can help shed light on how likely it is for students to come into CA from out of state (and from RVU, a relatively new school). Also, if I attended RVU, I'd like to do my rotations in CO and I've heard of some sites in Wyoming, NM, and Utah, but I wouldn't want to move out of the state to do so (is it likely that is possible/does it commonly happen?)


Sorry for the long post, but hopefully others can learn more about both schools to help them make decisions.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

RVU

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

RVU for the win. They have a pretty baller match list as far as DO schools go and they will probably only get better. Curriculum is killer but produces great board scores. I haven't heard anything bad about their rotations but other than that I don't know much.

 

[hbslax4]

I've been accepted to both schools and have begun making a pros/cons list for each school, but I'm still a bit unsure on where my priorities currently lie for choosing a school. Perhaps any other students who are thinking about attending either of these schools can help me discover more pros/cons of each location or help shed light on my current thoughts.

I've read through many of the other "RVUCOM vs X" and "Western vs X" but just want to recreate the thread for 2015/any new additions to either program.

Anyways, here I go:

WESTERN
o Pros

• High likelihood to stay in CA
• Standardized Patient Encounters
• Support group here
• Free cost of living (I live down the street)
• More research opportunities

o Cons

• Didn't like the anatomy lab/campus/location
• Useless classes
• Disjointed student community/school
• Larger class size

o Neutral

• Lots of OMM

ROCKY VISTA
o Pros

• Board-focused curriculum
• Better medical technology (cut suits, ultrasound, anatomy lab)
• No required lecture attendance
• More face-time/familiarity with professors (only DO students + smaller class)
• More cohesive student body

o Cons

• Pay for room and travel costs ($$$)
• Less likelihood to return to CA for residency
• No support system in CO
• Don’t know the reputation of the clinical sites (Denver, CO Springs, Pueblo)
• Didn't get the vibe there was much research available

I guess my uncertainties in Western lie in the complaints that I've heard with some of curriculum courses and how it can be a bit wasteful for students time (small groups, IPE, OMM(?) - basically sourced from students comments on SDN). Also, I wish I knew a bit more about how Western prepares student for boards because as interview day went, they made it seem like they're trying to increase these board prep resources (perhaps students/admin/whoever felt they were lacking in this area) but were doing so through more things outside of the curriculum (more time required). I was also wondering if they publish any of the data of their COMLEX scores because I couldn't find it from my initial search.

My major uncertainties with RVUCOM are about the lack of research opportunities that seemed available
and how this would/could affect my competitiveness for getting into a residency/working in CA after medical school. Moving back isn't my biggest priority, but its something that lingers in my mind because all of my family lives here and it'd be nice to end up here. I guess I'm wondering if any current students can help shed light on how likely it is for students to come into CA from out of state (and from RVU, a relatively new school). Also, if I attended RVU, I'd like to do my rotations in CO and I've heard of some sites in Wyoming, NM, and Utah, but I wouldn't want to move out of the state to do so (is it likely that is possible/does it commonly happen?)


Sorry for the long post, but hopefully others can learn more about both schools to help them make decisions.

Just a few notes. You listed SP encounters as a pro for western; at RVU we have about 4 SP encounters each semester. I can't touch on the research too much as I haven't gone down that road yet but from what many second years tell me, there is no lack of readership opportunities in Denver. Yes, research on campus is more limited. As far as rotations go, if you want to stay on Colorado you will be able to do so. You just may have to be willing to be slightly out of Denver (Colorado Springs, Greeley, etc.). With that said, the majority of students do get their first or second choice.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You won't do any research at WesternU, trust me. They know how to waste all your time. The SP encounters are nothing to brag about. Fail one in 3rd year and pay $150 to retake the encounter.

 

[Henry101]

First of all, congratulations for getting accepted to WesternCOMP and RVU. They are both very competitive schools and you should feel very proud for reaching this step.

Now, like you, I also live very close to Western and this is my take.
The 2nd year curriculum at Western is a **** show because it's neither clinically relevant nor Step1 material. Students struggle more than other schools to do well on this exam and most students feel unprepared by the time Sophomore Spring rolls by. There is also a ton of required classes in year2 which doesn't help with finding time to study. I'm sure you have already heard about the required small group/large group nonsense with podiatry students.
I know, during your tour/interview, they took you to the third floor of the HEC and showed you the shiny new laboratories and the nice research posters but, if you looked carefully, all the publications/posters were from the pharmacy students. It's very tough to do research as a COMP student at Western.
However, the largest "Pro" of Western that you didn't mention is the excellent clinical opportunities. If you pull your strings right, you can possibly rotate in some of the largest hospitals in southern California, Riverside County, Arrowhead Regional, and Desert Regional. You're going to see A LOT in these hospitals and, if you're proactive, I've heard writing clinical papers is an option, because of the wide pathology you see. It's unfortunate, however, that Western has done very, very little to secure GME programs in these centers, forcing students that want to specialize out of a county that desperately needs more medical professionals.
Having family in close proximity is a really, really big plus that should not be underestimated and can help you out tremendously. Family can help you with some stuff (like ironing shirts, going to Costco, etc.). That can save hours of time.

I'm usually an advocate against Western COMP also because some of the smartest people in my undergrad have went there and are currently struggling through the dysfunctional curriculum and an administration that is completely obsessed with class expansion. However, in this very particular case, I think Western will be a good fit and, if you're proactive enough and put in the effort, you'll do fine.

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

The fact that you would have free cost of living at WesternU is a huge plus in that category. That will lessen your debt burden substantially.

I found WesternU's anatomy facilities adequate but as you mention nothing too fancy. They seemed to be up to par with most other schools I interviewed at (not familiar with RVU, full disclosure)

I think the 'useless classes' is overemphasized here on SDN. I enjoyed the second year curriculum much more than the first year non-systems based classes. The small group large group format is useful because you will essentially go over the material 3 times if done correctly.

I can't tell you what to choose but faced with a similar choice 4 years ago I chose WesternU and I have been happy with my decision.

 

[jaymac25]

RVU

+1 RVU

 

[oceanman]

The fact that you would have free cost of living at WesternU is a huge plus in that category. That will lessen your debt burden substantially.

I found WesternU's anatomy facilities adequate but as you mention nothing too fancy. They seemed to be up to par with most other schools I interviewed at (not familiar with RVU, full disclosure)

I think the 'useless classes' is overemphasized here on SDN. I enjoyed the second year curriculum much more than the first year non-systems based classes. The small group large group format is useful because you will essentially go over the material 3 times if done correctly.

I can't tell you what to choose but faced with a similar choice 4 years ago I chose WesternU and I have been happy with my decision.

What do you mean by "done correctly?" What do people do wrong?

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

What do you mean by "done correctly?" What do people do wrong?

Lets say tomorrow is small group covering a topic like thyroid cancer. You are given an outline of the topics and discussion questions (epidemiology, pathology, clinical manifestations, treatment, etc) the night before that you should read independantly in Harrison's, Robbins, and uptodate, and other primary sources. You meet in small groups the following day and try to answer the discussion questions and review the material for a second time. During the last hour a quiz on the topic is released and you submit your answers as a group. Later that day or the following day you meet in large group where the preceptor goes over the topic and highlight the important aspects. And just like that you have been exposed to the same material 3 times, once on your own, once in small group discussions, and once more as a large lecture format.

How it often and ineffectively is done is students don't do the individual reading from primary sources ahead of time, then show up to small group late just to answer the quiz questions, and then just wait to attend or watch online the large group essentially as a first full exposure of the material. Small groups also tend to be unpopular because it forces you to come to class and not just watch recorded lecture.

 

[AlteredScale]

moving ssd

 

[EmCEm]

RVU.

 

[Henry101]

I really don't understand this obsession with RVU. It's a new school with a very small OPTI that's already starting another branch campus in a different state. The school should be more concerned about securing GME positions in the state before investing in a new campus.

 

[HSR]

.

 

[HSR]

The fact that you would have free cost of living at WesternU is a huge plus in that category. That will lessen your debt burden substantially.

I found WesternU's anatomy facilities adequate but as you mention nothing too fancy. They seemed to be up to par with most other schools I interviewed at (not familiar with RVU, full disclosure)

I think the 'useless classes' is overemphasized here on SDN. I enjoyed the second year curriculum much more than the first year non-systems based classes. The small group large group format is useful because you will essentially go over the material 3 times if done correctly.

I can't tell you what to choose but faced with a similar choice 4 years ago I chose WesternU and I have been happy with my decision.

Thanks for the information. Can you comment on IPE? (- Another class which other students complain about, even the student ambassador did during the interviews actually). Do you think that you have an adequate amount of free time to participate in research or in any other extra curricular activities that interest you?

 

[HSR]

First of all, congratulations for getting accepted to WesternCOMP and RVU. They are both very competitive schools and you should feel very proud for reaching this step.

Now, like you, I also live very close to Western and this is my take.
The 2nd year curriculum at Western is a **** show because it's neither clinically relevant nor Step1 material. Students struggle more than other schools to do well on this exam and most students feel unprepared by the time Sophomore Spring rolls by. There is also a ton of required classes in year2 which doesn't help with finding time to study. I'm sure you have already heard about the required small group/large group nonsense with podiatry students.
I know, during your tour/interview, they took you to the third floor of the HEC and showed you the shiny new laboratories and the nice research posters but, if you looked carefully, all the publications/posters were from the pharmacy students. It's very tough to do research as a COMP student at Western.
However, the largest "Pro" of Western that you didn't mention is the excellent clinical opportunities. If you pull your strings right, you can possibly rotate in some of the largest hospitals in southern California, Riverside County, Arrowhead Regional, and Desert Regional. You're going to see A LOT in these hospitals and, if you're proactive, I've heard writing clinical papers is an option, because of the wide pathology you see. It's unfortunate, however, that Western has done very, very little to secure GME programs in these centers, forcing students that want to specialize out of a county that desperately needs more medical professionals.
Having family in close proximity is a really, really big plus that should not be underestimated and can help you out tremendously. Family can help you with some stuff (like ironing shirts, going to Costco, etc.). That can save hours of time.

I'm usually an advocate against Western COMP also because some of the smartest people in my undergrad have went there and are currently struggling through the dysfunctional curriculum and an administration that is completely obsessed with class expansion. However, in this very particular case, I think Western will be a good fit and, if you're proactive enough and put in the effort, you'll do fine.

Yeah I did consider the clinical opportunities, but forgot to list it as a "pro" and sort of lumped it into my chance at remaining within CA. And yeah, I am underestimating the amount of time I'll save by staying home, so I'll have to take that into a larger consideration when thinking about shopping, cooking, etc.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I really don't understand this obsession with RVU. It's a new school with a very small OPTI that's already starting another branch campus in a different state. The school should be more concerned about securing GME positions in the state before investing in a new campus.

Two things:
1. board scores
2. Match List

By those two metrics they are already in the mid-upper tier of DO schools and climbing fast.

 

[Henry101]

Hey @HSR, have you decided on anything yet?
Curious about your decision...

 

[HSR]

I've been putting it off/been busy with family for thanksgiving, but I only have two weeks left. I'll let you know when I make a final decision. Thanks again for the help

 

[Giovanotto]

Two things:
1. board scores
2. Match List

By those two metrics they are already in the mid-upper tier of DO schools and climbing fast.

That doesn't make up for a seemingly preemptive expansion. Climbing fast is predicated on their continuing investment towards the main campus. If anything, the school may be dropping fast.

 

[Henry101]

That doesn't make up for a seemingly preemptive expansion. Climbing fast is predicated on their continuing investment towards the main campus. If anything, the school may be dropping fast.

I'd rather see a school open up a branch campus than a school significantly increase class size while completely disregard GME expansion. RVU's class size is 160 while WesternCOMP is ~250 and growing
But, yes, I agree. RVU should've waited before stepping into Utah. There were talks to open up a PA, pharmacy, and nursing program in Colorado as well as building another building but, unfortunately, it looks like these will take a back seat because of the investment into the Utah campus. It also gives the U of CO even greater reason to vigorously campaign against the school. I have a friend who had a 242 on her USMLE and wasn't even invited for an interview at UofCO Peds program but matched her second choice at Children's Hospital of Los Angeles in the last cycle. The program took an IMG from Asia but didn't bother interviewing a native from the state.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That doesn't make up for a seemingly preemptive expansion. Climbing fast is predicated on their continuing investment towards the main campus. If anything, the school may be dropping fast.

I'd rather see a school open up a branch campus than a school significantly increase class size while completely disregard GME expansion. RVU's class size is 160 while WesternCOMP is ~250 and growing
But, yes, I agree. RVU should've waited before stepping into Utah. There were talks to open up a PA, pharmacy, and nursing program in Colorado as well as building another building but, unfortunately, it looks like these will take a back seat because of the investment into the Utah campus. It also gives the U of CO even greater reason to vigorously campaign against the school. I have a friend who had a 242 on her USMLE and wasn't even invited for an interview at UofCO Peds program but matched her second choice at Children's Hospital of Los Angeles in the last cycle. The program took an IMG from Asia but didn't bother interviewing a native from the state.

Eh the branch campus is actually one of the better ones to come about in recent years. Utah is a state with an over abundance of qualified pre meds and a state school that is extremely difficult to get into as a resident. The southern part of the state really is in dire need of primary care physicians. And at least they aren't trying to open one far away from the main campus like NYCOM...

The U of CO is well known to be a difficult place for DOs to match. Her not matching or being interviewed has nothing to do with the school she came from. There are far more factors at play than that, I can guarantee it wasn't about the school, especially since they have grads matching at other university surgery programs. And opening a branch campus doesn't "give them more reason to campaign against the school". I would like to see evidence of them campaigning against RVU... I really doubt they care enough to worry about a DO program.

In hospital I work in the vast majority of the docs are MDs and it is well known to be a difficult place for DOs to work. All of the docs I've talked to have said the same thing, that if I am planning on going DO that RVU should be my number 1 choice. Like I've said before, RVU will be a "top tier" (whatever that means) DO school before too long.

 

[Henry101]

Eh the branch campus is actually one of the better ones to come about in recent years. Utah is a state with an over abundance of qualified pre meds and a state school that is extremely difficult to get into as a resident. The southern part of the state really is in dire need of primary care physicians. And at least they aren't trying to open one far away from the main campus like NYCOM...

Agreed. I heard that they are planning to build it in Saint George, Utah which is a beautiful city and somewhat strategic because it's a just an hour away from Nevada and Arizona. It's also about 90 minutes away from Las Vegas too for, you know, extracurricular activities and such.

The U of CO is well known to be a difficult place for DOs to match.

I would like to see evidence of them campaigning against RVU... I really doubt they care enough to worry about a DO program.

Yeah. DO students are required to pay a large fee to do externships/electives/auditions at a UofCO site. They have to pay for it in full before they even start.
I've heard UofCO is concerned because all the residencies in the state were affiliated with UofCO and, now with the opening of many new residencies in the state by RVU, they are losing their monopoly on physician training and the federal $$$$ associated with it. To put this into some context, Colorado and Arizona both have about the same populations, ~5.5-6million. While Arizona is educating physicians at UofA in Tuscon, UofA in Pheonix, ATSU, AZCOM, Mayo, and Creighton, Colorado only HAD UofCO. Now that RVUCOM opened up and is expanding GME opportunities in the state, they know they are losing the medical monopoly in the state.

Anyway, none of this is important or pertinent for OP's decision, just wanted to share. RVUCOM and COMP are both great schools and the OP will get an excellent education at both schools.

 

[HSR]

I ended up choosing RVU.

Simple explanation: I based much of my decision off statistics of first time pass rate/comlex avg/match list for both schools and I think that for my own career goals, I have a better chance of succeeding at RVU. Thanks again for all the help everyone!

If anyone is going through a similar situation, feel free to message me.

 

[Henry101]

Congratulations! I'm still waiting to hear back from RVU buy it's definitely in my top choices.