Should I just give up?

[tmich7600]

I applied to over 12 residency programs and so far have either not heard back from the programs, or I got rejection letters from all of them.

Things are getting very competitive, and I am not an impressive applicant on paper. I have below a 3.0 gpa, which I can only assume got me eliminated before they even got to my letter of intent or letters of recommendation.

I registered for the match, but obviously, there is no point in ranking any programs if i didn't even get any interviews, or am I mistaken?

I'm preparing for the worst-case scenario, which I am beginning to see is probably a reality for me. There's always retail jobs, right?

What is your advice?

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[GoldfishPharmD]

I don't want to sugarcoat it, but it's going to be very difficult for you to get a residency. A lot of programs have a GPA cut off. If you're under it (normally a 3.0), they most likely won't look at your application. If you don't match this year, you could participate in the scramble. This will also be difficult as well, but it's worth a shot. If no luck this year, maybe aim for a hospital job to get experience and try to apply again (if you decide that's still what you want to do). If anything, you can try hard to gain as much clinical experience as you can without a residency, get BCPS certified, and climb through the ranks.

 

[tmich7600]

Thank you for your response

maybe aim for a hospital job to get experience and try to apply again

Are there any specific positions in a hospital I should be looking for?

Are people who go this route usually successful in getting residencies, especially with residencies becoming more and more difficult each year? My GPA may be above a 3.0 after graduation, but what will my chances be compared to the applicants who are academically better qualified than I am? (I guess my question here is will GPA matter at this point, after graduating and working)

Who should I get to write my letters if I apply next year?

 

[DanOSetron]

Three of my personal friends who did not match last year or in years prior either i) took a position as an assistant research Rph with a professor and worked part time as a rph, ii) worked full time as a community rph or iii) worked in a hospital full time. They were all able to land desirable pharm practice positions due to their dedication and exp as a pharm. Ideally you should try and land a hospital job that has a strong clinical aspect to it. One thing you have to consider is the financial aspect of making a pharmacists salary one year, to earning the stipend of a resident. If you can do that and are truly set on a residency, I think you could land something. Good luck-Dan

 

[Unchained]

I've got some even worse news for you. There's not even retail. You could say that like 5 years ago.

 

[spacecowgirl]

No, there is no point in ranking programs. You could participate in the scramble but TBH, the scramble is more competitive than the match in many ways. While I don't like to say never, a program will never look at you with a sub 3.0 GPA.

Have you interned anywhere? That would be the first direction I would go. Hospitals in my system do not hire staff pharmacists without prior hospital experience or a PGY1. Other systems might. Start looking far and wide if hospital is where you want to go. But I would pursue retail if that is where you are interning.

 

[Dred Pirate]

again - not gonna sugar coat it either - odds of a residency in the match are very slim - better focus on just getting a job. Two main options - take whatever you can find near you - not sure where you are and the job market there. If you want to do hospital - likely will have to go to an out of the way type rule place, likely rural or even indian health (not sure if that is what it is still called - sounds very un-pc.

 

[extra07extra]

Under 3.0 gpa is no chance, retail very hard too and hosptial too. Is no point try to scramble, very competive. Try apply far away place, small pharmacys better chance. No point try to better gpa now is, try to get job is most priorty..

 

[BenJammin]

This is a great opportunity for you to find some local hospitals and see if they have graveyard shifts available. Lots of new grads, or at least at my alma mater, are forgoing residencies and getting staffing jobs. Work there for awhile and move your way up the ladder. Not only do you get the experience but you also retain a normal pharmacist's pay.

 

[pharmgirl2440]

Ranking would be a waste of time however I would still try to scramble. You never know unless you try and there really isnt any harm in trying since you have worked so hard on your application. When I applied for residencies this year my GPA was below a 3.0 and I still received some interviews. To the crazies saying there are no retail jobs I am guessing they have not tried to look anywhere but close to home.

 

[tmich7600]

Thanks for everyone's response, I appreciate all of your feedback.

finding a retail job in my situation is not going to be a problem

I have been searching for hospital jobs around the country, and it seems that to get into most hospital jobs, I need some kind of hospital experience, which I do not have (I have plenty of retail experience though). There are a couple opportunities I will try and pursue though

regarding the match, obviously it is a waste of time to try and rank anything if I didn't get any interviews but I am going to try scrambling. even a small chance is still a chance (I'm not looking for a positive outcome though. I'm trying just so I can exhaust every chance, no matter how small)

I will still try to pursue a residency in the future. Like I stated before, my GPA will be above a 3.0 at the end of this semester, so I am going to try and land a staffing position at a hospital. What else can I do in order to improve my chances?

Also, regarding my future application, who should I be looking for to write my letters of recommendation?

 

[kmoogs]

Regarding letter of recs, try to find someone from your rotstions to write a strong letter of rec that can vouch for your performance that clearly indicates they feel your grades don't reflect your actual clinical knowledge.

My grades are terrible by residency averages but I was able to secure an interview to every program I applied to except one. I can't be certain, but I feel the strength of the letter of rec really carries a lot of weight to make up for poor grades. But I wasn't quite at the <3.0 level so our situations aren't exactly the same. Maybe you'll have more luck after you get that gpa bump this year.

 

[tmich7600]

I have heard many people say that my application wasn't even looked at because of my GPA. can anyone give their opinion on the validity of this?

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I have heard many people say that my application wasn't even looked at because of my GPA. can anyone give their opinion on the validity of this?

Where did you apply? I think some of the people here have stated that they automatically filter out apps below a certain cut off. I'm sure it's different from program to program though. My program using a scoring system. We score all applications and you get points for different parts of your application. If you meet the cut off with your score, you get an interview.

 

[Princess Cupcake]

@tmich7600 It is not just you...I have a 3.5 GPA, applied to 8 programs, have a full CV, and have strong rec letters yet still no positive responses (and for 3 programs, NO response). My background is mainly in retail as well. I'm thinking I'll go through the scramble, but most likely I'll do retail for a while and then explore other options. There are really just too many of us and not enough positions, unfortunately. Don't give up if this is something you really want for yourself!

 

[metallideth]

@tmich7600 It is not just you...I have a 3.5 GPA, applied to 8 programs, have a full CV, and have strong rec letters yet still no positive responses (and for 3 programs, NO response). My background is mainly in retail as well. I'm thinking I'll go through the scramble, but most likely I'll do retail for a while and then explore other options. There are really just too many of us and not enough positions, unfortunately. Don't give up if this is something you really want for yourself!

What type of institutions did you apply to (VAs, Academic hospitals, community hospitals)? Were you geographically limited or did you apply to hospitals from different regions of the country? Did you go to a newer pharmacy school or a long standing institution?

 

[Chillz87]

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - my 2 cents

 

[kmoogs]

@tmich7600 It is not just you...I have a 3.5 GPA, applied to 8 programs, have a full CV, and have strong rec letters yet still no positive responses (and for 3 programs, NO response). My background is mainly in retail as well. I'm thinking I'll go through the scramble, but most likely I'll do retail for a while and then explore other options. There are really just too many of us and not enough positions, unfortunately. Don't give up if this is something you really want for yourself!

By no positive responses, do you mean no interviews or no positive responses post-interview?

 

[Princess Cupcake]

What type of institutions did you apply to (VAs, Academic hospitals, community hospitals)? Were you geographically limited or did you apply to hospitals from different regions of the country? Did you go to a newer pharmacy school or a long standing institution?

To be honest, I wasn't "putting all my eggs in one basket" hoping to get a residency. It is a path I considered later than most usually do (Spring of third year), and I was out of the country when midyear took place in Orlando.

I also got my MBA as a dual degree in pharmacy school; my heart is more in management and health information technology than clinical work. I applied to managed care positions, one VA, and academic as well as community hospitals. I limited myself to about a 100mile radius of the area in which I want to live, and yes, I knew this would make it more of a challenge - but I didn't want to settle for an area in which I would be unhappy when I know there are other options.

Yes, my school of pharmacy is still fairly new, and yes, that does hinder me and my application a lot.

NOTE TO FUTURE PHARMACY STUDENTS: If you are reading this post, choose to apply to schools that have been around for a long time or have done some great things if you think residency is a possible path for your future! (Or schools that have managed care in their curriculums if you think you might like that, etc..)

 

[Princess Cupcake]

By no positive responses, do you mean no interviews or no positive responses post-interview?

By no positive responses I mean that I did not get an interview (I received a rejection email instead). Three programs did not even bother to contact me in any way (yet), so for now I will be assuming they are rejections as well...the match is only two weeks away.

 

[kmoogs]

Hmm, did you write about your goals and interests in your letter of intent? Programs may have felt your interests lie elsewhere and didn't want to spend time interviewing, matching, and training someone that wasn't interested in their type of pharmacy or fit their typical/ideal image of a candidate.

There are PGY-1 administration residencies out there that might have been a better fit for your interests and background.

 

[Princess Cupcake]

Hmm, did you write about your goals and interests in your letter of intent? Programs may have felt your interests lie elsewhere and didn't want to spend time interviewing, matching, and training someone that wasn't interested in their type of pharmacy or fit their typical/ideal image of a candidate.

There are PGY-1 administration residencies out there that might have been a better fit for your interests and background.

Yes, I am not going to lie to a program just to better my chances of getting in; however, I did apply to places that had something interesting to me that were in alignment with my goals... I am aware of the admin residency positions; however, the few I did look at were not for me for various reasons. This is why, as I said before, I did not put all hope into getting a residency; I applied as a means of potentially expanding my pool of opportunities.

 

[extra07extra]

Yes, I am not going to lie to a program just to better my chances of getting in...

This is mistake you make, is very compititive...evrybody do everthign you must for get in...

 

[kmoogs]

Yes, I am not going to lie to a program just to better my chances of getting in; however, I did apply to places that had something interesting to me that were in alignment with my goals... I am aware of the admin residency positions; however, the few I did look at were not for me for various reasons. This is why, as I said before, I did not put all hope into getting a residency; I applied as a means of potentially expanding my pool of opportunities.

If you found the right admin programs to apply to, that fit your future aspirations, then it wouldn't be about lying. You could clearly outline what you expect to offer and get back from the program.

 

[pharm B]

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - my 2 cents

Some of our shots are longer than others.

 

[kmoogs]

Some of our shots are longer than others.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...yards-shooting-the-17000-linux-powered-rifle/

 

[pharm B]

I'll keep that in mind next month!

 

[karate104]

NOTE TO FUTURE PHARMACY STUDENTS: If you are reading this post, choose to apply to schools that have been around for a long time or have done some great things if you think residency is a possible path for your future! (Or schools that have managed care in their curriculums if you think you might like that, etc..)

How much truth does this statement hold? With my weaker-than-most undergrad GPA, I was only able to get interviews at newer schools, and now I'm a P1 at a relatively new pharmacy school, just got fully accredited with their first graduating class in 2012. I'm hoping to become a hospital pharmacist when I graduate and thus I'm considering residency programs. Does my school's newer program heavily negatively affect my chances of getting a residency?

 

[Chillz87]

Some of our shots are longer than others.

The best ones to take - However, using that linux rifle would be cheating imo

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

How much truth does this statement hold? With my weaker-than-most undergrad GPA, I was only able to get interviews at newer schools, and now I'm a P1 at a relatively new pharmacy school, just got fully accredited with their first graduating class in 2012. I'm hoping to become a hospital pharmacist when I graduate and thus I'm considering residency programs. Does my school's newer program heavily negatively affect my chances of getting a residency?

I believe it's a very true statement overall. Some places may consider you if they've had experience with students from your school, but outside of that, you're most likely going to get looked over in my opinion. Ways to increase your chances is to keep your grades up, be active, research, and work experience (preferably hospital) then apply broadly (not just big name University of such and such medical center).

 

[Princess Cupcake]

This is mistake you make, is very compititive...evrybody do everthign you must for get in...

I understand that it is very competitive, and I did not ask what my mistake was; however, I would rather NOT get into a program and still have my integrity...can you say the same?

 

[Princess Cupcake]

If you found the right admin programs to apply to, that fit your future aspirations, then it wouldn't be about lying. You could clearly outline what you expect to offer and get back from the program.

That is what I did; however, choosing to limit myself to a smaller area makes it more competitive, especially when that area is fairly saturated. I'm not disappointed; as I mentioned before, I only applied to potentially expand my opportunity pool.

 

[nervoushabits]

Yes, my school of pharmacy is still fairly new, and yes, that does hinder me and my application a lot.

NOTE TO FUTURE PHARMACY STUDENTS: If you are reading this post, choose to apply to schools that have been around for a long time or have done some great things if you think residency is a possible path for your future! (Or schools that have managed care in their curriculums if you think you might like that, etc..)

I went through this myself. Although my GPA was right around the 3.2 mark through school, my CV was loaded with lots of ECs and several (and by several I mean almost 10) years of pharmacy work experience. Let's not forget that my APPE rotations were several of the most difficult APPEs in the entire STATE. Because I went to a "newer" institution, albeit an accelerated/advanced curriculum at that, my application was disregarded because I wasn't "up to par" academically. I literally had one institution tell me after asking for feedback that I wasn't considered because I didn't have a national position in an organization.

Luckily for me, I had an opportunity for a PGY-1 that fell into my lap and it turns out it was the PERFECT program for me. I think I have a habit of taking the more difficult route than the easy way, because I'm applying for a PGY-2 and apparently community residencies are frowned upon for PGY-2's as well (go figure, I'm just SOL when it comes to my career path, I think). But I did receive a few interviews, so there is hope, my friends. There is hope.

Anyway, I digress. I agree with the poster quoted above. I hate to steer people away from my alma mater, but if you're serious about this residency gig, coming from a more established institution might be in your favor, especially for PGY-1.

 

[SwedishFish!]

I wanted to add some clarification regarding newer pharmacy school programs and the pursuit of a residency.

I attend one of the newer programs (first graduating class was a few years ago) and our school also does not have a GPA. It is Pass/No Pass. It appealed to me due to the location, the accelerated program (3 instead of 4 years), and the feel I got from the faculty during my interview. I interviewed at 2 other pharmacy programs that have been around for a long time and are well known for their pharmacy programs, but choose my current school because it was the best fit for me.

Because I have had it drilled in my head that residency is outrageously competitive, I ended up applying to 16 programs, several of which are very well regarded and top tier hospitals. I ended up getting 16 interview invites, and actually interviewed at 14 due to time constraints. It has been a very exhausting last few weeks.

How did this happen with me being from a newer program that doesn't even have a GPA to set me apart from the other candidates?

From reading the other posts, I wanted to add a ray of hope to those who are considering residency training from these programs. To the students at these newer programs or those pre-pharmacy students that will soon be attending one, here is my advice.

First, I came from a prior career with supervisory experience and a couple of national publications from research I had done as an undergraduate, which was a nice perk to my CV.

I cannot emphasize involvement in pharmacy organizations enough. Start early, and try to get positions of leadership within these organizations. Not only is this great for your CV, but the networking opportunities are priceless. I am quite certain that a couple of my interview invites were due to a connection and friendship I had made with a very well known leader in pharmacy who dropped my name to programs she knew I was applying to.

Community service is also key. Not the random health fairs here and there, although those help and are good to be involved in, but something consistent that shows you have commitment to a cause.

Your rotations are another important aspect. I choose difficult rotations that I know would push me and provide me a varied and extensive inpatient and ambulatory care experience. I know you might not have complete control over this area, but do your best to make it known to the powers that be what your interest areas are.

Last, I worked two jobs while attending an accelerated program, one of which was research based and the other as a paid pharmacy intern. I had a handful of national and local presentations/posters I was able to do because of this experience.

During the application process, my letter writers were very familiar with my achievements and I knew I would get very strong reccomendations from them. My letter of intent was iron clad and I had it edited by a handful of people before I was officially happy with it. My CV was also looked at by ACCP, two faculty, my dean, and two preceptors.

I also reccomend the book "The Roadmap to Postgraduate Training inPharmacy." I find it a lot more thorough than the "Get the Residency" book from ASHP.

It has been a very busy last few years, but not overwhelmingly so. It is possible to be heavily involved while maintaining your studies and still have a social life. If you want a residency bad enough, put the work in and you will match. I am quite confident that tomorrow morning will bring happy news.

Best of luck to all!