Touro-NV vs. Touro NY

[waitwhat]

I was lucky enough to get into both Touro-NV and Touro-NY. I still haven't got any other interviews form any other schools, but I haven't been rejected, so the possibility of getting into another school is still there.

Anywho, I have to make a decision between these two in the next week. I know it may trivial since both schools are similar, but any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance!



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[dangit]

hey congrats to you!

i actually got into those two schools and I am actually deciding btwn the two. i have till next week. so my decision comes down like this:

Nevada:
PRO:
1. NV- location (looks like your from SoCal, so am i). I want to be able to stay close by since my family and in-law family are in cali.
2. NV has a match list and it's pretty good. A lot of students come back to Cali.
3. Rotation sites are established and they're in Las Vegas. No need to relocate and whatnot.
CON:
Near the strip. Maybe distracting?

New York:
PRO
1. NY- it's in harlem. Everybody wants to live in NY (well not everybody). There's lots to do. It's NY. Pretty self explanatory.
CON:
1. Still a new school, but it looks promising. Not sure if rotation sites are up yet.
2. No match list.

So I think what it boils down to is if you want to stay on the West Coast and not endure cold weather in the winter, NV is your best bet. If you want the urban city life, NY is the way to go. That's what I've thought so far. What about you?

 

[Semicolon]

hey congrats to you!

i actually got into those two schools and I am actually deciding btwn the two. i have till next week. so my decision comes down like this:

Nevada:
PRO:
1. NV- location (looks like your from SoCal, so am i). I want to be able to stay close by since my family and in-law family are in cali.
2. NV has a match list and it's pretty good. A lot of students come back to Cali.
3. Rotation sites are established and they're in Las Vegas. No need to relocate and whatnot.
CON:
Near the strip. Maybe distracting?

New York:
PRO
1. NY- it's in harlem. Everybody wants to live in NY (well not everybody). There's lots to do. It's NY. Pretty self explanatory.
CON:
1. Still a new school, but it looks promising. Not sure if rotation sites are up yet.
2. No match list.

So I think what it boils down to is if you want to stay on the West Coast and not endure cold weather in the winter, NV is your best bet. If you want the urban city life, NY is the way to go. That's what I've thought so far. What about you?

Sorry to say, but Harlem isn't that great of a place to reside in. Not at all. Most of the city is incredibly expensive to live in. Sure, NYC is awesome, but if location was your only pro, I'd go with NV. Just my two cents.

 

[dangit]

thanks for catching me on that. let me be more clear. harlem isn't the best place to live, but the mission of touro ny is to reach out to harlem. they focus on urban healthcare so that's a pro if you want to experience urban healthcare. harlem is the best place to get that experience. that is what i meant, but yes, i definitely agree, it's not the best place to live. yea, the other part is that ny is very expensive. personally, i am leaning towards nv.

 

[Semicolon]

thanks for catching me on that. let me be more clear. harlem isn't the best place to live, but the mission of touro ny is to reach out to harlem. they focus on urban healthcare so that's a pro if you want to experience urban healthcare. harlem is the best place to get that experience. that is what i meant, but yes, i definitely agree, it's not the best place to live. yea, the other part is that ny is very expensive. personally, i am leaning towards nv.

With that I definitely agree. It would be great for urban experience.

However, just because you may want to practice there doesn't mean you should live there. This isn't ethnographic work, after all. (Not saying you want to.)

 

[pietachok]

I've worked in research at Columbia St. Lukes and Mt. Sinai School of Medicine for the past several years, lived in Harlem, had to walk around Harlem, right past where the new Touro-NY school is as part of my job, etc. I used to live/work pretty close to there and I could deal with that.

My problem is this, for a school that claims to be supporting underserved & urban medicine, from what I understand if you speak to current students & recent interviewees, the only clinical sites they have set up are not anywhere near Harlem. In other cities/towns, it is possible to have a car and commute to distance clerkships, but in Manhattan, that means you'd have to either (1) live ridiculously far from school or some of the clinical rotations in order not to double your rent, or (2) live near school but take public transportation. From what I heard, if it is correct, some rotation sites are in Staten Island, and distant parts of Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, etc.--miserable commutes when you are overworked/overstressed. If they can guarantee you that you will be at the same site for all rotations, you could move to be close to it, but I doubt they have that much clout yet. I feel like they should have been more forthcoming about this.

To me, when a school is in Harlem and near so many hospitals, and so tiny, I just sort of assumed they would have successfully negotiated for rotations in Harlem. It doesn't sound like they did.

Accordingly, unless you get information that tells you otherwise, and unless you are ok with 2 hour public transportation to your clerkships, I would go with Touro-NV, a known entity.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Vegas ... take a savage journey into the heart of the American Dream ...


Sorry that wasn't helpful at all. However, I'd pick NV over NY based on location (this sounds weird, but I love NV - not just Vegas), things I've heard about the school, and NV's match list as such a young school.

 

[cliquesh]

If you check out the osteopathic forum, not the pre-osteopathic forum, it seems that Touro-NV is the best among all of the touro's. Also, do a search for posts from "bht." He/she attended both Touro-NY and CA, and he/she has spent sometime with touro-NV students. So I think he has a pretty good preception of Touro. However, I must warn you, he had a pretty bad experience at Touro-CA, so a lot of his comments are negative and are probably an exaggeration of the truth.

 

[JaggerPlate]

If you check out the osteopathic forum, not the pre-osteopathic forum, it seems that Touro-NV is the best among all of the touro's. Also, do a search for posts from "bht." He/she attended both Touro-NY and CA, and he/she has spent sometime with touro-NV students. So I think he has a pretty good preception of Touro. However, I must warn you, he had a pretty bad experience at Touro-CA, so a lot of his comments are negative and are probably an exaggeration of the truth.

Hahah, are you talking about 'bth7 ?' It's a different student who attended both TU-NY and CA. Bth7 only went to TU-MI (CA) and has had some big issues with the clinicals and matching in ACGME.

 

[waitwhat]

Well here is my dealio...

I'm leaning a little towards NY. Simply because of the city. I'm from southern California. I would probably never live in NY, except for the fact that I have the option for medical school. I think it would be a really fun experience with the culture, the people, the city. Vegas is a hop skip and a jump away from home. An although it's close. Being in NY or NV I would probably venture home the same frequency.

As far as education. I feel the education at both schools will be quite similar regardless of the Touro's. I feel like its what you make of it. I am interested in a specialty outside of Primary Care such as gen surgery or a sub-specialty. NV might be a better choice for this. However, I don't believe Primary Care is set in stone at NY. Again, if you preform well on the board, I think I should be alright.

For clinicals, I think that you'd have some what of a commute wherever. It looks like NY has Lennox Hill secured amongst some other good hospitals. NV is pretty established.

As far as match lists, NV has NY beat. But I would expect NY to put something decent out by the time I get out.

The whole thing is confusing and stressfull...AHHHH!

Thanks for the input. Any others?

 

[coffeeeandtea]

Well here is my dealio...

I'm leaning a little towards NY. Simply because of the city. I'm from southern California. I would probably never live in NY, except for the fact that I have the option for medical school. I think it would be a really fun experience with the culture, the people, the city. Vegas is a hop skip and a jump away from home. An although it's close. Being in NY or NV I would probably venture home the same frequency.

As far as education. I feel the education at both schools will be quite similar regardless of the Touro's. I feel like its what you make of it. I am interested in a specialty outside of Primary Care such as gen surgery or a sub-specialty. NV might be a better choice for this. However, I don't believe Primary Care is set in stone at NY. Again, if you preform well on the board, I think I should be alright.

For clinicals, I think that you'd have some what of a commute wherever. It looks like NY has Lennox Hill secured amongst some other good hospitals. NV is pretty established.

As far as match lists, NV has NY beat. But I would expect NY to put something decent out by the time I get out.

The whole thing is confusing and stressfull...AHHHH!

Thanks for the input. Any others?

i don't really have any important input, but i just wanted to say that hopefully i'll be in the same situation you are soon. just got into Touro NY and i'm interviewing at Touro NV next Saturday... i'm from southern California too (Orange County also!)

 

[beachbum08]

i have been researching alot about harlem, safety etc. it seems that central and west harlem are not that bad of neighborhoods. in the 80's they had a bad rap, but it seems now that the touro area is an up and coming neighborhood (or being gentrified, however you want to look at it). the cost of living is high but the harlem area is the cheapest rent of anywhere in Manhattan, and the high cost of living could be offset by not having to make a car payment, pay for car insurance, nor gas.

some of the rotation sites are pretty far... but they just got lenox hill and are actively negotiating to get other sites as well. i agree, it would be nice to have a site in harlem, however i think there is a Touro clinic there. it seems that columbia has dibs on the harlem hospital center.

that being said, there are great externship opportunities available on Manhattan island that could lead to great residency opportunities...

 

[bigDinLV]

There are a few people that did intra-touro transfers, i'm one of them. I went to CA and graduating from NV.

I think the NV school is actually pretty good for being as new as we are. No matter where you go, someone will be unhappy about something. I would take any posts you read by "Bth" with a grain of salt, he apparently is very unhapy and I haven't heard him say a single good thing about Touro (plus he goes to CA which you aren't considering).

The good things about NV are living in Vegas itself. I know the strip might seem like a distraction, but it gets old pretty fast. When I first came here I went out quite a bit because I was new to Vegas and wanted to see and do everything. It was out of my system after about 2 months. I did this after I was already established in med school so I had the rest of the routine down. To be first starting med school and have that might have been a little harder but still able to manage. There are outdoors things to do like hiking or rock climbing at red rock. You can go to lake mead if you like type of thing. Lots of great places to eat. On special occasions you can go see a show on the strip or something. Vegas is the type of place that kinda polarizes people, you love it or hate it.

Cost of living is in the middle somewhere. More expensive than the midwest, but cheaper than NY for sure. I rented a new house in a gated community for $1250 per month. We have a fairly good amount included in our financial aid package for living expenses, so it isn't bad at all.

Weather.. Fall, winter and spring are really nice. Winters will be way better than NY. Summers suck, its just too hot sometimes.

Education.. I did 1st year at CA so someone else might be able to give input on that. 2nd year was fine, the main micro prof is really outstanding. Path prof was alright, waaaaaay long handouts though. Pharm had changed a little over the past few years, but it wasn't too bad. CS wasn't that great, I never went to CS lectures. they have an attendance policy now though.

Rotations.. Didn't have the greatest clin ed staff for a while but they have new staff now and things are much better than they were. Dr. E is an overall good guy and pretty fair. We get to stay in Vegas for all of our rotations if you want. they require core rotations to be done here. You can do electives away. Actually if you want to do the whole 3rd and 4th years away you will have to get approved for that (a few had some personal issues or whatever and did the majority of the time away). Some people have complained about getting crappy rotations, for instance both of their IM rotations were in sub-specialty outpatient clinics. I happened to get lucky and got inpatient rotations for all of the rotations that should have been inpatient. IM at Valley is good IMO, depending on who you are with. That is where our residency programs are based at. Sunrise and UMC are bigger hospitals that we can also rotate at along with some medium and smaller places. We do rotations for one month each, calendar months. You might be at Valley one month, Sunrise the next and UMC after that. You aren't just stuck at one facility.

IMO the dean wants to build a good institution. People might or might not agree with how he does things, overall I think the school is heading in a good direction. For instance for our dean's letter for residency applications he took the time to meet with each of us. It was actually a real personalized letter. He even did a few practice type questions and gave us interview tips.

 

[Gold 5]

I've worked in research at Columbia St. Lukes and Mt. Sinai School of Medicine for the past several years, lived in Harlem, had to walk around Harlem, right past where the new Touro-NY school is as part of my job, etc. I used to live/work pretty close to there and I could deal with that.

My problem is this, for a school that claims to be supporting underserved & urban medicine, from what I understand if you speak to current students & recent interviewees, the only clinical sites they have set up are not anywhere near Harlem. In other cities/towns, it is possible to have a car and commute to distance clerkships, but in Manhattan, that means you'd have to either (1) live ridiculously far from school or some of the clinical rotations in order not to double your rent, or (2) live near school but take public transportation. From what I heard, if it is correct, some rotation sites are in Staten Island, and distant parts of Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, etc.--miserable commutes when you are overworked/overstressed. If they can guarantee you that you will be at the same site for all rotations, you could move to be close to it, but I doubt they have that much clout yet. I feel like they should have been more forthcoming about this.

To me, when a school is in Harlem and near so many hospitals, and so tiny, I just sort of assumed they would have successfully negotiated for rotations in Harlem. It doesn't sound like they did.

Accordingly, unless you get information that tells you otherwise, and unless you are ok with 2 hour public transportation to your clerkships, I would go with Touro-NV, a known entity.

I am a TOUROCOM student so I can shine a little more light upon the rotations. Initially the school was in discussion with Harlem Hospital and another local hospital for rotations. This was stopped / lost due to NYC HHC (which runs the public hospitals such as Harlem Hospital) signing a multi year contract with St George. If you want to read about it, try:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/nyregion/05grenada.html?_r=2&ref=health&oref=slogin

Per the dean we would have to pay another 20K in tuition a year for the privilege of doing rotations in Harlem. Since then we have signed contracts with the following:

Trinitas (NJ: Elizabeth)
SIU (NY: Staten Island)
St John (NY: Brooklyn)
Bronx-Lebanon (NY: Bronx)

and a few more sites that I can't remember off the top of my head. The fact that they do not have a Manhattan hospital yet is a known issue that they are working on. Also they are looking to add to this list but these things take time.
As for the community, we the students have more than a few programs in place to give back to the local community including after school tutoring, a local clinic & going out to help teach public health. Not to mention spending alot of money in the local community for rent, food, etc.

My two cents, pick the TOURO that you thinks fits your life the best.

Good Luck,
Gold

 

[beachbum08]

I am a TOUROCOM student so I can shine a little more light upon the rotations. Initially the school was in discussion with Harlem Hospital and another local hospital for rotations. This was stopped / lost due to NYC HHC (which runs the public hospitals such as Harlem Hospital) signing a multi year contract with St George. If you want to read about it, try:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/nyregion/05grenada.html?_r=2&ref=health&oref=slogin

that is a really interesting article. Quite a precedent, $100 Million contract, paying $400 per week per student is a hefty chunk of change. but as the article points out St. George's haa 1000 new medical students per year vs. the 130 new students per year at other new york schools. 1000 students!!
hmmm... it will be interesting to see what happens with this. med school is already so expensive, i would hate to see the quality of education change so that they can get more students, thus more money so that they can be competitive for local rotations.

it is an interesting argument that the hospitals need the extra revenue due to marginal profits. but really, should it be the med students that pay for that? this really points out the need for a change in how the medical system is set up.

thanks for the post Gold.

 

[DrWBD]

Trinitas (NJ: Elizabeth)
SIU (NY: Staten Island)
St John (NY: Brooklyn)
Bronx-Lebanon (NY: Bronx)

Students actually pay tuition to rotate through those hospitals?
And no Manhattan affiliates? Insane...

 

[beachbum08]

well, the students at St. George's tuition goes to paying for their rotation through the Harlem Hospital. Which is the precedent that St. George's is setting. Except for St. George's, no medical schools in New York, including Touro, pay for their students' rotations. Some schools, like NYU, give the hoospitals a tip. It's in the article. You should read it.

 

[DrWBD]

well, the students at St. George's tuition goes to paying for their rotation through the Harlem Hospital. Which is the precedent that St. George's is setting. Except for St. George's, no medical schools in New York, including Touro, pay for their students' rotations. Some schools, like NYU, give the hoospitals a tip. It's in the article. You should read it.

I'm familiar with the article.

Interesting article about SGU clerkships and New York HHC hospitals from August 2008.

 

[dylantanis]

the whole HHC, SGU deal pretty much screwed Touro-NY and other foreign med schools...

for the slots assigned for the US med students, those are preserved for instance Bellevue is part of HHC, but NYU students rotate there and no SGU students.

so it has no immediate effect (you can argue the ramifications for the future) on the existing US med schools...only on new ones like Touro.

personally...i think the deal is positive...these hospitals are in major need of money...and resources are used to teach med students...and so its time for schools to pay up...

 

[ejay1518]

.

 

[pyropig]

I would go to Vegas. Im from Northern Nevada up in Reno. I personally have no great love of Vegas but housing is sooooooooo cheap right now its unreal. Not to mention, take it from a guy who lives in a casino town, theyre not that distracting, the strip lifestyle novelty wears off real quickly, but its nice to have around when you need to unwind

 

[beachbum08]

I'm familiar with the article.

Interesting article about SGU clerkships and New York HHC hospitals from August 2008.

heh. heh. toche. so you did meeage sohn. your thread link is actually an interesting little rabbit hole.