Saint James School of Medicine

[marsmddo]

Just saw a Youtube video where their VP saying 70 matches and almost 80% match rate.
But couldn't find the list of matches. If True its not bad for this school.. definitely improvement from past years..

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[deleted771945]

Just saw a Youtube video where their VP saying 70 matches and almost 80% match rate.
But couldn't find the list of matches. If True its not bad for this school.. definitely improvement from past years..

Even American MD/DO schools misrepresent their true match rates. Do NOT take that at face value.

 

[TopNepNep]

Current SJSM student.
I wouldn't overtly show the match list but its in their main website and in graduate success and in residency placements.

The 70 matches is probably true but don't believe in any % numbers they give but ~80% might sounds right. So ~20 didn't match.
That 70 matches includes 3 admission dates (Jan, May, Sept) classes. Also includes 2 different campuses with around same number of students between. We went from 100 students (60 online, 40 in person) from the september admission in one campus, now ~40 in second semester (with a few transfer students from Trinity/All Saints)
Our stats on NBME basic sciences comp first pass rate is ~10%. Every comp pass attempt adds 4 months. There are a few stories where some tried for 3 comp attempts (12 months) and still could not pass.

So the 70 matches may be right, but took around hundreds of students. Maybe my good guess would be around 350 first semester students, down to 70 matches.
I would take the raw numbers correct, and not look at their overly high % numbers.

 

[gyngyn]

Just saw a Youtube video where their VP saying 70 matches and almost 80% match rate.

What's missing here is the true denominator (as noted above).

 

[marsmddo]

Even American MD/DO schools misrepresent their true match rates. Do NOT take that at face value.

I know a MD school in Top 60 in Midwest who finds a way to get around low match rate. Couple of years back their match rate fell to 90%. ( 18 students didn't get matched ). So this school ( Deans) start dismissing students in 3rd year for low STEP score or failed STEP or some other reason and not disciplinary , they figure out that students with lower score were the ones who didn't get matched. There thinking was that minus these students they will have a better match rate. I personally knew 2 students who get kicked out in same year without any valid reason given to them. Before this the school was on probation so they were afraid that they might fall under probation again due to low match rates.

These schools will go out of way to maintain their rankings US or Caribbean both.

 

[marsmddo]

Current SJSM student.
I wouldn't overtly show the match list but its in their main website and in graduate success and in residency placements.

The 70 matches is probably true but don't believe in any % numbers they give but ~80% might sounds right. So ~20 didn't match.
That 70 matches includes 3 admission dates (Jan, May, Sept) classes. Also includes 2 different campuses with around same number of students between. We went from 100 students (60 online, 40 in person) from the september admission in one campus, now ~40 in second semester (with a few transfer students from Trinity/All Saints)
Our stats on NBME basic sciences comp first pass rate is ~10%. Every comp pass attempt adds 4 months. There are a few stories where some tried for 3 comp attempts (12 months) and still could not pass.

So the 70 matches may be right, but took around hundreds of students. Maybe my good guess would be around 350 first semester students, down to 70 matches.
I would take the raw numbers correct, and not look at their overly high % numbers.

We all know lot of students dont make it to the Clinical, they fail 1st year or never passed Step 1..

So of all the students who do pass Step 2 lets say the number is ~90 student for year 2023 match Cycle ~70 get into Residency that can translate to less then 80% match rate. Now some of these students might be the ones who are trying for 2nd or even 3rd time to get a match and they succeeded . Now other variable is that the match rate count the SOAP also or just the match on the day of matching ?
And what is the SOAP success rate is ? I think that info should be available for transparency.

 

[TopNepNep]

We all know lot of students dont make it to the Clinical, they fail 1st year or never passed Step 1..

So of all the students who do pass Step 2 lets say the number is ~90 student for year 2023 match Cycle ~70 get into Residency that can translate to less then 80% match rate. Now some of these students might be the ones who are trying for 2nd or even 3rd time to get a match and they succeeded . Now other variable is that the match rate count the SOAP also or just the match on the day of matching ?
And what is the SOAP success rate is ? I think that info should be available for transparency.

I heard of stories of those trying 2nd and 3rd time matching. Wish them the best.
I wish those stats exist but inflating % looks good on paper as a business and as a medical school.

 

[gyngyn]

Couple of years back their match rate fell to 90%. ( 18 students didn't get matched ). So this school ( Deans) start dismissing students in 3rd year for low STEP score or failed STEP or some other reason and not disciplinary , they figure out that students with lower score were the ones who didn't get matched. There thinking was that minus these students they will have a better match rate. I personally knew 2 students who get kicked out in same year without any valid reason given to them. Before this the school was on probation so they were afraid that they might fall under probation again due to low match rates.

Schools are required to follow policies outlined in the student handbook.
If they were on probation, the last thing they would pull are stunts like this.

 

[marsmddo]

Schools are required to follow policies outlined in the student handbook.
If they were on probation, the last thing they would do are stunts like this.

This happened 3 years after they were removed from probation. School was back in green.
Dean of student affair was let go and was blamed for initial probation. Dean actually fixed the issue and school probation ended and then he was let go. New Young Dean started this stunt. He was asked where it said in the Handbook and his reply was I wrote the Handbook and its in the process of getting updated.

 

[marsmddo]

I heard of stories of those trying 2nd and 3rd time matching. Wish them the best.
I wish those stats exist but inflating % looks good on paper as a business and as a medical school.

I was able to see the number 72 matches and names of individual and hospitals for 2023 on their Main Web site under Graduate success.
That number is pretty impressive for a school size this small as compare to big 3 in the Caribbean..

 

[gyngyn]

Dean actually fixed the issue and school probation ended and then he was let go. New Young Dean started this stunt. He was asked where it said in the Handbook and his reply was I wrote the Handbook and its in the process of getting updated.

PM me the name of the school, if you'd like me to investigate.
I'm familiar with the top schools in the midwest. None of them have been on probation in my memory. One school in Illinois has been on probation in the not too distant past, though.

 

[gyngyn]

I was able to see the number 72 matches and names of individual and hospitals for 2023 on their Main Web site under Graduate success.
That number is pretty impressive for a school size this small as compare to big 3 in the Caribbean..

72/350 is a 20% placement.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

72/350 isn't good. But your math is off -- that's about 20%. Still very problematic.

 

[gyngyn]

72/350 isn't good. But your math is off -- that's about 20%. Still very problematic.

You are right!

 

[marsmddo]

72/350 isn't good. But your math is off -- that's about 20%. Still very problematic.

where the 350 number coming from ? If its the initial count the number admitted then yes its 20%.
I was looking at the number of students ( ~90-95) who actually applied for residencies in 2023 cycle not the number of students who were admitted to the school and never made it to Clinical except few ..

 

[gyngyn]

where the 350 number coming from ? If its the initial count the number admitted then yes its 20%.
I was looking at the number of students ( ~90-95) who actually applied for residencies in 2023 cycle not the number of students who were admitted to the school and never made it to Clinical except few ..

The number of cohorts per year and the size of those cohorts (made made by a student at the school above) gets us to that figure.
As the Caribbean schools have no requirement to be truthful, we are left to rely on best estimates.
Students applying to these schools are the target of willful misinformation, so we have to do the best we can to allow for a realistic risk analysis.

 

[TopNepNep]

I guess ill do some math so there's no confusion, this is just my opinion and guess:
We also have transfer students but not included.
1st semster admissions:
September (largest admission) 100 students (60 online, 40 in-person)
Jan and May admissions have very similar number of students around 40 students
= 40+40+100 = 180

2 campuses (Saint Vincent and Anguilla), both have similar amount of students
= 180 x 2
= ~360 MD1 (1st semster) students.

 

[marsmddo]

I guess ill do some math so there's no confusion, this is just my opinion and guess:
We also have transfer students but not included.
1st semster admissions:
September (largest admission) 100 students (60 online, 40 in-person)
Jan and May admissions have very similar number of students around 40 students
= 40+40+100 = 180

2 campuses (Saint Vincent and Anguilla), both have similar amount of students
= 180 x 2
= ~360 MD1 (1st semster) students.

But of those ~360 MD1 how many actually going to end up passing Step 1& 2 so they can apply for a Residency.
To me that number is the denominator to calculate the matching percentage. I agree overall percentage is very low if we consider the # of MD1 students but as your stats mentioned most of them didn't even make it to 2nd semester and more will fail till they reach 5th Semester into Clinical.

Do you have any stats on what mean or average STEP 1 & 2 scores they getting if they reached that far..

Thanks for your posting, Are you MD1 or MD2 ?

 

[TopNepNep]

Thanks for your posting, Are you MD1 or MD2 ?

I am currently in my 2nd semster (MD2)

but as your stats mentioned most of them didn't even make it to 2nd semester and more will fail till they reach 5th Semester into Clinical.

The biggest decrease in students is from 1st semester to 2nd, but many have their reasons for dropping out. I can list some of reasons from students that left:
- applied another medical school in US or Canada and got in while doing MD1, one of my friends got in dental school in Australia and left
- since 60 were online, some wanted to "try out" medicine and became disinterested and left because its less of a commitment when being online student
- some have family commitments back home and personal reasons.
So theres a whole slew of reasons for dropping out.
There are some that do fail, they leave on their own choice and repeat their courses or whole semester. (From my experience this number is small)

You can just call this medical school a "try out" medical school, or a "gateway" medical school for people who dont have MCAT or good academic background and relatively cheap tuition.

Do you have any stats on what mean or average STEP 1 & 2 scores they getting if they reached that far..

I would be surprise if our school post that stat. STEP 1 is P/F so that may not be possible. Caribbean schools try to flaunt their STEP 1 pass rate and ours got into trouble by the FTC .

 

[spudbunny]

Current SJSM student.
I wouldn't overtly show the match list but its in their main website and in graduate success and in residency placements.

The 70 matches is probably true but don't believe in any % numbers they give but ~80% might sounds right. So ~20 didn't match.
That 70 matches includes 3 admission dates (Jan, May, Sept) classes. Also includes 2 different campuses with around same number of students between. We went from 100 students (60 online, 40 in person) from the september admission in one campus, now ~40 in second semester (with a few transfer students from Trinity/All Saints)
Our stats on NBME basic sciences comp first pass rate is ~10%. Every comp pass attempt adds 4 months. There are a few stories where some tried for 3 comp attempts (12 months) and still could not pass.

So the 70 matches may be right, but took around hundreds of students. Maybe my good guess would be around 350 first semester students, down to 70 matches.
I would take the raw numbers correct, and not look at their overly high % numbers.

Are there online students currently in MD1 - 5 at SJSM?

 

[TopNepNep]

Are there online students currently in MD1 - 5 at SJSM?

Only MD1 has virtual option, there are currently students who are online in MD1. The virtual option is used especially for the september admission because the admission size is larger and the classrooms are small (can hold ~50 students).

 

[spudbunny]

Only MD1 has virtual option, there are currently students who are online in MD1. The virtual option is used especially for the september admission because the admission size is larger and the classrooms are small (can hold ~50 students).

Is anyone besides me surprised that they are offering a virtual semester?

 

[xffan624]

Is anyone besides me surprised that they are offering a virtual semester?

I'm sure they have their rea$on$.

 

[stethan]

SJSM teaches their MD online?

 

[Highlander455]

Online surprised me. I have a vague recollection that precovid there used to be restrictions on med schools offering online learning by one or more of the major US organizations that oversee IMGs. Anyone else remember this? Has it changed post covid?

 

[stethan]

Online surprised me. I have a vague recollection that precovid there used to be restrictions on med schools offering online learning by one or more of the major US organizations that oversee IMGs. Anyone else remember this? Has it changed post covid?

That is also what I thought. I'm pretty sure all schools taught online during that time, but not sure how that might affect accreditation, if anything. Either way, who knew.

 

[marsmddo]

US Medical schools which allowed virtual classes, pre covid, during covid and post covid, in those schools barely 10% students shows up in the classrooms. I knew few who only went to class to take the Exam or the Labs.. and currently they in residencies..

 

[Payback123]

Teaching on line to reduce costs. This place has to be starving for $ after paying out to the FTC last Spring, as well as crushing any type of school credibility. Comments made regarding match rate % is leaving one component out. Graduates are taking up to 5 years to match, this info. isnt disclosed. So take about 175 enrollments a year and you have an awful %. Not surprising with a weak curriculum, instructor(s) and an unlicensed(stripped in NY and FL in mid 2000s) dean teaching at Anguilla campus, this place pursues the weak to try and stay afloat.

 

[dhanson]

Current SJSM student.
I wouldn't overtly show the match list but its in their main website and in graduate success and in residency placements.

The 70 matches is probably true but don't believe in any % numbers they give but ~80% might sounds right. So ~20 didn't match.
That 70 matches includes 3 admission dates (Jan, May, Sept) classes. Also includes 2 different campuses with around same number of students between. We went from 100 students (60 online, 40 in person) from the september admission in one campus, now ~40 in second semester (with a few transfer students from Trinity/All Saints)
Our stats on NBME basic sciences comp first pass rate is ~10%. Every comp pass attempt adds 4 months. There are a few stories where some tried for 3 comp attempts (12 months) and still could not pass.

So the 70 matches may be right, but took around hundreds of students. Maybe my good guess would be around 350 first semester students, down to 70 matches.
I would take the raw numbers correct, and not look at their overly high % numbers.

Why are these students not passing? Are they not using Boards & Beyond or another USMLE prep program? I am accepted for Fall 2023 and am concerned about the class where 0 people passed on the first try. I think a current MS2 who told me that during the covid year, nobody passed it on the first shot. Why aren't these students passing? Are the courses not aligned with what you need to know? Should we be studying from secondary sources? I am also interested in seeing what the attrition rate truly is.

 

[dhanson]

SJSM teaches their MD online?

No, this appeared to be a COVID measure. Incoming student here, they are requiring us to go to the Island.

 

[dhanson]

Just saw a Youtube video where their VP saying 70 matches and almost 80% match rate.
But couldn't find the list of matches. If True its not bad for this school.. definitely improvement from past years..

They got in trouble years back for misinformation -- million dollars + payout, so I am inclined to think it is correct, mainly since they publish their matches now.

 

[gyngyn]

They got in trouble years back for misinformation -- million dollars + payout, so I am inclined to think it is correct, mainly since they publish their matches now.

Even if the placements are true, an 80% attrition is certainly off-putting.

 

[TopNepNep]

No, this appeared to be a COVID measure. Incoming student here, they are requiring us to go to the Island.

Yep they got rid of the virtual for MD1 this semster, but we shall see for sept admission when trying to fit ~100 students in a classroom. The current MD2 has 50+ students and everyone barely fits.