Wow, can't believe I read through this whole thing. I'm not going to comment much on OP. I don't like a lot of what's said, but at the same time people were too harsh/defensive in the thread for my taste. Good for OP for stabilizing their life and being happy.
Was there a particular year or time that people seemed to drop out or leave ?
Total attrition was about 12% in my class. Realistically its more like 7-8% if we don't count the people that will finish in the next year. Most left in the first semester, end of first year, or end of second year.
This brings up an interesting idea.
Do you believe we have a responsibility as providers to continue to contribute to the healthcare of the U.S. given that we are investments for the healthcare of the country? Will you continue to use your medical degree?
You mean the investment the US gives for us for residency? I'd think working for equivalent years as your training probably pays that off.
Not really seeing the investment for med school, except the money the fed is making off of our loans. They're getting one heck of a ROI on those loans, and without the residency they wouldn't be, so residency might just be a bit of securing their investment.
Maybe I'm a bit cynical right now, but that's how I feel at the moment.
It seems op left med school during second year debt free. That decision seems like a good one. I'm a bit into 3rd year and it's gotten ridiculously bad.
The surgeons complain about their life being hard, yet they expect the students to be there before them(5:00am), stay until they leave(10-11pm), and THEN do extra readings at home(which even the residents and attendings dont have to do). All the while they are making you do this, they also berate all the students and hold grades and evals hostage.
Screw medicine and screw surgeons. Their divorce rate and general reputation makes complete sense now. They are ****ty people and they get to take out their anger on med students. **** them.
It'll be fine. Don't take those surgeons so seriously. If they were happy with their lives/who they are they wouldn't feel the need to put everyone around them down.
It'll all pass. Third year was draining, but most of it isn't too bad.
Where she was headed, she would have failed if she didn't get help/change, but she was not kicked out. You need to do waaay more than that to get kicked out, it's actually one of the first few things I learned in the pre med process is that med school is not that mean, they actually really, really want you to succeed and recognize that's it's hard, and it actually take s a lot to fail out of medical school.
I just wanted to point that out, after watching the video it seems like it was....65 ish percent voluntary? If that makes sense....
This is very school dependent. Also, its way easier to be kicked out of med school than undergrad for example. A lot of schools I know of can kick you out for failing 2 blocks or for failing two major classes in a row or for failing a class while repeating a year.
If OP had multiple LOAs and 2 failed courses, there's a pretty good likelihood the next one could have been a dismissal.
...
Edit: Do med schools have learning centers, like UGrad schools? Yes or no?
Some do, but many are made up of tutors that are either your classmates or those above you as well as 1-2 "learning specialists". It's really hit or miss and quite variable by school.
At my school a lot of classes were adjusted at the end to make sure no more then 5 percent failed each time. so while doing bad was more then possible, failing was tough...
Yeah, that's not at all what my DO school was like. Fortunately we had things built in across the board that protected most people from failing (easier points built into a course or exam), but an across the board curve did not exist.
On one final exam the average was ~72% (69.5% was passing). The format was completely changed 2 wks before and it contained content that we were told would not be on it. We even went to SGA to have a discussion with the professors and admin. They refused to adjust anything or throw out the problem questions. In the end about 18% of our classes had to remediate the course that summer mostly because of that exam.
That said, on average for our major courses most people did fine (78-84%, with outliers around passing or in the low 90s) without a curve (the courses were set up that way for the most part).
...The ones that struggled didn't put in enough time or had something personal going on, usually.
Yeah, that tended to be the case, although most people did bad in first year, but managed not to fail.
Uuhhh...what? Did I read that wrong or is a small portion of the class supposed to fail?
( I know this is really premature for me But I'm so curious)
Yeah, whether by design or how it goes, a small portion of the class will always fail the harder courses. We even had a couple fail the minor easy courses, but those people must have not completed work or not finished questions or something.
How can they over recruit? I am pretty sure that every DO school has limited # of students they can recruit based on what is allowed by COCA...
Every DO school has a limit for matriculation defined as X + 8% expected attrition (either by taking time off, remediation, or dismissal). For example if the allotted number of seats was 150, they could actually take 162 with the assumption that 150 will probably graduate ontime.
...
Do schools can raise class sizes each year without adding more facilulty or facilities. And it's known at my school that they factor in a certain percent of the people which will likely not do all four years.
I get what you're trying to say, but don't make it seem like DO schools have zero oversight/limits. A class size increase has to be approved by COCA just like an MD class size increase must be approved by the LCME. It just happens that COCA
may be more lax about it (I genuinely don't know if they are as I don't know the LCMEs rules for class size increases).
Is the acceptance rate for medical schools ( like, total, nationally) sooo low b/c of the limited number of seats vs applicants? Or is b/c a lot of people aren't seen as fit? I always wondered that.
Both. There is an abundance of well qualified applicants as well as not well qualified applicants. The reason entry stats of both DO and MD schools have consistently gone up is because the stats and number of well qualified applicants has increased. That said, you still have a ton of people that just apply, like the person I met with a 19 MCAT and a 3.1 GPA. Those people may end up in the Caribbean or (hopefully for their sake) in a different career.
Please don't say stuff like this. I need to keep lying to myself that clinical years will be better. Otherwise, I'll just cut my losses here and now.
Its different. I personally liked the med school stuff more in 3rd and 4th year. There was a lot personally going on for me in 3rd year, and in general it was certainly a way busier and draining year, but I enjoyed it way more than 1st and 2nd year.
You can't just keep adding students to infinity. You need COCA approval every time you want to increase class size. Some schools have trouble recruiting good students, but let's not start the rumor that we are running a mainland Caribbean diploma mill
Exactly.
You would still be asking this question even with the status. There is a big difference between MS-1 and MS-4. So might as well just ask and then continue the conversation.
As for me, I didn't like showing my status. I got sick of the pretentious medical students (yep even the med student accepted)/residents who quote "you're just a pre-med" you wouldn't understand (said in a more condescending way to me and others). What bugged me wasn't so much that, but the fact that they didn't explain their point further so I would understand. Kind of like I was too dumb to get it. So I took off my status when I entered medical school as a reminder to not be that way. Yeah, I am still sarcastic but at least I will explain my point till some one gets it (or I get tired and stop commenting).
I think part of my reason for not choosing to show my status was watching you comment on the boards. You were rocking the "non-student" status while still explain things to people of all walks of life in a simple manner. So I decide to go the same route you did. I'm perfectly content with my status not showing and have no problem answering where I'm at with my training when asked.
Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of people that dismiss statements due to seniority without clarifying. Most of the time its done just to push their opinion as fact, when its often little more than their opinion, which is demonstrated by the disagreement between other med students and residents.
That said, there are moments in med school that you just have to experience. You can't really describe them and actually relay what they involve. The sheer amount of stress involved in those 12 hr dedicated study days leading up to Step 1, always being "on" and motivated in 3rd year rotations when you're there for the 5th or 6th (or even just 3rd) 12 hr day in a row, the stress of interviews and the match, the sense of how arbitrary it is when you get a glimpse behind the curtain at certain programs, the politics and people, the (numerous) moments of self-doubt, etc.