Transfer from DMD/DDS to MD?

[UBTom]

Originally posted by MacGyver
A dental student lecturing me on the USMLE?

And you who knows nothing about dentistry lecturing those who do?

Pot, kettle, black. Heh, you must have taken the HYPOCRITIC oath.

And yeah, dental students who just might take the USMLE Step-I during OMFS PGY-2. Can't stand the thought that a dentist can actually become a physician too?

Get used to it!

You really are clueless arent you? OMS residents KNOW they are going into oral/max surgery--their specialty choice has already been made. The same cant be said for med students.

You really are BEYOND clueless, aren't you?

So what if OMS residents already know what they are going into? Your insinuation that an OMS/MD is less a physician than a plain MD just because "their specialty choice has already been made" is utter absurd bullcrap. If anything, DDS MDs are MORE than YOU will be. TWO doctorates. And all those things you cluelessly claimed oral surgeons don't need to know, I saw them use first hand.

Let's review just how much a monopoly you have on cluelessness: So far, you 1) didn't know the first thing about modifying treatment of anticoagulated patients 2) didn't know that many OMFS residents ARE med students or 3) didn't know that many oral surgeons ARE MD's and 4) thought only 1% of all dentists are specialists.

You knew zilch about the dental profession, yet you deign to lecture those who do. Clueless indeed..

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[ehop24]

During this thread, people on both sides of the argument bring up hypothetical situations about how medical history affects dental treatment.

To all of these questions, there is usually an easy answer, and then an intuitive one. Sure, 90% of the worlds dentists might just do what they were told/taught, without regard to biochemistry or microbiology. Thats easy, quick, and almost always safe for the patient.

But then there are dentists that intuitively consider and think through the science of their decisions. They take into account the potential cross-reactions and contraindications.

My point therein is that having basic sciences in dental school gives the dentist the opportunity and capability to use them, if they so desire.

And are dentists the only ones guilty of taking the easy answer? Heck no. I'm willing to bet that just as many physicians react to questions in the same manner.

If we wanted to, medicine and dentistry could be taught as trades. Forget basic sciences. You could just educate students about how to deal with every specific situation. Patient presents with X, doctor administers X. It works just fine for the majority of all situations. Hey, look at how successful it is in medicine, considering that medicine is switching to become more dependent on nurses and other assistants for care delivery. Dont tell me they have the basic science background of a doctor. And yet, they are gaining the capacity to make many of the same decisions.

So why dont we switch to such a system?

Because that isnt the purpose of professional schools. Dental and medical schools look at their professions and decide what they think a practitioner in todays world needs as a FOUNDATION. Whether/how much a practitioner uses that information is solely up to them. But we are expected to be experts in our respective healthcare fields. We are expected to understand the science behind the treatments.

Which brings me to my personal issue: I believe dentists should work harder to integrate their medical knowledge into their treatment. This obviously doenst work for every practioner, ie ortho, etc. But dentistry is changing faster than ever before. Research is PROVING that the mouth has a major influence on systemic health.

Many/most dentists throw everything medical out the window the day they take nbde I. There is simply too much to concentrate on clinically and otherwise.

I can say this: I would rather have treatment rendered by a dentist that knows and applies his medicine. We give dentists a DDS and call them Dr because we expect them to be experts at what they do. And if that entails having the capacity to administer treatment/Rx that can cause serious harm/death, I darn sure hope they have the knowledge to reason through decisions as opposed to taking the easy answer.

 

[Supernumerary]

My belief is that learning unnecessary things in dental school is actually necessary to maintain the "respect" and "salary" of the dentist as a health profession.

So what you're saying is that this is all a fraud we've foisted on the public to trick them out of their money? I like your ethics SDN.

But I tend to agree with with ehop. None of it is unnecessary. Sure we're not going to use the Kreb's cycle in our pra tices; we're not going to need to recall during an extraction that the serine residue in the 93rd position of myoglobin is responsible for the hydrophobic pocket. But it's all a foundation on which to base the rest of our knowledge.

It is absolutely necessary to understand the science behind what we do. Dentistry could be done by retrained carpenters; medicine could be practiced by nurses typing symptoms into a differential diagnosis program on the computer and printing out a prescription. And you know what... it would probably be O.K. about 90% of the time. Where our training comes into play is in when things just aren't quite normal, or things have gone wrong. We need to understand the science if our profession is to progress, if new techniques and procedures are going to be developed, if we will endanger our patient by pushing the boudaries just a little in a new direction.

Despite the fact that relatively few complications arise from dental work, this is a profession where a lot of things can go very wrong very fast. For example:

Dental implant surgery with sinus elevation and bone graft. (Part 3 of 5). 1) ? 3) A sinus lift was performed by opening a small ?window? into the sinus without perforating the Schneiderian Membrane. The window was gently elevated along its superior fracture line and the membrane peeled off of the sinus floor, creating a new, more superior sinus floor. 4) The implants were carefully placed to make sure they were stable. Notice that the width of the alveolar ridge was inadequate for the implants necessitating the PRP graft. The most distal two implant can be seen extending vertically into the elevated sinus. This entire area was covered with the PRP graft.

Dental implant surgery with sinus elevation and bone graft. (Part 5 of 5). 1) Palatal view of the implant site showing the area of the sinus elevation. 2) ? 3) The graft (PRP + patients? bone + freeze-dried bone) material was then placed in the sinus cavity and around the implants. The wound was then closed primarily and the graft was allowed to consolidate for 9 months. 4) Pattern of preparation in bone for sinus elevation.

How could anything go wrong here? BTW, Macguyver this was done by a lowly general dentist. In fact, I will be probably be placing implants (minus the sinus lift, of course) while I am still in school. That's how routine this type of thing. The medical portion of our schooling is very relevant.

 

[MacGyver]

A guy meets a hot girl at a party. The guy is a dentist (non-OMS). The girl says "what do you do for a living"?

The guy says "I'm a doctor"

No matter how much you guys claim to say otherwise, thats flat out unethical and misleading. Thats just as bad as a PhD saying that he's a doctor to a layperson with no qualification attached.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

DDS

Doctor of Dental Surgery

That is not misleading. But I will always reply dentist, bec I am damn proud of it!!!

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

I was thinking about it. Why are we fighting each other here?

A MD will never function as a DDS/DMD.

A DDS/DMD will never function as a MD.

MD's frequently refer patients to the dentist (seen it in the ER many times) and dentist frequently refer pateints to an MD.

This is why it is important for a dentist to learn what many on here called "unnecessary" information. A pateint may go to the physician every three years or so but to the dentist every 9 months. So if a dentist could catch things such as diabetes, it would benefit the patient greatly if they refered them to an MD.

The two should work together, and usually they do except on this forum where they seem to have a hatred for each other.


Grow up and act like a professional!!!

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by MacGyver
A guy meets a hot girl at a party. The guy is a dentist (non-OMS). The girl says "what do you do for a living"?

The guy says "I'm a doctor"

No matter how much you guys claim to say otherwise, thats flat out unethical and misleading. Thats just as bad as a PhD saying that he's a doctor to a layperson with no qualification attached.

If we've reduced you to making up stories about meeting hot girls at parties, we must be making some headway.

We're absolutely doctors, just like Ph.D's and any other <b>doctor</b>al degree owners. You want to solve the problem? Maybe you guys should start calling yourselves by your real job title--physicians--like everybody else, and stop blaming the rest of the educated world.

 

[ItsGavinC]

MacGyver,

Your posts brighten my day! I believe you are trying to say that Ph. Ds don't provide clinical healthcare, which is true. The same is NOT true for dentists however! So, by your definition, dentists certainly are doctors.

As a dentist, will I perform surgery? Yes.

As a dentist, will I have full prescription rights? Yes.

As a dentist, will I refer patients to other specialists, both dental and medical? Yes.

Am I acutely aware of head/neck structures, including cranial nerves? You bet.

Am I a doctor? Yep. I'll practice oral medicine.

P.S. It seems you don't get out much, or you'd know that it is much more fashionable to be a dentist now in days than just "doctor". Afterall, when that hot girl wants to go back to my place, my pager isn't going to go off!

I'd never claim to be a "doctor," if would give people the impression that I'm an insurance slave and dissatisfied with my job. I'm a dentist through and through!

 

[ItsGavinC]

Brocnizer2007,

Excellent posts. Like I said, we ALL refer patients to each other. No matter which way you cut it, it's healthcare!

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
A pateint may go to the physician every three years or so but to the dentist every 9 months. So if a dentist could catch things such as diabetes, it would benefit the patient greatly if they refered them to a MD.

Since when do dentists do glucose blood testing to screen for diabetes?

Sorry but the dentist doesnt "catch" diabetes.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
MacGyver,

Your posts brighten my day! I believe you are trying to say that Ph. Ds don't provide clinical healthcare, which is true. The same is NOT true for dentists however! So, by your definition, dentists certainly are doctors.

As a dentist, will I perform surgery? Yes.

As a dentist, will I have full prescription rights? Yes.

As a dentist, will I refer patients to other specialists, both dental and medical? Yes.

Am I acutely aware of head/neck structures, including cranial nerves? You bet.

Am I a doctor? Yep. I'll practice oral medicine.

PS, don't worry, even the lay public understands that physicians are bombarded by HMO worries. They ALSO understand that dentists aren't. That girl at the bar is after the dentists now.

AND, when she wants to go back to her place, MY pager won't go off!

The bottom line is that if people brush their teeth and floss, 99.9% of the time, they will NEVER need to see a dentist.

Contrast that to doctors--ALL of us will see a doctor at some point in our life.

Only a small percentage of people actually NEED a dentist.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by MacGyver
Since when do dentists do glucose blood testing to screen for diabetes?

Sorry but the dentist doesnt "catch" diabetes.

So which is it, catch or diagnose? You seem to be really confused, and dead wrong!

Don't use your limited medical knowledge to get you into another Coumadin situation (remember that, any comments yet?).

Dentists don't diagnose diabetes, but they certainly do there fair share of catching it!

Periodontitis, especially a rapidly advancing form, is a clinical indicator for diabetes. Notation of periodontitis, along with a few pertinent questions to the patient, will lead to MANY referrals to the MD. At that point glucose levels would be tested.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by MacGyver
The bottom line is that if people brush their teeth and floss, 99.9% of the time, they will NEVER need to see a dentist.

Contrast that to doctors--ALL of us will see a doctor at some point in our life.

Only a small percentage of people actually NEED a dentist.

Where do you get your information? Brushing and flossing does NOT eliminate 99.9% of the population from seeing the dentist, any more than eating well and exercising eliminates 99.9% of the population from seeing a physician. We've already been over this.

Brushing and flossing LOWERS the risk of oral problems, but doesn't eliminate them!

Futhermore, people DON'T brush and floss! Are you living in a make-believe world? So, regardless of what brushing and flossing would do, it doesn't matter, because the public simply does NOT do it!

Caries (cavities) are the #1 health disorder in the United States! So actually 99.9% of the population NEEDS to see a dentist or oral problems will result, which lead to systemic problems, which lead to a lot more patients being referred to MDs.

 

[LestatZinnie]

ok guys...i think this is enough....i just a few more comments to make:

1. aphistis is right. in my med/dent class the MD pressors always refer to themselves as PHYSICIANS, since MD, DMD, or even PhD or vets or chiropractors for that matter are all DOCTOR. So don't get so hung up on the title.

2. obviously you really have an inferiority complex and you just can't stand any other health professionals other than MD's getting the same amount of education/respect as you. You know what- MD's no longer have the exclusive social status they have years ago. Complaints of lack of respect (not to mention killing hours) is often mentioned by my professors. Amount of education does not earn you respect or prestige. I myself and many of my friends respect our dentists more than our physicians because the latter always have a 'hollier than thou' attitude. They talk down to their patients and show little patience. You can keep the illusion that your degree makes you god.

3. i think another source of indignancy for you is that even general dentists will be able to make equivalent, if not more, amount of money than many physicians (including specialists) while having tons of time dominate on the golf course. I'll be driving a porsche by the time I'm 30, but most people won't even have finished their MD residencies yet. Admit it- you're jealous because we make great money doing rather simple procedures that no one else can do- even the holly MD's.

4. Now that you've made us dentists feel so bad ourselves, why don't you go pick on the optometrists/podiatrists??

5. Have a nice, balanced life as a PHYSICIAN...and I hope your attitude doesn't backfire on you.

cheers,

McGIll DMD 2007

 

[UBTom]

Originally posted by MacGyver
Since when do dentists do glucose blood testing to screen for diabetes?

Sorry but the dentist doesnt "catch" diabetes.

BZZZZT!!! WRONG AGAIN, MacGoober!

Have you ever seen how diabetes manifest itself in the oral cavity? I thought not. How about rampant periodontitis concurrent with widespread candidiasis?

Dentists ARE on the frontlines for detecting undiagnosed diabetics, no matter what an arrogant little ***** who isn't even an MD says.

Funny, I just saw the GPR, PEDS *AND* OMFS residents at a hospital do blood glucose tests for diabetic patients before rendering treatment.

Hike up your pants. Your crap is getting deep.

 

[MacGyver]

The more you post tom, the more I realize that you really hate being relegated to the role of teeth cleaner.

Deal with it!

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by LestatZinnie

3. i think another source of indignancy for you is that even general dentists will be able to make equivalent, if not more, amount of money than many physicians (including specialists)

Sorry but thats flat out bull****. Dentists make about the same money as FP/IM. They do NOT make more than specialists on average.

while having tons of time dominate on the golf course.

well thats certainly an important criteria for career choice.

I'll be driving a porsche by the time I'm 30, but most people won't even have finished their MD residencies yet.

And you guys are the ones saying doctors are shallow?

that sounds like a great reason for going into dentistry.

Admit it- you're jealous because we make great money doing rather simple procedures that no one else can do- even the holly MD's.

lots of other people COULD do it. A dental hygienist could do most of the stuff thats relegated to dentists. But just like doctors, there are artificial barriers in place to keep dentists making lots of money.

you complain about doctors, but our greed is surpassed only by yours.

4. Now that you've made us dentists feel so bad ourselves, why don't you go pick on the optometrists/podiatrists??

Been there, done that. They know their place. Many of your ilk still need to "know their role"

5. Have a nice, balanced life as a PHYSICIAN...and I hope your attitude doesn't backfire on you.

This coming from a guy bragging about golf time and driving a porsche?

 

[UBTom]

Originally posted by MacGyver
The more you post tom, the more I realize that you really hate being relegated to the role of teeth cleaner.

Deal with it!

Face it MacMoron, you just aren't that important to need "dealing with." Get used to it!

Besides, I relegate teeth cleaning to my dental hygienists.

NEXT!

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC

Where do you get your information? Brushing and flossing does NOT eliminate 99.9% of the population from seeing the dentist, any more than eating well and exercising eliminates 99.9% of the population from seeing a physician. We've already been over this.

Come on man you cant compare those 2 clinical prevention scenarios.

are you really arguing that brushing/flossing is the same level of prevention as eating well/exercising? Remember we are talking about dentists vs ALL DOCTORS here. Who's to say that the healty eater/exerciser doesnt suffer trauma in a car wreck? Who's to say they have genomic predisposition to certain disorders? There are millions of diseases that have NOTHING to do with preventive maintenance.

Contrast that with dentistry, in whcih 95% of all dental problems are prevented with good hygiene.

Dentists have a nice little scam going on. They claim that everbody needs to see the dentist every 6 months REGARDLESS of hygiene habits. All of us know here thats not necessary unless the person decides not to take care of themselves.

Brushing and flossing LOWERS the risk of oral problems, but doesn't eliminate them!

True enough.... I might have trauma to the oral cavity and require an OMS surgeon. But that occurrence is so rare that it hardly warrants consideration.

Does brushing/flossing perfectly eliminate EVERYTHING? No, but it lowers risks to about 5% or less.

Futhermore, people DON'T brush and floss! Are you living in a make-believe world? So, regardless of what brushing and flossing would do, it doesn't matter, because the public simply does NOT do it!

I cant help it that there are lots of stupid people in this world. Still doesnt change the fact that 99% of dentistry is necessary ONLY because people dont take care of themselves.

The same cant be said for medicine.

Caries (cavities) are the #1 health disorder in the United States! So actually 99.9% of the population NEEDS to see a dentist or oral problems will result, which lead to systemic problems, which lead to a lot more patients being referred to MDs.

They only reason they need to see a dentist is because of their own stupidity or ignorance, 95% of the time.

 

[ULTRON]

MacGyver says,

The bottom line is that if people brush their teeth and floss, 99.9% of the time, they will NEVER need to see a dentist.

I sadly have to say that you're wrong here. Reducing a dentist's job to a "tooth cleaner" is totally absurd and disrespectful for a profession. Many people go to denstists - all my family have been to a dentist at least once. You may have been to a dentist too. MOST people in old age have to go to a dentist. See this BBC article

BBC Article

ULTRON

 

[UBTom]

Originally posted by MacGyver
Contrast that with dentistry, in whcih 95% of all dental problems are prevented with good hygiene.

BZZT!!! WRONG AGAIN, MacGoober!

Tens of millions of SMOKERS in the U.S. WILL come down with periodontal disease no matter how well they brush and floss. Then there is the high risk they will develop oral cancer, which by the way dentists diagnose (which of course you wouldn't know, surprise, surprise.).

Millions of DIABETICS will have significant periodontitis, caries and mucosal diseases like candidiasis even if they are assiduous brushers and flossers.

Millions of HYPERTENSIVES on calcium channel blockers will come down with gingival hyperplasia, leading to plaque and tartar accumulation even if they try to maintain good oral hygiene.

Millions of ARTHRITICS with impared manual dexterity will not be able to maintain good oral hygiene. According to MacGoober these people will get dental problems because of their "stupidity and ignorance."

Hundreds of thousands of GERD patients will have rampant chemical erosion and caries on their teeth even if they are assiduous brushers and flossers.

Thousands of Kids will get crooked teeth because of early/late exfoliation of deciduous dentition, impactions, and many other causes, which leads to difficult access with toothbrush and floss and consequently caries and perio disease.

Thousands of kids will get dark staining on their teeth that will be difficult for a dentist to correct because their PHYSICIAN had precribed Tetracycline before they are 10.

The list goes on and on.

Guess what? These dental problems have MEDICAL causes. And they constitute FAR MORE than 5% of the patients a dentist will see.

Heh, another case of MacGoober knowing zilch about dentistry making a total ass of himself trying to lecture those who do.

 

[comatose]

Why are you all wasting your time with this MacGuyver dick? He's just pissing you all off it seems. Just ignore him.

 

[Rob2005]

I say, let the bashing continue. If anything, most of us are entertained by this little feud. I feel sorry for the little man. You can tell he knows he is wrong, but he feels like a cornered, frightened little animal and feels obligated to constantly defend himself in his feeble attempt to hold onto the little dignity he has left.



And to throw my 2 cents in, MacGyver, brushing and flossing don't do much for teeth, what do you know. However, they do wonders for the gingiva. A great deal of tooth decay happens as a result of an indivivual's tooth morphology and the content of his/her saliva and the amount secreted. Added to that, there are a multitude of diseases that result in abnormal tooth formation and loss as well as gums that rot regardless of one's hygiene. Anyway, you're a barrel of laughs, MacGyver. Hope to hear from you soon.

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by MacGyver
The bottom line is that if people brush their teeth and floss, 99.9% of the time, they will NEVER need to see a dentist.

Contrast that to doctors--ALL of us will see a doctor at some point in our life.

Only a small percentage of people actually NEED a dentist.

I agree,

I thought the personal dental hygiene comment was absurd, and I can't believe someone with any medical knowledge at all would say something like that.

The mouth, gums, and teeth are just another part of the body, and diseases of the body can manifest themselves without any control from an individual. I don't care how much one brushes, flosses, exercise, eat right, etc., etc., he/she is still succeptible to disease whether it be from genetic origin or complications from other illnesses like Tom pointed out (diabetics, hypertensives, etc.)

Preventive care is not always 100% effective EVEN if it is practiced. As a phycician, I'm sure you tell/will tell your patients to exercise, eat right, and overall take care of themselves. Most of them don't/won't, but the few that do, will not be guaranteed to be free from disease. You should know that MacGyver

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by critterbug
I can't believe someone with any medical knowledge at all would say something like that.

I'd say you hit the bullseye, critter. Nobody with any medical knowledge at all is saying anything against dentistry--just MacGuyver

 

[critterbug]

And I would also like to point out the fact that dentists are essentially medical specialists since they concentrate on one part of the body. With that being said, I can see why more people will see a general physician in there lifetime as general physicians deal with the body as a whole.

Since we are talking percentages, how many people will actually see a neurologist, orthopaedist, cardiovascular surgeon in their lifetimes?

Even if what you say is true, that as a whole people frequent general medical doctors more than they do a dentist, does that mean dentists are not NEEDED?

With that rationale, I guess you are saying medical specialties as a whole are not NEEDED?

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by UBTom
Tens of millions of SMOKERS in the U.S. WILL come down with periodontal disease no matter how well they brush and floss. Then there is the high risk they will develop oral cancer, which by the way dentists diagnose (which of course you wouldn't know, surprise, surprise.)

Do I have to spell it out for you AGAIN???

Smoking is something people CHOOSE to do.

Millions of HYPERTENSIVES on calcium channel blockers will come down with gingival hyperplasia, leading to plaque and tartar accumulation even if they try to maintain good oral hygiene.

Millions? Yeah right. Quit making up BS. Thats a rare affect caused mostly by dihydropyrimidine antagonists. Quit making it sound like everybody on calcium blockers develops the condition.

You need to study more if you think that MILLIONS of people get that. Hell I'm not even a dental student and I know that claim is bull****.

Millions of ARTHRITICS with impared manual dexterity will not be able to maintain good oral hygiene. According to MacGoober these people will get dental problems because of their "stupidity and ignorance."

Again, you idiot, do your research. The kind of severe arthritic condition you speak of is rare. 99% of arthritic patients have medication to control their condition to enough of a degree to do a simple tooth brushing procedure.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Rob2005

I say, let the bashing continue. If anything, most of us are entertained by this little feud. I feel sorry for the little man. You can tell he knows he is wrong, but he feels like a cornered, frightened little animal and feels obligated to constantly defend himself in his feeble attempt to hold onto the little dignity he has left.

Oh great now we have some jackass claiming that he can divine whats going on in my head.

You should open up your own psychic hotline.

 

[Rob2005]

MacGuyver,

You couldn't defend your pathetic Coumadin argument, nor do nor do you contest my earlier post that cavities and unhealthy gingiva are inevitable regardless of how compliant the patient is with oral hygiene. Will anyone do another count as to how many times this loser has made ignorant, blanket statements?

"The psychic hotline?" Please.... Looks like comebacks or wit aren't your specialty.

Rob

 

[UBTom]

Originally posted by MacGyver
Many of your ilk still need to "know their role"

Yeah, our role is to lay the smack down on the ***** known as MacGoober.

Do I have to spell it out for you AGAIN???

Smoking is something people CHOOSE to do.

Whose dental problems YOU claim can be solved 95% of the time by brushing and flossing.

You have a nasty habit of forgetting your own words whenever it seems convenient for you.

Millions? Yeah right. Quit making up BS. Thats a rare affect caused mostly by dihydropyrimidine antagonists. Quit making it sound like everybody on calcium blockers develops the condition.

WRONG AGAIN.

Gingival hyperplasia affects 10-20% of patients taking Ca-channel blockers. That's 1 out of every 5 patients. Rare? I don't think so!

And by the way, it's dihydropiridine. Heh, looks like I'm the one who has to spell out things for YOU.

The kind of severe arthritic condition you speak of is rare. 99% of arthritic patients have medication to control their condition to enough of a degree to do a simple tooth brushing procedure.

More convenient memory problems, MacGoober? Simple toothbrushing alone does NOT constitute "good oral hygiene (your words)," MacIdiot.

There WILL BE degrees of impairment of manual dexterity, pain control meds or not. That includes ALL forms of arthritis, not just severe rheumatism.

And I noticed you have nothing to say about diabetics, GERD patients or children which I also mentioned. Being rather selective, aren't we?

Keep that "95% of all dental problems can be solved by good oral hygiene" crap coming, MacMoron. I like making you look like an idiot.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by UBTom


If anything, DDS MDs are MORE than YOU will be. TWO doctorates.

I will have 2 doctorates as well, MD and PHD. Please spare me your "my DDS is better than your PhD" bull****.

I have no interest in looking at peoples nasty ass mouths all day and inhaling their bad breath.

If you like that sorta thing, then go for it.

 

[MacGyver]

Tom Hong
Class of 2004
University at Buffalo
School of Dental Medicine

Whats the deal with posting your name and school on an anonymous internet board?

Do you really think anybody is impressed by your TTT dental school?

 

[UBTom]

Originally posted by MacGyver
I will have 2 doctorates as well, MD and PHD. Please spare me your "my DDS is better than your PhD" bull****.

Yeah? FYI, those dentists who did other postgrad programs before going into OMFS sometimes ALREADY got Ph.Ds, such as in public health, periodontology, etc. DDS, MD, AND PhD. THREE Doctorates. AND BOARD CERTIFIED.

Still more than you will ever be, MacMoron.

I have no interest in looking at peoples nasty ass mouths all day and inhaling their bad breath.

The only nasty ass mouth ANY dentist have seen so far is the one on YOU!

And why do you assume we even give a rat's ass what you are interested in, MacGoober?

You can be interested in sucking on sex toys all day for all we care.

Yeah, you like anonymity. I guess you need it to hide your cluelessness you so well demonstrated in the past 5 pages. Unlike you I have no need to hide.

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by MacGyver
I will have 2 doctorates as well, MD and PHD. Please spare me your "my DDS is better than your PhD" bull****.

Yes, but I bet I can STILL pee further than you

J/K

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by UBTom

You seem to have this mindblock that can't get around DDSes getting MDs. Sounds real mental.

Sure they can get an MD at the cost of 6 extra years. Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

Hell I could get a DDS in 4 years. Whats your point?

And you seem to enjoy hiding behind your MacGoober nick too (being as clueless as you are, I can see why). Unlike you I have no need to hide.

No instead of hiding you feel the need to proclaim your identity as if any of us care or give a damn.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by MacGyver
Come on man you cant compare those 2 clinical prevention scenarios.

are you really arguing that brushing/flossing is the same level of prevention as eating well/exercising? Remember we are talking about dentists vs ALL DOCTORS here. Who's to say that the healty eater/exerciser doesnt suffer trauma in a car wreck? Who's to say they have genomic predisposition to certain disorders? There are millions of diseases that have NOTHING to do with preventive maintenance.

Those same scenarios apply to dentistry! Who's to say somebody won't suffer trauma and need reconstruction of the oral cavity? Who's to say they don't have a genetic predisposition to disorders of the oral cavity? There ARE millions of diseases that have nothing to do with prevenatitive maintenance, and over half of them manifest (and hence affect!) the oral cavity!

 

[UBTom]

Originally posted by MacGyver
Sre they can get an MD at the cost of 6 extra years. Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

Hell I could get a DDS in 4 years. Whats your point?

Why the hell would anybody need to impress a clueless hypocrite named MacGoober who goes around making a total ass of himself?

No instead of hiding you feel the need to proclaim your identity as if any of us care or give a damn.

As if a loser named MacGoober cared or not matters?

Face it, you aren't important. Get used to it!

 

[ItsGavinC]

By the way, Rob was correct in his post. MacGyver consistantly creates scenarios (using his limited medical knowledge), only to find out that his mindset was incorrect.

MacGyver, I am curious, why don't you address some of those previous scenarios?

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by UBTom

Gingival hyperplasia affects 10-20% of patients taking Ca-channel blockers. That's 1 out of every 5 patients. Rare? I don't think so!

20% my ass. Show me ONE link giving evidence that 20% of aggregate patients on all Ca blockers develop it.

you're playing fast and loose with the facts here.

Simple toothbrushing alone does NOT constitute "good oral hygiene" amigo.

Yeah so I forgot antiseptic mouthwash and flossing.

There WILL BE degrees of impairment of manual dexterity, pain control meds or not. That includes ALL forms of arthritis, not just severe rheumatism.

VERY FEW PEOPLE with any kind of arthritis develop the kind of degeneration w/ proper medication to a point they cant even brush their teeth. How many arthritic patients have you seen? How many have you treated? Obviously not too many.

The bottom line is, your claim that "95% of all dental problems can be solved by good oral hygiene" just shows you know zip about dentistry.

Oh my bad, its only 90% instead.

Seriously, take those laundry list of conditions you listed and they comprise a very small percentage of all dental patients.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by UBTom

My, more convenient memory problems. The point, as previously discussed, is your insinuation that an OMS/MD is less a physician than a plain MD just because "their specialty choice has already been made" is utter absurd bullcrap.

You REALLY have a problem with reading comprehension.

What I said was that OMS know their specialty already so they dont need to know about things such as the factors affecting cardiac output or numerous other items that other med students need to cover.

Med students generally dont know what their specialty is going to be, so they have to cover the whole spectrum.

If you need me to explain that again, I can because its obvious you have trouble w/ comprehension.

 

[ItsGavinC]

MacGyver, I'm really curious as to how you would classify a plastic surgeon who ONLY works on patients desiring esthetic benefits.

Is he less of a doctor?

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
MacGyver, I'm really curious as to how you would classify a plastic surgeon who ONLY works on patients desiring esthetic benefits.

Is he less of a doctor?

YES. Plastic surgeons do their fare share of good if they are involved in reconstructions... but cosmetic procedures are mostly bull****.

At any rate, thats besides the point. People keep trying to make this about all doctors vs dentists, not psychiatrists vs dentists or surgeons vs dentists.

 

[ItsGavinC]

The always enjoyable Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine (15th ed.) doesn't mince any words:

"Certain drugs, notably the anticonvulsant phenytoin and the calcium channel blocker nifedipine, cause fibrous hyperplasia of the gingiva, which may cover the teeth, interfere with eating, and be unsightly. Idiopathic familial gingival fibromatosis may appear similar. Surgery may correct both conditions; change in medication may reverse the drug-induced form. The oral cavity is a significant reservoir for Helicobacter pylori. Uncontrolled diabetes mellitus leads to an exacerbation of oral infection, notably periodontal disease. In individuals genetically predisposed to diabetes, periodontal disease may also precipitate or exacerbate the diabetes. Oral infection has been proposed to contribute to coronary atherosclerosis as well as pregnancy outcomes such as premature labor and low birthweight."

So, nifedipine DOES cause hyperplasia (notice the book doesn't say 'in a few cases' or 'in minimal cases'), diabetes DOES manifest to a significant extent in the oral cavity and IS directly linked to periodontal disease, and oral infection is linked to artherosclerosis as well as premature labor and low birthweights.

Wow, none of that is serious. Brush those teeth and it will all be okay.

 

[UBTom]

Originally posted by MacGyver
20% my ass. Show me ONE link giving evidence that 20% of aggregate patients on all Ca blockers develop it.

you're playing fast and loose with the facts here.

Get used to disappointment, MacLoser. Read it and weep.

HERE: http://www.emedicine.com/derm/topic645.htm

And I quote: "The incidence of gingival hyperplasia has been reported as 10-20% in patients treated with calcium antagonists in the general population."

There's the ONE link you wanted, MacMoron. YOU LOSE. Again.

VERY FEW PEOPLE with any kind of arthritis develop the kind of degeneration w/ proper medication to a point they cant even brush their teeth. How many arthritic patients have you seen? How many have you treated? Obviously not too many.

You are an idiot to assert arthritis is an all-or-nothing disease. And you want to be a physician?!? Judas Priest.

YOU ARE WRONG. AGAIN. (surprise, surprise.) Arthritis causes varying DEGREES of impairment, MacBitch.

How about seventy-year-old's in my patient pool with arthritis which I treat on a daily basis? Have you examined their dentition clinically? Obviously not. They can brush, but they can't brush WELL-- And they have difficulty flossing. Which brings us to your selective memory loss again, MacGoober-- your claim that "95% of dental problems can be solved with GOOD oral hygiene."

Another episode of MacGoober making an ass of himself pretending that he knows something about dentistry..

 

[ItsGavinC]

So I'd like to clarify: psychiatrists and surgeons are NOT doctors?

Cool, I learn something new every day.

I'm sure all those psychiatrists and surgeons would be proud to know that you've officially disowned them from their beloved profession.

In any event, since you claim to have your MD, what school did you attend and where are you interning at? I'm assuming you are an intern because any good resident knows enough not to constantly put their foot in their mouth. A good year of pimping will do that to you, and you my friend, have never been pimped!

 

[ItsGavinC]

MacGyver,

How do you feel about the Cleveland Clinic?

Specifically, how do you feel about the Cleveland Clinic classifying "dentistry" as a "medical department" and "medical specialty".

Also, how about the Cleveland Clinic calling dentists "physicians"?

http://www.clevelandclinic.org/services/

 

[ItsGavinC]

Hmm. What about the Mayo Clinic listing dentistry as a "Medical and Surgical Department"?

How about the Mayo Clinic calling dentists "doctors"?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester/specialties.html

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
So I'd like to clarify: psychiatrists and surgeons are NOT doctors?

Is that what I said?

Please enlighten me on where I stated that.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by MacGyver

...to make this about all doctors vs dentists, not psychiatrists vs dentists or surgeons vs dentists.

So you've separated them into three catergories. Doctors, psychiatrists, and surgeons.

If they were the same then the argument would apply to all of them equally. You are saying the argument does not apply to them equally, therefore they aren't the same.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by UBTom

How about seventy-year-old's in my patient pool with arthritis which I treat on a daily basis? Have you examined their dentition clinically? Obviously not. They can brush, but they can't brush WELL-- And they have difficulty flossing. Which brings us to your selective memory loss again, MacGoober-- your claim that "95% of dental problems can be solved with GOOD oral hygiene."

Please tell me how you treat their arthritis.

I hope you are not a quack like the chiropractors are claiming that working on the mouth will relieve their arthritis.