The Mystique of Harvard

[Einsteinemc2]

Hey all,
I've done some searching around the forum and dug up a lot of old threads concerning Harvard, comparing it to other schools, yadayadayada... the consensus seems to be that the school is mainly ranked so high because of its numerous hospital affiliations (thus, NIH money) and because of its (somewhat undeserved?) reuptation.

Indeed, head to head, most say that the program (PBL based) is not that great, and that a better education could be attained somewhere else.

So, I question then whether Harvard is still thought so highly of because of its almost mythical status, or because they actually turn out amazing doctors. While well known docs have graduated from HMS, they probably would have been great docs/researchers anyway. So, again, why Harvard?

I guess I don't get it.

All that said, if I were to get in (not likely), I would seriously consider going. So, do most people go because of the reputation factor (everybody knows Harvard), or because one can actually obtain a top-notch education. Can anybody shed more light on this?

Thanks,
E=mc^2

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[solitude]

You can obtain a top-notch education at many of the top-ranked schools. I will probably get flamed for saying this, but some schools are undeniably much better than others. Harvard is one of those. But it isn't the only one. A lot of people choose it for the prestige, but some would argue that in the medical community Hopkins has more prestige, while Harvard is better-known to the layperson.

If you are choosing between Harvard and Hopkins, WashU, Duke, etc. you can't really go wrong--the quality of education will be essentially the same. The exception would be in research i.e. MSTP: there are so many more researchers at Harvard (so many more faculty members and labs) that there is much more choice in PI's. With that said, it only takes one good faculty mentor to get a PhD, and you will find one with top-notch research at any of the top-notch schools (and some, although fewer, at lower-ranked schools).

If you're choosing between Harvard and podunk state, you will get a better education from Harvard. You will also get better residencies. Let the flaming begin, but these are facts as far as I'm concerned.

Gist: If you're choosing between top schools, the education at Harvard isn't really any different (may be worse?). But it is a better education than at so-called "lower tier schools". Certainly consider going if you get the chance, but don't rule out other top schools just because they aren't Harvard.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

You can obtain a top-notch education at many of the top-ranked schools. I will probably get flamed for saying this, but some schools are undeniably much better than others. Harvard is one of those. But it isn't the only one. A lot of people choose it for the prestige, but some would argue that in the medical community Hopkins has more prestige, while Harvard is better-known to the layperson.

If you are choosing between Harvard and Hopkins, WashU, Duke, etc. you can't really go wrong--the quality of education will be essentially the same. The exception would be in research i.e. MSTP: there are so many more researchers at Harvard (so many more faculty members and labs) that there is much more choice in PI's. With that said, it only takes one good faculty mentor to get a PhD, and you will find one with top-notch research at any of the top-notch schools (and some, although fewer, at lower-ranked schools).

If you're choosing between Harvard and podunk state, you will get a better education from Harvard. You will also get better residencies. Let the flaming begin, but these are facts as far as I'm concerned.

Gist: If you're choosing between top schools, the education at Harvard isn't really any different (may be worse?). But it is a better education than at so-called "lower tier schools". Certainly consider going if you get the chance, but don't rule out other top schools just because they aren't Harvard.

I'd just like to add that Harvard's rep attracts the top students in the country so many of your classmates will be the future leaders in medicine. Your peers have a lot of influence on your med school experience, so attending classes with the best and the brightest would definitely be a draw.

 

[shantster]

Hey all,
I've done some searching around the forum and dug up a lot of old threads concerning Harvard, comparing it to other schools, yadayadayada... the consensus seems to be that the school is mainly ranked so high because of its numerous hospital affiliations (thus, NIH money) and because of its (somewhat undeserved?) reuptation.

Indeed, head to head, most say that the program (PBL based) is not that great, and that a better education could be attained somewhere else.

So, I question then whether Harvard is still thought so highly of because of its almost mythical status, or because they actually turn out amazing doctors. While well known docs have graduated from HMS, they probably would have been great docs/researchers anyway. So, again, why Harvard?

I guess I don't get it.

All that said, if I were to get in (not likely), I would seriously consider going. So, do most people go because of the reputation factor (everybody knows Harvard), or because one can actually obtain a top-notch education. Can anybody shed more light on this?

Thanks,
E=mc^2

They have an amazing array of hospitals. I was at MIT for the summer and sometimes had to go to Harvard Med for some of our research and so my mentor took me on a brief walking tour out there. The New Research Building is gorgeous. I thought that MIT had great labs, but I was shocked when I was at Harvard at how nice they were. All of their hospitals are research hospitals too. The feeling that I got from that place though was that people mostly go there and then follow a more research oriented career rather than a clinical career, though my perception could be skewed because I was in the lab. If you are planning on doing an MD/PhD, they have a wonderful collaboration with MIT, where you get your PhD, which could have some additional draw to it.

That all said, I won't be applying there since I won't have the math credit (they won't take my AP credits and everywhere else will) and even then, I don't think I would like the PBL style too much. My feeling is that if I'm paying that much to go to school that I should be taught by lecturers and only have PBL on the side.

 

[Faust]

It is not that Harvard turns out great doctors, but that great people go to Harvard. Harvard just has a lot of resources of which people can use to cultivate and refine their talents.

The myth is the idea that medical schools make people or great physicians. It is the people that give Schools their reputation. It is that constant drive, curiousity, determination, and the will to become great that exists within the human being that leads one to become a great doctor. The more resources the school has the easier it is to achieve that greatness, but then again, people taper off once they get into a school like harvard, and then just become ordinary middle class workers.

Faust

 

[slickb12]

While not necessarily high on the priority list, the resources are unbelievable. The facilities are beautiful (marble everywhere), the technology is great (massive plasma TVs in every tutorial, tons of computers all over the center), and the software for the curriculum is insane. You can search within video lectures, do histology from home, etc...

 

[Orth2006]

You can obtain a top-notch education at many of the top-ranked schools. I will probably get flamed for saying this, but some schools are undeniably much better than others. Harvard is one of those. But it isn't the only one. A lot of people choose it for the prestige, but some would argue that in the medical community Hopkins has more prestige, while Harvard is better-known to the layperson.

If you are choosing between Harvard and Hopkins, WashU, Duke, etc. you can't really go wrong--the quality of education will be essentially the same. The exception would be in research i.e. MSTP: there are so many more researchers at Harvard (so many more faculty members and labs) that there is much more choice in PI's. With that said, it only takes one good faculty mentor to get a PhD, and you will find one with top-notch research at any of the top-notch schools (and some, although fewer, at lower-ranked schools).

If you're choosing between Harvard and podunk state, you will get a better education from Harvard. You will also get better residencies. Let the flaming begin, but these are facts as far as I'm concerned.

Gist: If you're choosing between top schools, the education at Harvard isn't really any different (may be worse?). But it is a better education than at so-called "lower tier schools". Certainly consider going if you get the chance, but don't rule out other top schools just because they aren't Harvard.

This is not a flame as you as very much entitled to your opinion. However Im not sure I total agree with some of it.

First I do like harvard and would attend if given admission.

But the fact is that medical schools in the US are all on or about the same level since they are all accredited by the same board (LCME or something). Unlike Law school or Business school the disparities between medical schools is very minimal. Take University of Arizona for instance, they are not as endowed as harvard but there is no place you will go in the medical community with an MD from UofA and you will be looked down upon. You may even get a residency before a Harvard person. Now if you are talking Law school or business school then yes definitely Harvard is it. Further more the amount of funding such schools get does not necessarily go into the training of students. Most of the money if not all go into research that the school/faculty NOT the students maybe directly involved in. Also just a fraction of medical students do MSTP or research. Harvard maybe great in research but what is their clinical training like? It is not necessarily any better than the so-called low-tier schools.

This is not to talk bad about Harvard but just to say that anybody who chooses it and thinks they are getting a better medical education than a medical school ranked much lower may be very misinformed. Remeber whether or not a school is ranked as top-notch or low tier is based on research money and a bunch of other narrow data like MCAT score etc, and not on quality of education.

I will be as proud if I got accepted to podunk state as I will if I got accepted to harvard. But thats just me

Cheers

 

[Orth2006]

I'd just like to add that Harvard's rep attracts the top students in the country so many of your classmates will be the future leaders in medicine. Your peers have a lot of influence on your med school experience, so attending classes with the best and the brightest would definitely be a draw.

Raw scores aside. I think anyone who gets accepted to any medical school is a top-student. Sure there will be some who are much more skillfull and more brilliant but that in itself does not confer the status of leadership. Leadership in any field is earned. Harvard attracts students who have higher average stats but does that mean that they will be better doctors than those in other so-called lower schools? So the the "best and the brightest" going in may not be the "best and the brightest" coming out. Its the output that counts.

 

[little_late_MD]

Harvard is one of the oldest schools in the country.
Being one of the first universities means that it turned out some of the countries first leaders.
People want to be like those at the top, so they went to Harvard.
Because Harvard had a reputation for turning out the best (b/c out of necessity many of the best went there for their education) more people who would eventually turn out to be among the elite went there.
The alumni donated a lot of money to Harvard, which is why it has the largest endowment of any university in the country. The money allowed them to solidfy their rank as the top school in the country, for just about anything.
This centuries old reputation keeps this positive feedback loop going.

Quite frankly, Harvard could turn out a generation of mush-headed cretons, and it's reputation wouldn't be damaged. It has been so associated in people's minds with everything that is right about higher-education that it wouldn't matter.

Now, just because they have the nicest labs, a direct route to the best residencies in the country, and more of the world's top researchers than any other university in the country are they the best med school in this country? I don't know. Does any of that stuff make you a better physician? Does it help you relate to your patients better? Does it help you retain the encylopedic knowledge required to properly diagnose any number of illnesses? I would say not. However, I'm sure there are thousands of people who would disagree.

 

[Wahina]

Going to Harvard is important because of signalling. You can prove you are smart if you go to podunk state by acing the boards and being aoa. But if you are at Harvard, the name alone does a lot of the work for you.