School Psychology *PD*?

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I'm new here, but this forum has become a bit of an obsession in the last few weeks as I've been getting to know the cast of characters. Hey, hi. So...

I don't want to belabor my background info in case you've seen it in previous posts, but the quick version is that I'd like to come back to the mental health field (I have a BA in psych, MSW) after eight years working in clinical research. I'd love to pursue a PhD in Clinical or School Psychology, but I worry about the toll it would take on my family (I've got young kids). I also cannot relocate for any portion of it. So I'm trying to explore options, from certificates to PhDs, with an open mind. My main areas of interest are, in very general terms, children/families/school.

I've just discovered the School Psychology PD (not PhD) program at Fordham. I'd never heard of this before. Anyone know anything about this or have any thoughts?

Here's the site: http://www.fordham.edu/info/21019/school_psychology/2956/school_psychology_pd

From what I can see, it will prepare you for licensure as a school psychologist and end there (no licensure as a psychologist, obv). The education seems to be practica/internship-heavy (which, yay), and really hits all my areas of interest. It may be a good option for me, but I'm concerned about the ROI. It's 66 expensive credits. I'm going to doubt there's any funding for this since it's a "professional diploma / advanced certificate." How would employers perceive this among a pool of PhD applicants? How would this appear on my resume/CV (not like I can say Biscuits Biscuits, PD across the top. What is that, Pumpkin Donuts? Play Dough?). Etc., etc.

Fordham is a decent school, but even good schools have some programs that probably just generate revenue. So yadda, yadda.

TL;DR: Value of Professional Diploma/Advanced Certificate in School Psychology?

Any thoughts? Thanks!

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[deleted343839]

I just read the program stats. Interestingly there are no data on job placements: http://legacy.fordham.edu/academics/gainful_employment_s/school_psychology_79373.asp

Personally, I would not pay $78K for anything less than a bona fide doctoral degree from a reputable program. But, given your constraints, your main question is whether you will be able to secure gainful employment with a reasonable salary at the end of the program. Since relocating for graduate school is not an option for you right now, I suppose it is not necessarily limiting that the program is specifically designed for New York state licensure requirements (and surely less portable than a traditional degree). However, you should also seriously think through the scope of practice issue. Is school psychology really the only thing you want to do? For that kind of investment it had better be.

My suggestion is that you do a little homework on the job market for school psychologists in your local area. Join your city/regional psychology or school psychology association and try to reach out to established people in the field to get the low down on this program. Find out what the local school districts are looking for in their applicants and the qualifications that are typical for the people who are working in the schools right now. Call the districts directly and ask to speak with their recruiters. There is no harm in asking. I will venture a guess that this program is not viewed as favorably as a traditional educational psych degree, but of course you'll want answers directly from those in the know.

TL;DR: Not a good value. Trust but verify.

 

[bmedclinic]

When I saw the thread title, I thought "Oh no, now they have a personality disorder for school psychologists?"

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I just read the program stats. Interestingly there are no data on job placements: http://legacy.fordham.edu/academics/gainful_employment_s/school_psychology_79373.asp

Personally, I would not pay $78K for anything less than a bona fide doctoral degree from a reputable program. But, given your constraints, your main question is whether you will be able to secure gainful employment with a reasonable salary at the end of the program. Since relocating for graduate school is not an option for you right now, I suppose it is not necessarily limiting that the program is specifically designed for New York state licensure requirements (and surely less portable than a traditional degree). However, you should also seriously think through the scope of practice issue. Is school psychology really the only thing you want to do? For that kind of investment it had better be.

My suggestion is that you do a little homework on the job market for school psychologists in your local area. Join your city/regional psychology or school psychology association and try to reach out to established people in the field to get the low down on this program. Find out what the local school districts are looking for in their applicants and the qualifications that are typical for the people who are working in the schools right now. Call the districts directly and ask to speak with their recruiters. There is no harm in asking. I will venture a guess that this program is not viewed as favorably as a traditional educational psych degree, but of course you'll want answers directly from those in the know.

Thanks, MamaPhD. You confirmed a lot of my concerns about the program. I think I just needed to hear it from someone else. The cost is extremely high for a program that offers no real degree and without aid of some kind, it wouldn't be feasible.

I do have an MSW so I'd have a little more flexibility in terms of career, but you're right about the narrowness of this particular program's scope. Good advice to try to talk to people about it and do more research re hire-ability with this degree. I'll look into it but I'm not optimistic.

*sigh*

Not sure where to turn.

 

[empathiosis]

Just sent you a PM about this program.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I'm no expert in this, but I wonder why they didn't make it at least a masters degree of some kind. I think it's more than enough credits. That's a lot of time and money for... licensure, I guess? Or is licensure and training (but no degree) worth 78k?

 

[smalltownpsych]

I am confused. If you have an MSW why would you be looking at becoming a school psychologist? In our state, they have contracted counselors who have to be licensed clinicians and work with the kids in the schools. In another state, I was a contracted person who went to schools to conduct psychotherapy, risk assessments, and crisis interventions while they had an MA level school psychologist who only did testing for learning disabilities. I don't know what the market is like in your area, but why not work as a school social worker? I imagine that you would spend 78k and still make the same or maybe even less money than you would as a social worker and I don't know if would really open up anymore doors.

 

[deleted343839]

The OP worked in research for a number of years and is looking to get back into the clinical field. It's an interesting problem. People always say it's easier to transition from research to clinical than the other way around. In broad strokes I think that's true, but when you're not licensed or don't maintain a license it's actually pretty challenging to find the right kind of training to move back into a clinical role.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

The OP worked in research for a number of years and is looking to get back into the clinical field. It's an interesting problem. People always say it's easier to transition from research to clinical than the other way around. In broad strokes I think that's true, but when you're not licensed or don't maintain a license it's actually pretty challenging to find the right kind of training to move back into a clinical role.

Yes, thank you. That is exactly my predicament. I don't necessarily need another degree, but I do need experience/training/supervision and i can't think of a way to get that without going back to school.

 

[Chalupacabra]

This looks like the exact equivalent to the CAS/EdS/CAGS (the entry level degree for school psych, sort of in between an MA/MS and doctorate). I don't know why they feel compelled to add to the alphabet soup of the profession.

If you can do it I recommend going straight for an SP doctorate if that's your field of choice. For me it wasn't a realistic option since I was changing professions, but it would have saved me some time and money.

 

[schoolpsy21]

A P.D in school psychology is the same as any other specialist-level school psychology program. It can be considered a Masters level degree to make things easy to understand. This degree at Fordham is the same as other specialist-level programs (60+ credit masters programs often abbreviated M.A., M.S., Ed.S., etc), it is NOT a doctoral degree. Fordham has a Ph.D program in school psychology.

So this is a real degree, Fordham just used a weird abbreviation. FYI - funding at Fordham is few and far in between for this program and its doctoral school psych program. There are better school psych (Masters & Doctoral) choices in the NY metro area

 

[smalltownpsych]

Yes, thank you. That is exactly my predicament. I don't necessarily need another degree, but I do need experience/training/supervision and i can't think of a way to get that without going back to school.

Why not apply for therapist jobs along with the more recent MSW grads who are looking to get hours for licensure? Having that background in research would have made me consider you as a good candidate when I was hiring green therapists. I don't know enough about the MSW to LCSW track to know feasibility of this option.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

A P.D in school psychology is the same as any other specialist-level school psychology program. It can be considered a Masters level degree to make things easy to understand. This degree at Fordham is the same as other specialist-level programs (60+ credit masters programs often abbreviated M.A., M.S., Ed.S., etc), it is NOT a doctoral degree. Fordham has a Ph.D program in school psychology.

So this is a real degree, Fordham just used a weird abbreviation. FYI - funding at Fordham is few and far in between for this program and its doctoral school psych program. There are better school psych (Masters & Doctoral) choices in the NY metro area

Thanks, SchoolPsy. I realize it's not a PhD. I was confused because the PD involves taking more credits and an additional full-year internship above what most master's programs require (usually ~48 credits from what I've seen, and no full-time year-long internship). So it's more work and more money for a degree I'd never heard of. I'm learning more about it now, though.

I will take some time to google NYC school programs, but if you know of any that offer more funding off the top of your head I'd love to hear about them. A first-person account is always better than marketing. Thanks!


*edited to add that I was wrong about masters programs being all around 48 credits. I see that masters degrees in education fields are usually 60-69.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

Why not apply for therapist jobs along with the more recent MSW grads who are looking to get hours for licensure? Having that background in research would have made me consider you as a good candidate when I was hiring green therapists. I don't know enough about the MSW to LCSW track to know feasibility of this option.

Thanks, Smalltownpsych. I'm considering that, but I feel like I'd be at the bottom of the heap since I'm so far from my clinical training. Maybe I am wrong about that, based on what you said. It can't hurt to apply.

Ideally, I'd also like a career with a little more than clinical work (I'd like to do the testing involved in school psych, and the option of teaching is appealing), so it seemed like all signs pointed to going back to school.

This has all been very helpful and I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to reply.

 

[Chalupacabra]

. I was confused because the PD involves taking more credits and an additional full-year internship above what most master's programs require (usually ~48 credits from what I've seen, and no full-time year-long internship). So it's more work and more money for a degree I'd never heard of. I'm learning more about it now, though.

A P.D in school psychology is the same as any other specialist-level school psychology program. It can be considered a Masters level degree to make things easy to understand. This degree at Fordham is the same as other specialist-level programs (60+ credit masters programs often abbreviated M.A., M.S., Ed.S., etc), it is NOT a doctoral degree. Fordham has a Ph.D program in school psychology.

Again, this is not a master's degree, and most of these programs include some sort of non-terminal MA/MS that is earned within the first two years of training, so I think this explanation is a little misleading. It's a specialist-level degree (also sometimes called a Certificate of Advanced Study, EdS, or Certificate of Advanced Graduate Study, depending on the school/region) which is considered the minimum to practice as a school psychologist by the National Association of School Psychologists and virtually all states. I don't mean to be pedantic but I think it's an important distinction to understand - I earned 25+ credits after I received my MS, and some programs pack in even more than that, so I don't think it's accurate to refer to it as the equivalent of an MA/MS. Considering the amount of additional work required, that'd be like saying a bachelor's level practitioner and master's level practitioner were the same thing.

Personally, this strikes me as a fairly transparent marketing ploy by Fordham - I'm sure it's not a coincidence that the term very closely mirrors the title of PhD and I only found one other university using it.