Saint James School of Medicine

[Beyonce19]

I have some concerns with Saint James School of Medicine. Any current or past students with similar issues?

1. Transparency: Once I was admitted, I received an email stating that I need to make an immediate payment of $1000 USD in order to reserve my seat. My Admission's Advisor failed to mention this to me prior to submitting my application and interviewing with the school.

2.Transparency: The Admission's Advisor failed to mention that the school does not qualify for government funding. Within weeks of starting the program, I had to secure an alternative funding option (a private lender). Most of my peers are concurrently pursing a Master's degree in order to pay for their medical education at SJSM. Most student's struggle to pay for their studies at SJSM. There are very few funding options.

3. A broken educational system: The school accepts students with a learning disability (which is not uncommon among US medical schools), yet fail to grant accommodations to students. How does this make any sense? The school is setting up students to fail. You cannot admit student's with a disability and then not give them the necessary accommodations in order for them to succeed-- that is non-sensical.

4. Transparency: The school is unable to answer very simple questions like: how many students start the program; how many students complete the program; how many students obtain residency placements, etc. Even their match list, it contains the 1st name of the applicant and not the last name. It is near impossible to determine who are these students who are "allegedly" matching. Are they real people, or are they made up? When did these students graduate, and how many times did they apply to the match? Everything is very ambiguous when it comes to SJSM.

5. Accreditation: Is the school accredited or not? According to CAAM-PH, SJSM has "
Initial Provisional Accreditation on Probation extended for 1 year" . W hat does this even mean?

6. Transparency: Accordingly, once a student enters MD5, they have to pay for 2-3 clinical rotations in advance before they can even write USMLE STEP 1. The school does not mention this to students prior to the MD5 semester. Students have to find between $18,000- $25,000 out of no where. This is very stressful, and one of the very reasons why student's transfer out of the school.

7. Dishonesty: The school distributes a housing list for students to find a rental apartment. However, for most of the places, the rent is really high and over-priced. It seems like they are making some $ off of the students (as if SJSM is colluding with the local landlords). For example, when I tell my local friends how much money I am paying for rent, they blatantly tell me I am being ripped-off.

8. Many of my peers have left the school; of the students that left, it's been over 1 yr, and some have not received their tuition reimbursement

What have been your experiences at SJSM?

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[Ryuzaki]

I have some concerns with Saint James School of Medicine. Any current or past students with similar issues?

1. Transparency: Once I was admitted, I received an email stating that I need to make an immediate payment of $1000 USD in order to reserve my seat. My Admission's Advisor failed to mention this to me prior to submitting my application and interviewing with the school.

2.Transparency: The Admission's Advisor failed to mention that the school does not qualify for government funding. Within weeks of starting the program, I had to secure an alternative funding option (a private lender). Most of my peers are concurrently pursing a Master's degree in order to pay for their medical education at SJSM. Most student's struggle to pay for their studies at SJSM. There are very few funding options.

3. A broken educational system: The school accepts students with a learning disability (which is not uncommon among US medical schools), yet fail to grant accommodations to students. How does this make any sense? The school is setting up students to fail. You cannot admit student's with a disability and then not give them the necessary accommodations in order for them to succeed-- that is non-sensical.

4. Transparency: The school is unable to answer very simple questions like: how many students start the program; how many students complete the program; how many students obtain residency placements, etc. Even their match list, it contains the 1st name of the applicant and not the last name. It is near impossible to determine who are these students who are "allegedly" matching. Are they real people, or are they made up? When did these students graduate, and how many times did they apply to the match? Everything is very ambiguous when it comes to SJSM.

5. Accreditation: Is the school accredited or not? According to CAAM-PH, SJSM has "Initial Provisional Accreditation on Probation extended for 1 year" . W hat does this even mean?

6. Transparency: Accordingly, once a student enters MD5, they have to pay for 2-3 clinical rotations in advance before they can even write USMLE STEP 1. The school does not mention this to students prior to the MD5 semester. Students have to find between $18,000- $25,000 out of no where. This is very stressful, and one of the very reasons why student's transfer out of the school.

7. Dishonesty: The school distributes a housing list for students to find a rental apartment. However, for most of the places, the rent is really high and over-priced. It seems like they are making some $ off of the students (as if SJSM is colluding with the local landlords). For example, when I tell my local friends how much money I am paying for rent, they blatantly tell me I am being ripped-off.

8. Many of my peers have left the school; of the students that left, it's been over 1 yr, and some have not received their tuition reimbursement

What have been your experiences at SJSM?

I applied and was accepted to this school almost immediately and when I questioned them about the attrition rate. I was told that most of the reason was, "Money dries up, can't pay for stuff" - which meant that you'll be overcharged for everything. At the time, I was applying, the website did not offer much information. The only thing I could find was a blog from some guy that supposedly went to St. James. It seem really sketchy and I felt like I was being conned by the guy on the other end of the phone, however, I did pay a deposit to the school to reserve the seat, but then, I did not follow through with admission and decided to forego my spot and try my luck at a more caring school, which ended up being the right choice for me.

If you want a more thorough review, I recommend this thread.

 

[Bill Harvey]

I have some concerns with Saint James School of Medicine. Any current or past students with similar issues?

1. Transparency: Once I was admitted, I received an email stating that I need to make an immediate payment of $1000 USD in order to reserve my seat. My Admission's Advisor failed to mention this to me prior to submitting my application and interviewing with the school.

2.Transparency: The Admission's Advisor failed to mention that the school does not qualify for government funding. Within weeks of starting the program, I had to secure an alternative funding option (a private lender). Most of my peers are concurrently pursing a Master's degree in order to pay for their medical education at SJSM. Most student's struggle to pay for their studies at SJSM. There are very few funding options.

3. A broken educational system: The school accepts students with a learning disability (which is not uncommon among US medical schools), yet fail to grant accommodations to students. How does this make any sense? The school is setting up students to fail. You cannot admit student's with a disability and then not give them the necessary accommodations in order for them to succeed-- that is non-sensical.

4. Transparency: The school is unable to answer very simple questions like: how many students start the program; how many students complete the program; how many students obtain residency placements, etc. Even their match list, it contains the 1st name of the applicant and not the last name. It is near impossible to determine who are these students who are "allegedly" matching. Are they real people, or are they made up? When did these students graduate, and how many times did they apply to the match? Everything is very ambiguous when it comes to SJSM.

5. Accreditation: Is the school accredited or not? According to CAAM-PH, SJSM has "
Initial Provisional Accreditation on Probation extended for 1 year" . W hat does this even mean?

6. Transparency: Accordingly, once a student enters MD5, they have to pay for 2-3 clinical rotations in advance before they can even write USMLE STEP 1. The school does not mention this to students prior to the MD5 semester. Students have to find between $18,000- $25,000 out of no where. This is very stressful, and one of the very reasons why student's transfer out of the school.

7. Dishonesty: The school distributes a housing list for students to find a rental apartment. However, for most of the places, the rent is really high and over-priced. It seems like they are making some $ off of the students (as if SJSM is colluding with the local landlords). For example, when I tell my local friends how much money I am paying for rent, they blatantly tell me I am being ripped-off.

8. Many of my peers have left the school; of the students that left, it's been over 1 yr, and some have not received their tuition reimbursement

What have been your experiences at SJSM?

I understand your frustrations. I find that much of the information that students should have access to is conveniently "lost in communication." You can never get a straight answer from anyone who works at the school and there's no recourse when you find out you've been lied to. Important emails go unanswered regularly and if you can track down a dean to speak to face to face they pretend they don't know what you're referring to and tell you to talk to someone at the Chicago office. Communicating directly with the head office would be a nice option if anyone knew who to contact for a given issue. There's no way to find out who is in charge of what at SJSM. This is done on purpose so that the administrators have a revolving supply of plausible deniability to hide their cowardly actions behind.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

4. Transparency: The school is unable to answer very simple questions like: how many students start the program; how many students complete the program; how many students obtain residency placements, etc. Even their match list, it contains the 1st name of the applicant and not the last name. It is near impossible to determine who are these students who are "allegedly" matching. Are they real people, or are they made up? When did these students graduate, and how many times did they apply to the match? Everything is very ambiguous when it comes to SJSM.

You can look up the hospitals where they matched and match them in the hospital residency pages. It's pretty typical not to publish full names, look at the other schools match lists. Some don't even post lists.

7. Dishonesty: The school distributes a housing list for students to find a rental apartment. However, for most of the places, the rent is really high and over-priced. It seems like they are making some $ off of the students (as if SJSM is colluding with the local landlords). For example, when I tell my local friends how much money I am paying for rent, they blatantly tell me I am being ripped-off.

They charge students more than locals on every island in the Caribbean... Ask your fellow students what they are paying.

 

[Chondroclast]

I have some concerns with Saint James School of Medicine. Any current or past students with similar issues?

1. Transparency: Once I was admitted, I received an email stating that I need to make an immediate payment of $1000 USD in order to reserve my seat. My Admission's Advisor failed to mention this to me prior to submitting my application and interviewing with the school.

2.Transparency: The Admission's Advisor failed to mention that the school does not qualify for government funding. Within weeks of starting the program, I had to secure an alternative funding option (a private lender). Most of my peers are concurrently pursing a Master's degree in order to pay for their medical education at SJSM. Most student's struggle to pay for their studies at SJSM. There are very few funding options.

3. A broken educational system: The school accepts students with a learning disability (which is not uncommon among US medical schools), yet fail to grant accommodations to students. How does this make any sense? The school is setting up students to fail. You cannot admit student's with a disability and then not give them the necessary accommodations in order for them to succeed-- that is non-sensical.

4. Transparency: The school is unable to answer very simple questions like: how many students start the program; how many students complete the program; how many students obtain residency placements, etc. Even their match list, it contains the 1st name of the applicant and not the last name. It is near impossible to determine who are these students who are "allegedly" matching. Are they real people, or are they made up? When did these students graduate, and how many times did they apply to the match? Everything is very ambiguous when it comes to SJSM.

5. Accreditation: Is the school accredited or not? According to CAAM-PH, SJSM has "
Initial Provisional Accreditation on Probation extended for 1 year" . W hat does this even mean?

6. Transparency: Accordingly, once a student enters MD5, they have to pay for 2-3 clinical rotations in advance before they can even write USMLE STEP 1. The school does not mention this to students prior to the MD5 semester. Students have to find between $18,000- $25,000 out of no where. This is very stressful, and one of the very reasons why student's transfer out of the school.

7. Dishonesty: The school distributes a housing list for students to find a rental apartment. However, for most of the places, the rent is really high and over-priced. It seems like they are making some $ off of the students (as if SJSM is colluding with the local landlords). For example, when I tell my local friends how much money I am paying for rent, they blatantly tell me I am being ripped-off.

8. Many of my peers have left the school; of the students that left, it's been over 1 yr, and some have not received their tuition reimbursement

What have been your experiences at SJSM?

1. It's a business first, school second. They want your money, that is all.
2. Why would you fly to a school, start a program, be in class, etc. yet not know about how you are funding your education??? That sounds absolutely insane. You should have found out that information before accepting your seat and moving there.... Seems very silly on your end
3. The US has the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), and schools that receive government funding/us financial aid must comply with those laws for students with disabilities. You're in the Caribbean, there are no laws for a private medical school like that. The school is not required to provide accommodations- it's not in the US. I'm at SGU and they provide accommodations for students with disabilities and they are amazing with it- but that's why it's SGU... they have all of those resources.
4. The schools are smart, because it's a business first, school second. They don't want to tell prospective students about the insane amount that drop out/can't make it to the end/fail step 1... it's all hidden for a reason, you shouldn't be surprised lol it's all sketchy.

Lastly- that's why you don't go to a shady school in the Caribbean that isn't SGU/Ross/AUC/Saba, otherwise- you are asking for trouble.

 

[Bill Harvey]

Lastly- that's why you don't go to a shady school in the Caribbean that isn't SGU/Ross/AUC/Saba, otherwise- you are asking for trouble.

I think there is some truth to what you're saying about going to a school that isn't shady. I do believe that there are other schools in the Caribbean that are good, in that they treat their students well and live up to a reasonable standard, but It's very hard to know what you're getting yourself into. Definitely buyer beware. This isn't directed to anyone in this thread, but even if a student does choose a riskier option for whatever reason, they still retain the right to voice their disappointment. At the very least, let the negative experiences of others guide future med students so that they can make a better informed decision.

Knowing which schools are "good" and which are "bad" can be quite tricky. Websites advertise misleading information, and admissions advisors can be very convincing, especially if you're desperate to become a doctor. Ultimately, making a risky choice can pay off or blow up in your face. Regardless of how things turn out, I want other students to share their experiences so that we can all learn from each others mistakes.

 

[Chondroclast]

I think there is some truth to what you're saying about going to a school that isn't shady. I do believe that there are other schools in the Caribbean that are good, in that they treat their students well and live up to a reasonable standard, but It's very hard to know what you're getting yourself into. Definitely buyer beware. This isn't directed to anyone in this thread, but even if a student does choose a riskier option for whatever reason, they still retain the right to voice their disappointment. At the very least, let the negative experiences of others guide future med students so that they can make a better informed decision.

Knowing which schools are "good" and which are "bad" can be quite tricky. Websites advertise misleading information, and admissions advisors can be very convincing, especially if you're desperate to become a doctor. Ultimately, making a risky choice can pay off or blow up in your face. Regardless of how things turn out, I want other students to share their experiences so that we can all learn from each others mistakes.

It's pretty clear which schools are good and which are bad, not tricky at all. You just need to be smart and informed.

 

[Bill Harvey]

It's pretty clear which schools are good and which are bad, not tricky at all. You just need to be smart and informed.

Absolutely you need to be informed. Things are constantly changing and schools can go from being a last resort to a viable option, and vice versa. " Once upon a time the big 4 Caribbean schools were considered a last chance option that only med school rejects went to. They are now higher up on the totem pole and have a better reputation which they earned over time. There's a known general hierarchy when it comes to medical schools, but also upward and downward mobility in terms of reputation. There are schools other than the big 4 that can be considered options in my opinion. This does muddy the waters somewhat, thus making it unclear which can be considered worth your time and money.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, Caribbean medical students were charting an unknown course at schools like SGU. Their gamble payed off. Were the big 4 schools always considered a good option? No, they were not. Just like students on this forum get mocked for going to schools like SJSM, domestic American medical students looked down on the first wave of Caribbean students. Why not be better than that? So you didn't make it into a stateside school. No biggie. You don't have to carry around a chip on your shoulder and bully people you think are below you so that you can feel better about yourself. None of us are going to Harvard here, and even if you had all the bragging rights in the world, I'd expect future doctors to not belittle those that are less fortunate.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Absolutely you need to be informed. Things are constantly changing and schools can go from being a last resort to a viable option, and vice versa. " Once upon a time the big 4 Caribbean schools were considered a last chance option that only med school rejects went to. They are now higher up on the totem pole and have a better reputation which they earned over time. There's a known general hierarchy when it comes to medical schools, but also upward and downward mobility in terms of reputation. There are schools other than the big 4 that can be considered options in my opinion. This does muddy the waters somewhat, thus making it unclear which can be considered worth your time and money.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, Caribbean medical students were charting an unknown course at schools like SGU. Their gamble payed off. Were the big 4 schools always considered a good option? No, they were not. Just like students on this forum get mocked for going to schools like SJSM, domestic American medical students looked down on the first wave of Caribbean students. Why not be better than that? So you didn't make it into a stateside school. No biggie. You don't have to carry around a chip on your shoulder and bully people you think are below you so that you can feel better about yourself. None of us are going to Harvard here, and even if you had all the bragging rights in the world, I'd expect future doctors to not belittle those that are less fortunate.

I don't entirely disagree with your overall point, but Caribbean medical schools do not exist in a vacuum and you have to consider them in the broader context of US Medical school education (which the vast majority of Caribbean schools cater to.) Medical school admission rates and the cultural landscape of medical education were *vastly* different just 10-15 years ago, let alone 40-50 years ago in the 70's and 80's. Competition for admission, test scores, GPA, research experience etc have all risen significantly since then, both domestically and abroad, not to mention the cost of college overall and especially medical education. An American student entering SGU in 1995 was in a very different position compared to one in 2015. The fact that schools like SGU and Ross existed then and have been able to capitalize on that longevity, does not at all mean that much younger schools will at all share that same success.

Absolutely you need to be informed

Very true, but where you get your information from is critical. Many of these schools do not have a great track record of transparency, including my own institution of SGU. In the 70's and 80's, there was no google. The internet, cell phones and texting, coordinated social media campaigns, etc were future tech. The tools of information have become tools of misinformation. One needn't look further than this forum to confirm that. Despite schools like SGU and Ross existing for close to 50 years, people still frequently argue over various admission statistics because the schools have a policy of obfuscation.

Why not be better than that? So you didn't make it into a stateside school. No biggie.

*This right here is the problem.* It is a biggie. I'm a PGY3 resident that graduated from SGU with zero red flags and no delays, and this past month my medical student loans just ticked over the half a million dollar mark. $500,000 *is* a biggie, unless you're a 0.1%-er. I still have a full year of residency left and probably a year of fellowship after that. I'm going to be staring down the barrel of $600-700k in loans before I even put on my big-boy white coat. And I'm in my mid-thirties. If I hadn't Matched, those loans would still be sitting here hanging above my head. And I wouldn't have the prospect of an attending salary to ward off that Sword of Damocles. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of undischargeable debt is life-altering for most people. Just walking out of a US med school and into a Caribbean one increases your chances of not Matching from <5% to at a minimum of 15-20%, a 3-4x increase, and that is being conservative. Walking into unvetted schools like SJSM raises it to 50%, although the cost of attendance there is significantly less than a place like SGU. But that itself raises its own set of problems. You're asking undergraduate students, typically with minimal life/work experience, with very little available accurate graduate statistics, to forecast complicated economics into an uncertain future, in a complicated domestic medical education system that often confounds seasoned US clinicians, and marrying that to an esoteric foreign medical education system, all while navigating a new culture, with subpar educational facilities and staff, all while trying to acquire a body of knowledge that is frequently described as "drinking water from a fire hose." Figuring out what can be considered "worth your time and money" seems a bit understated.

 

[msfuturedoctor20]

I attended SJSM and they were pretty open to my concerns and questions. You will never find a 100% clear answer. Every school has its "secrets" and not very many will provide you with an honest answer. I graduated and matched from SJSM this year. The match list posted on their website IS NOT made up people. I know the majority of people on the list. First names are not listed due to security and personal concerns. ALSO, their match rate has increased from the past few years with this year being the highest ever.

 

[gyngyn]

I attended SJSM and they were pretty open to my concerns and questions. You will never find a 100% clear answer. Every school has its "secrets" and not very many will provide you with an honest answer. I graduated and matched from SJSM this year. The match list posted on their website IS NOT made up people. I know the majority of people on the list. First names are not listed due to security and personal concerns. ALSO, their match rate has increased from the past few years with this year being the highest ever.

How many students started when you did?
How many of them matched with you?

 

[Beyonce19]

I attended SJSM and they were pretty open to my concerns and questions. You will never find a 100% clear answer. Every school has its "secrets" and not very many will provide you with an honest answer. I graduated and matched from SJSM this year. The match list posted on their website IS NOT made up people. I know the majority of people on the list. First names are not listed due to security and personal concerns. ALSO, their match rate has increased from the past few years with this year being the highest ever.

Hey there,

You said that "you attended SJSM." Are you no longer a student? Regarding your statement: "... this year being the highest [match] ever". Take into consideration that SJSM admits students in Jan, May, and Sept. In total, 3 times per year. They have 2 campuses. Each class is about 30-50 students. When you do the math [30 x 6= 180], and in 2018, they had about 70 student's that matched, this is not good.... Also consider the fact that SJSM admits a lot of transfer students, and even foreign doctors. So a plethora of student's who start the program in MD1 do not make it all the way through.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

Hey there,

You said that "you attended SJSM." Are you no longer a student? Regarding your statement: "... this year being the highest [match] ever". Take into consideration that SJSM admits students in Jan, May, and Sept. In total, 3 times per year. They have 2 campuses. Each class is about 30-50 students. When you do the math [30 x 6= 180], and in 2018, they had about 70 student's that matched, this is not good.... Also consider the fact that SJSM admits a lot of transfer students, and even foreign doctors. So a plethora of student's who start the program in MD1 do not make it all the way through.

Read what they said, they attended and matched. That means they graduated from SJSM. And matched.

SJSM just got 3 year accreditation from ACCM, what's the general opinion here on that?

 

[gyngyn]

SJSM just got 3 year accreditation from ACCM, what's the general opinion here on that?

It means very little to the majority (at best estimate) of their matriculants who don't match.

 

[Bill Harvey]

I attended SJSM and they were pretty open to my concerns and questions. You will never find a 100% clear answer. Every school has its "secrets" and not very many will provide you with an honest answer. I graduated and matched from SJSM this year. The match list posted on their website IS NOT made up people. I know the majority of people on the list. First names are not listed due to security and personal concerns. ALSO, their match rate has increased from the past few years with this year being the highest ever.

Congrats on your match! I do not doubt the validity of the match list. I don't know about your particular situation but many of the SJSM students that matched this round were languishing in un-matched limbo for years. It's great that matching is possible but I don't want anyone to look at this through rose colored glasses and think that matching within a year or two, or even getting through basic science is probable. What you achieved is exceptional. You made this happen for yourself. This is not what happens 90% or the time. Most students don't even make it out of basic sciences at SJSM.

 

[Bill Harvey]

Read what they said, they attended and matched. That means they graduated from SJSM. And matched.

SJSM just got 3 year accreditation from ACCM, what's the general opinion here on that?

I hope the ACCM accreditation amounts to something tangible. What I've been hearing is that it could make it easier for students to get educational loans. I'm surprised SJSM got the ACCM accreditation to be honest. The power, plumbing and internet went out while the accreditors were visiting and everyone was sweating bullets and leaving the school because the toilets had no water in them. SJSM probably won them over with their freshly painted bathroom sinks and computer lab. Wait a second... did I say computer lab? I meant to say MD5 classroom that MD5 students were barred from during the ACCM visit so that they wouldn't get in the way. CAAM-HP is what the school really needs to hang onto.

 

[Bill Harvey]

It means very little to the majority (at best estimate) of their matriculants who don't match.

From what I can tell, the main feature of ACCM accreditation is that it will make lending institutions more likely to provide loans to SJSM students. This is what students are excited and talking about. If ACCM accreditation means that students can get loans more easily, then more students will start school at SJSM. More students starting = more students paying tuition and probably, more students graduating. The percentage of students that succeed at SJSM will not change by increasing the intake of new students. Finances are the limiting factor for some students trying to study at SJSM and if that problem gets solved then the intake numbers will increase and the few that drop out because of funding issues can remain.

I can't speak to how SJSMs claim dispensed through their provost Dr. Lumicao, that ACCM accreditation will increase students likelihood of matching. I would appreciate any clarity on this if someone on this forum knows about that. Perhaps it's some sort of optics thing?

The ACCM accreditation will not affect the quality of education. It will not affect your ability to get accepted to SJSM as the entrance cut off GPA will remain at 2.0. It will increase your tuition because being accredited by the ACCM costs SJSM money, it will not help you pass the NBME or the USMLE. It will not increase your chance of making it to or through clinicals (unless you were going to drop out because you couldn't affort the tuition).

If I were in charge of SJSM, I would definitely try to be accredited by as many of these groups as possible. At the very least it looks good, and they may even amount to some tangible benefits for their students. Ultimately, SJSM absolutely needs to retain their CAAM-HP status. They need it. I've read the reports that CAAM-HP put out for the institutions they accredit and they are not messing around. They do put schools on probation and deny accreditation. As long as SJSM is putting all effort needed to retain CAAM-HP, I will put up with whatever charade they put on for other accrediting bodies.

 

[Bill Harvey]

They charge students more than locals on every island in the Caribbean... Ask your fellow students what they are paying.

That's a good idea. I second that recommendation. During the aftermath of Hurricane Irma, some SJSM students came from Anguilla to Saint Vincent. Students from Dominica came as well creating high demand for housing. This resulted in stressed out hurricane survivors paying really high prices for accommodation. The people at SJSM that run the housing are locals, so they love it when students shell out the big bucks to rent from their friends and family on the island.

So definitely ask the other students, as they don't have a vested interest in you paying more. Get on a student only Facebook group that gives you real information about the cost of rent. Do this as early as possible. If you end up renting an expensive place because you were worried that everything would get scooped up and you'd be homeless, make sure you only sign a lease for a semester. There are way more apartments than there are people looking to rent. Once you're here on the island you can look around and get a place that fits your budget.

EmeraldDragon. which school are you at/ or were at? I saw on another thread that you knew about SJSM while it was on Bonaire. I heard good things about that island. If you attended there, how was it? Some of the instructors that were at SJSM Bonaire came to Saint Vincent, and I've heard that the island is beautiful. Must have added a bit of value to the med school experience.

 

[brooks brother]

It's pretty clear which schools are good and which are bad, not tricky at all. You just need to be smart and informed.

I'm doing my research into Caribbean schools. Which ones are good? Are they good because they have higher standards for admission, such as an MCAT requirement? Do they have a higher percentage of students graduate? Better instructors? I want to make an informed decision but I'm having a lot of trouble finding common statistics such as entrance gpa required, MCAT score, how long it takes on average to get through the program, how many graduate etc.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm doing my research into Caribbean schools. Which ones are good? Are they good because they have higher standards for admission, such as an MCAT requirement? Do they have a higher percentage of students graduate? Better instructors? I want to make an informed decision but I'm having a lot of trouble finding common statistics such as entrance gpa required, MCAT score, how long it takes on average to get through the program, how many graduate etc.

There is a good reason that they are not going to make anything clear.
It would eliminate all but the most desperate of applicants.

 

[rush632]

How many students started when you did?
How many of them matched with you?

I graduated from St. James and matched the following year. I'd say out of the 100 people who started MD1 with me, only about 45 made it off the island. Of those 45, I'd estimate 15-20 matched. A professor told us on the island that only about 20% of us would become practicing doctors. He was pretty spot on. The match lists are not made up. There is a lot of negative commentary on threads and forums regarding SJSM and it's understandable. The few people who match aren't writing much but the majority, who transferred or quit, are.

 

[Bill Harvey]

How many students started when you did?
How many of them matched with you?

These are the numbers prospective students want. Instead, SJSM on their website provides numbers on the ethnicity of their student body. I don't see how that's useful.

Compare Caribbean Medical Schools | St. James School of Medicine

Compare our low tuition fees at our accredited MD program with other US & Caribbean medical schools. Get a quality medical education with less debt.

www.sjsm.org

 

[Listen2Savage]

SGU/AUC/Ross are not that hard to get into

Why would anyone settle for this crap?

Won't tell you residency appointments, but hey 24% were black so there's that

 

[Bill Harvey]

SJSM is very sneaky. Their web presence is carefully planned and if you search for SJSM you will see "newspaper articles" that paint SJSM in a very flattering light. I saw the same article published in many news sources. What they do is pay an intermediary called AdTime Marketing to promote their SJSM article to various news sources including: the Ottawa Citizen, Businesswire and the Financial Post. It's legal, but shady. These are the details:

AdTime Marketing Inc.
Sam Shah
847-971-6010
[email protected]

Increased Need for Trained Doctors Sparks Saint James School of Medicine To Offer Affordable Medical Education

Thanks to medical advances and the surging presence of an aging population, the need for both physicians and specialists is escalating worldwide. But

www.businesswire.com

Increased Need for Trained Doctors Sparks Saint James School of Medicine To Offer Affordable Medical Education

PARK RIDGE, Ill. — Thanks to medical advances and the surging presence of an aging population, the need for both physicians and specialists is escalating…

ottawacitizen.com

Increased Need for Trained Doctors Sparks Saint James School of Medicine To Offer Affordable Medical Education

PARK RIDGE, Ill. — Thanks to medical advances and the surging presence of an aging population, the need for both physicians and specialists is escalating…

business.financialpost.com

 

[EmeraldDragon]

From what I can tell, the main feature of ACCM accreditation is that it will make lending institutions more likely to provide loans to SJSM students. This is what students are excited and talking about. If ACCM accreditation means that students can get loans more easily, then more students will start school at SJSM. More students starting = more students paying tuition and probably, more students graduating. The percentage of students that succeed at SJSM will not change by increasing the intake of new students. Finances are the limiting factor for some students trying to study at SJSM and if that problem gets solved then the intake numbers will increase and the few that drop out because of funding issues can remain.

I can't speak to how SJSMs claim dispensed through their provost Dr. Lumicao, that ACCM accreditation will increase students likelihood of matching. I would appreciate any clarity on this if someone on this forum knows about that. Perhaps it's some sort of optics thing?

The ACCM accreditation will not affect the quality of education. It will not affect your ability to get accepted to SJSM as the entrance cut off GPA will remain at 2.0. It will increase your tuition because being accredited by the ACCM costs SJSM money, it will not help you pass the NBME or the USMLE. It will not increase your chance of making it to or through clinicals (unless you were going to drop out because you couldn't affort the tuition).

If I were in charge of SJSM, I would definitely try to be accredited by as many of these groups as possible. At the very least it looks good, and they may even amount to some tangible benefits for their students. Ultimately, SJSM absolutely needs to retain their CAAM-HP status. They need it. I've read the reports that CAAM-HP put out for the institutions they accredit and they are not messing around. They do put schools on probation and deny accreditation. As long as SJSM is putting all effort needed to retain CAAM-HP, I will put up with whatever charade they put on for other accrediting bodies.

ACCM and CAAM-HP accreditation are essentially the same, just different agencies. Both are WFME recognized, ACCM is actually recognized until like 2024 or something, whereas CAAM-HP has to be reviewed again in a year or so. But having WFME means that the accreditors are also accredited.

The accreditation by both means that the curriculum is up to standards, not that more financial options will open up.

In the Caribbean there are essentially three "real" accreditation agencies, CAAM-HP, ACCM, and NVAO. NVAO is Dutch and only applies to Dutch islands like Curacao and half of St. Maarten. Anything else isn't recognized by the US so lining up any more accreditation doesn't amount to anything. The only exception is local Caribbean accreditation agencies, which are important on the islands but not relevant outside of them. Your school being recognized by the government of Antigua doesn't mean you'll be allowed to practice in the US. For that you need CAAM-HP, ACCM, or NVAO.

Overall any of those three accreditations raises the profile of the school, and will have major effects on how its graduates are perceived, student's ability to practice in the US after 2023, and the schools reputation.

A few schools recently earned ACCM accreditation, and for the Caribbean, this is definitely a good thing. It makes it easier to tell schools that have standards vs some of the much scarier, fly-by-night, Caribbean schools. I know the rep on here is that every Caribbean school is bad, but there really is a spectrum.

 

[Bill Harvey]

ACCM and CAAM-HP accreditation are essentially the same, just different agencies. Both are WFME recognized, ACCM is actually recognized until like 2024 or something, whereas CAAM-HP has to be reviewed again in a year or so. But having WFME means that the accreditors are also accredited.

The accreditation by both means that the curriculum is up to standards, not that more financial options will open up.

Thank you for this info. Many SJSM students were hearing from faculty that the ACCM accreditation would help lenders feel more secure in providing loans to SJSM students. I'll share this info with them so that they don't get their hopes up.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

Thank you for this info. Many SJSM students were hearing from faculty that the ACCM accreditation would help lenders feel more secure in providing loans to SJSM students. I'll share this info with them so that they don't get their hopes up.

Accreditation *can* open up doors to more lenders and financial aid, but you won't see it overnight. I'd assume when faculty refer to it, in their view a year or so is soon, but to a current student, a year and some change to get more aid is more like half the program, and it's not fast enough if you need it.

 

[Bill Harvey]

These are the numbers prospective students want. Instead, SJSM on their website provides numbers on the ethnicity of their student body. I don't see how that's useful.

Compare Caribbean Medical Schools | St. James School of Medicine

Compare our low tuition fees at our accredited MD program with other US & Caribbean medical schools. Get a quality medical education with less debt.

www.sjsm.org

View attachment 267906

Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like SJSM took down their racial demographics page. I'd like to extend a hearty "well done" to whichever SJSM employee/stakeholder spends their time scouring Student Doctor Network, looking for the non-PC nightmare material that gets the "okay" from whoever is in charge at SJSM.

Since it seems to work better than a email to SJSM decision makers: Raj Mitra, Joseph Chavez, Kaushik Guha or Provost Dr. Lumicao, or anyone else that works at SJSM for that matter, I'll give you another thing to work on.

I respectfully suggest you take down the medical pictures of children and adults with medical disorders (Down Syndrome, Acromegaly etc.), from your "Saint James School of Medicine" official Facebook page. I'd suggest that if you don't have consent to use a picture, don't use it. I've chosen not to link or post these pictures as an example, as I don't want to violate these indivduals as SJSM has.

The SJSM Facebook page is a public page where people go to check out the school. There is no justification for posting medical pictures that were taken with the consent of the patient, hinging on the fact that the picture would be used for medical education purposes only. The use of these pictures outside the scope for which they were intended, is a violation of the patient, who in their heart believed that a picture of them could help train future medical professionals.

 

[Listen2Savage]

Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like SJSM took down their racial demographics page. I'd like to extend a hearty "well done" to whichever SJSM employee/stakeholder spends their time scouring Student Doctor Network, looking for the non-PC nightmare material that gets the "okay" from whoever is in charge at SJSM.

Since it seems to work better than a email to SJSM decision makers: Raj Mitra, Joseph Chavez, Kaushik Guha or Provost Dr. Lumicao, or anyone else that works at SJSM for that matter, I'll give you another thing to work on.

I respectfully suggest you take down the medical pictures of children and adults with medical disorders (Down Syndrome, Acromegaly etc.), from your "Saint James School of Medicine" official Facebook page. I'd suggest that if you don't have consent to use a picture, don't use it. I've chosen not to link or post these pictures as an example, as I don't want to violate these indivduals as SJSM has.

The SJSM Facebook page is a public page where people go to check out the school. There is no justification for posting medical pictures that were taken with the consent of the patient, hinging on the fact that the picture would be used for medical education purposes only. The use of these pictures outside the scope for which they were intended, is a violation of the patient, who in their heart believed that a picture of them could help train future medical professionals.

dude how doyou have any knowledge of consent

I get it, but relax

 

[Bill Harvey]

dude how doyou have any knowledge of consent

I get it, but relax

Good point. I assumed they didn't get permission to use the pictures and I could definitely be wrong. I just figured that the parents of the children wouldn't want their kids medical condition being used in a "guess which child has Turner Syndrome" question on Facebook, so that someone could win a $50.00 gift certificate from Amazon. The pictures could have ended up in the creative commons, and if so, it's not illegal to use them from what I understand.

 

[LA2020]

I’m a student @ SJSM. Here are some of my thoughts….

Living Conditions:

This is something to truly consider. For example, depending on where you live (but generally speaking, this is the case for most places) there are few restaurants around, so if you are studying and want to grab something to eat, you might be out of luck unless you planned ahead. Let’s say you are tired of studying at home and at school and want to go to a local library or coffee shop, you will be out of luck because there are none. If you are tired of going from home to school, day in and day out, and want to just go somewhere, you are out of luck as there are no local buses/transportation. Your only option is taxis and this is very expensive. You absolutely need a car while you are studying in Anguilla; however, the school does not make mention of this, and this becomes an unexpected cost that the student must burden. The school does have a bus service that takes students from school to home, but the hours are very limited. Let’s say you finish class early at 3 pm (which is common, and even more so during exam time, or days you are not required to go to lab), the next bus will come at 5:00 pm so you will be stuck at school for 2 extra hours (also, you might live 15 mins from the school by car, but the bus first drops off the closest student’s from the school 1st, so your bus ride could be up to 1 hr each way). Conversely, if you start class late (for example, SJSM offers customized MD programs), let’s say at 11 am, you will have to take the 8 am bus (there are no later buses), and hang around at school for 3 hours before your first class. Worth noting, if you wanted to go to school on a weekend to study, you are out of luck as the school does not provide bus services on the weekend.

Teaching Conditions:

Profs simply read off the slides. They teach as if you have prior knowledge of the material (take into consideration, SJSM does not require the MCAT nor undergraduate science courses or health care experience). No elaborations. No examples. No context in order to understand the material. You have to do all of this on your own through supplemental material. This is an accelerated program (semesters are shorter than normal). You learn a full topic within a single 3-hour lecture. You are required to go to lab 1 day a week, you just pick the day that works best for you. Let’s say you have lab on Tuesday and your other classmate has lab on Wednesday. The material taught on Tuesday MAY NOT be the same as the material taught on Wednesday. If Tuesday’s class already did all of the dissections, then there will be no dissections left for the Wednesday class. On that topic, for Lab, there are 10-15 students surrounding a professor who does the dissections (also, the cadavers are old and rotten. So you are learning anatomy with a rotten cadaver). This is the anatomy lab for you, and it is only 1 day a week for 1 hour (you do not have access to the anatomy lab beyond the 1 day a week for 1 hour). There is not even a lab for Histology. Histology lab is simply 1 day a week for 1 hour and the prof shows histological slides on a PowerPoint. There are no microscopes. There are no tissue slides to observe. If a prof is required to teach for 2 hours, a good chunk of that time is allocated for breaks. Some profs have such a thick accent (and they do not use a microphone), and it is very hard to understand them. When it comes to the exams, you are graded on a curve, so you might have failed the course/test but b/c of the curve you end up passing the test/class. Not surprisingly, SJSM students have a difficult time passing the USMLE Step 1 exam. The school requires you to take their in-house USMLE exam before you take the actual USMLE Step 1 exam. And if you fail the school’s exam so many times, they will kick you out.

Structure of the program:

As a student, you are required to be in class from 8 am- 5 pm (take into consideration, some days you do leave early), Monday-Friday. If you miss class, the profs deduct a certain amount of percentage from your final grade in the course, and you can simply fail the class simply from missing a couple of classes. However, the teaching quality is ****, and a lot of the time, it is a waste of time to go to class, but you have no choice but to go to class. This is a big problem.

Finance:
There is no funding to front the cost of your medical education at SJSM. Most governments do not recognize SJSM as a qualifying institution for government loans (and with that being said, if you have undergraduate loans, you will still have to pay for that while at SJSM for this very reason). You might be able to get a private loan, but this largely depends on having a co-signor. If they do not have good credit, or very high income, or a good asset-debt ratio, it might be difficult to qualify for these loans. Of course, SJSM does not tell you about any of this. Some students do a Master’s Degree (from their home country) concurrently, while at SJSM, in order to help fund their medical education, but this can be difficult to do while being a medical student at the same time. The total cost of this program is nowhere near what is in their admissions booklet. You should truly do a thorough analysis of the TRUE cost of your medical education before you begin because if you start the program but midway through you can no longer pay for the program, whatever loan you originally took out, you must pay back (and this won’t be on a doctor’s salary).

The facility:
The library hours at the school are poor. If you arrive at school before 8 am the library is closed. When you use the school’s internet, they block common educational websites that most medical students use. So, in order to access this material at school, you will have to use your own internet data, and take into consideration, data is very expensive in the Caribbean. SJSM is literally a small building, on the main road. There is NO campus. No campus security. No Gym.

Housing:
The housing cost is extremely overpriced, and it is very hard to find housing close to the school.

The integrity of the school, profs, and higher-ups:
Depending on who you are talking to at SJSM (admissions vs. finance vs. deans) you get different information. The school changes rules/protocols as they see fit (to benefit them, and not the student), and they do not always make students aware of these changes.

If you are planning on attending SJSM, reach out to as many current students/pass students/ residents 1st to get a real, honest perspective on SJSM-- something the admissions/ deans are unable to provide a student

 

[Gambino.]

When you use the school’s internet, they block common educational websites that most medical students use. So, in order to access this material at school, you will have to use your own internet data, and take into consideration, data is very expensive in the Caribbean. SJSM is literally a small building, on the main road. There is NO campus. No campus security. No Gym.

Lmao never will I again make fun of Ross after reading this. I know a girl that actually passed her first year at SJSM but transferred to Ross over fear of SJ losing their CAAM-HP accreditation and potentially being unable to partake in the match starting 2023 due to the new ECFMG requirements going forward.

 

[125896]

How many students started when you did?
How many of them matched with you?

School Detail

 

[gyngyn]

School Detail

Sadly, there are no answers to my queries.

 

[acepinkdoc]

LOL what are these comments.
1. majority of the things they are saying about sjsm is a lie. i’m a second year. they’re not losing accreditation’s, they have 2 currently, qualify for fafsa(already submitted the forms to qualify), the school is waiting for sallie mae as well. they go by the book and work closely with them yo make sure they are doing their part.

2. every carribean is the same. i have friends from each school. professors aren’t always the best no matter where you go. even US schools.. you’ll have 1-2 that you just don’t match well with their teaching style… and that’s OKAY. because at the end of the day you have to learn how to discipline yourself and find different ways to study and how to work well with someone you don’t like. it’s life.

3. every one badmouthing the school clearly has never been there. the school is great. you’re graduating with 80k vs half a million of loans(with interest). i picked this school over an american school that i got into… why??? because lm going into primary care so why would i want to be half a million in debt instead of going to sjsm with scholarship. And i don’t regret it. A lot of my friends are stressed with loans and living in a tight budget while i’ll be able to start living off residency salary and not have to pay back so many loans.

4. MANYYYYY students match. so idk who you’re contacting because we have club meetings and constantly invite alums to speak. i could gladly send you the link to join our next meeting and hear from an alumni. also, i’ll gladly connect you with a bunch of sjsm alums from different states. lots of residency programs don’t update their pages but you can always go on their insta recognizing the new residents.

please message me for an actual student opinion instead of being brainwashed to follow someone’s idea of how YOUR path should look like.

 

[Gambino.]

LOL what are these comments.
1. majority of the things they are saying about sjsm is a lie. i’m a second year. they’re not losing accreditation’s, they have 2 currently, qualify for fafsa(already submitted the forms to qualify), the school is waiting for sallie mae as well. they go by the book and work closely with them yo make sure they are doing their part.

2. every carribean is the same. i have friends from each school. professors aren’t always the best no matter where you go. even US schools.. you’ll have 1-2 that you just don’t match well with their teaching style… and that’s OKAY. because at the end of the day you have to learn how to discipline yourself and find different ways to study and how to work well with someone you don’t like. it’s life.

3. every one badmouthing the school clearly has never been there. the school is great. you’re graduating with 80k vs half a million of loans(with interest). i picked this school over an american school that i got into… why??? because lm going into primary care so why would i want to be half a million in debt instead of going to sjsm with scholarship. And i don’t regret it. A lot of my friends are stressed with loans and living in a tight budget while i’ll be able to start living off residency salary and not have to pay back so many loans.

4. MANYYYYY students match. so idk who you’re contacting because we have club meetings and constantly invite alums to speak. i could gladly send you the link to join our next meeting and hear from an alumni. also, i’ll gladly connect you with a bunch of sjsm alums from different states. lots of residency programs don’t update their pages but you can always go on their insta recognizing the new residents.

please message me for an actual student opinion instead of being brainwashed to follow someone’s idea of how YOUR path should look like.

Saint James has roughly a ~25% admitted to graduated (not even necessarily matched) ratio on the World Directory of Medical Schools. Unless you have something to contradict that, anything else is irrelevant.

 

[Test Boy]

Saint James has roughly a ~25% admitted to graduated (not even necessarily matched) ratio on the World Directory of Medical Schools. Unless you have something to contradict that, anything else is irrelevant.

Most probably flunked out. This is what happens when mcats are not required and they just admit anyone who’s willing to pay.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

Saint James has roughly a ~25% admitted to graduated (not even necessarily matched) ratio on the World Directory of Medical Schools. Unless you have something to contradict that, anything else is irrelevant.

You do realize that this is St. Vincent campus data only, which opened in 2014 and started with classes of under 30 students for the first several years, meaning the attrition rate was very low. There isn't a 1-1 new student to graduate rate, you are grossly misreading the data.

 

[EmeraldDragon]

Most probably flunked out. This is what happens when mcats are not required and they just admit anyone who’s willing to pay.

Yeah look at all the people who flunked out.....

 

[acepinkdoc]

Saint James has roughly a ~25% admitted to graduated (not even necessarily matched) ratio on the World Directory of Medical Schools. Unless you have something to contradict that, anything else is irrelevant.

That hasn’t been updated for various schools. Look at the match list for residency. Classes usually are 30-40 students. We have great matches and i can gladly connect with students who have matched. But sure pay half a million dollar for another carribean school to end up matching in the same location

 

[acepinkdoc]

Yeah look at all the people who flunked out.....

Negativity. Such a shame instead of uplifting those graduates who worked hard to get there and matched even to top programs.

 

[Marche med student]

Honest question: Why are the numbers so different for the 2 campuses? Anguilla has way better numbers. Is the education better?

This is Saint Vincent:

Year	Admitted	Graduated
2019	93	25
2018	105	28
2017	103	22

Vs Anguilla:

Year	Admitted	Graduated
2019	109	60
2018	86	55
2017	125	43

 

[EmeraldDragon]

Honest question: Why are the numbers so different for the 2 campuses? Anguilla has way better numbers. Is the education better?

This is Saint Vincent:

Year	Admitted	Graduated
2019	93	25
2018	105	28
2017	103	22

Vs Anguilla:

Year	Admitted	Graduated
2019	109	60
2018	86	55
2017	125	43

This data isn't supposed to be 1:1. This is just the data for how many were admitted, and how many graduated. Without knowing the start year of the graduates, this data doesn't have any specific meaning beyond basic numbers for how many were admitted to the program in a year, and how many graduated.

Everyone here is so bitter and jaded about Caribbean med schools that they seize onto whatever they can and draw conclusions incorrectly from published data that they don't understand. There's more than 40 Caribbean medical schools. Many are unaccredited money-grabs, ESPECIALLY if they aren't accredited by this point (there's no way they'll make it to 2024) however the infrastructure and regulations are there for quality schools that give you the tools you need.

If Caribbean Medical School is something you are considering, please speak to matched Alumni from your school, make sure the school is accredited by CAAM-HP, ACCM, or the NVAO, make sure they post a match list every year, and make sure you know both the standard route through medical school for your country, what exams you'll need to pass, and basic licensing regulations for everywhere you might want to practice in the future. Using that knowledge, you'll be able to cut through bull**** from these forums and sales reps from untrustworthy schools. If that's too hard for you to do in advance of applying to medical school, you should reconsider your goals and motivations.

 

[gyngyn]

This data isn't supposed to be 1:1. This is just the data for how many were admitted, and how many graduated. Without knowing the start year of the graduates, this data doesn't have any specific meaning beyond basic numbers for how many were admitted to the program in a year, and how many graduated.

Everyone here is so bitter and jaded about Caribbean med schools that they seize onto whatever they can and draw conclusions incorrectly from published data that they don't understand. There's more than 40 Caribbean medical schools. Many are unaccredited money-grabs, ESPECIALLY if they aren't accredited by this point (there's no way they'll make it to 2024) however the infrastructure and regulations are there for quality schools that give you the tools you need.

If Caribbean Medical School is something you are considering, please speak to matched Alumni from your school, make sure the school is accredited by CAAM-HP, ACCM, or the NVAO, make sure they post a match list every year, and make sure you know both the standard route through medical school for your country, what exams you'll need to pass, and basic licensing regulations for everywhere you might want to practice in the future. Using that knowledge, you'll be able to cut through bull**** from these forums and sales reps from untrustworthy schools. If that's too hard for you to do in advance of applying to medical school, you should reconsider your goals and motivations.

One can learn a lot about a school by comparing the size of incoming classes compared to the number who graduate. In any school with more than about 6 years of graduating classes (and a relatively stable class size) a steady state is reached, even if the input and output are not from the same incoming class.

School-picked success stories are not an unbiased source of information.

 

[eppu]

Does any one has any insight of St james accreditation for next 3 years if one ready to start Clinical in few months.
I was told they are good till May 2022 and they are trying to get it extended for 3 more years through CAAM-HP