Thesis vs non thesis

[andalusite_angles]

I’m currently in enrolled in an acute care NP program with three remaining semesters. I have a thesis or non-thesis option. The thesis option gets me research hours that I can box check for medical school. The non-thesis will net me 6 hours of easy As towards my degree (my grad GPA is already a 4.0).

According to MSAR, 98% and 87% of the students accepted at the two medical schools in my region had research/lab experience. One of the two schools is a top 20, so even if I manage to dominate the MCAT I still need to stand out.

-Research/lab: none.
-Clinical: I will have 11 years of RN experience and 2-3 years of NP experience at the time of application.
-For the T20 school, I’m a former employee of one of their ICUs and my deceased father was an alumnus of one of their graduate programs.
-My undergraduate cGPA is 3.6, last 60 hours 3.9. I still have another 40 hours of sciences I plan to take prior to applying.
-Leadership: I just landed a GTA position and have also been relief charge, preceptor for nursing students, and coached/trained new employees.
-Volunteering: I’m starting a new position working with domestic violence and rape victims, so that will be 3-4 years of continued service at the time of application. My other history is more sporadic, such as disaster relief work when we have had tornadoes and food pantry/clothes closet/ charity fundraisers in my late teens and early 20s. I’ve done very little volunteering the past few years as I’ve had my own struggles to survive.

Should I choose the thesis option? Non thesis for the easy As? Find another way to get involved with research? Say screw research altogether and relax a bit?

Thank you for any advice!

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[Moko]

What are you hoping to do with a MD that you can't do with a NP? If your goal is to get into one of the schools that you looked up, then you should engage in some scholarly activity. Whether that be through your thesis vs extracurricular research is up to you.

 

[andalusite_angles]

What are you hoping to do with a MD that you can't do with a NP?

I am interested in procedure heavy fields - my state is restrictive for APPs, my hospital system even more-so. I could see myself happy with pulm/cc, GI, surgery, IR. I’d love to be able to perform bronchs, insert chest tubes, etc. As an RN I certainly have had fun inserting PEG tubes. Not sure if I would be happy with the physician role in the ED, but the patient population the NPs serve certainly burned me out as an RN. Day in, day out of drug seeking behavior in fast track was awful; the ED physician would usually spend 2-5 minutes at the bedside with the difficult patients I had dealt with for hours, even less if the NP had already done the work up. The shock, the traumas, the full arrests that made the ED exciting and got me out of bed in the morning, the NPs don’t see those cases.

I hope to work in critical care when I graduate next year - it provides the greatest use of my scope of practice and I love the disease processes. I’d be closely supervised by our intensivists.

The MD route provides the breadth and depth of knowledge I lack; my education is inadequate for independent practice. Despite having “physician supervision,” I’ve seen major errors made by NPs that were from knowledge deficits. So where are my deficits that will cause poor outcomes? Hard to know what I don’t know. That terrifies me.

Thank you for your response. I’ll do the thesis option.

 

[Moko]

I hope to work in critical care when I graduate next year - it provides the greatest use of my scope of practice and I love the disease processes. I’d be closely supervised by our intensivists. The MD route provides the breadth and depth of knowledge I lack; my education is inadequate for independent practice. Despite having “physician supervision,” I’ve seen major errors made by NPs that were from knowledge deficits. So where are my deficits that will cause poor outcomes? Hard to know what I don’t know. That terrifies me.

Couple thoughts:
1) Depending on the hospital (and it seems state), NP/PAs get to do quite a bit. At my current workplace, ICU NP/PAs put in central lines, dialysis catheters, thoracentesis, paracentesis, run codes, etc, all with a fair amount of autonomy. If the procedural aspect is what attracts you, it might be easier to move to a site/state that allows for these responsibilities (this is akin to moving for medical school, residency, and fellowship).
2) Breadth and depth of knowledge is driven more by the individual rather than the degree. The most dedicated NP/PAs I've worked with have an excellent fund of knowledge and clinical acumen, whereas some of my MD colleagues' practice patterns seem to still be from the 1990s. Whereas a fresh NP will likely know less than a fresh practicing MD, this is likely due to differences in the length and depth of training, both of which can be overcome over time and dedication. Knowledge deficits will exist in every role, and being cognizant of this (as you are) is the most important thing. Plenty of very serious errors have been made by practicing physicians too. To minimize the chances of causing these errors myself, I routinely fill in the gaps in my knowledge and seek out additional help (through consultants, etc) when needed. Liberal use of google, uptodate, medical journals and Cochrane reviews (not necessarily in this order ) doesn't hurt either.

Certainly I'm not dissuading you from pursuing whatever degree you wish. Becoming a board-licensed physician is expensive and time-consuming, so I hope to offer some counterpoints to ensure that you're making an informed and more importantly the right decision for yourself. Best of luck

 

[DNAJB6]

What are you hoping to do with a MD that you can't do with a NP?

If you're going to do doctors' work, you might as well receive doctors' compensation for it.

 

[Moko]

If you're going to do doctors' work, you might as well receive doctors' compensation for it.

I'm not sure that pursuing a MD after having already obtained a NP degree makes sense from a financial standpoint. There will be 4 years of lost income during medical school, at least 5 years of lower absolute income during residency and fellowship (not to mention the many more hours worked), an extra six figures in debt incurred, in addition to losing several years of compounding interest. Even if the finances made sense, there's many other considerations that need to be accounted for. Just my thoughts

 

[Cawolf]

I applied as a non-trad with good clinical experience (7 years), post-bac grades, and MCAT. I had no shadowing, volunteering, or research on my application as I was able to use my clinical experience to explain my knowledge of the profession, interest in service, and passion for new knowledge.

Not that I think ignoring those critical application aspects are a wise choice for everyone, but it worked for me and I think it illustrates that someone with your experience does not need to check every box. Therefore, I don't think that research is important to your success, assuming you do well enough on the MCAT.