Therapy for Psychologists-to-Be

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athenax

athenax

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I hope this isn't repetitive, I tried searching for this a couple different ways but nothing came up. If there was some discussion on this before just direct me to the right spot so I'm not cluttering up the forum!

So -- I'm about to start a Master's with the goal of eventually going into a doctorate... I like the idea of getting a "taste" for therapy and exploring any issues I have. What are your ideas on this and do you have any suggestions for how to go about finding a therapist? Should I wait until I actually get into my PhD program and learn about therapy?

I'm assuming I would probably opt for a psychotherapist as I don't have any glaringly huge problems that could be fixed by cognitive-behavioral therapy, but I am very interested in psychotherapy itself as well.

Obviously, a big issue is that I'm a student, and don't have a lot of money -- is it impossible to find a good therapist for an affordable rate?

Thanks in advance!
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Wait, what do you mean by psychotherapist? Psychodynamic? Because I've heard that kind of therapy can take years and years.
 
Yea truthfully I'm surprised this is not more emphasized or even required especially for those who want to be full time clinicians. I would think it's very important to understand your own mind and your own defenses/biases etc before you can even begin to work with someone else's. I've been in therapy on and off but am currently in therapy and my therapist is kind of eclectic which i've noticed from looking most of them tend to be at least in my area. Like the last person psychodynamic can tend to last very long so what therapy type to look for depends both on your financial situation, whether it's a long term vs short term issue and what type of theoretical orientation is best suited to handle what you are going there for although as I said before I think psychologists should go to their own therapy even if there is nothing particularly wrong with or bothering them just to see what the process is like from the other end of it as well as to develop better self awareness.
 
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I think it's a very good idea for people who are going to be therapists to have been in therapy. I know there's data indicating that trainers feel this way too, but I'm unaware of any data that it produces better clinicians. Anecdotally, the clinical-minded folk in my program who have never been in therapy seem to me to leak all over the place and be incapable of doing their own work, but I'm sure that isn't going to be the case for everyone.

Since psych grad students obviously can't use the services within their own training sites, many programs maintain lists of community clinicians who will offer up reduced-fee service to psych grad students (the list where I am actually includes some people who will very kindly do a few sessions for free).
 
To be honest, while I think that therapy has value even in the absence of "glaringly huge problems" or psychopathology, I'm not sure that this is the best use of your money or a therapist's time. If you'd like to know more about what therapists do, read about it! (There are a lot of good books recommended on the sticky-ed thread at the top of the forum). If you do have a specific (or possibly even a general) personal concern you'd like to address through therapy, though, then by all means go ahead! You mention you're currently a student? You may want to look into counselling services at your university.

Edited: Oops! I just noticed that you mentioned you're starting a grad program; I thought you were currently an undergrad. In that case, counselling services will likely not be appropriate for you if it's in any way associated with your department.I like JockNerd's advice.
 
I'm probably going to try to get some counseling since recently I had something happen that could bring up huuuuge counter-transference issues.
 
Just be careful if your motivation is career-related. I entered therapy my senior year in college after a friend's death and about half-way through it turned into my weekly career-advice session. Not going to lie, my therapist had lots of good advice on getting into grad programs, but it was hardly the purpose of therapy (and quite expensive for that kind of service :)).
 
I'm a big supporter of clinicians completing their own therapy, though many never give themselves an opportunity in session. I think foregoing therapy not only opens up more counter-transference issues, but it also limits the ability for more insight. Just my 2 cents.
 
athenax said:
I'm assuming I would probably opt for a psychotherapist as I don't have any glaringly huge problems that could be fixed by cognitive-behavioral therapy (although that's probably what I'll be trained in), but I am very interested in psychotherapy itself as well (perhaps as a later goal in my education).
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I just wanted to point out that CBT isn't just for "glaringly huge problems". The techniques can also be very effective for the high functioning, worried well population.

In addition, like Cara Susanna mentioned, it's unclear what you mean by your use of the term psychotherapist. CBT practitioners are psychotherapists, as are those who practice psychodynamic therapy, psychoanalytic therapy, client-centered therapy, etc.
 
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Wildcat06 said:
Just be careful if your motivation is career-related. I entered therapy my senior year in college after a friend's death and about half-way through it turned into my weekly career-advice session. Not going to lie, my therapist had lots of good advice on getting into grad programs, but it was hardly the purpose of therapy (and quite expensive for that kind of service :)).
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Yea I've dealt with the same issue, I started my therapy hoping to talk about a deep personal issue and instead it's become the how I am going to get into a PhD show? I really need to stop that somehow although It's kind of hard to pass up on getting advice on how to get where you want to get from someone who's in the position you want to be in eventually and I do think they could be helpful with tips on stuff like personal statements/interviews etc but overall therapy needs to be more about personal issues or yea like you said i'm paying all this money for stuff I could probably look up on the internet.
 
I think part of it depends on what you are looking for, personally I'm looking for long-term analytic work..which I believe will benefit myself as well as the pts I work with on a daily basis. It isn't for everyone, but I think we as clinicians should at least experience some therapy.
 
Also I've noticed something I do in therapy which I'm not sure I should be doing is I kind of see what I like about how they approach stuff and what I don't like so it will give me some ideas of what type of therapist i should be in the longrun. I realize this may be bad though because we are all different so an approach that a therapist may have taken to a problem that I liked/or didn't like may be different for someone else.
 
GradStudent87 said:
Also I've noticed something I do in therapy which I'm not sure I should be doing is I kind of see what I like about how they approach stuff and what I don't like so it will give me some ideas of what type of therapist i should be in the longrun. I realize this may be bad though because we are all different so an approach that a therapist may have taken to a problem that I liked/or didn't like may be different for someone else.
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These kind of questions are better directed towards a supervisor or mentor, as personal therapy really shouldn't be about honing professional skills. Some people may seek therapy about their interactions in therapy (typically counter-transference issues), but not on the nuts and bolts things, as it would create a dual relationship with your therapist. It is one thing to acknowledge an approach preference, but another to use your therapy time for that.
 
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GradStudent87 said:
Yea I've dealt with the same issue, I started my therapy hoping to talk about a deep personal issue and instead it's become the how I am going to get into a PhD show? I really need to stop that somehow although It's kind of hard to pass up on getting advice on how to get where you want to get from someone who's in the position you want to be in eventually and I do think they could be helpful with tips on stuff like personal statements/interviews etc but overall therapy needs to be more about personal issues or yea like you said i'm paying all this money for stuff I could probably look up on the internet.
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In our defense, EVERYONE should get therapy during/after the application process :laugh:
 
Just be careful if your motivation is career-related. I entered therapy my senior year in college after a friend's death and about half-way through it turned into my weekly career-advice session. Not going to lie, my therapist had lots of good advice on getting into grad programs, but it was hardly the purpose of therapy (and quite expensive for that kind of service :)).
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I've often thought if I went into therapy at this point, I would manage to turn it into a combination of career/application advice and discussions of psychopathology as seen on Intervention and House. :) (Condolences for your loss, by the way. :( )
 
futureapppsy2 said:
I've often thought if I went into therapy at this point, I would manage to turn it into a combination of career/application advice and discussions of psychopathology as seen on Intervention and House. :) (Condolences for your loss, by the way. :( )
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Yea it is very hard to not ask for career advice in therapy, but im trying to make a new rule, first 10-15 minutes a session can be about current stresses/possibly grad school related stuff if it's really stressing me out that week and the rest is about the more personal issues i really came to talk about. Idk if this will work well but i'll give it a try i guess.
 
GradStudent87 said:
Yea it is very hard to not ask for career advice in therapy, but im trying to make a new rule, first 10-15 minutes a session can be about current stresses/possibly grad school related stuff if it's really stressing me out that week and the rest is about the more personal issues i really came to talk about. Idk if this will work well but i'll give it a try i guess.
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Opening with talking about the grad school stuff and letting your therapist feel like an expert is a good way of getting you both to collude to never talk about the personal stuff. :)
 
JockNerd said:
Opening with talking about the grad school stuff and letting your therapist feel like an expert is a good way of getting you both to collude to never talk about the personal stuff. :)
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I'll take that as my plan is a poor one but I really don't know how to balance it because sometimes I am really stressed out about school related stuff and need someone to talk/vent to about it but also at the same time make sure I do not spend the whole session babbling on about it so I can get to more personal issues.
 
GradStudent87 said:
I'll take that as my plan is a poor one but I really don't know how to balance it because sometimes I am really stressed out about school related stuff and need someone to talk/vent to about it but also at the same time make sure I do not spend the whole session babbling on about it so I can get to more personal issues.
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The intersection between your stress about school and how it is effecting you can be a personal issue, as we do not fail to be people in school....though it sometimes feels like it. :D
 
If you have to discuss it, I'd at least try to do it at the end so you can't get side-tracked and spend an hour on it.

Tell your therapist the plan too, so they can help structure the session to make sure there is time. Provided they are okay with giving career advice that is - I (and I think most therapists) would probably terminate if that was becoming a focal point with a client.

Edit: I agree with T4C that it CAN be a significant personal issue, but if its "Oh, they have a good program. Have you looked at school z?", that's very different from "I can't sleep, I just stay up all night worrying about whether or not I'll get into a program" ;) The latter is pathology. The former means its time for me to direct them to their academic advisor and show them the door.
 
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I know in the past that people actually had to go through their own therapy before becoming a therapist themselves. i don't think that's the case anymore, however. That's a good rule they should have kept, in my opinion. It always good to self-discover before you try and help others do just that. :)
 
Ollie123 said:
If you have to discuss it, I'd at least try to do it at the end so you can't get side-tracked and spend an hour on it.

Tell your therapist the plan too, so they can help structure the session to make sure there is time. Provided they are okay with giving career advice that is - I (and I think most therapists) would probably terminate if that was becoming a focal point with a client.

Edit: I agree with T4C that it CAN be a significant personal issue, but if its "Oh, they have a good program. Have you looked at school z?", that's very different from "I can't sleep, I just stay up all night worrying about whether or not I'll get into a program" ;) The latter is pathology. The former means its time for me to direct them to their academic advisor and show them the door.
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Yea i more so meant by academic stress talking about how stressed I am about applications or volunteer work or in general how it's making me feel, not really asking for specific advice on what school to attend to etc i would never really ask for advice on that kind of decision anyway from a therapist because I could only imagine their biases in where and how you should be trained.
 
Wow, thanks for all the insight/advice, guys! I'm sorry I'm replying so late (I was at work).

To answer some of the questions, yes I did mean the long, year+ psychoanalysis, I'm not too knowledgeable on all the different therapy lingo, so I think the classification in my mind didn't translate right.

My aim is not to get career advice, it's purely for self-growth and betterment so that I will be a better psychologist in the long-run. The reason I was focusing more on this type of therapy was because I am looking for a more broad insight/awareness, instead of a way to manage the stresses of life. Like someone said, I want to recognize my biases, see what I'm transferring, etc. While I don't have depression, anxiety issues, etc. I certainly will have a lot to talk about!

Obviously, this may become costly... hence my seeking out advice on whether it's a worthwhile endeavor! It seems like the consensus is that it is a good idea to get some type of therapy, so I think I will definitely look into it. I'll see if my school has a list or whatnot. I did a google search and found that the Psychoanalytic Center/Institute of Philadelphia has a consultation/referral service with a sliding scale, so I think I'll look into that (after seeing what my school has to offer).

Thanks again!
 
The bottom line is that you can only relate to others through your own personal experience. How, then, can you effectively understand (and treat) others when you don't fully (or at least better) understand how your personal experience has affected you?

You don't necessarily have to go for psychoanalysis three times a week but I think therapy once a week with a psychodynamic slant will be useful for every future therapist. If you have health insurance, you can look through the company's website. I believe Psychology Today's website also has listings of providers.
 
nononora said:
The bottom line is that you can only relate to others through your own personal experience. How, then, can you effectively understand (and treat) others when you don't fully (or at least better) understand how your personal experience has affected you?
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This really makes a lot of sense, and I definitely agree.... thanks for putting that into words.

I'm not sure about the insurance option, I, too, am skeptical about them paying for it without a "real" reason.
 
Oh, this absolutely won't be covered by insurance. You'll have a tough time getting insurance to cover psychoanalysis even WITH a diagnosis. Insurance typically covers a very limited number of sessions, which doesn't exactly mesh well with a psychoanalysis, which can take years. There's briefer forms of psychodynamic therapy that are becoming popular (probably for this reason).
 
Ollie123 said:
Oh, this absolutely won't be covered by insurance. You'll have a tough time getting insurance to cover psychoanalysis even WITH a diagnosis. Insurance typically covers a very limited number of sessions, which doesn't exactly mesh well with a psychoanalysis, which can take years. There's briefer forms of psychodynamic therapy that are becoming popular (probably for this reason).
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Not necessarily true. I'm seeing a psychodynamic therapist who doesn't take insurance (which seems rather common). I do submit my bills to my insurance (a PPO) and I am reimbursed 70%. There is no diagnosis on my bill or paperwork I submit. So while I pay out of pocket technically, I get a lot of it back. I'm not sure how long this will last mind you because I'm sure there's a limit on how much they'll reimburse. But so far so good :rolleyes:
I also negotiated a lower rate based on my income.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
Would insurance pay for therapy without a diagnosis, though? It doesn't seem like something a lot of companies would go for.
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No they wouldn't but that's where Adjustment Disorder NOS comes in handy :)

The amount that is covered really depends on your health plan. I'm with PHCS (student insurance through the school) and they cover 100% of reasonable cost for 20 sessions with a $50 deductible per diagnosis.
 
cara susanna said:
Would it cover CBT without a diagnosis?
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Best thing to do is to call your own insurance company and find out what your plan covers. Not only does it differ between companies, but also between plans with those companies.
 
Your insurance is a lot more permissive then Medicare, Cosmo! (Medicare is, however, significantly increasing mental health benefits in the coming years [increasing reimbursement rates mainly, though there's some other stuff I'm forgetting] as part of MIPPA). They require a dx for everything.
 
^

Yeah I was pretty dang shocked at the reimbursement without question. The CPT is 90806 so they know what it's for. I probably just jinxed myself :)
 
Cosmo75 said:
Not necessarily true. I'm seeing a psychodynamic therapist who doesn't take insurance (which seems rather common). I do submit my bills to my insurance (a PPO) and I am reimbursed 70%. There is no diagnosis on my bill or paperwork I submit. So while I pay out of pocket technically, I get a lot of it back. I'm not sure how long this will last mind you because I'm sure there's a limit on how much they'll reimburse. But so far so good :rolleyes:
I also negotiated a lower rate based on my income.
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Huh. First I'd heard of this happening. I was definitely under the impression a diagnosis was required to even have a shot at reimbursement.

I think in general, without a diagnosis its not the norm to get reimbursed (though who knows, after reading Cosmo's post maybe I'm completely off base). What type of therapy is kind of irrelevant to the insurers...they just don't want to pay for treatment for what they perceive as "nothing". Just like how they often won't pay for prevention, but will pay tens of thousands afterwards :rolleyes: Truth be told I can kind of see the point when it comes to therapy...I think its beneficial for everyone, but I don't know of evidence that it can really prevent the development of psychopathology in the same sense as say...an immunization. Personal growth is great, but I'm not sure it falls under the domain of insurance;)

You're right that plenty of people would diagnose adjustment disorder, but it IS technically insurance fraud if applied to someone who really is just seeking therapy for purposes of self-exploration.
 
Our school requires to get 30 hours ourselves. They put togther a list of those in the area willing to do it at GREATLY discounted rates. And lots of our alum do it for free. I did 6 months of analytic type therapy with an old school dude for 25 bucks per session (100 dollars a month). :D

I know students in my oprogram who also get reimbursed by their insurance carriers. But I think they all said they had to request a V code diagnosis from the therapist. I mean, come on we all have one of those V codes probably. :laugh:
 
erg923 said:
but i think they all said they had to request a v code diagnosis from the therapist. I mean, come on we all have one of those v codes probably.
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71.09? TECHNICALLY, its a V code;)
 
It definitely depends on insurance type, level, and company....as some places don't req. a Dx, while others are much more stingy. EAPs can also be a good place to look, though they tend to cap at 6-12 sessions.

Analytic Institutes are a great source of low-cost therapy, as most offer sliding scales that are much more reasonable than you would find at a solo practice. I am hoping to study at one in a few years, so I've been checking out a few of the more popular ones.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
It definitely depends on insurance type, level, and company....as some places don't req. a Dx, while others are much more stingy. EAPs can also be a good place to look, though they tend to cap at 6-12 sessions.
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Agreed. I've had the same type of insurance from the same carrier (PPO from Aetna) and have had wildly different levels of coverage. Both were through employment, not grad school. The first was quite stingy on medical coverage, and required justifications for things they considered "experimental." I found myself in their appeals process more than once. I wasn't in therapy at that time, but I suspect they would want a diagnosis and treatment plan with updates on progress. The insurance I have now through my spouse's company is stellar. Ironically, the company he works for is about 1/10th the size of the place I worked for with the crap insurance.
 
If you're looking in the Philadelphia area for psychodynamic therapy, inquire with the Philadelphia Society for Psychoanalytic Psychology - pspp.org. They have a list of therapists who are currently taking low-fee grad students.

I agree with KillerDiller, who corrected the false assumption that CBT is only for glaringly obvious problems.

Also, psychodynamic psychotherapy is not necessarly long-term. (A bit of psych history trivia: the years-long model being the norm for psychoanalysis is not Freudian. It happened when psychoanalysis came to the U.S.) That being said, I'm getting a lot out of my psychodynamic therapy, which has been just over a year now.
 
GradStudent87 said:
Yea I've dealt with the same issue, I started my therapy hoping to talk about a deep personal issue and instead it's become the how I am going to get into a PhD show? I really need to stop that somehow although It's kind of hard to pass up on getting advice on how to get where you want to get from someone who's in the position you want to be in eventually and I do think they could be helpful with tips on stuff like personal statements/interviews etc but overall therapy needs to be more about personal issues or yea like you said i'm paying all this money for stuff I could probably look up on the internet.
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm surprised therapists allow this to happen. My therapist, with rare exception, makes it clear that we're there for my therapy, not for career counseling or clinical supervision. IMO, you cheat yourself if you allow your therapy time to get derailed this way. Personal therapy is a valuable and unique experience and there are plenty of other outlets to get other types of mentoring or support.

Just my opinion, but I do feel strongly about this...:)
 
athenax said:
I hope this isn't repetitive, I tried searching for this a couple different ways but nothing came up. If there was some discussion on this before just direct me to the right spot so I'm not cluttering up the forum!

So -- I'm about to start a Master's with the goal of eventually going into a clinical doctorate... I like the idea of getting a "taste" for therapy and exploring any issues I have if I'm eventually going to become a clinician. What are your ideas on this and do you have any suggestions for how to go about finding a therapist? Should I wait until I actually get into my PhD program and learning about therapy?

I'm assuming I would probably opt for a psychotherapist as I don't have any glaringly huge problems that could be fixed by cognitive-behavioral therapy (although that's probably what I'll be trained in), but I am very interested in psychotherapy itself as well (perhaps as a later goal in my education).

Obviously, a big issue is that I'm a student, and don't have a lot of money -- is it impossible to find a good therapist for an affordable rate?

Thanks in advance!

(By the way I'll be in the Philadelphia area in case anyone has specific knowledge/advice for the region.)
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This is a great question and I'm glad to see it on here. I think that it should be required for all psychologists to go through some kind of therapy/counseling. Some programs (like mine) require a certain number of hours in various therapy settings like individual and group therapy. If your program doesn't have this as a requirement, I recommend going to the health center at your school. Most health centers have counseling as one of the services. However, if you go to a private school this might be an issue because I have noticed that at many private schools the counseling services are consequently ran by the psychology department. You can also try a search under your insurance provider, if you have health insurance. If none of this works out for you, I recommend trying something old fashioned: look in the phone book. Another option: if you have a mentor relationship with a professor, you can ask them for advice concerning this idea. Hope some of this helps you out.

TG
 
While I think all grad students should have at least a little therapy, I don't know about this business some people are talking about of requiring it.
 
JockNerd said:
While I think all grad students should have at least a little therapy, I don't know about this business some people are talking about of requiring it.
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I agree with JockNerd on this one. While I'm fine with therapy being encouraged, I'm not sure I would consider it appropriate if my program required it.

Secondly, I wanted to just put out an additional caution about seeing a therapist at your university's own counseling center. Doing this at my program results in you being disqualified from doing your internship with the counseling center (which makes a lot of sense).
 
Actually, the program I'm going to attend considers it inappropriate to require it. Or so they said at interviews when someone asked that question.
 
Most programs will never require therapy because they can't force graduate students to pay $100+ per session out of their own pocket. And they're also unwilling to subsidize the cost.
 
Like everything else in clinical psychology, programs differ on the therapy question depending on the type of program you go to. In my experience, more academic programs don't necessarily encourage therapy for students. Programs intent on turning out clinicians, especially psychodynamic clinicians, usually do encourage it. Some require it. I've heard it's a requirement for licensure in California. Does anyone know if this is correct?
 
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