Transitioning from Law to Medicine

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Hokie2Hoya

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My questions are for anyone who either made the law to medicine transition or has insight.

I have two years left for my JD and once I finish it, I plan on working for several years and then (hopefully) abandon my legal career completely to make the transition into medicine. Now, I realize that one immediate response to that statement is to drop law school, and get into medical school several years earlier. However, I have made a substantial investment in law school (and so have some of my family members) and I feel obliged to finish my degree and work for at least a couple years to pay it off.

So, for those who made the transition from law to medicine: Did you do a post-bac program? What did you do during your year off between the post-bac and starting medical school? Did you engage in many medicine-related extra-curriculars before starting med-school? How do you feel you compared to the typical pre-med student in the eyes of the adcom's as far as life experience, work experience and being non-tradditional? Should I start participating in medical volunteer activities now?

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I am making the transition from law to medicine. My background- I practiced IP law for 3 years in NYC. My advice for what it is worth:

1. do not quit law school. Law school is very useful in shaping your mind and making you more detailed oriented. Also, and this is just my opinion, it looks worse to just quit after a year-- flighty if you will. This can be a talking point for medicial school and gives you a different perspective. I would recommend taking advocacy classes your second and third years (also negotiation is helpful).
2. Yes- absolutely start having medical related activities. I would recommend EMT, hospital volunteer work, hospice work, shadowing doctors etc. You can also do international relief work on your vacations while working (you will have money when many our age do not).
3. I have done a post-bac program-- very helpful as far as I can see so far. I did it it CCNY- excellent advising and less costly than most of the other programs out there.
4. for your time when you are practicing and doing a post-bac program.... it is highly unlikely that you will be able to work for a law firm because of the hours while doing a post-bac program but it is not impossible. Particularly, if you enter IP law and say you are getting your patent bar requirements done. You can start these while still in law school. I know this sounds ridiculous to a 1st year but 2nd and 3rd years are much easier.
5. you could get a job dealing with medical/health policy while doing a post-bac program--- check out the department of health in a major city. They often hire lawyers. Alternatively, you could work for a think tank-- take medical mal law classes in law school if available.
 
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I was all set to start law school this Fall but some job shadowing and soul-searching has me headed to UPenn to start their post-bac this Fall.

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/CGS/postbac/premed/prehealth/

A friend of mine (we took the LSAT together and applied together) starts at Columbia LS this Fall and I don't envy him one bit!
 
[/QUOTE]Did you do a post-bac program? What did you do during your year off between the post-bac and starting medical school? Did you engage in many medicine-related extra-curriculars before starting med-school? How do you feel you compared to the typical pre-med student in the eyes of the adcom's as far as life experience, work experience and being non-tradditional? Should I start participating in medical volunteer activities now?[/QUOTE]

I practiced IP law (patent prosecution) in NYC and will start medical school next week. The J.D. has been a valuable asset that I believe set me apart from some of the other candidates. In addition, you can get decent legal temping positions during the summer for extra $$. I did not do a post-bac. That being said it is never too early to get started on the required pre-med classes or medical EC's. My interviewers spent lots of time asking about my motivation for switching professional fields; in other words know why you are contemplating the switch and that medicine is in fact what you want to do. Good luck.
 
I just wanted to thank everyone who has replied to my post. Your input is great and also very encouraging. I am somewhat surprised by the number of former IP lawyers. I am going into patent law myself. Maybe it is just that we can't completely escape our scientific roots.
 
Hey there,

I got my JD last year, and I was going to go into patent law. I can't agree with Vtucci more. I'd just add one more thing--Law school toughens you up so that you're able to handle the stress of med school. Instead of jumping into practice, I did a Masters at Boston this year, and it was so much easier to handle after having been through the competitiveness of law school.

I'd disagree with Vtucci only in that I'd go for a Masters, and not just a postbacc. VTucci might know better, since he practiced in the field, but I feel that a Masters will help make you a more marketable patent lawyer (and not to mention a more credentialed candidate for the partner track) if for some reason you decide to abandon your medical school plans. A postbacc doesn't give you the same advanced degree status.

My question to VTucci is whether a less than stellar law school GPA could actually hurt me in my apps this year? I'm scared beyond belief that it'll get me ruled out in the primaries.

Thanks!
 
Onescaredminnow said:
Hey there,



My question to VTucci is whether a less than stellar law school GPA could actually hurt me in my apps this year? I'm scared beyond belief that it'll get me ruled out in the primaries.

Thanks!


There was a thread about this recently.

Apparently you aren't required to disclose grades you get in law school.
 
SHUT UP!!!!!
Are you serious?!!?!
Where was this other thread? (Sorry, I just joined recently).

Did the person who posted that information get it straight from the schools or from AMCAS?
I hired this really expensive counselor, and she told me I had to disclose everything. Aside from that, it just seemed like the ethical thing to do. (Yes, I sense the irony--please refrain from posting lawyer-ethic jokes).

I really hope I didn't shoot myself in the foot. I added my law school grades when I submitted AMCAS last week.

Now I'm stigmatized for life. If I have to reapply next year, I can't omit the grades from my application next year--because they'll still have a copy of this year's app on file.

Any suggestions on what to do?
 
Onescaredminnow said:
SHUT UP!!!!!
Are you serious?!!?!
Where was this other thread? (Sorry, I just joined recently).

Did the person who posted that information get it straight from the schools or from AMCAS?
I hired this really expensive counselor, and she told me I had to disclose everything. Aside from that, it just seemed like the ethical thing to do. (Yes, I sense the irony--please refrain from posting lawyer-ethic jokes).

I really hope I didn't shoot myself in the foot. I added my law school grades when I submitted AMCAS last week.

Now I'm stigmatized for life. If I have to reapply next year, I can't omit the grades from my application next year--because they'll still have a copy of this year's app on file.

Any suggestions on what to do?


Relax. Surviving law school is nothing to be ashamed of.
You probably have much more maturity than most applicants.
 
Thanks for the support.. it means a lot. I just hope the adcoms see it as optimistically as you do--e.g. as "surviving."

I searched for the post, but I couldn't find it. Do you have any idea where/when it was?

And here follows my rant:
What's with the (mis)conception that law school is SO much easier than med school? I'm admittedly not a med student yet, but I took med school classes at BU last year. Don't get me wrong--they were incredibly hard, and the classmates in them were brilliant.

But med school (at least during the basic science years) just seems to lack the schmoozing factor and image factor that's present in law school, especially around OCI time. Law school required you to prove yourself on your networking skills AND your academic merit, whereas med school (again, at least during the basic science years) just requires you to prove your merit. OCI alone is a full time job. I can't tell you the number of med students I overheard around the hallways who said things like "well, if this doesn't work out, you could always go to law school or b-school like all the rejects who didn't get into med school in the first place."

Um.. okay, I don't know what the point of that was. But thanks for listening.
 
Interesting that you think of law school as having a huge schmoozing factor in OCI. At my law school (i'm also considering the transition but not nearly as decided as you), schmoozing mattered very little. Firms looked to see whether you had the grades or not and explanations for why grades were lacking didn't seem to matter much. I literally walked into interviews where the first word out of the interviewers mouth was 'transcript' and either they were impressed or they weren't right from that moment.. The very top students ended up at the very top NY firms, the middle at the mid-rated firms and so on. There were very few surprises in my 2L class--thus I'm thinking that schmoozing and kissing up to the interviewers didn't matter. I'm sure there were a few for whom grades were irrelevant due to family connections but I can't imagine that there are tons of those people out there.

I agree though that being a 2L is hellish due to a full class schedule, clinical/public service work, and OCI which is a full itme job. However, med students go thru a similar, very rigorous interview process where they are constantly traveling as 4th years during internship/residency interviews.

P.S. lots of med students like to think of b-school and law students are rejects who didn't get in and thus envy med students. I have no idea why, makes them feel superior maybe. I have no idea why they would think that an accountant or markeing person in b-school always had the lifelong dream and drive to be a doctor though.
 
For those who have made or are making the transition to med school, how did you decide? Did you always want to be a doctor but just went to law school instead for some reason--like a shorter education time? Or did you become disinterested in law and then think of med school?

I am so disenchanted by the NY firm that I work for, that I am thinking about med. It has always been in the back of my mind but this is the first time I'm thinking about it for real. I don't know though, maybe it is just this firm or this city. Nobody cares about anything except money, business, profits, and prestige. If I wanted to be around this kind of money-money-money attitude, I would have gone to IB straight out of college when I had those offers; I obviously didn't because I view life and working as more than maintaining a balance sheet that shows that you're more successful than the next guy.

Another question, people always say med has become a business, how true is this? If you have any frame of reference, how is it compared to NY law firms? I'd imagine people still care a little--either about patients or the science!?!? In school, I"m not bothered and actually like being around competitive students who only care about grades cause I understand the importance of that for residency. But I'm asking about the prevailing attitude in various areas of med, do students say 'I have to go into derm cause I can make millions' or 'I would never do FP cause I'd be poverty stricken'?

I was talking to a 3rd yr med friend about specialities and he has always boasted about how he will be a neurosurgeon and now based on scores that doesn't look possible. He was talking and said 'what other type of surgery is there.' I mentioned quite a few included general surgery and he laughed and said 'do you want me to be poor!!?!' This leads me to believe that the attitude is completely money driven.

Any thoughts?
 
AJ 725--you are right, it definitely has to do with grades mostly. But I don't know--at my school, there were so many surprises during OCI. People who had not so great grades, but who networked well (e.g. me) managed to get great offers at boutique patent law firms--but that took a LOT of work and a lot of independent networking away from OCI. To be honest, most of the firms accepted only 20% of our class via OCI, so most students had to go through their own rigorous job search while dealing with classes and moot court, e.t.c. (Although, my school is located in an area saturated with other top-10 law schools, so that might add to the competetiveness I felt).

As far as why I chose to make the transition, the reasons were myriad.

It helped that med school had always been in the back of my mind. In undergrad, I'd wanted to go to med school, but my grades were bad. But it helped that I was also interested in law, so I decided to go to law school. My interest in law was rooted in a lot of wrong reasons at the time though--I liked politics, the tech boom was all the rage and patent firms were snapping people up and hiking salaries. What I learned is that money alone won't fulfill you.

When I got to law school, I started feeling really unfulfilled, both academically and personally. I didn't work for years like others have, but I did summer. And I felt like I was just working to make corporations more money.

And I didn't have personal contact with the people I was helping--only partners generally got to know the clients well. Summers and associates were relegated to taking depos and doing discovery, or sitting in the office drafting motions. I wanted a career where I had more personal contact with the people I helped.

I tried to address these feelings by trying to get involved with clinics and more public interest child healthcare advocacy. But I noticed something funny. When I told a kid at clinic that I'd fight with his insurance company or his school to get him the resources he needed, the kid smiled and was relieved. But when a doctor told the kid that they could make them feel better, the kid (and his parents) came to the clinic visit the following week with an even bigger smile on their face. The doctor was able to give a more fundamental, lasting relief than I ever could. I decided I wanted to be on that side of the equation--where I could give people really lasting relief from their worries.

So in the end, going to law school was invaluable because it really refined my reasons for wanting to go to med school. I began to look at jobs not just as things you do during the day to make money, but rather as something you needed to find fulfilmment and personal satisfaction in.

I know going to med school is NOT going to make me money. And my choice of specialty is not dictatted by money concerns. I've shadowed physicians (even those in subspecialties) who basically are collecting eight cents on the dollar. Insurance companies simply aren't paying up these days. Every day, medical and medicare seem to write little notes on the EOB's (explanation of benefits) that say "due to recent changes to the reimbursement laws, your reimbursements will be going down effective ___ date.) And going to work for an HMO isn't any better, because although you get paid, your freedom to practice and diagnose as you see fit is severely constrained by regulation. That's no way to practice medicine--there's no joy left in it.

If there is one financial concern that assuages my decision to career-switch, it's the job security in medicine. People will always get hurt, and you will always be able to find work as a doctor.

Medicine is very much a business these days. And there is so much regulation that affects day to day practice. EMTALA, MICRA (if you're in Cali), and HIPAA are just a few examples of the administrative complexity involved in running a practice. And between making the decision whether to join a group, work for a HMO, or go solo, there are major financial calculations to be made. You also have to negotiate rising malpractice premiums and workers compensation law. I just hope being a lawyer will give me some advantage as far as keeping myself out of trouble goes.

Based on all that headache, I don't think anyone in their right mind should be a doctor or pick their specialty if they're ONLY in it for the money. There are far easier ways to earn a buck. A good patent attorney can earn way more than a doctor can. And patent partners' salary ceilings are way higher. Even real estate agents are earning more in commissions these days that physicians. But you're right. I have met people in class who are driven to the profession for the money. I can only wish them luck.

(Of course, I should IRAC and argue the opposite position--some people are interested in both medicine and business, and in those cases, medicine is a great fit. And, some people have families to feed, or kids who have already gotten used to a certain standard of living--in those cases, financial considerations have to be taken into account).

I guess I didn't answer your question very well--I think you were fishing to find out how the vast majority of students looked at medicine, and not so much how I personally felt. I can't answer that well just yet, because I haven't actually gone to medical school. Sorry about that.
 
For me the switch was personal satisfaction, medicine just feels like a better fit.

It certainly won't be for the money, NYC patent law firms start at around 125k/yr., and as stated above the partners make much, much more than that. However, high salaries don't come without a price and in the end I wanted to do more than argue with the PTO about molecule x and why we deserved to receive a patent or why a generic drug should be allowed to market. However, as the law goes IP prosecution and regulatory affairs provides a fairly laid back lifestyle (compared to litigation). If you have the technical background (i.e. a graduate degree for the life sciences) and like transactional work it is the way to go.

Getting into medical school, completing it and doing a residency is a long process so make sure you are doing it because you want to be a doctor. In the end I realized that I would be happier as a physician than a patent attorney.
 
hi i am a foreign trained dentist who wants to go to a medical school pls help what is a post bac program guide and help
 
Wow. Thank you all for sharing your stories. As someone who has seriously considered both medicine and law, I've found this thread very insightful. There was another thread a couple months back that discussed medicine versus law more explicitly.

I just wanted to share a particular fact I found: while the job satisfaction of physicians has declined palpably over the last few decades, it is still higher than the job satisfaction of lawyers. Food for thought...
 
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