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Suggested GPRs for Ortho wannabes that didnt match?

Discussion in 'Dental Residents and Practicing Dentists' started by dentalgent06, Dec 3, 2005.

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  1. dentalgent06

    dentalgent06 Junior Member

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    Does anyone who didnt match for ortho their first time around but did at a later attempt have any suggestions for those of us that have found ourselves matchless and clueless about GPRs? These may seem like silly question but....

    Should letters of rec that are specifically directed towards ortho and mention your interest and qualifications for an ortho residency be rewritten by faculty? Should letters of rec be from clinical faculty rather than ones you may have used from faculty that discussed your research and volunteer experiences?

    What should your essay say? Should it exclude the fact that you are interested in ortho or applied at all?

    If you missed PASS and program deadlines cause you were waiting for the ortho match results can you still apply to GPRs, does calling them do anything?

    Do certain GPRs have program directors that will be supportive in your attempts to get into ortho while you are just starting their program?

    Should you contact places you interviewed at to find out why you didn't get in (especially the ones that gave you good vibes)?

    Are some GPRs more prestigious than others?


    THANKS!!!!!!
  2. gryffindor

    gryffindor

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    It's a little late considering most GPRs are probably interviewing already or very soon.

    If you had the stats to get ortho interviews, you will definitely get GPR interviews. No doubt. I wouldn't worry so much about what the letters say (maybe ask the faculty to delete the word "ortho" and replace it with "GP"). I would just take the essay and do the same thing, just fix it to make it say "GP" instead of ortho.

    You can call the programs to see if they will still take your application. It's getting late though. I mentioned in my GPR interviews that I wanted to apply to ortho; I didn't want to be in a program where they didn't want me if I was aiming to specialize.

    What you are looking for is a GPR that has an ortho component; that way you get to meet some orthodontists, make some new connections. It is nice if they have oral surgeons who do some orthognathic stuff, then you may get to assist on the surgeries and learn a bit about that.

    You could contact the schools you got good vibes from, but I found that quite useless. I tried, but I usually got a generic answer. And it took me a long time to realize why - everyone is qualified to do ortho. There is nothing hard about it. The people who don't get in are just as qualified as the ones who do, so the schools just don't know what to tell the unmatched applicants except something that sounds good to get rid of them.
  3. rarm1

    rarm1 Senior Member SDN Advisor

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    It is never too late to apply. There will be many spots open after the match... or even in non-match programs. We expanded from 6 to 8 residents and filled our final positions late last year.

    See if the program will help you to reach you potental ... many only want GPs

    We have had orthodontist as residents... required residency in Delaware.. and have had many go on to speciality programs.
  4. wayoutwest

    wayoutwest Member

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    If you're interested, it's time to get moving! When I started to emerge from my post match stupor (sometime Thursday night), I began looking into GPRs. I emailed 6-8 programs that night, and by Friday afternoon had my first interview. By Monday afternoon I had 3 more offers. I told all of them that I want to do ortho and didn't match this year. They are being very understanding about the application, and are accepting my ortho PASS application, or just copies of my CV and letter and transcripts. Many of them are past their deadlines, but are taking my application anyway. So, time to get going. Hope this helps.


  5. rarm1

    rarm1 Senior Member SDN Advisor

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    Where are you located? what state would you like a GPR in? often after the match is a great time. Many not in match are looking now.... give us a look at christianacare.org
  6. Surfs up

    Surfs up Member

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    A warning about GPR programs for getting into ortho residency programs: they may actually hurt you! Some of the ortho programs who receive GME funding never take a GPR graduate because it would interfere with the funding (as a GPR grad you would enter as a PGY-2 status). There wasn't a single interviewee with GPR experience at 2 of the ortho interviews that I attended this year, so I would check with your favorite ortho programs (ask or notice if any of the ortho residents have completed a GPR) before you pursue this track. In addition, I would try an ortho fellowship before shooting for a GPR program just because of the pure success rate. Some of these ortho fellowships have close to a 100% success rate when compared to the match stats for "Pre-2006 Graduates w/ Previous Training" having a success rate of 38/111 for this year. Yes the GPR is nice because you get paid and can stay in your home city (which is the #1 priority for many people), but how badly do you want to match next year? And yes you can match w/ a GPR, but I would look at the percentages.
  7. wayoutwest

    wayoutwest Member

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    The problem is, I don't think those ortho fellowships pay anything, and for some of us that won't work. What is the success rate for reapplicants who go into some sort of practice? I would expect reapplicant rates to be lower than initial applicants, because you would assume that reapplicant pool is kind of the bottom of the barrel, so to speak - although of course I think I am highly qualified!

  8. rarm1

    rarm1 Senior Member SDN Advisor

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    With the change in GME funding MOST ortho program do not get funding. Those that did are lossing it. SO - "A warning about GPR programs for getting into ortho residency programs: they may actually hurt you! Some of the ortho programs who receive GME funding never take a GPR graduate because it would interfere with the funding" is generally wrong.

    Again check with the programs.... many will help you reach your goals.
  9. Surfs up

    Surfs up Member

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    Don't blame the messenger. I am telling you that at 2 of the interviews which still do receive GME funding they didn't have a single GPR interviewee (& I KNOW that there are many qualified applicants who do a GPR & re-apply). Again, check with the residents at the programs first (I wouldn't contact the secretaries or directors because all they want is your application fee & would tell you anything). I am not saying that all ortho programs with GME funding discriminate against PGY experience, but ortho is already EXTREMELY difficult enough to get into so why would you limit yourself even more? I know that the tuition is a major turn off for these fellowships, but if your goal is to get into a program as quickly as possible then a fellowship is your best chance. I know a fellow who has a family and took out loans and he matched. 4 fellows from Florida's program matched this year so make that 34/107 for the other pre-2006 grads w/ previous training for a 31.8% success rate. The success rate for pre-2006 grads w/ no graduate training (those who go into private practice) is 46/137 for a 33.6% success rate. How many years do you want to lose? I am pointing this out because I personally know 2 applicants who did a GPR out of dental school and got in after a 3rd try, and another applicant who did an AEGD this year and didn't match despite having a high GPA and mid 90s part 1.
  10. gryffindor

    gryffindor

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    A few things:

    1) I think those with the fellowship are lumped in the "pre-2006 grad with previous training." Getting into a fellowship position is competitive too, so even if you wanted to do it, you might not get that either and you're back to the GPR/AEGD vs. private practice debate again.

    2) Two years ago, the numbers were VERY different. In 2004, 86 of the pre-2004 grads matched. Of those 86, 27 had no previous grad training (came from private practice I assume) while 59 had previous graduate training. That's DOUBLE success among the pre-2004 grads of those with post-grad training vs. those with none. Look at 2005 - of the 88 pre-2005 grads who matched, 36 had no previous grad training while 52 had some post-grad training. So it is unusual that the stats flipped this year - of the 84 pre-2006 who matched, 46 had no previous grad training while 38 did.

    The only thing that stayed constant over the 3 years is that only about 85 match spots (out of about 250 match spots available) went to pre-200x grads. So it is already more competitive for you if you are not a newbie going into the ortho match.

    I think the conclusion is that it is all unpredictable, which was my conclusion before anyways.
  11. dentalgent06

    dentalgent06 Junior Member

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    First, thanks to everyone on this thread for the advice. I would give more info about myself, dental school, and location but I'ld rather remain anonymous....

    anyway, I have no clue what this "GME funding" post is about....What's the difference between GME funding an ortho program or other sources, and how do you how the different programs are funded? I learned so much going through the whole process this year but forgive me for remaining ignorant to aspects like such. I would consider a fellowship but my understanding is the that there is only one and its at UF (that is not an option for me.) Are there any others?
  12. rarm1

    rarm1 Senior Member SDN Advisor

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    "I have no clue what this "GME funding" post is about"
    GME - graduate medical education - funded via payment to hospitals for training residents. They include only (generaly only) American citzens (many exceptions). To limit the funding costs of GME the government put a "CAP" (limited) on the number of residency spots so programs won't expand but Congress exempted dental program - Because to cost of education is high and most dental graduate programs are not funded/were not funded. Several hospitals partnered with many universities and added existing graduate program. The funding agency (not listening to the congress ) decided this was stretching the purpose and eliminated most dental school program from GME... as they spot them they are eliminating them. Some, especially those that are hospital based will still be allowed.
    GPRs, hospital based AEGDs are still allowed to expand and be funded.
  13. Surfs up

    Surfs up Member

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    From what I heard, there's a craniofacial ortho fellowship in Chicago that has been around for 5 years and takes 2 fellows/year. Their success rate has been 6/9 (better than the 33% rate of GPR/AEGD or private practice). The Florida fellowship has been around for 10 years, and out of those 10 years only one fellow has not matched when you consider that they've had 3-4 fellows per year. A craniofacial research at Nova guarantees you a spot into their ortho residency program, but "supposedly" that fellowship no longer exists. There's a craniofacial research fellowship at Vanderbilt which takes 1 fellow per year and I don't have any information about their track record. The best thing to do is to call up these programs.
  14. orthogirlie

    orthogirlie New Member

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    Rumor has it...persistence pays off...that one fellow from UF that didn't match, matched this year at UF! So, count the UF fellowship as 100% successful.

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