SOAP: Would you apply to a program that did not offer you an interview earlier?

[sella turcica]

In the event that I have to SOAP tomorrow, I thought it would be good to ask this. I applied to something like 15 programs and submitted my app on the day it opened, but only got four interviews (long story for another day, but this is why I consider myself high risk for SOAPing). After I started to realize the paucity of interviews, I bolused another bunch of applications through ERAS. Of course, these went out like a month later and all of the programs in my second "bolus" did not offer me an interview.

I got the typical "we had so many applicants this year, we're sorry we couldn't interview everybody" letter from most places. A couple of places simply wrote back that they would not offer me an interview. Some never even wrote back. So here's what I was wondering: Let's say I SOAP tomorrow. We only get 30 spots to name. Should I bother applying to some of those programs that did not extend me an interview offer the first time around (if they didn't fill)? Recall that I sent a late application to some of these places, so I'm wondering if they had already filled their interview schedules/etc.

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[notinkansas]

I'm in a similar situation, sans the second bolus. SInce I bet only a few of the programs I originally applied to won't fill, I figure no harm in using a couple of my 30 to re-apply.

 

[m1345]

I have no idea whether this is recommended or a smart strategy, but I would think that it could make a lot of sense to reapply bc the PD may be more interested in your application and consider it more seriously if you've shown an interest in the program from the start. Its like getting a love letter from a program in Feb...even if you know it shouldn't change your rank list and that it might mean nothing, its hard not to like them a little more (or at least pull up their website one more time) for "liking" you

 

[xrevision]

In your case I would reapply to some of your "second bolus" applications because they were late and they probably had very limited interview spots available by the time they even got your application on ERAS.

P.S. Why in the world did you only apply to 15 programs initially? That just blows my type-A personality mind.

 

[sella turcica]

P.S. Why in the world did you only apply to 15 programs initially? That just blows my type-A personality mind.

In retrospect I should have applied to more. I dunno, I thought I would have gotten a few more. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There's no data to go on, so my answer is all by gut feel.

Any program that you applied to on "opening day" is probably a waste. Chances are that if you didn't meet their minimum criteria for an interview the first time, you probably won't the second time either. Sure, it's possible that you were the "first kid not picked" -- i.e. that you would have gotten an interview had there been one more slot. But that's unlikely.

Programs to which you applied late, you may not have gotten an interview because you applied late. Hence, it very well may be worth it to reapply. But honestly I think this should be very low on your reasons to choose a program. I doubt PD's will care much whether you applied before or not. We get 100's or 1000's of applications, and if I decide not to invite you I honestly don't think much more about it. Another way to think about it is that if a program gets 1000 applications and interviews 200 applicants and then ends up in SOAP, when those 100 applicants of the 800 who didn't get interviewed apply for the one open position, whether they applied before or not is not going to make them stand out.

Let's also address the last posibility -- that a program that you interviewed at and ranked is in SOAP, and you are unmatched. This can ONLY happen if the program didn't rank you (or you didn't rank the program). This is a harder situation, since they actively decided not to rank you. In general, I would not apply to programs like this unless you have a specific geographic or other driver.

So how do you choose where to apply?

The most obvious factor should be the number of spots open. The more spots open, the better chance of getting one. Also, programs with a higher number of spots open are likely to be more flexible on their picks.

Remember that SOAP is not a match. The basic strategy in the match for both applicants and programs is to rank those people/places that you want more higher on your list. In SOAP, this is NOT true. Applicants do not submit lists at all. Programs submit lists, and the best strategy is to rank people in the order that they are likely to come to your program -- else you may find that if your #1 person (for one open SOAP slot) goes somewhere else, that your #2 through #10 people have chosen other programs in the first round.

So, other than number of spots, the second most important factor is your likelihood of going to that program, even if you get other offers. Convincing programs of this is not easy.

 

[sella turcica]

aPD, this is great advice, thank you. I also figured that bothering with the "first bolus" of programs who didn't interview me would be a waste, so it's good to get some confirmation of that (even if you say it's your gut feeling. It was mine too).

Also I appreciate the advice on the SOAP mechanism. We read about it over and over in the NRMP guide but it's good to know.

I am under the impression that when I apply to XYZ program in round one of SOAP, that I don't need to reapply to XYZ program in round two of SOAP, correct? In other words, let's say XYZ has three open spots. I list them but don't hear from them and don't see an offer on Wendesday. They hypothetically only fill one slot in round one. Do they still have an opportunity to contact me in round two or must I resubmit program XYZ on my round two list for that to happen?

 

[cheruka]

Does anyone know if one can add a 5th recommendation letter to the applicaiton during SOAP?

 

[notinkansas]

There's no data to go on, so my answer is all by gut feel.

Any program that you applied to on "opening day" is probably a waste. Chances are that if you didn't meet their minimum criteria for an interview the first time, you probably won't the second time either. Sure, it's possible that you were the "first kid not picked" -- i.e. that you would have gotten an interview had there been one more slot.


So, other than number of spots, the second most important factor is your likelihood of going to that program, even if you get other offers. Convincing programs of this is not easy.

Thanks for the insight. I was thinking that, if a program didn't interview you because of not meeting specific criteria (e.g., Step 1 score a few points below a cutoff) and the program doesn't fill, they might not be quite so picky in SOAP.

I had not considered that convincing a program during SOAP that I'd pick them over others as a factor.

 

[gutonc]

Does anyone know if one can add a 5th recommendation letter to the applicaiton during SOAP?

You can add additional LORs but you're running out of time to have them uploaded.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I am under the impression that when I apply to XYZ program in round one of SOAP, that I don't need to reapply to XYZ program in round two of SOAP, correct? In other words, let's say XYZ has three open spots. I list them but don't hear from them and don't see an offer on Wendesday. They hypothetically only fill one slot in round one. Do they still have an opportunity to contact me in round two or must I resubmit program XYZ on my round two list for that to happen?

Yes, once you apply in SOAP, it's for all rounds.

 

[Goneril]

Good luck to the SOAPers.

I think aProgDirector has great advice that everyone should heed.

I went through the SOAP last year unsuccessfully, but matched today.

I would like to provide one piece of advice (that will be probably be obvious to most applicants). The SOAP is not the time to be over-reaching. For instance, you may see a vacant position in a more competitive specialty than the one you originally wanted. You may think, like I did, that the program is desperate to fill and will seriously consider you. You will most likely be wrong. Do not waste a SOAP position on 'reach' programs or specialties. Apply for places that you would stand a realistic chance of getting an interview.

Good luck to all of you. This is a very taxing experience.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks for the insight. I was thinking that, if a program didn't interview you because of not meeting specific criteria (e.g., Step 1 score a few points below a cutoff) and the program doesn't fill, they might not be quite so picky in SOAP...

I agree. It's just like asking someone to the prom. They may have initially felt they could do better, and turned you down. But as prom day approaches and they are still dateless, their self esteem bottoms out and suddenly you become not such a bad option. Remember that most programs in SOAP started out thinking they were "all that" but like unmatched applicants, have now realized that they aren't really part of the popular crowd.

SOAP is about finding hidden gems in the scrap heap for both parties, neither of whom was as popular as they originally hoped. You no longer have to be the ideal applicant, just the best option still out there. While I agree with the other poster that SOAP isn't the time to shoot too wildly for the stars, i wouldn't close the door on things you came up short on previously. If you were applying for FM, don't waste your time with the anesthesia or derm spot that falls into SOAP -- the guy who came up short for ortho or rad onc will have the inside track on those. But if you came up short for FM, IM, etc I wouldn't ignore the other specialties of similar competitiveness.

 

[Raryn]

This is moot anyway. I know a few people participating in SOAP, at a couple different medical schools, and ERAS is currently not letting you apply to programs that you had previously applied to this cycle.

The awful thing though, is it won't let you apply to a separate track within the same program either. So if you applied to a bunch of general surgery categoricals, didn't match, and would like to apply to those same program's empty prelim spots... you can't. Even though you didn't apply to the prelim spot at the beginning to start with. That's a totally !@$$ed up system.

 

[Ogenki]

This is moot anyway. I know a few people participating in SOAP, at a couple different medical schools, and ERAS is currently not letting you apply to programs that you had previously applied to this cycle.

The awful thing though, is it won't let you apply to a separate track within the same program either. So if you applied to a bunch of general surgery categoricals, didn't match, and would like to apply to those same program's empty prelim spots... you can't. Even though you didn't apply to the prelim spot at the beginning to start with. That's a totally !@$$ed up system.

You can. Its the re-apply option when picking programs to apply to.

 

[mn2294]

I applied in Ob/Gyn and SOAP'ed into family medicine and internal medicine. I have not heard from ANYONE yet. So despondent

 

[DRZIVAR]

I had a general question as a IMG going through the process who missed out on the SOAP because I did not sign up for NRMP, what options are there for me to move forward past the SOAP. I can go in as second year as well as I have already been credited with one year of FP. Any suggestions could be beneficial during this hard time....