Sooooooo... basically, 3rd year sux assballs

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Frank Nutter

Frank Nutter

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brb patients actually have findings and idk how to examine them
brb what is a SOAP note?
brb my feet are on fire during rounds
brb my attending lol'd and turned away during my presentation
brb classmate i arrived with commended on being early because she happened to be spotted
brb going to the gym, undressing in 10 mins, lifting 5 mins, dressing 10 mins, and leaving
brb i have 15 new log-in user names and passwords for computer record systems
brb i haven't eaten or pee'd in 6 hrs and i have a n ulcer and pre-renal azotemia
brb brb brb brb brb brb
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^and so it begins.
 
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Frank Nutter said:
brb patients actually have findings and idk how to examine them
brb what is a SOAP note?
brb my feet are on fire during rounds
brb my attending lol'd and turned away during my presentation
brb classmate i arrived with commended on being early because she happened to be spotted
brb going to the gym, undressing in 10 mins, lifting 5 mins, dressing 10 mins, and leaving
brb i have 15 new log-in user names and passwords for computer record systems
brb i haven't eaten or pee'd in 6 hrs and i have a n ulcer and pre-renal azotemia
brb brb brb brb brb brb
Click to expand...

Wow! Your med school did you a disservice.


  1. We are expected to know the complete physical exam. Most of us have performed it (at least) 50 times by now (end of 1st year for me). Also they hire actor-patients with pathology so we can hear/feel cardiopulmonary pathology, abnormally palpable organs, prostates, ovaries, etc.
  2. Not only do we write soap notes 1st year, we are expected to be able to present patients cogently. We're even "tested" on this during various group activities. For example, in PBL or in our clinical track the facilitator might simply say, "FunnyCurrent, please present the patient reviewing all information given thus far."
  3. Most of us have spent so much time in clinic we are used to standing constantly. I laughed the other day when one of the undergrad volunteers asked for a break to sit down.
  4. The rest of the stuff you listed will indeed suck
Things won't change unless you act. Consider speaking with the curriculum director if you feel you have not been adequately prepared.
 
Yea, well, we do well on step 1. But I guess it's a trade-off. Anyway 3rd yr still sux assballs.
 
FunnyCurrent said:
Wow! Your med school did you a disservice.


  1. We are expected to know the complete physical exam. Most of us have performed it (at least) 50 times by now (end of 1st year for me)
  2. Not only do we write soap notes 1st year, we are expected to be able to present patients cogently.
  3. Most of us have spent so much time in clinic we are used to standing constantly. I laughed the other day when one of the undergrad volunteers asked for a break to sit down.
  4. The rest of the stuff you listed will indeed suck
Things won't change unless you act. Consider speaking with the curriculum director if you feel you have not been adequately prepared.
Click to expand...


Yea, Frank. You heard the second year.
 
dr zaius said:
Yea, Frank. You heard the second year.
Click to expand...

You're being sarcastic as I'm not even a second year yet. But really, it blows my mind that these things would be an issue. A large proportion of my class volunteers their time in clinic over the summer for this very purpose. We do it probably less out of altruism and more because they treat us like 3rd years and let us do some stuff and take the opportunity to teach. They let us examine the patient first so we can present our physical exam findings and they pimp. I'm only a between my 1st and 2nd year. Still, if someone feels they do not feel prepared or that the curriculum could be improved that is a case for students to drive the movement towards an improved medical education curriculum/system.

Though I guess we can all just continue to bitch and moan about how medicine is taught. That's fine too. I bitch and moan plenty... but usually to the administrators when I think what they've done with an aspect of the curriculum is bulls***
 
FunnyCurrent said:
You're being sarcastic as I'm not even a second year yet. But really, it blows my mind that these things would be an issue. A large proportion of my class volunteers their time in clinic over the summer for this very purpose. We do it probably less out of altruism and more because they treat us like 3rd years and let us do some stuff and take the opportunity to teach. They let us examine the patient first so we can present our physical exam findings and they pimp. I'm only a between my 1st and 2nd year. Still, if someone feels they do not feel prepared or that the curriculum could be improved that is a case for students to drive the movement towards an improved medical education curriculum/system.

Though I guess we can all just continue to bitch and moan about how medicine is taught. That's fine too. I bitch and moan plenty... but usually to the administrators when I think what they've done with an aspect of the curriculum is bulls***
Click to expand...

The real problem is third year everything goes from multiple choice to "fill in the blank" (aka verbal response). You can be asked a large portion of what you learned 2nd year and aren't really given choices.

If you think you can answer all attending questions off the top of your head at the beginning of 3rd year then major props to you...but improving the curriculum isn't really going to make the majority always feel prepared.
 
FunnyCurrent said:
You're being sarcastic as I'm not even a second year yet. But really, it blows my mind that these things would be an issue. A large proportion of my class volunteers their time in clinic over the summer for this very purpose. We do it probably less out of altruism and more because they treat us like 3rd years and let us do some stuff and take the opportunity to teach. They let us examine the patient first so we can present our physical exam findings and they pimp. I'm only a between my 1st and 2nd year. Still, if someone feels they do not feel prepared or that the curriculum could be improved that is a case for students to drive the movement towards an improved medical education curriculum/system.

Though I guess we can all just continue to bitch and moan about how medicine is taught. That's fine too. I bitch and moan plenty... but usually to the administrators when I think what they've done with an aspect of the curriculum is bulls***
Click to expand...

Dude, just skip third and fourth years--you're ready.
 
Frank Nutter said:
brb patients actually have findings and idk how to examine them
brb what is a SOAP note?
brb my feet are on fire during rounds
brb my attending lol'd and turned away during my presentation
brb classmate i arrived with commended on being early because she happened to be spotted
brb going to the gym, undressing in 10 mins, lifting 5 mins, dressing 10 mins, and leaving
brb i have 15 new log-in user names and passwords for computer record systems
brb i haven't eaten or pee'd in 6 hrs and i have a n ulcer and pre-renal azotemia
brb brb brb brb brb brb
Click to expand...

better learn your SOAP notes quick and offer to prewrite your intern's notes or at least write down vitals, meds on them because this intern hates lazy a** 3rd year medical students :smuggrin:
 
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FunnyCurrent said:
You're being sarcastic as I'm not even a second year yet. But really, it blows my mind that these things would be an issue. A large proportion of my class volunteers their time in clinic over the summer for this very purpose. We do it probably less out of altruism and more because they treat us like 3rd years and let us do some stuff and take the opportunity to teach. They let us examine the patient first so we can present our physical exam findings and they pimp. I'm only a between my 1st and 2nd year. Still, if someone feels they do not feel prepared or that the curriculum could be improved that is a case for students to drive the movement towards an improved medical education curriculum/system.

Though I guess we can all just continue to bitch and moan about how medicine is taught. That's fine too. I bitch and moan plenty... but usually to the administrators when I think what they've done with an aspect of the curriculum is bulls***
Click to expand...

please come back when you're a third year and tell us all what a cake walk it is. First year is a completely different world.
 
myhandsarecold said:
better learn your SOAP notes quick and offer to prewrite your intern's notes or at least write down vitals, meds on them because this intern hates lazy a** 3rd year medical students :smuggrin:
Click to expand...

Best Medical Student Award for third years go to those who do pre-writing of notes. :love:
 
FunnyCurrent said:
Wow! Your med school did you a disservice.


  1. We are expected to know the complete physical exam. Most of us have performed it (at least) 50 times by now (end of 1st year for me). Also they hire actor-patients with pathology so we can hear/feel cardiopulmonary pathology, abnormally palpable organs, prostates, ovaries, etc.
  2. Not only do we write soap notes 1st year, we are expected to be able to present patients cogently. We're even "tested" on this during various group activities. For example, in PBL or in our clinical track the facilitator might simply say, "FunnyCurrent, please present the patient reviewing all information given thus far."
  3. Most of us have spent so much time in clinic we are used to standing constantly. I laughed the other day when one of the undergrad volunteers asked for a break to sit down.
  4. The rest of the stuff you listed will indeed suck
Things won't change unless you act. Consider speaking with the curriculum director if you feel you have not been adequately prepared.
Click to expand...

Not only do you come across as a completely annoying tool, to those of us that have tread the waters of med school much longer than you, you come across as a naive idiot.
 
Ignore anyone who has posted anything that isn't sympathetic....they will be the attendings who have the attitude "we did it so you have to". Third year is a different ball game. Everything you did during the two first years leaves you woefully unprepared. I think my med school did about as good a job as one could expect, even still, it's a different game. All the SP's, time in clinic and mock H&Ps don't cut it

Yes, standing that long sucks. I'm in the second month of my fourth year. It still sucks. Hopefully after being in residency for a few months, it won't suck as bad. No, going to clinic a day a week in my first two years and a few periods of a couple weeks at a time didn't make third year easier. It just sucks. Sorry. Also, there's no magic shoe that makes it easier. I kept looking for a shoe that left my feet not hurting after 16 hours. Some made them hurt less, but they still hurts. It's the cost of doing business.

Notes take a little while to get used to. It's different writing a note on a standardized patient. Also, every rotation is different. What you are expected to include in IM is different from psych is different from surgery.

Presentations are attending specific. Some attendings want to know the patients entire social history, others just want to know their CC and labs, others want your Ddx and workup. You'll figure out what different docs want quickly.

I gained about 10 lbs during MS3. Trying to get back into shape now that im in 4th year. Just try to eat breakfast and snack healthy.

The good news: Third year really is fun. It's more work than the first two years and it's different, but I really do think that it's better. There's a steep learning curve. You'll get it. Once you get it, you'll enjoy it more.

Good luck!
 
diagonal said:
Not only do you come across as a completely annoying tool, to those of us that have tread the waters of med school much longer than you, you come across as a naive idiot.
Click to expand...

I'd like to echo what some people have already said by reiterating the stupidity of an MS2 dismissing third-year as easy.
 
GladifImakeit said:
I'd like to echo what some people have already said by reiterating the stupidity of an MS2 dismissing third-year as easy.
Click to expand...


Ooooh watch out... even the bunny is coming after me.

*Braces self for onslaught*

lol
 
Yea, I doubt you're going to find many people taking your side in this thread, not even me.
 
I start rotations in IM next week. I am expecting the worse but hoping that it isn't so bad. I haven't even heard about the SOAP note till this week during orientation. sucks :(
 
HelpPleaseMD said:
I start rotations in IM next week. I am expecting the worse but hoping that it isn't so bad. I haven't even heard about the SOAP note till this week during orientation. sucks :(
Click to expand...

3686d0.jpg
 
FSU2013 said:
Ignore anyone who has posted anything that isn't sympathetic....they will be the attendings who have the attitude "we did it so you have to". Third year is a different ball game. Everything you did during the two first years leaves you woefully unprepared. I think my med school did about as good a job as one could expect, even still, it's a different game. All the SP's, time in clinic and mock H&Ps don't cut it

Yes, standing that long sucks. I'm in the second month of my fourth year. It still sucks. Hopefully after being in residency for a few months, it won't suck as bad. No, going to clinic a day a week in my first two years and a few periods of a couple weeks at a time didn't make third year easier. It just sucks. Sorry. Also, there's no magic shoe that makes it easier. I kept looking for a shoe that left my feet not hurting after 16 hours. Some made them hurt less, but they still hurts. It's the cost of doing business.

Notes take a little while to get used to. It's different writing a note on a standardized patient. Also, every rotation is different. What you are expected to include in IM is different from psych is different from surgery.

Presentations are attending specific. Some attendings want to know the patients entire social history, others just want to know their CC and labs, others want your Ddx and workup. You'll figure out what different docs want quickly.

I gained about 10 lbs during MS3. Trying to get back into shape now that im in 4th year. Just try to eat breakfast and snack healthy.

The good news: Third year really is fun. It's more work than the first two years and it's different, but I really do think that it's better. There's a steep learning curve. You'll get it. Once you get it, you'll enjoy it more.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

this is great advice

FunnyCurrent said:
Wow! Your med school did you a disservice.


  1. We are expected to know the complete physical exam. Most of us have performed it (at least) 50 times by now (end of 1st year for me). Also they hire actor-patients with pathology so we can hear/feel cardiopulmonary pathology, abnormally palpable organs, prostates, ovaries, etc.
  2. Not only do we write soap notes 1st year, we are expected to be able to present patients cogently. We're even "tested" on this during various group activities. For example, in PBL or in our clinical track the facilitator might simply say, "FunnyCurrent, please present the patient reviewing all information given thus far."
  3. Most of us have spent so much time in clinic we are used to standing constantly. I laughed the other day when one of the undergrad volunteers asked for a break to sit down.
  4. The rest of the stuff you listed will indeed suck
Things won't change unless you act. Consider speaking with the curriculum director if you feel you have not been adequately prepared.
Click to expand...

terrible "advice" since i'm sure in clinic the attending dances around in circles if you sortof know something or can put together a remotely readable note whereas in real life people aren't as accommodating. also i'm assuming this is outpatient primary care right? that's going to be by far the easiest and most laid back ~month of third year.

the best prep from preclinical years are learning how to do physical exam maneuvers and learning the info as best you can. none of this other stuff you do (that you complained about in another thread nonetheless) is going to help with third year.
 
this sounds like a high school chick post with the "brb" usage :p
 
FunnyCurrent said:
Wow! Your med school did you a disservice.


  1. We are expected to know the complete physical exam. Most of us have performed it (at least) 50 times by now (end of 1st year for me). Also they hire actor-patients with pathology so we can hear/feel cardiopulmonary pathology, abnormally palpable organs, prostates, ovaries, etc.
  2. Not only do we write soap notes 1st year, we are expected to be able to present patients cogently. We're even "tested" on this during various group activities. For example, in PBL or in our clinical track the facilitator might simply say, "FunnyCurrent, please present the patient reviewing all information given thus far."
  3. Most of us have spent so much time in clinic we are used to standing constantly. I laughed the other day when one of the undergrad volunteers asked for a break to sit down.
  4. The rest of the stuff you listed will indeed suck
Things won't change unless you act. Consider speaking with the curriculum director if you feel you have not been adequately prepared.
Click to expand...

Damn, that sounds intense. It seems like most people don't get to see/do that much before clinicals anyways Especially seeing abnormal pathologies(EVERY SP in basic science were just normal healthy people).

Clinical in 1st-2nd year is a joke. The attendings would be surprised if you knew what a history and physical was and jumped for joy. Standing around...how the hell does that happen in basic sciences aka the easy years? I probably did that like 2 hours a month maybe, i don't remember. Personally, it seems hard to even DO a SOAP note if you don't know what to do for a P at all without being laughed at.
 
Last edited:
Frank Nutter said:
brb patients actually have findings and idk how to examine them
brb what is a SOAP note?
brb my feet are on fire during rounds
brb my attending lol'd and turned away during my presentation
brb classmate i arrived with commended on being early because she happened to be spotted
brb going to the gym, undressing in 10 mins, lifting 5 mins, dressing 10 mins, and leaving
brb i have 15 new log-in user names and passwords for computer record systems
brb i haven't eaten or pee'd in 6 hrs and i have a n ulcer and pre-renal azotemia
brb brb brb brb brb brb
Click to expand...
I think I'm in lurve...unless you're a male...in which case we'd chest bump (brah).
 
.................



FunnyCurrent said:
Wow! Your med school did you a disservice.


  1. We are expected to know the complete physical exam. Most of us have performed it (at least) 50 times by now (end of 1st year for me). Also they hire actor-patients with pathology so we can hear/feel cardiopulmonary pathology, abnormally palpable organs, prostates, ovaries, etc.
  2. Not only do we write soap notes 1st year, we are expected to be able to present patients cogently. We're even "tested" on this during various group activities. For example, in PBL or in our clinical track the facilitator might simply say, "FunnyCurrent, please present the patient reviewing all information given thus far."
  3. Most of us have spent so much time in clinic we are used to standing constantly. I laughed the other day when one of the undergrad volunteers asked for a break to sit down.
  4. The rest of the stuff you listed will indeed suck
Things won't change unless you act. Consider speaking with the curriculum director if you feel you have not been adequately prepared.
Click to expand...
 
Med students!= great clinicians. That takes all of residency plus years after, so an M3 that can do a PE and write a SOAP note... Well, it doesn't mean much.
 
FSU2013 said:
Sorry. Also, there's no magic shoe that makes it easier. I kept looking for a shoe that left my feet not hurting after 16 hours. Some made them hurt less, but they still hurts. It's the cost of doing business.
Click to expand...

Have you tried Ecco shoes? (they are business-dress type shoes) Cost an arm and a bucket of legs, but most amazing things my dogs have ever experienced.
 
thecgrblue said:
Have you tried Ecco shoes? (they are business-dress type shoes) Cost an arm and a bucket of legs, but most amazing things my dogs have ever experienced.
Click to expand...

I second Eccos. They are quite good for when you need dress shoes. When you can wear anything brooks running shoes did me right. Standing still sucks especially in one place especially for long periods of time especially while wearing your white coat especially while hungry especially while nervous especially while tired.. essentially if you are a student.

Third year wasn't that bad it flew by it had its great moments and it's not so great moments. Protip, when you are given the opportunity to go home take it every time and go quickly before the opportunity is lost. Never ask to leave though.
 
Frank Nutter said:
brb patients actually have findings and idk how to examine them
brb what is a SOAP note?
brb my feet are on fire during rounds
brb my attending lol'd and turned away during my presentation
brb classmate i arrived with commended on being early because she happened to be spotted
brb going to the gym, undressing in 10 mins, lifting 5 mins, dressing 10 mins, and leaving
brb i have 15 new log-in user names and passwords for computer record systems
brb i haven't eaten or pee'd in 6 hrs and i have a n ulcer and pre-renal azotemia
brb brb brb brb brb brb
Click to expand...

Yeah, third year kinda sucks. You'll get used to it though and it'll get better over time. Right of passage :laugh:

As for the feet on fire, I can definitely sympathize. My feet used to kill me. Consider investing in a pair of Birkenstock, Dansko, or Clark's cloggs. I highly recommend a good pair of Birkenstock clogs. Most of the surgeons at my hospital also wear Birkenstock cloggs. They are a bit pricey, but are waterproof (no need to worry about blood etc), very durable (will last many years), and ridiculously comfortable. They are the only shoes I would want to stand in for over 10 hours. I swear by them.

Lol as for your last point somehow I think your body begins to adjust over time, or at least mine did. After years of not being able to pee when I wanted to my body is now just programmed to go before and after work.
 
Perhaps I'm the extreme minority on this one, but I actually like 3rd year. There are definitely parts of it that suck, but there's also a lot of it that I really enjoy.

I think the thing is to shift your expectations a little. I think you should have two goals for third year: 1) getting exposure to a huge variety of fields in medicine so you can figure out what you should do with your life, and 2) helping make your resident's life easier.

I think #2 is the part people get confused about. You are completely unnecessary clinically -- the hospital would function and the patient's care would be delivered exactly the same without you there. What you can do (and actually be useful) is help take some of the workload off of the massively overworked residents. Some of that is scut, true, but if you look at it in perspective -- it's the one thing you can actually do that contributes. Just my 2c

There's definitely some learning, but it's a distant third -- the fact is, I'm not going to learn enough OB/GYN during these 8 weeks to be able to reasonably use that knowledge without further training. Hence residency.
 
sanityonleave said:
There's definitely some learning, but it's a distant third -- the fact is, I'm not going to learn enough OB/GYN during these 8 weeks to be able to reasonably use that knowledge without further training. Hence residency.
Click to expand...

i definitely disagree. for the vast majority of med students those 8 weeks of ob are the only exposure they will ever have for the rest of your career to many ob/gyn issues and particularly to pregnant patients. if you don't learn it now you might never learn it.
 
sanityonleave said:
Perhaps I'm the extreme minority on this one, but I actually like 3rd year. There are definitely parts of it that suck, but there's also a lot of it that I really enjoy.

I think the thing is to shift your expectations a little. I think you should have two goals for third year: 1) getting exposure to a huge variety of fields in medicine so you can figure out what you should do with your life, and 2) helping make your resident's life easier.

I think #2 is the part people get confused about. You are completely unnecessary clinically -- the hospital would function and the patient's care would be delivered exactly the same without you there. What you can do (and actually be useful) is help take some of the workload off of the massively overworked residents. Some of that is scut, true, but if you look at it in perspective -- it's the one thing you can actually do that contributes. Just my 2c

There's definitely some learning, but it's a distant third -- the fact is, I'm not going to learn enough OB/GYN during these 8 weeks to be able to reasonably use that knowledge without further training. Hence residency.
Click to expand...
:thumbup:
 
FunnyCurrent said:
Wow! Your med school did you a disservice.


  1. We are expected to know the complete physical exam. Most of us have performed it (at least) 50 times by now (end of 1st year for me). Also they hire actor-patients with pathology so we can hear/feel cardiopulmonary pathology, abnormally palpable organs, prostates, ovaries, etc.
  2. Not only do we write soap notes 1st year, we are expected to be able to present patients cogently. We're even "tested" on this during various group activities. For example, in PBL or in our clinical track the facilitator might simply say, "FunnyCurrent, please present the patient reviewing all information given thus far."
  3. Most of us have spent so much time in clinic we are used to standing constantly. I laughed the other day when one of the undergrad volunteers asked for a break to sit down.
  4. The rest of the stuff you listed will indeed suck
Things won't change unless you act. Consider speaking with the curriculum director if you feel you have not been adequately prepared.
Click to expand...

Watch out, we got a badass. Fifty - that's right, FIFTY- exams.

(sent from my phone - please forgive typos)
 
Third year is hard at first. You get used to it. Don't listen to the sub third year posters-they are just trying to assuage their own insecurity most likely.

It is all monkey games. As a wise intern once told me, the best student's evals are a B+ and the worst are a B-...the difference between a B and an A is your shelf score. The worst eventuality is usually a B or a P probably in most cases. Ask questions whenever you have one, it's better to be on the obnoxious side than on the invisible side in my experience. Frankly, you aren't going to learn a lot of objective type things this year from clinicals so you might as well try to get some pearls.

Most important part of third year is figuring out what to do with the rest of your life!!!!! DO NOT FORGET THIS! Or you will be like me and be in your second fourth year rotation and not even be sure between surgery/medical/non patient oriented etc~! Try to write down when you actually feel happy to wake up in the morning and go in...and why. I wish I had done that.
 
I just finished first year, but I can somewhat understand the original poster's despair. I'd imagine its a whole different ballgame between talking about what an abnormal finding is and understanding what an abnormal finding feels like on physical exam.

I read one of the new third year's facebook updates about how brutal its been adjusting to having to be in the hospital at 5AM for IM pre-rounding... I had a twinge of fear when I realized that's going to be me this time next year...
 
For me it was learning less clinical medicine and more the culture of medicine. Maybe if you come from a a family of doctors or have lots more experience you won't have a problem, but things can definitely take getting used to.
 
FunnyCurrent said:
A large proportion of my class volunteers their time in clinic over the summer for this very purpose. We do it probably less out of altruism and more because they treat us like 3rd years and let us do some stuff and take the opportunity to teach.
Click to expand...

Sounds like we went to completely different schools. The largest proportion of our class did research during the summer in hopes of boosting an application for competitive residencies. The others mostly went on vacation, or some neurotic ones started studying for Step 1. Very few spent time in clinic...
 
FunnyCurrent said:
You're being sarcastic as I'm not even a second year yet. But really, it blows my mind that these things would be an issue. A large proportion of my class volunteers their time in clinic over the summer for this very purpose. We do it probably less out of altruism and more because they treat us like 3rd years and let us do some stuff and take the opportunity to teach. They let us examine the patient first so we can present our physical exam findings and they pimp. I'm only a between my 1st and 2nd year. Still, if someone feels they do not feel prepared or that the curriculum could be improved that is a case for students to drive the movement towards an improved medical education curriculum/system.

Though I guess we can all just continue to bitch and moan about how medicine is taught. That's fine too. I bitch and moan plenty... but usually to the administrators when I think what they've done with an aspect of the curriculum is bulls***
Click to expand...

lol is this guy serious?
 
normtheniner said:
I just finished first year, but I can somewhat understand the original poster's despair. I'd imagine its a whole different ballgame between talking about what an abnormal finding is and understanding what an abnormal finding feels like on physical exam.

I read one of the new third year's facebook updates about how brutal its been adjusting to having to be in the hospital at 5AM for IM pre-rounding... I had a twinge of fear when I realized that's going to be me this time next year...
Click to expand...

I wish I could of got their at 5am this morning!! Post call....left at 11pm last night, back at 3:45 for rounds at 5am
 
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