Urgent: LOR dilemma--advice needed

[Noctámbulo]

Nevermind, turns out it's not a concern.

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[ValentinNarcisse]

If someone is unwilling to write you a strong letter of recommendation, do not get a LOR from them.

 

[IonClaws]

So last summer, I participated in a summer research program, which was my first real exposure to research. In the process of applying for a scholarship, I recently contacted the PI to ask if he would be willing to write a letter of recommendation on my behalf, and his response was that he only writes letters for his best students. After explaining to him that I cannot go forward with the scholarship application without his letter, he told me that I can write one for him to edit. So I did that, and he emailed me back saying he sent the letter forward, with many edits. I am so heartbroken about this whole situation, because I honestly thought I had done a great job; there was never any indication otherwise. He even asked me what I was doing next summer after one of my lab meeting presentations, implying that I should come back again, and applauded my summer poster for being better than all other summer students'.
I was informed that at the end, all lab members fill out evaluations about each of their summer students, and that my reviews did not compare to her best students. I know that I never did anything to upset anyone, the poor reviews had to be contributed to the fact that I didn't really "connect" with the other lab members since I kept my head down, busy with work.
Also, no one from this lab was happy with the persona and attitude of the PI (he is a very harsh person), and my immediate mentor was so bitter that he left the lab right after the summer(perhaps he is the one who out of bitterness gave me the poor reviews; it was very clear that he did not want the burden of a summer student). I put in so much time to complete as much as possible in the few weeks (working 60+ hour weeks) and even presented my work at multiple conferences, so I was feeling pretty confident until he completely shot me down. I was told by the person who read his letter for the scholarship prior to sending it forward that my backup letter would better serve my intentions. I know that I have to ask him for a letter again when applying for MD/PhD's, but I don't know what to do or how to go about this. I am so lost. Please help.

It sounds like your time was not appreciated and that you should never return to the lab.

So where are you with applying to combined programs? You need to find a lab that you enjoy and that has a boss who you get along with and appreciates your work. That's what you will need not only for LoRs but also for working with just about anyone in the future, research and beyond.

I know we live in a culture that tells us we all need to learn to get along with everyone, but frankly, avoid toxic employers/supervisors/etc. as much as you possibly can. Doing so will only do you good.

 

[gutonc]

If someone is unwilling to write you a strong letter of recommendation, do not get a LOR from them.

It is best to learn this lesson now, rather than in med school or later where it can sink your chances at a job.

When asking for a LOR, you need to ask "will you write me a strong/excellent letter?". If the answer is anything but "absolutely, I'd love to" you need to walk away and find someone else. Bummer this makes the OP inelligible for the scholarship but if it makes you feel better OP, a crap LOR would sink your application anyway.

 

[Noctámbulo]

Thanks so much for the replies. This was just a summer program, away from my home institution, so I will never have to deal with this PI again. What should I do in applying to MD/PhD programs, which I believe require letters from all PI's? If I have 4+ other very strong PI letters(2 that I have worked with for 2+years and 2 from summer programs) and leave his out, does that immediately raise red flags/ ruin my chances? Should I confront him again about the importance of this letter or go forward without it?

 

[QofQuimica]

If someone is unwilling to write you a strong letter of recommendation, do not get a LOR from them.

Agree 100%.

It is best to learn this lesson now, rather than in med school or later where it can sink your chances at a job.

When asking for a LOR, you need to ask "will you write me a strong/excellent letter?". If the answer is anything but "absolutely, I'd love to" you need to walk away and find someone else. Bummer this makes the OP inelligible for the scholarship but if it makes you feel better OP, a crap LOR would sink your application anyway.

Agree 100% again.

Thanks so much for the replies. This was just a summer program, away from my home institution, so I will never have to deal with this PI again. What should I do in applying to MD/PhD programs, which I believe require letters from all PI's? If I have 4+ other very strong PI letters(2 that I have worked with for 2+years and 2 from summer programs) and leave his out, does that immediately raise red flags/ ruin my chances? Should I confront him again about the importance of this letter or go forward without it?

Dude, did you not read the two posts I quoted above and comprehend them? Do not, under *any* circumstances, ask this PI for a LOR when you know for a fact that he won't write you a strong letter. And certainly don't "confront him" about him not wanting to write you one. What do you think you have to hold over his head that would "force" him to write you the LOR? Move on with your life, especially since you have four other PIs who do like you and who are willing to write you strong LORs.

I understand you're a neurotic premed, and you're worried that somehow, four strong research LORs might not be enough. I'm telling you that four strong research letters will be enough. If by some chance you do get asked at an interview why you didn't get a fifth research LOR from this PI, I think it's fair to say something to the effect that since you have so many research experiences, you chose to get LORs from your four most significant labs. And then drop it, because badmouthing this guy isn't going to help your cause any, either.

 

[Noctámbulo]

Thanks, @QofQuimica. I did not mean to come off as stubborn(nor did I mean anything aggressive in using the word "confront"). Perhaps I am under the wrong impression in assuming that most MSTP/ MD/PhD programs require letters from all PI's. As a previous applicant to such programs, can you shine some light on this?

 

[gutonc]

Thanks, @QofQuimica. I did not mean to come off as stubborn(nor did I mean anything aggressive in using the word "confront"). Perhaps I am under the wrong impression in assuming that most MSTP/ MD/PhD programs require letters from all PI's. As a previous applicant to such programs, can you shine some light on this?

It was a summer program that sucked. What's keeping you from just forgetting about it when you do your application? Need to explain a "gap" during the summer between freshman and sophomore year? You slacked off at home like 98% of other non-neurotic undergrads. Walk away.

If you're going to have any success in medicine, research (or frankly, life in general as an adult), you're going to have to realize that some people just suck, others won't like you for reasons completely outside of your control and still others won't like because of something specific you did, but it's probably something like using your left hand to wave at them rather than your right. This dude was clearly a toxic a-hole (if your account is to be believed). Learn from the opportunity. Do not ever contact him, or anybody in or from his lab, for any reason. Walk away.

 

[URHere]

When I applied to MD/PhD programs, I had two summer research experiences and one longer (3+ year) stint that developed into a Masters degree.

Although I listed my summer experiences on my application, I did not send letters from those PIs. My understanding was that applicants should have LORs from all significant research experiences, and I didn't think that my summer research fell into that category. I don't know if there is an official policy in place these days, but it didn't seem to raise any red flags for my application.

I agree with everyone else, don't even think about getting a letter from this PI. If last summer was your first exposure to research, you have at least a couple more years before you will be competitive for MD/PhD programs anyway. By that time, the summer lab will be ancient history and I doubt anyone will really care.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thanks, @QofQuimica. I did not mean to come off as stubborn(nor did I mean anything aggressive in using the word "confront"). Perhaps I am under the wrong impression in assuming that most MSTP/ MD/PhD programs require letters from all PI's. As a previous applicant to such programs, can you shine some light on this?

For the record, I'm a PhD-to-MD (separate degrees), not an MD/PhD program grad.

I don't think you're being stubborn or aggressive. You're just being literal, and so you're not thinking about this situation logically. You have to understand that most LORs are glowing, to the point that even a lukewarm LOR stands out as "bad." The problem then is that even if it were an absolute literal requirement that you must submit a LOR from every PI you ever worked with even if you worked with 100 different PIs, you know for a fact that this guy's letter is going to be bad. So say you do go through with badgering him until he writes one for you just to get you off his back. When the adcom reads four strong letters and then sees this one bad one, how do you suppose they're going to interpret it? I spent four years as an adcom at my med school, so I'll tell you what we did when we had an applicant with one discordant LOR like that. We'd call the letter writer and ask what the deal was. That kind of phone call usually did not end well for the applicant.

It doesn't matter what the app instructions say; you absolutely, positively cannot *ever* submit a bad (or lukewarm) LOR for a job application. Fortunately, you have a plethora of other research experiences (including two long-term), and therefore several other PIs who will write strong LORs for you, which makes getting this particular LOR less important in your case. Again, you have so many other research experiences that odds are good that no one will even miss a LOR from this guy.