Salary of optometrist in US vs Canada

[sceye]

Any recent grads willing to share what their starting salary is in whichever state/province you are working? I am in the process of looking for jobs and I would like to know what to expect as a new grad.

Input from both Canadian and US ODs appreciated!

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[stonegoat]

Any recent grads willing to share what their starting salary is in whichever state/province you are working? I am in the process of looking for jobs and I would like to know what to expect as a new grad.

Input from both Canadian and US ODs appreciated!

These kind of threads always seem to get pretty emotional, as those not making much money, cannot believe that others are, or that there are still great opportunities available.

My advise to new grads is don't be afraid to work hard.

If you want income specifics for Canada, PM me.

 

[socal2014]

Optometry in Canada =

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/info...April-1-08.pdf

Optometry in the States =

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...P010OG4rrNKIXA

Clearly, you can see it is easier for the American OD to accumulate wealth, than the Canadian counterpart.

 

[stonegoat]

Optometry in Canada =

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/info...April-1-08.pdf

Optometry in the States =

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...P010OG4rrNKIXA

Clearly, you can see it is easier for the American OD to accumulate wealth, than the Canadian counterpart.

These links are misleading. In BC the government only pays about $46 for a full exam (the fee increased last year), BUT an OD can charge whatever they want, and the patient must pay the difference. It's just like dentistry. So, If I charge $100 for a full exam, and the patient is covered under provincial MSP, then they must pay ~$54 OUT OF POCKET. MSP only pays ~$31 for visual fields, but I can charge whatever I want, and the patient must pay the difference...again, just like dentistry, at least here in BC.

My understanding is that with US vision plans, balanced billing is not permitted, so that if VSP or whoever pays $67, then that's all you can get.

One more thing. I am booked SOLID about 2-4 weeks in advance. I see ~ 20-22 patients everyday. My associate, who has been working with me only since June, is fully-booked everyday. My colleagues in the northern part of the province are booked solid for ~4 months.

It doesn't matter what you charge for services, if no one is in your chair you won't make money, and according to this forum, there are lots of ODs in the US twiddling their thumbs, seeing only a few patients/day.

I'm sure there are still excellent opportunities in the US within private practice in the US, but if the OP is considering a move back to Canada, then I want them to be informed that there is great potential here.

Lastly, socal2014, you seem to have a vendetta against optometry in Canada. When you get out in the real world and start looking for work in California, the reality of optometry there will depress you. PM me at that time, I may be able to put you to work

 

[stoikiometry]

I work at an optometrist office in the greater Toronto area. The two optometrists are always fully booked. One was working today 8-5 and had about ~25 patients scheduled. Most were 15 minute sessions and a few were 40 minutes.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

One more thing. I am booked SOLID about 2-4 weeks in advance. I see ~ 20-22 patients everyday. My associate, who has been working with me only since June, is fully-booked everyday. My colleagues in the northern part of the province are booked solid for ~4 months.

It doesn't matter what you charge for services, if no one is in your chair you won't make money, and according to this forum, there are lots of ODs in the US twiddling their thumbs, seeing only a few patients/day.

I think you have a great situation and setup stonegoat. Being able to balance bill the patient would be a big win in optometry in the states. $67 from a vision plan is pretty top tier here, most are in the range of $40-$48 including dilation. Heck I can't even get an plumber, Heating and Air guy to come to my house for less than $80.00.

 

[socal2014]

These links are misleading. In BC the government only pays about $46 for a full exam (the fee increased last year), BUT an OD can charge whatever they want, and the patient must pay the difference. It's just like dentistry. So, If I charge $100 for a full exam, and the patient is covered under provincial MSP, then they must pay ~$54 OUT OF POCKET. MSP only pays ~$31 for visual fields, but I can charge whatever I want, and the patient must pay the difference...again, just like dentistry, at least here in BC.

My understanding is that with US vision plans, balanced billing is not permitted, so that if VSP or whoever pays $67, then that's all you can get.

One more thing. I am booked SOLID about 2-4 weeks in advance. I see ~ 20-22 patients everyday. My associate, who has been working with me only since June, is fully-booked everyday. My colleagues in the northern part of the province are booked solid for ~4 months.

It doesn't matter what you charge for services, if no one is in your chair you won't make money, and according to this forum, there are lots of ODs in the US twiddling their thumbs, seeing only a few patients/day.

I'm sure there are still excellent opportunities in the US within private practice in the US, but if the OP is considering a move back to Canada, then I want them to be informed that there is great potential here.

Lastly, socal2014, you seem to have a vendetta against optometry in Canada. When you get out in the real world and start looking for work in California, the reality of optometry there will depress you. PM me at that time, I may be able to put you to work

Sure, you can charge w.e you want for an eye exam, but do you really?

Assume I was a 17 year old female. Since I am under 18, I qualify for MSP, BUT, you charge $100 for an eye exam for which the patient would have to pay the difference. Now, why would I visit your office for the annual eye exam and actually pay monies to you instead of the OD next door who provides "Free" eye exams, i.e. just the msp fee which is paid by the gov? (This is for teens, kids etc)

 

[KHE]

Sure, you can charge w.e you want for an eye exam, but do you really?

Assume I was a 17 year old female. Since I am under 18, I qualify for MSP, BUT, you charge $100 for an eye exam for which the patient would have to pay the difference. Now, why would I visit your office for the annual eye exam and actually pay monies to you instead of the OD next door who provides "Free" eye exams, i.e. just the msp fee which is paid by the gov? (This is for teens, kids etc)

Why would you stay at the Four Seasons when you can stay at the Motel 6?

 

[stonegoat]

Sure, you can charge w.e you want for an eye exam, but do you really?

Assume I was a 17 year old female. Since I am under 18, I qualify for MSP, BUT, you charge $100 for an eye exam for which the patient would have to pay the difference. Now, why would I visit your office for the annual eye exam and actually pay monies to you instead of the OD next door who provides "Free" eye exams, i.e. just the msp fee which is paid by the gov? (This is for teens, kids etc)

I don't know of a single optometrist who doesn't balance bill to a higher customary fee. The only patients that I don't bill beyond the government insurance are kids up to age 12. I want to eliminate as many barriers to eye care as I can for patients during their amblyogenic years.

Also, the nearest "commercial" optometric practice is a 3 hour drive from my office, however, they charge a high fee anyway, so it's a non-issue.

I recommend you change your way of thinking about fee structures before you get into your career. If you think you need to be the cheapest option for patients in order to stay busy, you WILL fail. There are aleady a lot of bottom-feeders out there, who will play the bottom-feeding game better than you. Offer premium services and products and charge premium fees, and you will do well.

Really, you don't want the type of patient in your chair that wants a "free" exam anyway. I have found that the patients who want everything for free are also the biggest complainers, and are generally a pain in the butt.

 

[quackquack]

I don't know too much about US ODs but I'm in Canada. The optometrist I know is always booked for months in advanced and sees at least 18 a day (on weekends about 20-25). He charges about $100 and I think $120something with DFE and slightly more for LASIK patients post-care. A lot of people under province health insurance see him because it is covered. But there are also plenty of people willing to pay out of pocket. I pay out of pocket, because I feel like he's been in the field for a long time and knows what he's doing. He grosses about $500K-1000K annually. (A lot of it probably comes from sales of course, but my point is that a lot of people go see him for what he charges).

On the other hand, near my house is another OD charging about $50. This OD is newer of course. However from my understanding he doesn't have nearly as much patients and is mostly free when my friend books for appointments. So while some people are trying to save a dollar here and there, some will go for the more experienced ODs. Plus my OD knows like 3 languages, so that attracts people too.

Just my thoughts. I live in a big city. There may be better opportunities in less populated places. Location may help too; his place is near plaza stores with people streaming in and out. The other OD is in a quiet plaza with a dying grocery chain. *shrugs

Edit: Also I want to add that this OD has WORKED HIS WAY UP. When I first came to Canada years and years ago, his clinic was in a pretty DEAD plaza and my mom's master bedroom is bigger than his whole clinic (it was THAT squishy). He had no material sales then. He charged little for his exams back then too. YEARS LATER he has a great client base, moved to a better lot, and basically made a way of living for himself. AND he still finds time to do research. Those successful ODs didn't come out and had it made for them. I think NOW that there are even more ODs than before, new grads should be prepared for how much harder they need to work compared to those ODs back then!

 

[socal2014]

I don't know of a single optometrist who doesn't balance bill to a higher customary fee. The only patients that I don't bill beyond the government insurance are kids up to age 12. I want to eliminate as many barriers to eye care as I can for patients during their amblyogenic years.

Also, the nearest "commercial" optometric practice is a 3 hour drive from my office, however, they charge a high fee anyway, so it's a non-issue.

I recommend you change your way of thinking about fee structures before you get into your career. If you think you need to be the cheapest option for patients in order to stay busy, you WILL fail. There are aleady a lot of bottom-feeders out there, who will play the bottom-feeding game better than you. Offer premium services and products and charge premium fees, and you will do well.

Really, you don't want the type of patient in your chair that wants a "free" exam anyway. I have found that the patients who want everything for free are also the biggest complainers, and are generally a pain in the butt.

One word : Rural.

 

[stonegoat]

One word : Rural.

One word: Successful

 

[Optogal]

One word: Successful

Do you believe you would be as successful if you were working in Vancouver?

 

[stonegoat]

Do you believe you would be as successful if you were working in Vancouver?

I doubt it. Vancouver is quite saturated, and the vast majority of new registrants who come to BC locate in the Lower Mainland or Victoria. Most ODs are from urban areas and "rural" areas are simply under the radar for them. There are good opportunities in the Fraser Valley, though. One of my colleagues located in Abbotsford to work in a large multi-doctor private practice, and is doing extremely well.

The town where I practice has all the amenities of a larger centre, is friendly, affluent and very picturesque, but the reality is most new ODs are drawn to the big city. From a professional prospective, you will certainly have a much greater chance of being included in the "medical" sphere in a more rural setting - I get referrals from primary care physicians on a daily basis, and truly do get to use the full extent of my training.

There is nothing wrong with locating in a large urban centre, but it will most likely take longer to build your dream practice.

For those who would like to learn about an incredible professional opportunity in northern BC (i.e goldmine), PM me.

 

[socal2014]

Do you believe you would be as successful if you were working in Vancouver?

No.

Stonegoat believes Canada is the best place to practice Optometry because he practices in a rural location. Any OD can generate massive profits in a rural setting because there is no competition.

 

[Optogal]

I doubt it. Vancouver is quite saturated, and the vast majority of new registrants who come to BC locate in the Lower Mainland or Victoria.

Do you if/how the change in regulations from May (re: optician refraction) has affected the profession in BC?

 

[socal2014]

I don't know of a single optometrist who doesn't balance bill to a higher customary fee. The only patients that I don't bill beyond the government insurance are kids up to age 12. I want to eliminate as many barriers to eye care as I can for patients during their amblyogenic years.

Also, the nearest "commercial" optometric practice is a 3 hour drive from my office, however, they charge a high fee anyway, so it's a non-issue.

I recommend you change your way of thinking about fee structures before you get into your career. If you think you need to be the cheapest option for patients in order to stay busy, you WILL fail. There are aleady a lot of bottom-feeders out there, who will play the bottom-feeding game better than you. Offer premium services and products and charge premium fees, and you will do well.

Really, you don't want the type of patient in your chair that wants a "free" exam anyway. I have found that the patients who want everything for free are also the biggest complainers, and are generally a pain in the butt.

I thought ever OD balance bills!?