The 35+ Threshold?

[lmn]

With a 30, unless your first EC listed is olympic gold medalist or former professional athlete or 16 first-author publications or something crazy like that, its getting tossed after about 15 seconds

I think you'd be surprised at the range of scores at even top schools, especially ones that really work hard to get a diverse and well rounded class.

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[Cyberdyne 101]

You get some constancy from having the same prereqs in the GPA, and you can compare applicants to others from the same institution to help with differences in grading/rigor/whatever. Ideally you'd standardize the coursework in a similar way to the AP system in high schools and then you can skip the per-college adjustments. Even if you did have to deal with comparing wildly variable GPAs, they're already doing exactly that and it's the lesser of two evils compared to the MCAT. A brief, shallow, practice dependent, one or two step multiple-freakin-choice exam is a pretty terrible thing to weight equally with years of much more in-depth and challenging problem solving. I wouldn't be affected by dialing up the GPA weight but this is what I think would be a better measure of ability, not the setup best for me or premeds like me.



The adcoms on here have repeatedly stated that they care about the grade not the prof/school; I don't much agree with that view but they already compare GPAs as a major metric as if they were standardized, so I'm just suggesting weighting it more. I'm not complaining about fairness, it's actually going to help me a lot that med schools care so much about this stupid test. I just like my little pipe dreams about tweaking the system to what I think really demonstrates ability as a student.

Let's say you were the admissions dean at a top school (Stanford, Hopkins, Penn, Vanderbilt, etc), would you be ok with a median MCAT that's <35 for your entering class? And I'm not implying that classes with a >35 median MCAT are better-- I just want to hear your opinion.

 

[efle]

Let's say you were the admissions dean at a top school (Stanford, Hopkins, Penn, Vanderbilt, etc), would you be ok with a median MCAT that's <35 for your entering class? And I'm not implying that classes with a >35 median MCAT are better-- I just want to hear your opinion.

Hahah you'd make someone over at Vandy squeal with delight listing them along with those others

It depends what I'm reading out of the MCAT. If I'm just aiming for MCATs that give me faith the acceptees can handle the academics, then I'm fine with a 34 median, sure. If I'm instead trying to get a class that will be standouts on the step exams, then I'd want the 36+ median.

 

[johnnytest]

I don't have any experience that qualifies me to make any claims about admissions, I'm just speculating (based on whatever data exists online, and MDApps). But I'm just trying to make sense of it. If there are 8,000 applicants for 500 interview spots, and your MCAT is not that great, what's going to make an adcom pick your app out of a pile, unless you have amazing ECs? When I'm sure there are thousands of applicants with way better numbers, and similar research/shadowing/volunteering/leadership. I know that nothing is impossible in admissions, but it is just highly unlikely is all I'm saying. There's always underdog stories about people getting in to schools way out of their league numbers wise, but those must be one in a thousand?

@johnnytest that's awesome, did you have really impressive ECs?

Not so much that they were out-of-this world impressive but I think they were unique and they fit in very well with the school's mission. Plus, during my gap year I was very productive and the update letter I provided them could have easily been 5 more activity entries in my AMCAS application.

I don't think anyone can answer what in particular about a certain applicant with lower stats merits an acceptance whereas the higher stats applicant does not. Post-II it's most likely not the GPA/MCAT factor. In addition to ECs, I think other factors such as URM, their story, and their fit with the school play a role. It's a difficult position to be in because for an average applicant who aspires to attend top 20 there is no way of knowing how many reach schools to apply for without breaking the bank. You may create a reach list supported with great rationale and considering various factors that play to your strengths but you just don't know if those are the same factors the school will use to assess your app. I do agree that the chances are probably one in a thousand for low-stat apps, which is why I'm reminded of how lucky and blessed I am.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Hahah you'd make someone over at Vandy squeal with delight listing them along with those others

It depends what I'm reading out of the MCAT. If I'm just aiming for MCATs that give me faith the acceptees can handle the academics, then I'm fine with a 34 median, sure. If I'm instead trying to get a class that will be standouts on the step exams, then I'd want the 36+ median.

Plz bro, Vandy is easily one of the best schools outside of California.

I wonder if high step scores are the main reason for selecting a class with a super high median MCAT (i.e. 36+)

 

[efle]

Plz bro, Vandy is easily one of the best schools outside of California.

I wonder if high step scores are the main reason for selecting a class with a super high median MCAT (i.e. 36+)

Agreed, ill be applying there fosho

I at least know this is true for wustl

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I at least know this is true for wustl

Is it really? I don't think we'll ever get reliable data on average step scores (not like it matters much anyway), so I guess it's a pointless inquiry.

Although, I wonder if schools like wustl and penn have such high median MCATs as a way to solidify their prestige or if it's really more about step scores.

 

[medic86]

Is it really? I don't think we'll ever get reliable data on average step scores (not like it matters much anyway), so I guess it's a pointless inquiry.

Although, I wonder if schools like wustl and penn have such high median MCATs as a way to solidify their prestige or if it's really more about step scores.

Probably a little of both.

 

[deleted577188]

With a 30, unless your first EC listed is olympic gold medalist or former professional athlete or 16 first-author publications or something crazy like that, its getting tossed after about 15 seconds

"PRE-MEDICAL"

 

[Lucca]

Hahah you'd make someone over at Vandy squeal with delight listing them along with those others

It depends what I'm reading out of the MCAT. If I'm just aiming for MCATs that give me faith the acceptees can handle the academics, then I'm fine with a 34 median, sure. If I'm instead trying to get a class that will be standouts on the step exams, then I'd want the 36+ median.

speculation incoming.

I think there's more truth to what elfe is saying here than most adcoms would readily admit. However, at most schools I fully expect the score creep to be an artifact of competition and the fact that most pre-med applications look very similar and are composed of very similar activities as well. It is a very special type of school that can have the luxury of pursuing both missions at once. I also expect that most applications are shapeless amalgams of "pre-medical" type activities with one or no activities dominating the pack with no real continuity or ability to express a complete narrative about an applicant outside of the fact that they want to go to medical school.

My theory: Applicants are screened if the school screens and then each app gets a qualification. This might be their LizzyM, a school-specific numbering system or quality system (1, 2, 3 or meh, good, excellent) and then second readers are in charge of picking out the special bits or teasing out potential from the "good" and "meh" applications and then interviews are handed out. We've known for a while that some ivies do something similar by putting a number on your app and then screening for numbers and then for app content for undergrad.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Plot twist, @efle is really the dean at Wash U med.

 

[NeuResurgens]

34 is agood if you have good Clinicals and ECs.

 

[Willy38]

With a 30, unless your first EC listed is olympic gold medalist or former professional athlete or 16 first-author publications or something crazy like that, its getting tossed after about 15 seconds

I have one of those EC's listed and a 38 MCAT and have been rejected at a ton of places without interview invitations. IMO, med school admissions is much more holistic than people on sdn think. MCAT just serves as a standardized metric to assess whether or not you can handle the academic rigor of med school. Splitting hairs becomes pointless eventually.

 

[JPSmyth]

I have one of those EC's listed and a 38 MCAT and have been rejected at a ton of places without interview invitations. IMO, med school admissions is much more holistic than people on sdn think. MCAT just serves as a standardized metric to assess whether or not you can handle the academic rigor of med school. Splitting hairs becomes pointless eventually.

how holistic can it really be though? at some point it has to come down to chance I would imagine. So many applicants have very similar clinical volunteering, research, shadowing, non-clinical volunteering, leadership, etc. How else would they sift through 10,000 applications to interview 500 if it weren't for splitting hairs?

 

[Willy38]

how holistic can it really be though? at some point it has to come down to chance I would imagine. So many applicants have very similar clinical volunteering, research, shadowing, non-clinical volunteering, leadership, etc. How else would they sift through 10,000 applications to interview 500 if it weren't for splitting hairs?

Most likely how your particular application is received by your initial reviewer. For example, those who are more focused on research and don't quite understand the commitment of D1 and professional athletics or who aren't fans themselves are less likely to be impressed by what I've done. They may also be more likely to pass on me because I have lackluster involvement in other areas due to the time I spent pursuing sports. The same could be true of any other applicant with a polarizing profile.

I think a lot of it has to do with what you've done and how artfully you can convey those activities and the personal progress and growth that has resulted from them. IMO, the key is to play up your individuality. You may have similar experiences to most pre-meds and that's ok but only you can describe how they have personally shaped you, contributed to who you are as a person, and why you want to spend your life serving others through medicine. Be honest, sincere, and passionate and the rest will take care of itself.

Edit: Although I have been rejected by many, I have also been accepted to some elite schools as well. At the end of the day, a lot of it can come down to chance but if you follow the prescribed advice above (sincerity, honesty, and passion) you will end up where you are supposed to be. And who would want to be anywhere else !