Schools that weight gGPA/MCAT over uGPA?

[freshbagels]

I'm looking to collate a list of schools that are receptive to good masters/SMP performances in light of very poor (<3.0) uGPAs. Obviously, schools that themselves have some sort of SMP or Master's degree are a good start, but are there other programs that historically have accepted SMP applicants predicated on good post-bacc performance and an excellent MCAT? Particularly, are there any top50 schools that would at least look at my application (i.e., don't screen based only on uGPA or have an appeal for the screen)? Not that I am holding out hope, necessarily, of getting into a competitive program, but it can't hurt to send in my app - well, except hurt my wallet.

FYI, my WAMC thread is here, with a tentative school list (mostly low-tier MD schools/MD schools with associated M.S. programs).

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[GorgeousBorges]

I'm looking to collate a list of schools that are receptive to good masters/SMP performances in light of very poor (<3.0) uGPAs. Obviously, schools that themselves have some sort of SMP or Master's degree are a good start, but are there other programs that historically have accepted SMP applicants predicated on good post-bacc performance and an excellent MCAT? Particularly, are there any top50 schools that would at least look at my application (i.e., don't screen based only on uGPA or have an appeal for the screen)? Not that I am holding out hope, necessarily, of getting into a competitive program, but it can't hurt to send in my app - well, except hurt my wallet.

FYI, my WAMC thread is here, with a tentative school list (mostly low-tier MD schools/MD schools with associated M.S. programs).

With a <3.0 GPA, there isn't an SMP in existence that can do a good job getting you in outside its borders. From what I've heard the best SMP for you would probably be EVMS, since your performance in the program would be the most important factor in your admission.

 

[kimposibl]

I'm looking to collate a list of schools that are receptive to good masters/SMP performances in light of very poor (<3.0) uGPAs. Obviously, schools that themselves have some sort of SMP or Master's degree are a good start, but are there other programs that historically have accepted SMP applicants predicated on good post-bacc performance and an excellent MCAT? Particularly, are there any top50 schools that would at least look at my application (i.e., don't screen based only on uGPA or have an appeal for the screen)? Not that I am holding out hope, necessarily, of getting into a competitive program, but it can't hurt to send in my app - well, except hurt my wallet.

FYI, my WAMC thread is here, with a tentative school list (mostly low-tier MD schools/MD schools with associated M.S. programs).

Not sure if I agree with Gorgeous. Try looking up the low GPA thread to see what options there are. There is also the DO route. I don't think gGPA will weigh more than uGPA considering gGPA is inflated anyway. An SMP is your best bet and EVMS has a lower uGPA cut off for applicants, as most want uGPA > or = 3.0. There are threads to help you out. Just gotta do some digging.

 

[DrMidlife]

Respect your competition. Respect the pain of med school. Don't be in a hurry. Don't be a *****.

Med schools worth going to are going to rigorously inspect the classes you took when you got a good GPA, so if that 3.6 was repeats and easy classes, you don't get credit for a year of redemption.

Med schools worth going to aren't going to be dazzled by one year of strong academic effort and ignore 5 years of weak academic effort.

You aren't going to dazzle in an SMP, from where you are now.

EVMS minimum is 2.75, and honestly they only use that cutoff for life-long locals with a big compelling back story and a decent MCAT. EVMS is not interested in taking risks on students who aren't ready for med school.

Most DO schools that have 1-2 year masters programs have very low GPA/MCAT requirements.

Michigan has two state schools that only look at your last 2 years of grades, if you do a postbac. Established state residents only.

Texas will let you do fresh start, and redo undergrad. Established state residents only. Takes 10 years.

The Caribbean will always love you. By "you" they mean your parents' checkbook.

Best of luck to you.

 

[freshbagels]

Sorry, I should have included that I already have an M.S. (or, at least, am on track to graduate) with a 4.0 from Tulane's M.S. Pharm program, which includes a second-year med school class), and am wondering if some of the post-bacc forum veterans know of any schools that have looked past sub-par uGPAs in the past.

I'm just trying to put together a comprehensive school list - I already have ~30 MD and ~10 DO schools, which are a reasonable mix of low and low-mid tier, but I'm specifically curious about mid-tier or higher "reach" schools that have accepted high MCAT/gGPA + low uGPA students. I've done a lot of searching through the WAMC forum and the Low GPA megathread, but I can't find any sort of centralized list, so I'm trying to put one together.

edit: to avoid confusion, my stats are (briefly)
uGPA: 2.67
sGPA: 2.51 (upward trend to a 3.6 of purely upper div/graduate mol bio coursework)
aoGPA: 3.00
gGPA: 4.0
MCAT: 39

 

[freshbagels]

I hate to 'bump' my thread - and if I get nothing really productive here, I'll just let it die - but do any of the regulars here (who've shepherded quite a few pre-meds into medical school over the years!) know of any relatively 'higher-tier' schools that have historically accepted low uGPA applicants after an M.S.?

I've got a robust MD/DO school list already and want to add a small portion of 'reach' schools that may possibly be receptive to my application.

 

[deleted248403]

I hate to 'bump' my thread - and if I get nothing really productive here, I'll just let it die - but do any of the regulars here (who've shepherded quite a few pre-meds into medical school over the years!) know of any relatively 'higher-tier' schools that have historically accepted low uGPA applicants after an M.S.?

I've got a robust MD/DO school list already and want to add a small portion of 'reach' schools that may possibly be receptive to my application.

'Higher-tier' and 2.67 cGPA do not go together - masters or not

That is almost 5 standard deviations below the average accepted MD student's cGPA.... look at % that puts you in....

Personally I don't think you'll get much look from any MD schools with a 2.67. You have a stellar MCAT, but that GPA is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below par for MD

 

[freshbagels]

'Higher-tier' and 2.67 cGPA do not go together - masters or not

That is almost 5 standard deviations below the average accepted MD student's cGPA.... look at % that puts you in....

Personally I don't think you'll get much look from any MD schools with a 2.67. You have a stellar MCAT, but that GPA is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below par for MD

I understand. I feel the rest of my application (4.0. M.S., 39 MCAT, ECs) makess me a good candidate and that I am not an "academic risk," so to speak. I am not asking if I'm competitive - I know I'm not, which is why I have a school list numbering higher than 40 - but just want to know if there are any MD schools that historically have taken applicants like me.

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[deleted248403]

I understand. I feel the rest of my application (4.0. M.S., 39 MCAT, ECs) makess me a good candidate and that I am not an "academic risk," so to speak. I am not asking if I'm competitive - I know I'm not, which is why I have a school list numbering higher than 40 - but just want to know if there are any MD schools that historically have taken applicants like me.

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Ever - yes I am sure there are one or two, but not a lot

 

[johnnyscans]

I understand. I feel the rest of my application (4.0. M.S., 39 MCAT, ECs) makess me a good candidate and that I am not an "academic risk," so to speak. I am not asking if I'm competitive - I know I'm not, which is why I have a school list numbering higher than 40 - but just want to know if there are any MD schools that historically have taken applicants like me.

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I agree with you, to a point. Unfortunately, medical schools are ranked based (in part) on the sGPA/uGPA of their matriculates. Ranking = popularity which, down the road, leads to money. They also, do to the shear number of applicants they receive, have autoscreens in place. There is a very good chance that your application will not even fall upon human eyes.

 

[hxkenshin]

I agree with you, to a point. Unfortunately, medical schools are ranked based (in part) on the sGPA/uGPA of their matriculates. Ranking = popularity which, down the road, leads to money. They also, do to the shear number of applicants they receive, have autoscreens in place. There is a very good chance that your application will not even fall upon human eyes.

Ranking is based on both ugGPA and MCAT. So his high MCAT would lessen the effect that his low GPA has on the average matriculate numbers. I even heard that MCAT is a better indicator of a student's success in medical school.
All in all, that's a killer MCAT score. How did you pull it off? Being in like the 99 + percentile is truly amazing!

 

[johnnyscans]

Ranking is based on both ugGPA and MCAT. So his high MCAT would lessen the effect that his low GPA has on the average matriculate numbers. I even heard that MCAT is a better indicator of a student's success in medical school.
All in all, that's a killer MCAT score. How did you pull it off? Being in like the 99 + percentile is truly amazing!

I agree with you. Unfortunately, some schools don't see eye to eye with us.

 

[deleted248403]

Ranking is based on both ugGPA and MCAT. So his high MCAT would lessen the effect that his low GPA has on the average matriculate numbers. I even heard that MCAT is a better indicator of a student's success in medical school.

No it wouldnt. OP is 3 standard deviations above average for MCAT and essentially 5 below for cGPA.
Those do not balance off.

And MCAT is not predictive of success in medical school (granted nor is cGPA). Med school is about slogging away everyday which is reflected to some degree in GPA - can you do it all day every day of several days?

Studying for a few weeks and a one-off test does not predict success; also defining success is a whole other discussion

*edit - its invariable a whine of whichever person doesn't fill half the equation: the high GPA but poor MCAT say they are poor test takers, and the low GPA/high MCAT whine that the MCAT should reflect more than their years of under-performance*

 

[freshbagels]

And MCAT is not predictive of success in medical school (granted nor is cGPA). Med school is about slogging away everyday which is reflected to some degree in GPA - can you do it all day every day of several days?

Studying for a few weeks and a one-off test does not predict success; also defining success is a whole other discussion

Your continued mischaracterization as risk to fail in medical school is becoming irritating. I know I'm an underdog, with a difficult application season ahead of me.

I have two years of successful "slogging away" in upper-division, graduate, and medical school courses. I know why I was doing poorly in school, rectified it, and now I'm doing well on a consistent basis. My goal is to demonstrate that to adcoms, and if I get screened out by uGPA I will try and appeal.

It's a bit insulting for you to characterize my MCAT score as "a few weeks of studying and a one-of success." I spent 4 months juggling comprehensive content review, self-assessments, and a very difficult courseload and was rewarded with a #1 class rank (#3 overall among medical students in my pharm class) and a 99+ percentile score. It wasn't a fluke: my AAMC average was 38 and I made a 43 on AAMC 10.


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[deleted248403]

Your continued mischaracterization as risk to fail in medical school is becoming irritating. I know I'm an underdog, with a difficult application season ahead of me.

I have two years of successful "slogging away" in upper-division, graduate, and medical school courses. I know why I was doing poorly in school, rectified it, and now I'm doing well on a consistent basis. My goal is to demonstrate that to adcoms, and if I get screened out by uGPA I will try and appeal.

It's a bit insulting for you to characterize my MCAT score as "a few weeks of studying and a one-of success." I spent 4 months juggling comprehensive content review, self-assessments, and a very difficult courseload and was rewarded with a #1 class rank (#3 overall among medical students in my pharm class) and a 99+ percentile score. It wasn't a fluke: my AAMC average was 38 and I made a 43 on AAMC 10.

I wasn't speaking solely to you - simmer down. Nor am I questioning whether you know whether or not you are an underdog.

Nor did I say your MCAT was a fluke - but again, the MCAT is not predictive of med school success.

*edit - and yes, you are a risk for med school admission. Whether you like it or not; or whether you get an admit or not. You are still much riskier than a 3.5 cGPA / 32 MCAT. If you don't see this, then you are delusional

 

[freshbagels]

Of course I am more of a risk in relative terms - but in terms of absolute risk, i.e. someone who is going to fail out or not pass the boards? No, I don't seriously believe so.

Med School success is obviously difficult to predict and can't be tied to a single metric. But a student who has shown a multi-year ability to perform and achieve, in both the classroom and on standardized tests? Not the most likely category to need remediation.

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[Agtongue]

Med schools have seen thousands of students with 3.5s and 32s successfully complete their programs. That's what they're going by, and it doesn't matter what we hope or think it should be based on.

You have a great gGPA and MCAT. I hope you find success this year.

 

[DrMidlife]

What's the question now? What reach schools should you go for?

Honestly nobody can answer that. Nobody has experience with a 39 against a sub-3.0 undergrad plus an SMP-like terminal masters. You should probably be asking where Tulane Pharm alumni are now, if you want to know what med schools know about the program already. But you're in uncharted territory.

 

[freshbagels]

What's the question now? What reach schools should you go for?

Honestly nobody can answer that. Nobody has experience with a 39 against a sub-3.0 undergrad plus an SMP-like terminal masters. You should probably be asking where Tulane Pharm alumni are now, if you want to know what med schools know about the program already. But you're in uncharted territory.

Alright, I was afraid of that. I appreciate all the help everyone, I'll speak with our program coordinator and see what I can glean from our records.

Also, I'll be sure to catalog my application experience here in case another weirdo comes along and finds it instructive! Haha.

 

[common man]

I am curious how did you make such a sharp turn from undergraduate to graduate? It sounds like you went from a very poor GPA to a 4.0 and 39 on your MCAT just like that. Purely for my curiosity, can you explain how you did this? It's phenomenal. Also how did you get into the graduate program with that GPA? Did you have an upward trend?

 

[freshbagels]

I am curious how did you make such a sharp turn from undergraduate to graduate? It sounds like you went from a very poor GPA to a 4.0 and 39 on your MCAT just like that. Purely for my curiosity, can you explain how you did this? It's phenomenal. Also how did you get into the graduate program with that GPA? Did you have an upward trend?

Yes, it was quite a dramatic turnaround. I believe the biggest factor was being diagnosed and treated for ADHD before my 5th year in college. I am a first-generation American who came from a family that didn't believe ADHD was a "real" disease and that it was drastically overdiagnosed in the U.S. While that second part may be true, I have profound problems with attentiveness and impulse control, which are treated very effectively with both medication and behavioral awareness. My academic career - until last year at least - was one of severe underachievement. I made good marks on tests, but had many, many missing or late assignments, all the way from elementary school through my first years as an undergraduate.

I was also a member of the crew team for 4 years, which was a year-round sport that preoccupied much of my time and attention. I was much more concerned with being successful as a rower than being a good student.

Finally (and this is common to many young people), I had a very poor work ethic and little idea on how to set and accomplish goals.

I got into my current grad program for a few reasons: I had an upward trend (my final year was entirely upper-division or graduate-level science courses and I did well), a 99% GRE score, and a well-articulated personal statement.

 

[Taqwa]

Awesome thread, coming back here for reference later.

 

[RegisBioMedMS]

I think a lot rides on your essay and interviews. You have a very interesting story and if you communicate it well, you are on a good track to get interviews. And with good prep, those interviews will turn into acceptances. Seek some good writing help with your revisions and don't skimp on interview preparation. And please post back on your progress. I'm very curious to see where you end up.

I also wouldn't limit yourself to just the "top tier" schools. There are many great MD and DO programs beyond just those. The right program for you is about match, not ranking. Schools recruit to their mission... find the schools where you are a match for their mission. (A place like Creighton Med comes to mind... but there will be others.)http://medschool.creighton.edu/medicine/departments/departmentofmedicine/missionstatement/index.php

Take the time to talk to alumni, to read beyond the rankings and statistics and create a list of programs that are a great fit for you.

 

[thestrugglingtraveler]

Yes, it was quite a dramatic turnaround. I believe the biggest factor was being diagnosed and treated for ADHD before my 5th year in college. I am a first-generation American who came from a family that didn't believe ADHD was a "real" disease and that it was drastically overdiagnosed in the U.S. While that second part may be true, I have profound problems with attentiveness and impulse control, which are treated very effectively with both medication and behavioral awareness. My academic career - until last year at least - was one of severe underachievement. I made good marks on tests, but had many, many missing or late assignments, all the way from elementary school through my first years as an undergraduate.

I was also a member of the crew team for 4 years, which was a year-round sport that preoccupied much of my time and attention. I was much more concerned with being successful as a rower than being a good student.

Finally (and this is common to many young people), I had a very poor work ethic and little idea on how to set and accomplish goals.

I got into my current grad program for a few reasons: I had an upward trend (my final year was entirely upper-division or graduate-level science courses and I did well), a 99% GRE score, and a well-articulated personal statement.

Excellent, very inspiring to see you got into medical school.