School without a true home program - how much will it hurt?

[Charles_Carmichael]

Hey guys,

I'm hoping to get some advice from you all regarding what kind of effects attending a school without a true home program might have on residency chances. I'm fully aware that there's a chance that I'll end up changing my mind regarding specialty during med school and I'm okay with that. But as some of you may have realized by now (due to my excessive posting in this forum! ), I've been interested in radonc for a while now and am currently involved in bench research in this field, which has only increased my interest in it.

I'm trying to decide between two schools and, while I'm very grateful to be in this position, it's been more difficult trying to decide on a school than I anticipated it to be. The schools I'm trying to decide between are the University of Illinois-Chicago (UIC...I was placed in the Chicago campus) and the Medical College of Wisconsin (MCW). For the most part, there isn't a huge difference between the schools for me: there isn't a significant difference in cost, based on rough calculations (UIC is a bit more expensive since the cost of living in Chicago is higher than Milwaukee) and I feel that I'll be happy at both places, for the most part. With that being said, I do have a preference for UIC since it's in Chicago and I would strongly prefer to live in a busy city rather than in Milwaukee; the fact that I have several great friends in the Chicago area is also a bonus.

The thing that concerns me is that UIC doesn't have a true home program. I've been told that the UChicago/UIC program, though it includes UIC in the name, is primarily a UChicago program and that it's not considered UIC's home program. It looks like I can do a radonc elective at the UIC Medical Center (http://chicago.medicine.uic.edu/cms/One.aspx?portalId=506244&pageId=697538) and I've had the chance to correspond with a faculty member and a current M4 (at UIC...and has been a great help!) who matched into radonc, both of whom confirmed that I'd be able to conduct research at UChicago and have the opportunity to work with the faculty at UChicago. While it comforts me that I'd be able to conduct research at what is considered a top program (based on what I've read on SDN), I've also seen on SDN that not having a true home program can be a big disadvantage (based on previous threads).

MCW has a home program, though I don't know as much about it since there are very few posts about this program in the Interview Impressions thread. It seems to be considered more of a mid-tier program (again, based on what I've read on SDN) and I'm just starting to get in touch with faculty there to gauge the kind of research opportunities they have there. My ultimate negative for MCW though is that I'm not a big fan of the location; I prefer the bustle of the city.

So, my question is, would I really put myself at a disadvantage if I decided to go with UIC which, though it's affiliated with the UChicago program, doesn't have a true home program? Or would attending MCW really make a lot more sense if I do end up sticking with radonc? I do prefer UIC since I like the location better, have several friends in the Chicago area, and it seems to have a really strong reputation for providing an excellent clinical experience. It's been pointed out that it's good that I found the field this early and that I'm already involved in research; I'm also planning on doing things like applying to the MSKCC summer research program, making sure to do several away rotations, etc, so I feel like attending UIC shouldn't have a big negative effect if I end up applying to radonc. Like I said earlier, I fully understand that there's a chance I will be changing my mind about specialty choice during the course of med school, but right now, radonc is what I'm really interested in and I'm planning on getting involved with clinical research right from M1. So, this is playing a bit of a role in my decision as well.

Any advice/insights you guys can offer would be immensely appreciated!

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[DubZteR]

go with UIC .. seems like it will be a better fit for you.

Just do well in med school and if you end up going with rad onc then UIC or MCW will get you there

 

[honger]

Sounds like UIC is a better fit--if you apply yourself and work hard you shouldn't have problems matching from either school.

 

[subatomicdoc]

I went through this process about fifteen years ago (damn!), so the details and level of competitiveness have changed but the essentials probably haven't.

Being happy with location will make it easier to do well in medical school, which is a higher priority than having an "inside track". My opinion is that grades/test scores and outside research are overly weighted by residency programs but that's reality.

You have the research background, so focus on where you can optimize the grades/tests. Regardless of where you go, you have summer after 1st year to volunteer or do more research, and elective time to go to an away rotations that best suits your strategic needs.

I went to U Mass/Worcester for med school, which has no home program, did some research and an away rotation at a well-known residency program. I didn't get into that program, but excellent recommendations from well-known staff did help me get into another top program. N=1, but I don't think the home program issue is a big one. I hope that helps!

 

[CyberKnife19]

I would agree with the previous posters and advise you to go to UIC. I went to a medical school that has a Radiation Oncology department, but not a residency program and five people in my class matched (two of us to a "top-tier" program, one to a "middle-tier" program and two to a "lower tier" program...using the " " to indicate that the rankings are very subjective). Therefore, you can search previous match lists and see that you do not have to go to a medical school with a "top-tier" department to match into a top-notch program.

Especially given that you know you want to go into Rad Onc prior to beginning MS1, you have plenty of time to do research at U of Chicago or Northwestern as well as ample time to set up away rotations, research projects, etc. Therefore, I would say to go to UIC because it sounds like you would be more happy there.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Thanks for the insight so far guys. I truly appreciate it!

If anyone has any other advice, please feel free to post/send it my way.

 

[loveoforganic]

Just to increase the sample size of anecdotes, I shadowed a rad onc who didn't have a home program in med school, think he ended up going to UCSF for residency, but I don't remember for sure, might be mixing him up with one of the other rad onc's in the practice. At any rate, he said he just cast a very, very wide net (he said he applied to every rad onc program in the country).

 

[ibeamon]

Hey Kaushik!
I'm posting per Gfunk's request.
You know my thoughts, here's my bottom line for the forum:
-I can't say for sure whether my status as a no-home program student hurt my chances at the places I didn't get interviews, but I'm very happy with my match.
-There are UIC alumni at a number of good programs doing good things.
-Getting research is a little tougher, but I was able to find some great mentors. With your enthusiasm and early interest in the field, you're totally ahead of the game.
-UIC is a great place, with great people. Chicago is an awesome city (and Rahm may make it even #$%*$#& better).

I'm not sure what the metaphorical opposite of being between a rock and a hard place is, but that's where you are...
Good luck with your decision making!

Hey guys,

I'm hoping to get some advice from you all regarding what kind of effects attending a school without a true home program might have on residency chances. I'm fully aware that there's a chance that I'll end up changing my mind regarding specialty during med school and I'm okay with that. But as some of you may have realized by now (due to my excessive posting in this forum! ), I've been interested in radonc for a while now and am currently involved in bench research in this field, which has only increased my interest in it.

I'm trying to decide between two schools and, while I'm very grateful to be in this position, it's been more difficult trying to decide on a school than I anticipated it to be. The schools I'm trying to decide between are the University of Illinois-Chicago (UIC...I was placed in the Chicago campus) and the Medical College of Wisconsin (MCW). For the most part, there isn't a huge difference between the schools for me: there isn't a significant difference in cost, based on rough calculations (UIC is a bit more expensive since the cost of living in Chicago is higher than Milwaukee) and I feel that I'll be happy at both places, for the most part. With that being said, I do have a preference for UIC since it's in Chicago and I would strongly prefer to live in a busy city rather than in Milwaukee; the fact that I have several great friends in the Chicago area is also a bonus.

The thing that concerns me is that UIC doesn't have a true home program. I've been told that the UChicago/UIC program, though it includes UIC in the name, is primarily a UChicago program and that it's not considered UIC's home program. It looks like I can do a radonc elective at the UIC Medical Center (http://chicago.medicine.uic.edu/cms/One.aspx?portalId=506244&pageId=697538) and I've had the chance to correspond with a faculty member and a current M4 (at UIC...and has been a great help!) who matched into radonc, both of whom confirmed that I'd be able to conduct research at UChicago and have the opportunity to work with the faculty at UChicago. While it comforts me that I'd be able to conduct research at what is considered a top program (based on what I've read on SDN), I've also seen on SDN that not having a true home program can be a big disadvantage (based on previous threads).

MCW has a home program, though I don't know as much about it since there are very few posts about this program in the Interview Impressions thread. It seems to be considered more of a mid-tier program (again, based on what I've read on SDN) and I'm just starting to get in touch with faculty there to gauge the kind of research opportunities they have there. My ultimate negative for MCW though is that I'm not a big fan of the location; I prefer the bustle of the city.

So, my question is, would I really put myself at a disadvantage if I decided to go with UIC which, though it's affiliated with the UChicago program, doesn't have a true home program? Or would attending MCW really make a lot more sense if I do end up sticking with radonc? I do prefer UIC since I like the location better, have several friends in the Chicago area, and it seems to have a really strong reputation for providing an excellent clinical experience. It's been pointed out that it's good that I found the field this early and that I'm already involved in research; I'm also planning on doing things like applying to the MSKCC summer research program, making sure to do several away rotations, etc, so I feel like attending UIC shouldn't have a big negative effect if I end up applying to radonc. Like I said earlier, I fully understand that there's a chance I will be changing my mind about specialty choice during the course of med school, but right now, radonc is what I'm really interested in and I'm planning on getting involved with clinical research right from M1. So, this is playing a bit of a role in my decision as well.

Any advice/insights you guys can offer would be immensely appreciated!

 

[Pewl]

I would agree with the previous posters and advise you to go to UIC. I went to a medical school that has a Radiation Oncology department, but not a residency program and five people in my class matched (two of us to a "top-tier" program, one to a "middle-tier" program and two to a "lower tier" program...using the " " to indicate that the rankings are very subjective). Therefore, you can search previous match lists and see that you do not have to go to a medical school with a "top-tier" department to match into a top-notch program.

I was part of this class as well. We had five rad onc matches despite not having a home residency program. I was one of the aforementioned "Low-tier" matches but my singular goal was to match at one of the 21 positions out West... and I did..

I think you can overcome not having a home program by doing several away rotations. Your rotations at "reach" places should be for the sole purpose of getting letters of rec. Otherwise, I think doing rotations at "reasonables" would be time better spent. Good luck!

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Thanks for the insights guys! I truly appreciate it.

I was part of this class as well. We had five rad onc matches despite not having a home residency program. I was one of the aforementioned "Low-tier" matches but my singular goal was to match at one of the 21 positions out West... and I did..

I think you can overcome not having a home program by doing several away rotations. Your rotations at "reach" places should be for the sole purpose of getting letters of rec. Otherwise, I think doing rotations at "reasonables" would be time better spent. Good luck!

Regarding the bolded, that's definitely something that's been pointed out by others I've seeked advice from. And definitely something I'm planning on doing (aways at both reach places as well as places where I have a more reasonable chance of matching...assuming I'm still pursuing this field, of course!).

I'm hoping that the results of my radonc research from this current year (before med school) as well as getting involved with research right from M1 as well as (hopefully) becoming a familiar face at UChicago's program will be enough (or more than enough) to overcome the lack of a true home program. I also do, currently, plan on applying to summer fellowships (such as the MSKCC one or the Vandy (?) one) between M1 and M2, which will hopefully give me more exposure to "big names." So, I feel that everything should turn out fine. I just wanted some reassurance from the general radonc community here on SDN.