seeking for advice on how to strengthen application before I apply this summer!

[doubledoctordoubletrouble]

I know that I am a very un-unique applicant.

stats:
Top 30 undergrad
overall GPA: will be ~3.85 including all 8 semesters of college
science GPA: ~3.8
MCAT: 36

extracurriculars: this is where I feel the weakest
1) 2 years of unproductive research -- I put in A LOT of hours, but just the way my project is set up… it doesn’t lend itself to any earth shattering results or progress. I do work independently though, which sets me somewhat apart from most other undergraduates.
2) hospital volunteering -- 80 hours, over 2 years
3) nursing home volunteering (host activities with residents) -- 40 hours, over 1 year
4) biology TA -- 2 semesters
5) shadowing -- 30 hours, over 1 year
6) I am involved with a religious group on campus and have a leadership role within it… but I am not sure if it’s a good idea to put it on my application (?) don’t want to create any controversy regarding myself.
7) tutoring -- 4 years

gap year plans:
honestly up in the air right now.
suggestions?
part of me just wants to travel travel travel. I have been quite sheltered my whole life… and am itching to go out and explore the world a bit. but… need $$.


looking for comments on
1) my chances at top tier schools
2) what else can I do to strengthen my application?
3) suggestions on gap year plans?
4) how can I stand out more? feeling pretty unspecial right now

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[WedgeDawg]

Hey there. We are fairly similar applicants. I too did not have extreme depth to my ECs. My research of going on 4 years has still to result in anything substantial and I have a little bit over 200 hours total volunteering, and I also taught for a while. Additionally I applied very late. However, I still managed to do fairly well this cycle so far.

Looking at your app, I think the biggest difference is that I have much more clinical volunteering than you. Your numbers will get you interviews if you apply broadly and early, no question about that. What I would recommend doing is scribing over your gap year. That will get you a lot more clinical exposure and show adcoms that you're really serious about wanting to go into medicine. If you set it up early, you can also add it + projected number of hours you'll be working to your primary app.

Now, as for research, lack of publication or whatever doesn't really hold anyone back. Everyone knows what the research game is like for undergrads and how unlikely it is for them to be published. The key is being able to intelligently and positively portray your role in the lab and understanding of the research. I may not have a publication, but I can walk anyone through the logic of our research, what we hope to gain from it, how it will ultimately benefit medicine, why we are doing things the way we are, what pitfalls we've faced and overcome, and what my contributions to this process have been. And I have done so, both in my primary, and in multiple interviews. That right there is far more important than any publication as an undergrad (of course if you do both that's obviously better).

Now keep in mind 3.8/36 research heavy applicants are a dime a dozen. You don't have anything that really sets you apart for top schools. However you're still competitive for them. I would say that you should apply to some as long as they do not detract from your applications to other schools. Apply broadly and early and get some more clinical exposure and you'll do fine.

 

[mimelim]

Why are you taking a gap year?
What was the reasoning behind it?

You are a safe applicant. Your numbers make you a safe medical school admission from an academic side. As for the top tier, meh. Lots of good number applicants. Not seeing a whole lot that I would say at committee meeting, "we gotta get this guy".

The sum total of your clinical experience is what I do in a week in a half when I'm working. Why do you want to go into medicine? It is hard to justify giving spots to people whose sole bright spot is that they are good students.

 

[emflem]

It is hard to justify giving spots to people whose sole bright spot is that they are good students.

That's about the best and most terrifying advice I've read on admissions.

 

[Goro]

4.0 automatons are a dime-a-dozen.

That's about the best and most terrifying advice I've read on admissions.

 

[JPSmyth]

@Goro and @mimelim in your opinion(s), how should applicants prove that they truly want to go into medicine based on the experiences on their app? (or were you referring to being able to elaborate on these experiences during the interview?) I really want to show that I am committed to pursuing medicine, and that I have thought this through for 3+ years (since my first year of college)

Also, I plan on taking a gap year as well after graduating. Is it a bad idea to explain to admissions that I took the gap year to travel and experience as much of the US and other countries as I possibly could? I haven't had the chance to do much traveling, and I really wanted to a) go cross country and back, and b)travel to Europe/South America. I don't think these experiences will necessarily benefit my application but they are just things I've always wanted to do.

Thanks guys, any input is appreciated

 

[Goro]

Hang around sick and injured people doing nice things for them.

how should applicants prove that they truly want to go into medicine based on the experiences on their app? (or were you referring to being able to elaborate on these experiences during the interview?) I really want to show that I am committed to pursuing medicine, and that I have thought this through for 3+ years (since my first year of college)


If you have lots of ECs, then this is OK (you only live once). But candidates typically use gap years to strengthen their apps. You don't want an adcom member to ask "so your taking this trip shows your interest and dedication to Medicine how???


Also, I plan on taking a gap year as well after graduating. Is it a bad idea to explain to admissions that I took the gap year to travel and experience as much of the US and other countries as I possibly could? I haven't had the chance to do much traveling, and I really wanted to a) go cross country and back, and b)travel to Europe/South America. I don't think these experiences will necessarily benefit my application but they are just things I've always wanted to do.

 

[mimelim]

@Goro and @mimelim in your opinion(s), how should applicants prove that they truly want to go into medicine based on the experiences on their app? (or were you referring to being able to elaborate on these experiences during the interview?) I really want to show that I am committed to pursuing medicine, and that I have thought this through for 3+ years (since my first year of college)

Also, I plan on taking a gap year as well after graduating. Is it a bad idea to explain to admissions that I took the gap year to travel and experience as much of the US and other countries as I possibly could? I haven't had the chance to do much traveling, and I really wanted to a) go cross country and back, and b)travel to Europe/South America. I don't think these experiences will necessarily benefit my application but they are just things I've always wanted to do.

Thanks guys, any input is appreciated

Regarding 'showing' or 'proving' interest: You have to be able to say, "I want to do medicine because it is the right field for me." And you also need to not come off as naive or delusional. This is highly individualized and the reality is that medicine is NOT the right path for a lot of people, including a lot of pre-meds. This is two fold.

#1 You have to know what you are getting into. You can't just say, "I'll do whatever it takes!" and have no idea that you are going to be training for 10+ years working or studying 80+ hours of those years. You have to know that you are going to have to sacrifice other aspects of your life in order to pursue medicine. Certainly not sacrificing everything, you can have family, a life, friends, etc. But, you have to know that you are going to have less free time than most of your peers.

#2 The people that impress me the most in this area are the ones that see humanity for what it is and show an shown in the past that they are willing to sacrifice to help others. The people that derive pleasure from helping other people are the ones that no matter what happens, medicine will be worth it in the end. It isn't about hours, it isn't about even what exactly you did. It is about demonstrating that you care and frankly, the people that do don't ask the question, "what do I do?" There is so much misfortune and so many problems in the world around us that making a positive impact in people's lives or at least trying to isn't exactly hard.

 

[JPSmyth]

If you have lots of ECs, then this is OK (you only live once). But candidates typically use gap years to strengthen their apps. You don't want an adcom member to ask "so your taking this trip shows your interest and dedication to Medicine how???


Also, I plan on taking a gap year as well after graduating. Is it a bad idea to explain to admissions that I took the gap year to travel and experience as much of the US and other countries as I possibly could? I haven't had the chance to do much traveling, and I really wanted to a) go cross country and back, and b)travel to Europe/South America. I don't think these experiences will necessarily benefit my application but they are just things I've always wanted to do.

But does everything you do have to reflect your dedication to medicine? As a doctor, every waking thought can't be about medicine, can it? I feel like everybody enjoys vacation. Or maybe I am just not a work horse like others.

My justification is that this is my last chance at having such a large chunk of time, probably until I retire. I just worked hard getting a high undergrad GPA, studied for the MCAT, and worked throughout school to save up for it. I don't think that traveling pertains to medicine at all, it is just an awesome experience to have

I feel like there is a contradiction. I see all the time on this forum people asking about what they should do outside of GPA and MCAT to strengthen their application. Outside of clinical experience and research, everybody seems to say "do whatever makes you happy, and that you want to do." But then on the other hand, when people are doing things unrelated to medicine can it be interpreted as a lack of dedication to medicine?

(I'm not trying to heckle you, I appreciate the help. I just feel like I keep hearing so many mixed things)

 

[mimelim]

But does everything you do have to reflect your dedication to medicine? As a doctor, every waking thought can't be about medicine, can it? I feel like everybody enjoys vacation. Or maybe I am just not a work horse like others.

My justification is that this is my last chance at having such a large chunk of time, probably until I retire. I just worked hard getting a high undergrad GPA, studied for the MCAT, and worked throughout school to save up for it. I don't think that traveling pertains to medicine at all, it is just an awesome experience to have

I feel like there is a contradiction. I see all the time on this forum people asking about what they should do outside of GPA and MCAT to strengthen their application. Outside of clinical experience and research, everybody seems to say "do whatever makes you happy, and that you want to do." But then on the other hand, when people are doing things unrelated to medicine can it be interpreted as a lack of dedication to medicine?

(I'm not trying to heckle you, I appreciate the help. I just feel like I keep hearing so many mixed things)

There is nothing wrong with taking vacation. There is nothing wrong with enjoying life. And, we, like adcoms around the country know that. Taking time to do things that you won't be able to do in the future is fine. But, it is all about degree. Taking a month to go backpacking is great. Nobody will ever question that. But, taking 6 months to goof off? Different story. Is it inherently wrong? No. Absolutely not. But, it is a significant fraction of your pre-medical school time and you are being compared to other applicants. Do the math.

You have 168 hours in a week.
If you sleep 7 hours a day, that becomes 120 hours.
Lets say that you go to class/study or work for 40 hours a week, that means you have 80 hours of free time.

For me, I can tell a lot about who someone is by looking at what they do with those 80 hours/week. Nobody will fault you for playing video games, hanging out with friends, traveling, etc if it takes up 10% of that time. But, what about 50%? What about 70%? What about 90%? It isn't terribly uncommon to look at an applicant's time over 3 years of undergrad and say, you spent 80-90% of your time doing things that were about your leisure or pleasure. There is NOTHING wrong with that. Nothing. You have every right to want that and do that. But, people have to realize that the people that are spending their time caring for others, looking outside of themselves for their fulfillment are the ones that are most likely to succeed in a highly demanding and sometimes thankless profession.

 

[doubledoctordoubletrouble]

so...bringing things back to the original intent of this thread---how should I work on gaining more clinical experience so that I can prove to both myself and the adcoms that medicine is right for me, but without looking like I am padding my application right before I submit it? I have been volunteering 2 hours per week since my junior continuing now into my senior year, and I plan on volunteering during my gap year as well. Would you advise me to add on more shifts this upcoming semester?

 

[Blue Blood]

part of me just wants to travel travel travel. I have been quite sheltered my whole life… and am itching to go out and explore the world a bit. but… need $$.[/SIZE]

As a pre med I constantly heard that I should take a gap year and travel. I ended up taking one (due to some application problems), but to me the traveling is a bit overrated. Loans come due. I ended up just working so far.

Apply. Get in. Move on with life.

If traveling is important to you pick a specialty that has free time. That s*** is expensive!

 

[doubledoctordoubletrouble]

so...bringing things back to the original intent of this thread---how should I work on gaining more clinical experience so that I can prove to both myself and the adcoms that medicine is right for me, but without looking like I am padding my application right before I submit it? I have been volunteering 2 hours per week since my junior continuing now into my senior year, and I plan on volunteering during my gap year as well. Would you advise me to add on more shifts this upcoming semester?

bump

 

[doubledoctordoubletrouble]

so...bringing things back to the original intent of this thread---how should I work on gaining more clinical experience so that I can prove to both myself and the adcoms that medicine is right for me, but without looking like I am padding my application right before I submit it? I have been volunteering 2 hours per week since my junior continuing now into my senior year, and I plan on volunteering during my gap year as well. Would you advise me to add on more shifts this upcoming semester?

Thoughts anyone? help...

 

[Blue Blood]

Thoughts anyone? help...

I don't know what else you want us to tell you? You're competitive. No reason to take a gap year unless you really want to.

If you must be told what to do...
1. since your research has been unproductive try to push something through. It really isn't that hard to get enough data for a poster for a regional conference. I don't know how supportive your PI is, mine was awesome and helped me push stuff through (smallish LAC, if you're from a big university, I hear PIs can be a pain in the a** sometimes, so you may be SOL) but it would be nice if you had something to show for 2+ years of research esp. If you're aiming for top ten.

Sure up shadowing and get a solid MD letter.

Do something you like clinicaly and that is meaningful to yourself. Quality over quantity.