PhD/PsyD Suggestions after not matching (Neuro Postdoc)...

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SoCloseYetSoFarAway

SoCloseYetSoFarAway

Predoctoral Intern
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Unfortunately, I did not match in February after the "speed dating" interview process at INS. I have attempted to contact different hospitals and medical centers/groups to no avail. I feel like all I'm left with are informal, PP postdocs. I have reservations as I do want to be board certified in the future. If not PP, what else are my options? Work? Get licensed? Anyone in the same position as me currently or has been in my position in the past?
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Are you interested in the VA setting? I think there were a few neuro VA post-doc openings left over.
 
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I actually am. I haven't seen any in the past 2 weeks. Which VA's still have openings?
 
I would agree that monitoring the listserves, as you're doing, is probably going to be your best bet, as postdoc announcements tend to pop up throughout the year. If your current TD isn't already forwarding you offers that come her/his way, you could also ask that they do so. And while a PP postdoc may not necessarily be ideal, there are certainly some that are much better than others, and that may be able to offer a good training experience (particularly if they're near and/or are partnering with a local hospital/medical center).
 
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Thank you for all the responses so far :)

I have started "cold" contacting different PP's in my area and neighboring states. There isn't a listserve or database for PP's that I'm missing, right?
 
SoCloseYetSoFarAway said:
Thank you for all the responses so far :)

I have started "cold" contacting different PP's in my area and neighboring states. There isn't a listserve or database for PP's that I'm missing, right?
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Not that I've ever seen or heard of, nope. All of the later postdoc notifications I've seen pop up are via listserves (e.g., AACN, NPsych).
 
May be a good idea to contact ABPP about what is and is not copacetic for future board certification. It'd suck to do something and then find out it didn't conform to HC guidelines and be a barrier to getting that board cert, which is becoming ever more important these days.
 
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WisNeuro said:
May be a good idea to contact ABPP about what is and is not copacetic for future board certification. It'd suck to do something and then find out it didn't conform to HC guidelines and be a barrier to getting that board cert, which is becoming ever more important these days.
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Yep, this as well, especially if you've already got your eye on a few PP openings. I know folks who've done them and who are board eligible, and have also seen listings that likely would not meet criteria for board certification. And if at all possible, working in the practice of a boarded neuropsychologist certainly wouldn't hurt.
 
The lack of formal and consistent didactic training would one of my biggest concerns w. a PP training option. I'm not saying it can't be done, but that'd be the elephant in the room for me. I'd probably also wonder about variety of cases and opportunities for other learning experiences as PP can be pretty isolating.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
The lack of formal and consistent didactic training would one of my biggest concerns w. a PP training option. I'm not saying it can't be done, but that'd be the elephant in the room for me. I'd probably also wonder about variety of cases and opportunities for other learning experiences as PP can be pretty isolating.
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Those are generally my biggest concerns about PP fellowships as well. Howeve,r if I personally had to choose between a fellowship at a private practice or no fellowship at all, I'd definitely go with the former, and would just look to supplement my training wherever and however possible.
 
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AcronymAllergy said:
Those are generally my biggest concerns about PP fellowships as well. Howeve,r if I personally had to choose between a fellowship at a private practice or no fellowship at all, I'd definitely go with the former, and would just look to supplement my training wherever and however possible.
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I think it depends where a person wants to practice after fellowship. AMCs will expect applicants to have completed a formal fellowship, so that will be a harder call if the OP is set on working in that setting. The vast majority of neuropsychologists aren't at AMCs, though it can be a stop on the way to private practice.

Unlike APA-acred. internship training, I think there is room for a person to train elsewhere and work their way up through a local hospital, etc. Boarding would probably bridge that gap, though I'm not sure how stringent the requirements are to quality for boarding if a person didn't train at a recognized fellowship training program.
 
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It's interesting that contacting ABPP came up. I had the same thought and just received a response today outlining what I specifically need to look for in terms of An informal (PP) fellowship. It helped ease my trepidation, but there remains an element of risk especially with a non-board certified neuropsychologist.

I think future employment is a key factor too. Although not necessarily AMCs, I do want to work in a hospital and/or medical setting.

Honestly, I am torn between the decision of to have a fellowship or wait out another year. Possibly work, get licensed, and try the match again. It will be probably as competitive or maybe even more so. Not sure if this will necessarily be the best route to take.

Thank you for all the input, everyone :) Being the only intern with a Neuro emphasis at my site, this has been quite a solitary journey.
 
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Don't give up applying as frequently openings happen and many have a rotating or floating start date. Less desirable places frequently have slots go unfilled. It seems that Jackson Medical Center and other places are always posting openings on the postdoc listserv. The problem with the formal two year is they normally are lower salary then with a PP Neuropsychologist. I opted for doing two years with PP neuropsychologist. The key is finding a PP who consults with medical and psychiatric centers so you have options of sitting in grand rounds and additional didactics.

Remember you can apply for early entry ABPP-CN and submit materials for review during your postdoctoral training.
 
It sounds like the PP postdoc you had fulfills a number of the criteria outlined by ABCN. May I ask how you ended up doing a PP postdoc? I am curious if there is an avenue I may have overlooked in my search.
 
My predoctoral supervisor knew a PP neuropsych and this is how we connected. Initially he was not interested but I kept in contact and we were able to develop my postdoc with the hospitals he consults with and I have worked doing the work similar to prior NP techs he has employed.

Most NP in PP have one or two NP techs.

Many NP PP are uninterested in supervising as they are very busy and these aren't billable hours. Therefore, you have to sell yourself to increase your chances.
 
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Was it difficult to develop a consultation relationship with hospitals as part of your PP postdoc?

I have noticed that many NP PP are uninterested in supervising. I am unsure if this is a region specific issue, but it is definitely accurate in my area. Selling myself is slowly becoming a new skill I am developing :laugh:
 
SoCloseYetSoFarAway said:
Was it difficult to develop a consultation relationship with hospitals as part of your PP postdoc?

I have noticed that many NP PP are uninterested in supervising. I am unsure if this is a region specific issue, but it is definitely accurate in my area. Selling myself is slowly becoming a new skill I am developing :laugh:
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If I was in PP, I probably wouldn't do it. You can't bill the same, depending on state laws, so you're pretty much an over-educated psychometrist in this instance. It's a time and money sink in many cases. Where I'm at, supervision is built into my schedule, so I don't lose productivity doing it.
 
It's a hard sell most places because of the "lost" billing time. One of the reasons the VA and AMCs are popular trainings option for psychologists (and neuropsychologists) has everything to do w. them having the resources to support revenue negative position.
 
Makes sense. It makes for a difficult climb for someone in my position, and I truly understand that, at the end of the day, I will be an expense.

I would be curious how neuropsychologists in PP eventually decide to take a postdoc. What was the deciding factor that outweighed the economics?
 
One problem is that it's a two-year commitment for one-hour of face-to-face supervision per week. Some of the contracts with the Hospitals and other medical agencies are written indicating NT or postdocs will be doing the Evals under supervision. Most of the Evals I do are Medicaid billing and he does not make much money from them but he does receive referrals from these agencies for insurance or self pay so there is a ripple effect and he does the higher paying Evals.

I was in a similar point two-years ago and I was able to work out supervision with him and other agencies who pay him $150 per hour for my supervision and I receive salary from the other agency and my supervisor pays me for doing his Medicaid evaluations.

It is not the best option but there are limited formal neuropsych postdocs every year. What area are you looking at as Scott & White at Bryan, Texas recently had an add for psychology postdoc.
 
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If you can hold out for a formal postdoc, with didactics, I'd go with that. Definitely a leg up when it comes to jobs and later on board cert. As for Scott & White, I know they are hiring currently for a faculty neuropsych, but I don't know if the fellow spot is open. If it is, it's a good spot, I know one of the faculty there, they've made a ton of very positive changes in recent years.
 
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Sorry, SW is a one year psychology Postdoc recently re advertised to increase the applicant pool. There is a PP advertising in OKC for a postdoc pediatric neuropsych fellow and it is listed on the APA career website.
 
UW has a sports psychology fellowship that could have a neuropsychology emphasis. This sounds like a great fellowship and they indicate partnering with other practitioners for neuropsych emphasis.
 
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You could apply to the SW psych postdoc and do your postdoc and get licensed while reapplying for the 2 year clinical neuropsych postdoc next round.
 
OneNeuroDoctor said:
You could apply to the SW psych postdoc and do your postdoc and get licensed while reapplying for the 2 year clinical neuropsych postdoc next round.
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S&W seems like a great place, like WisNeuro mentioned. However, before applying for the one-year postdoc, I'd be sure to check with them that you'd actually still then be eligible for the two-year neuro postdoc. And beyond that, the downside would be that particularly if it's in a different area of emphasis/practice, the OP would essentially then be taking that spot away from someone who would really want and use that training.

I'm in agreement with the idea of possibly working for a year and then re-applying for a formal fellowship next year, if that's a realistic option for you.
 
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I did see the S&W postdoc recently. It has crossed my mind to apply especially since I have a background in health psychology. It is a good point to consider that applying for that position may potentially take a spot away from someone. On the other hand, one can argue that increasing my exposure to different medical issues can help broaden my neuro training. Interestingly enough, I actually interviewed with S&W at INS. I liked what they had to offer, and the faculty members were friendly and nice.

@OneNeuroDoctor I will check out UW. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. :) Also, to answer your question, I do not have any geographical limitation.

The employment route is something that is looming for me as I already have 2 job opportunities offered to me in case I decide to go that direction. They are both non-neuro so I am still a bit unsure regarding how they would increase my chances for a formal fellowship next year.
 
SoCloseYetSoFarAway said:
I did see the S&W postdoc recently. It has crossed my mind to apply especially since I have a background in health psychology. It is a good point to consider that applying for that position may potentially take a spot away from someone. On the other hand, one can argue that increasing my exposure to different medical issues can help broaden my neuro training. Interestingly enough, I actually interviewed with S&W at INS. I liked what they had to offer, and the faculty members were friendly and nice.

@OneNeuroDoctor I will check out UW. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. :) Also, to answer your question, I do not have any geographical limitation.

The employment route is something that is looming for me as I already have 2 job opportunities offered to me in case I decide to go that direction. They are both non-neuro so I am still a bit unsure regarding how they would increase my chances for a formal fellowship next year.
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Have you been able to elicit any feedback from sites where you interviewed to see what might've made you more competitive?
 
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Just got an email that the North TX VA Health Care System is recruiting for a two-year neuropscyh fellow. It's an APPCN-member program, so it adheres to Div 40/Houston Conference guidelines. And it's at a VA, so the pay is on the higher end as far as postdocs go. Cut-off date is 05/30 and start date is 08/24.
 
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I also got an email and was just about to PM the OP about it! Sounds like a great opportunity.
 
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@AcronymAllergy and @cara susanna : Thank you for passing the info :) This posting was such a pleasant surprise :claps:

With regard to feedback, I have been contemplating contacting the sites I interviewed with and ask for their input. Is this fairly common practice? How is it commonly viewed? Someone suggested to me that it may be interpreted as someone lacking confidence?
 
SoCloseYetSoFarAway said:
@AcronymAllergy and @cara susanna : Thank you for passing the info :) This posting was such a pleasant surprise :claps:

With regard to feedback, I have been contemplating contacting the sites I interviewed with and ask for their input. Is this fairly common practice? How is it commonly viewed? Someone suggested to me that it may be interpreted as someone lacking confidence?
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I've personally not heard of it as reflecting a lack of confidence; it's fairly common practice as far as I know, and the TD of my own postdoc was contacted a few times while I was there with similar questions that were never received negatively.
 
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The Counseling Center in Nashua, NH just send an add for psychologist-Neuropsychologist and they would accept a postdoctoral trainee.
 
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Postdoc at Albert Einstein School of Medicine with focus on geriatric Neuropsychology just advertised with start date in July.
 
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@AcronymAllergy That is good to hear. I did not think it would be, but the psychologist I spoke with seem to view it through a confidence lens. I thought maybe there was something I was not privy too as a student.

@OneNeuroDoctor Thanks for the posts! I am glad there are more and more spots showing up on listservs.
 
This is a bit off of the beaten path, OP, but how would you feel about doing a pure research fellowship and then applying for clinical ones? I'm thinking something like UMich's ARRT program: http://pmr.med.umich.edu/education-...nced-rehabilitation-research-training-program

Very, very well-regarded program and school, both in rehab/neuro and general, and it could give you a very nice bump in publications and grant writing experience.
 
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That is a good suggestion, @futureapppsy2. In hindsight, it may have been a good idea for me to diversify my sites. I will check out the link you posted. Thanks! :)
 
Hi Everyone!

Thank you for the wonderful suggestions and guidance. This forum is such a great resource!

On that note, I do want to share my good news. I was recently offered a position, and it is a wonderful feeling. It has everything that I am looking for in a training site. I am excited to start, and it feels right for me to be there. Things happen for a reason ;)
 
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Good to here.. Many of the postdoctoral neuropsych positions open up and/or don't get filled. Some have strict requirements and won't select someone to just have the slot filled and it goes unfilled until the next year.
 
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SoCloseYetSoFarAway said:
Hi Everyone!

Thank you for the wonderful suggestions and guidance. This forum is such a great resource!

On that note, I do want to share my good news. I was recently offered a position, and it is a wonderful feeling. It has everything that I am looking for in a training site. I am excited to start, and it feels right for me to be there. Things happen for a reason ;)
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Thanks for updating us because I was wondering about you! Congrats :)
 
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