SN1: Racemic Product

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justadream

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Just want to confirm:

Not all SN1 reactions yield racemic products right?

Like if there is some type of steric hinderance from the rest of the structure (e.g., bulky groups adjacent to the carbon being attacked) then you can get major/minor products, correct?

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I thought the carbocation would be planar and have an equal chance of being attacked on both sides of the plane regardless. I would expect it to have planar symmetry unless it's 3-dimensionally a really complicated molecule. It'd be great to hear of an exception.
 
@The Brown Knight
Well my example would be like:

When if the Br leaves, wouldn't the steric hinderance impede attack from the top?
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Just want to confirm:

Not all SN1 reactions yield racemic products right?

Like if there is some type of steric hinderance from the rest of the structure (e.g., bulky groups adjacent to the carbon being attacked) then you can get major/minor products, correct?
SN1 goes through a carbocation intermediate (sp2 hybridized). This is the first step. From there, a nucleophile can attack either face, so racemization can occur but it's only worth considering in instances were the product being formed is chiral. Also, even though we say racemization does occur, technically speaking, there is a little more of the inverted product (more inversion than retention).

Also, another thing to be careful for is that carbocations can rearrange, so while the original electrophile was chiral, the product doesn't necessarily have to be (because the carbocation can shift to a new location).
 
SN1 goes through a carbocation intermediate (sp2 hybridized). This is the first step. From there, a nucleophile can attack either face, so racemization can occur but it's only worth considering in instances were the product being formed is chiral. Also, even though we say racemization does occur, technically speaking, there is a little more of the inverted product (more inversion than retention).

Also, another thing to be careful for is that carbocations can rearrange, so while the original electrophile was chiral, the product doesn't necessarily have to be (because the carbocation can shift to a new location).

Sidetrack question: If a methyl shift and a H shift are both possible, how do you know which to do?
 
Sidetrack question: If a methyl shift and a H shift are both possible, how do you know which to do?
It depends, but in each scenario the focus is on attaining the most stable carbocation, so you have to evaluate which movement would yield a more stable carbocation. The trend of carbocation stability is tertiary carbocations are more stable than secondary, which is in turn, more stable than primary (due to hyperconjugation or donation of e-density to the carbocation by neighboring alkyl groups). In all three scenarios, being allylic or benzyllic also increases the stability of the carbocation (due to resonance). So, let's say a carbocation forms at a secondary carbon. Next door to it, there are two carbons (one on each side). One of these carbons has 3 alkyl groups attached, the other has 1 alkyl group, 1 hydrogen, and a benzene ring. Which is the better shift? Most people might predict the alkyl shift would be better, because a tertiary carbocation would be formed (generally the case). However, the hydride shift would allow for a secondary carbocation that is even more resonance stabilized due to the benzene ring. Ultimately, it's based on stability. Also, in some scenarios, both of the neighboring carbons have equal or less carbocation stability and in those scenarios, no shift would likely occur.
 
It depends, but in each scenario the focus is on attaining the most stable carbocation, so you have to evaluate which movement would yield a more stable carbocation. The trend of carbocation stability is tertiary carbocations are more stable than secondary, which is in turn, more stable than primary (due to hyperconjugation or donation of e-density to the carbocation by neighboring alkyl groups). In all three scenarios, being allylic or benzyllic also increases the stability of the carbocation (due to resonance). So, let's say a carbocation forms at a secondary carbon. Next door to it, there are two carbons (one on each side). One of these carbons has 3 alkyl groups attached, the other has 1 alkyl group, 1 hydrogen, and a benzene ring. Which is the better shift? Most people might predict the alkyl shift would be better, because a tertiary carbocation would be formed (generally the case). However, the hydride shift would allow for a secondary carbocation that is even more resonance stabilized due to the benzene ring. Ultimately, it's based on stability. Also, in some scenarios, both of the neighboring carbons have equal or less carbocation stability and in those scenarios, no shift would likely occur.

And I guess if there is a "tie" in stability (e.g., methyl shift would allow for tertiary carbocation on one carbon, hydride shift would allow for tertiary carbocation on the other carbon), we'd just say both occur equally?
 
And I guess if there is a "tie" in stability (e.g., methyl shift would allow for tertiary carbocation on one carbon, hydride shift would allow for tertiary carbocation on the other carbon), we'd just say both occur equally?
No, because it's an energy costly process with no benefit (no added stability). It just wouldn't be energetically favorable in that case, so we wouldn't even consider it happening.
 
No, because it's an energy costly process with no benefit (no added stability). It just wouldn't be energetically favorable in that case, so we wouldn't even consider it happening.

I mean like:
Let's say you have Carbon_X that is currently a secondary carbocation.
On the left of Carbon_X, you have a group that can allow for a tertiary carbocation via a methyl shift.
On the right of Carbon_X, you have a group that can allow fro a tertiary carbocation via a hydride shift.
 
I mean like:
Let's say you have Carbon_X that is currently a secondary carbocation.
On the left of Carbon_X, you have a group that can allow for a tertiary carbocation via a methyl shift.
On the right of Carbon_X, you have a group that can allow fro a tertiary carbocation via a hydride shift.
I see what you mean. Yes, because either is equally favorable in that scenario, both would be a major intermediate and yield the major product.
 
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