URM status

[Dr.Andrews]

Can I come to your pity party or is it a one-man affair? I'll bring punch.

It's not that I am pitying myself for working hard. I was trying to make the point that all people have to work hard in life, not just URMs.

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[Mixtli]

I thought a moderator is supposed to monitor a thread, not to persuade SDNers to actively shun certain topics. SDN was born on a breeding ground of gossip, news, and opinion. Even if this thread is beaten like a dead horse, it is still interesting to see how some such as PyschoDoc (SDN regular who never posts about AA) got into med school through sheer will-power and determination with or without AA.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Can I come to your pity party or is it a one-man affair? I'll bring punch.

i'll bring underserved people so you can help them out.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I thought a moderator is supposed to monitor a thread, not to persuade SDNers to actively shun certain topics. SDN was born on a breeding ground of gossip, news, and opinion. Even if this thread is beaten like a dead horse, it is still interesting to see how some such as PyschoDoc (SDN regular who never posts about AA) got into med school through sheer will-power and determination with or without AA.

what the heck are you talking about? ???????[

 

[Thundrstorm]

It's not that I am pitying myself for working hard. I was trying to make the point that all people have to work hard in life, not just URMs.

You've made several posts today about how it's hard to be a white man. Thus, the pity party comment. Seriously, do you really expect people to feel sorry for you because you're a white male?

 

[MollyMalone]

I thought a moderator is supposed to monitor a thread, not to persuade SDNers to actively shun certain topics. SDN was born on a breeding ground of gossip, news, and opinion. Even if this thread is beaten like a dead horse, it is still interesting to see how some such as PyschoDoc (SDN regular who never posts about AA) got into med school through sheer will-power and determination with or without AA.

The point is that this thread has been hijacked. People can blather on at each other to their heart's content about AA -- in the thread that has been created for that very purpose, or by PM, or with freaking smoke signals, I don't care. Nobody has to shun the topic.

But taking over someone else's thread to rant about your own issues and opinions on something that is at best tangentially related is just plain rude.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

You remind me so much of myself Psycho Doctor. It's like I've known you my entire life lol

lol (and if I'm sending kisses now...i already sent the hugs i really hope you're a girl, because i'm straight)

 

[Dr.Andrews]

lol (and if I'm sending kisses now...i already sent the hugs i really hope you're a girl, because i'm straight)

I thought you were a girl. I'm a man. lol.

Nothing to see here folks.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

You've made several posts today about how it's hard to be a white man. Thus, the pity party comment. Seriously, do you really expect people to feel sorry for you because you're a white male?

no one is asjiking anyone to feel sorry for a white person; likewise no one should feel sorry for a person who is one quarter URM and is well-off; notr should anyone feel sorry for any URM or anyone of any race other than asian or white if they are well off; AA has taught people to discriminate

 

[Dr.Andrews]

i'll bring underserved people so you can help them out.

 

[Thundrstorm]

The point is that this thread has been hijacked. People can blather on at each other to their heart's content about AA -- in the thread that has been created for that very purpose, or by PM, or with freaking smoke signals, I don't care. Nobody has to shun the topic.

But taking over someone else's thread to rant about your own issues and opinions on something that is at best tangentially related is just plain rude.

Well, sure, we've gotten off topic, but to be fair, the OP's question was addressed at length, and he has yet to respond to the relevant comments. It's not as though thread topics never change over time. Although, yes, this is certainly a dead horse. Unfortunately, someone on sdn will always try to make sure they've killed it dead.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

What I want to know is this: if you all care so much about this issue, why is it too much trouble to talk about it in the place specifically designed for that discussion, instead of crapping all over other people's threads?

his original question is so closely related to AA.

ok, OP, if you are only one quarter hispanic and are well off as you said, i think you are taking advantage of the system to check off the box; so i voter no. sometimes it backfires b/c adcoms will know you are looking for the advantage and may consider you dishonest.

 

[Thundrstorm]

no one is asjiking anyone to feel sorry for a white person; likewise no one should feel sorry for a person who is one quarter URM and is well-off; notr should anyone feel sorry for any URM or anyone of any race other than asian or white if they are well off; AA has taught people to discriminate

Why else would he be posting things like "It's tough to be a white guy" if he didn't want sympathy? And I hate to break it to you, but discrimination certainly didn't begin with AA.

 

[Dr.Andrews]

no one is asjiking anyone to feel sorry for a white person; likewise no one should feel sorry for a person who is one quarter URM and is well-off; notr should anyone feel sorry for any URM or anyone of any race other than asian or white if they are well off; AA has taught people to discriminate

Yeah. I think it would make things ALOT better if affirmative action was based on your level of income, not on race/ethnicity.

That way, the people who are 1/16 URM and who grew up in suburbs can't abuse the system.

I honestly believe that AA had good intentions to help out people who need some help, and I think if AA is going to be continued, it should be based on income/financial need.

 

[neutropenic]

Check the box.

It's how "you" see "you." It's not like they will ask for a family tree.

After all how many times is Bill Richardson touted as America's only Hispanic governor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Richardson_(politician)

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I thought you were a girl. I'm a man. lol.

Nothing to see here folks.

uh oh; hey i checked your profile which said nothing; mine at least says i'm a guy. that's why at the very least people should indicate their sex

 

[MollyMalone]

Well, sure, we've gotten off topic, but to be fair, the OP's question was addressed at length, and he has yet to respond to the relevant comments. It's not as though thread topics never change over time. Although, yes, this is certainly a dead horse. Unfortunately, someone on sdn will always try to make sure they've killed it dead.

I'm guessing that the OP hasn't responded precisely because the thread has been hijacked. He/she made a specific request for you all to stop, you know. It just seems totally rude to me not to respect that request, especially when there are plenty of other places to talk about this stuff.

Admittedly, no one is breaking any rules by going off-topic. I'm simply expressing my opinion, same as you all are.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Yeah. I think it would make things ALOT better if affirmative action was based on your level of income, not on race/ethnicity.

That way, the people who are 1/16 URM and who grew up in suburbs can't abuse the system.

I honestly believe that AA had good intentions to help out people who need some help, and I think if AA is going to be continued, it should be based on income/financial need.

that is what AA was intended for, but it stagnated in defining race and thereby encouraging racism. I would fully support an AA system based on economic level

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Why else would he be posting things like "It's tough to be a white guy" if he didn't want sympathy? And I hate to break it to you, but discrimination certainly didn't begin with AA.

of course it didn't, but AA was designed to help those previously discriminated against. Unfortunately it backfired and encouraged racism.

 

[Mixtli]

The point is that this thread has been hijacked. People can blather on at each other to their heart's content about AA -- in the thread that has been created for that very purpose, or by PM, or with freaking smoke signals, I don't care. Nobody has to shun the topic.

But taking over someone else's thread to rant about your own issues and opinions on something that is at best tangentially related is just plain rude.

I don't think anybody hijacked this thread on purpose if the thread's title is "URM status": a pandora's box. Many threads turn out differently than the first posting. One can be kicked off SDN for personal threats, insults, attacks but off-topic, small-talk is the bread and butter of SDN. Though it is rude to hijack a thread, there are too many threads like this one for the moderator to prevent from being hijacked.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

You know Psycho, I don't mind it, and I actually think it's a good idea to encourage people from URMs to apply to medical school. I see nothing wrong with going out into the community and encouraging people from URMs to give medicine a shot.

But I don't think they should be given preference in the admissions policies. Would you agree that ecouraging URMs to apply is a good idea?

Of course it's a good idea, as it is for those in impoverished communities. we need to fix the problem at it's root, that is to give better education to low income areas, not to give advantages because we failed in the first place.

 

[Thundrstorm]

If this thread hadn't been "hijacked" it would have died by now anyway. The question was answered on the first page or 2, and that's that.

 

[Dr.Andrews]

of course it didn'ty, but AA was designed to help those previously discriminated against. Unfortunately it backfired and encouraged racism.

In order to remove racism from society, you can't use racism to punish the people who were originally racists. People get angry and start thinking, "My son/daughter/friend would've gotten accepted if it wasn't for AA." Whether their son/daughter/friend was good enough or not won't even cross their mind. All they will think about is how someone from a URM got in and they didn't.

In order to remove racism from society, you should use "color blind" admissions. In other words, don't use race as an admission policy at all, and over time, racism will slowly disappear.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

In order to remove racism from society, you can't use racism to punish the people who were originally racists. People get angry and start thinking, "My son/daughter/friend would've gotten accepted if it wasn't for AA." Whether their son/daughter/friend was good enough or not won't even cross their mind. All they will think about is how someone from a URM got in and they didn't.

In order to remove racism from society, you should use "color blind" admissions. In other words, don't use race as an admission policy at all, and over time, racism will slowly disappear.

of course, but that's just too simple that people don't see it. The problem is when a URM made it to a school by their own assets, people always wonder if they got in due to AA, which really hurts them in the long run.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

If this thread hadn't been "hijacked" it would have died by now anyway. The question was answered on the first page or 2, and that's that.

so true, i'd say page one post 6. he should have made a poll if he really wanted an opinion.

 

[Thundrstorm]

... don't use race as an admission policy at all, and over time, racism will slowly disappear.

 

[aliziry]

There is admission based on income thats why there a disadvantaged section. Come on people.

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

In order to remove racism from society, you can't use racism to punish the people who were originally racists. People get angry and start thinking, "My son/daughter/friend would've gotten accepted if it wasn't for AA." Whether their son/daughter/friend was good enough or not won't even cross their mind. All they will think about is how someone from a URM got in and they didn't.

In order to remove racism from society, you should use "color blind" admissions. In other words, don't use race as an admission policy at all, and over time, racism will slowly disappear.

they tried that in brazil and it did not work too well... Now they practice AA over there...

 

[Avalanche21]

In order to remove racism from society, you should use "color blind" admissions. In other words, don't use race as an admission policy at all, and over time, racism will slowly disappear.

Oh wow. I don't care if people believe AA is right or wrong, I think it has elements of both...but what you said is quite a naive statement. I'm not trying to put you down here, but I think you need to think about what you just said. You think that racism will disappear if it's not involved in admissions policy? That's interesting.

This color-blindness theory is actually what some people say. They figure they should see people regardless of color. This has a few flaws. First, some black people want to be seen as black...because they are black. Second, isn't it pretty convenient for you, as a white male (correct me if I'm wrong here) to just say that we should all be colorblind, so we can just pretend that the problem will go away. Third, no one is saying you didn't work hard. I'm sure you did. Ithink this is where a lot of people get upset. I'm sure there are tons of white people that work hard...but you can't claim that you got where you are strickly on your own. Luck plays a larger factor than many people acknowledge. I'm very serious when I say you should read a book on white privilege. I wrote a research paper on it this past semester for one of my classes and it's quite enlightening.

 

[Dr.Andrews]

of course, but that's just too simple that people don't see it. The problem is when a URM made it to a school by their own assets, people always wonder if they got in due to AA, which really hurts them in the long run.

I agree. Let's say a URM got into a great school like Yale. People will automatically think they got in because they are a URM, and not because they earned their spot.This is ultimately detrimental to them.

Whereas, if a URM got into Yale and there was no AA, then people wouldn't automatically assume they got in because they're black/spanish.

 

[Stats_A9]

Hi, I have a similar question as the OP and would really appreciate some input please. My mother is Hispanic (Mexican American) and my father is Caucasian (French descent). I was thinking of checking off Mexican American on my application. Technically, I am not white according to different forms I've completed over the years; Hispanic is often considered "non-white." Well, honestly, I don't know what I consider myself. Biracial? I've always been in limbo about this aspect of my identity. I grew up amongst my mother's family, not my father's, but don't know how (or why) that would factor in. My mother's family never accepted me as "one of them" (since, unlike them, I am pale skinned). Growing up, others (non-family) have typically perceived me as white, although I sometimes would receive comments about looking "unique" or "ethnic." Physical appearance should not dictate one's race I understand, but I thought I'd include that info anyway. Also, what is the difference between race and ethnicity? My apologies if that is an inane question, but I really do not understand.

P.S. For what it's worth, my name (first, middle, and last) is very French.

Thank you for reading and for any input.

 

[Avalanche21]

Out of respect for the OP, please post any further comments on AA (those that aren't related to the original topic) here. This is in the everyone forum where it might be better placed.

 

[velo]

I agree. Let's say a URM got into a great school like Yale. People will automatically think they got in because they are a URM, and not because they earned their spot.This is ultimately detrimental to them.

Whereas, if a URM got into Yale and there was no AA, then people wouldn't automatically assume they got in because they're black/spanish.

I don't agree that AA should be removed because I think if it is URMs will become even more scarce in medicine--not because of overt racisim I don't think but because they're already under-represented in the applicant pool, remove an incentive to accept the few who apply and the numbers will drop even further.

However, I do think AA does unforseen damage. For example. Lets say you have 10 applicants for a med school spot, 9 white and 1 black. Let's further assume that the two most qualified applicants are one of the white applicants and the black applicant. If there were no AA, 50% of the time you'd let in the white guy, 50% the black guy--it would come down to a cointoss or some intangible quality. But all 10 applicants would go away feeling as though the decision was based largely on merit.

Now, lets imagine the same situation with AA added to the mix. You still narrow it down to the white guy and the black guy, now the only difference is 90% of the time you let the URM in. You haven't changed anything about the quality of the applicants, but in this example I assure you 9 white guys go away feeling that they've been cheated by the system. 8 of them don't realize that they wouldn't have gotten in anyway, they just know the black applicant had a leg up and that's probably why he was picked. It damages race relations for all 10 people, even though only 1 was technically "screwed."

 

[Avalanche21]

Hi, I have a similar question as the OP and would really appreciate some input please. My mother is Hispanic (Mexican American) and my father is Caucasian (French descent). I was thinking of checking off Mexican American on my application. Technically, I am not white according to different forms I've completed over the years; Hispanic is often considered "non-white." Well, honestly, I don't know what I consider myself. Biracial? I've always been in limbo about this aspect of my identity. I grew up amongst my mother's family, not my father's, but don't know how (or why) that would factor in. My mother's family never accepted me as "one of them" (since, unlike them, I am pale skinned). Growing up, others (non-family) have typically perceived me as white, although I sometimes would receive comments about looking "unique" or "ethnic." Physical appearance should not dictate one's race I understand, but I thought I'd include that info anyway. Also, what is the difference between race and ethnicity? My apologies if that is an inane question, but I really do not understand.

P.S. For what it's worth, my name (first, middle, and last) is very French.

Thank you for reading and for any input.

These questions are difficult to answer because you are really the best judge. Don't go off of physical appearances. Names shouldn't count. One of mine is hispanic but I consider myself anything but hispanic. Has your mother's background affected you culturally? Go with what you identify as. I think you guys are overthinking it.

 

[Dr.Andrews]

I don't agree that AA should be removed because I think if it is URMs will become even more scarce in medicine--not because of overt racisim I don't think but because they're already under-represented in the applicant pool, remove an incentive to accept the few who apply and the numbers will drop even further.

However, I do think AA does unforseen damage. For example. Lets say you have 10 applicants for a med school spot, 9 white and 1 black. Let's further assume that the two most qualified applicants are one of the white applicants and the black applicant. If there were no AA, 50% of the time you'd let in the white guy, 50% the black guy--it would come down to a cointoss or some intangible quality. But all 10 applicants would go away feeling as though the decision was based largely on merit.

Now, lets imagine the same situation with AA added to the mix. You still narrow it down to the white guy and the black guy, now the only difference is 90% of the time you let the URM in. You haven't changed anything about the quality of the applicants, but in this example I assure you 9 white guys go away feeling that they've been cheated by the system. 8 of them don't realize that they wouldn't have gotten in anyway, they just know the black applicant had a leg up and that's probably why he was picked. It damages race relations for all 10 people, even though only 1 was technically "screwed."

Good example Vero.

 

[NotAnMD]

I don't agree that AA should be removed because I think if it is URMs will become even more scarce in medicine--not because of overt racisim I don't think but because they're already under-represented in the applicant pool, remove an incentive to accept the few who apply and the numbers will drop even further.

However, I do think AA does unforseen damage. For example. Lets say you have 10 applicants for a med school spot, 9 white and 1 black. Let's further assume that the two most qualified applicants are one of the white applicants and the black applicant. If there were no AA, 50% of the time you'd let in the white guy, 50% the black guy--it would come down to a cointoss or some intangible quality. But all 10 applicants would go away feeling as though the decision was based largely on merit.

Now, lets imagine the same situation with AA added to the mix. You still narrow it down to the white guy and the black guy, now the only difference is 90% of the time you let the URM in. You haven't changed anything about the quality of the applicants, but in this example I assure you 9 white guys go away feeling that they've been cheated by the system. 8 of them don't realize that they wouldn't have gotten in anyway, they just know the black applicant had a leg up and that's probably why he was picked. It damages race relations for all 10 people, even though only 1 was technically "screwed."

That's so well put. I couldn't agree more.

 

[infiniti]

In response to comments about people expecting minorities to be dumb....

Sure I can't control what people think of me when sitting on the bus or walking down the street at night, but most people in my school or those who know me will probably laugh their heads off if you call me "dumb". This isn't to say I am cool and all that, but I often have to fight off the gross overestimation of people on how intelligent I am.

I do say that is a much bigger problem than people thinking I am dumb.

The ironic thing is that bigots (the type that think all URMs are dumb) are the easiest ones to impress. By just speaking coherently, dressing well (you get the gist) you've already turned everything they know upside down. The open minded folks on the other hand are more critical (rightfully so) of your actions because they don't have a low expectation of you. This means to impress these sort of people, you actually have to be smart!

There is no need to prove anything to anyone. Just do your best and let the work speak for itself. This applies to you, URM or otherwise!


...and for the comment about racism slowly dying out with the removal of AA, I think you win the award for the cutest post of the day. Seriously, that's the cutest thing I have ever heard .

 

[NotAnMD]

One thing that really bothers me about these threads (which, unlike this one, usually become dominated by AA supporters or conversely censored by the mods) is the prevalence of circular logic...

If people are upset because an accepted URM they know has a low MCAT and GPA, people say "an applicant is more than just numbers, adcoms are looking at the whole package"

But if a non-urm is upset because they feel like they are personally at a disadvantage, the same people say "quit bitching, everyone has problems, work on your raising your GPA and nailing the MCAT"

 

[NotAnMD]

What I also find amusing is that people are always justifying AA retrospectively, to combat any valid criticism they face...

First its because URM's tend to grow up in more economically challenged environments. Then someone points out that not all URMs are disadvantaged and suggests an economic based system...

 

[NotAnMD]

Then AA is all about a URM's unique desire to serve the underserved. Then someone suggests more incentives for all to serve the underserved or perhaps obligatory service to the underserved for those who have benefited from lower admissions standards...

 

[NotAnMD]

Then, all of a sudden, AA is all about diversity in medical school classes and enriching our collective cultural IQ. Then, invariably, someone points out that there are many qualities that make a person unique, not just color...

 

[NotAnMD]

Then it heats up and people resort to throwing around the word bigot and calling AA detractors ignorant white guys...

...and all the while people just like the OP, who are 1/4 whatever and have no real disadvantages or ties to underserved communities, are accepting their legal right to check a few boxes and enjoy relaxed admissions standards...

People who truly believe in the principles of Affirmative Action should be far more outraged by this than anyone. It's your job to defend AA on its own merits (and I agree that, in theory, there are many). Don't just stand idly by and let people abuse the system. In doing so you both are discrediting its use in the real world. This is the kind of crap that really pisses people off. Not some kid from inner city Cleveland who catches a break on his GPA because he is working to support his family. It's ridiculous.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

Then it heats up and people resort to throwing around the word bigot and calling AA detractors ignorant white guys...

...and all the while people just like the OP, who are 1/4 whatever and have no real disadvantages or ties to underserved communities, are accepting their legal right to check a few boxes and enjoy relaxed admissions standards...

People who truly believe in the principles of Affirmative Action should be far more outraged by this than anyone. It's your job to defend AA on its own merits (and I agree that, in theory, there are many). Don't just stand idly by and let people abuse the system. In doing so you both are discrediting its use in the real world. This is the kind of crap that really pisses people off. Not some kid from inner city Cleveland who catches a break on his GPA because he is working to support his family. It's ridiculous.

I agree with you. However, when that person used bigot she was alluding to the fact that bigots do post in these AA threads to bash urms not that all those who are against AA are bigots. In every AA thread these individuals show up and this is what she meant. I believe it should be socioeconomic. However, it is foolish to deny that there aren't bigots who are against AA. Despite this, I'm pretty thunderstorm is aware that most people against AA aren't bigots which is true. It's just they feel frustrated by having a higher bar than urm's. Moreover, most of this anger is directed at wealthy urm's. Most ghetto kids don't even make it out of high school let alone applying to med school. So it's easy to conclude that a lot of urm's benefiting from AA are abusing the system. Most people forget that the biggest benefactors of AA have been women.

 

[Dr.Andrews]

...and for the comment about racism slowly dying out with the removal of AA, I think you win the award for the cutest post of the day. Seriously, that's the cutest thing I have ever heard .

Your contention is that continuing to use race-based URM admissions will remove racism in society more than color-blind admissions would?

If you honestly believe this to be true, there is no point in even debating about this topic.

 

[Dr.Andrews]

One thing that really bothers me about these threads (which, unlike this one, usually become dominated by AA supporters or conversely censored by the mods) is the prevalence of circular logic...

If people are upset because an accepted URM they know has a low MCAT and GPA, people say "an applicant is more than just numbers, adcoms are looking at the whole package"

But if a non-urm is upset because they feel like they are personally at a disadvantage, the same people say "quit bitching, everyone has problems, work on your raising your GPA and nailing the MCAT"

Quoted for truth. I think AA is good in theory, and would be much better if it was based on income/finances instead of race.

Now, it just is a politically correct thing to do, and it results in blacs/hispanics vs. asians/whites in arguments which does no one any good in the end...

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I agree with you. However, when that person used bigot she was alluding to the fact that bigots do post in these AA threads to bash urms not that all those who are against AA are bigots. In every AA thread these individuals show up and this is what she meant. I believe it should be socioeconomic. However, it is foolish to deny that there aren't bigots who are against AA. Despite this, I'm pretty thunderstorm is aware that most people against AA aren't bigots which is true. It's just they feel frustrated by having a higher bar than urm's. Moreover, most of this anger is directed at wealthy urm's. Most ghetto kids don't even make it out of high school let alone applying to med school. So it's easy to conclude that a lot of urm's benefiting from AA are abusing the system. Most people forget that the biggest benefactors of AA have been women.

I couldn't agree more with this. I totally support AA to benefit ghetto kids of any race. But I also believe the gov't should be doing something to fix this problem at the bottom, get these kids out of the ghetto and provide them with a good education starting in kindergarten, so they will not need any extra push by the time they reach college.

 

[NotAnMD]

I think a helping people who need it is great; it's the right thing to do. I also think it's in America's interest to have more minorities in the medical field. But all I want from AA in med school admissions is a little accountability. Right now, I don't think there is any. And it makes no sense to me why AA supporters are so afraid of the idea of accountability. It would make AA in admissions much more legitimate.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I think a helping people who need it is great; it's the right thing to do. I also think it's in America's interest to have more minorities in the medical field. But all I want from AA in med school admissions is a little accountability. Right now, I don't think there is any. And it makes no sense to me why AA supporters are so afraid of the idea of accountability. It would make AA in admissions much more legitimate.

what exactly do you mean by accountability and how would you handle this?

 

[Thundrstorm]

Hi, I have a similar question as the OP and would really appreciate some input please. My mother is Hispanic (Mexican American) and my father is Caucasian (French descent). I was thinking of checking off Mexican American on my application. Technically, I am not white according to different forms I've completed over the years; Hispanic is often considered "non-white." Well, honestly, I don't know what I consider myself. Biracial? I've always been in limbo about this aspect of my identity. I grew up amongst my mother's family, not my father's, but don't know how (or why) that would factor in. My mother's family never accepted me as "one of them" (since, unlike them, I am pale skinned). Growing up, others (non-family) have typically perceived me as white, although I sometimes would receive comments about looking "unique" or "ethnic." Physical appearance should not dictate one's race I understand, but I thought I'd include that info anyway. Also, what is the difference between race and ethnicity? My apologies if that is an inane question, but I really do not understand.

P.S. For what it's worth, my name (first, middle, and last) is very French.

Thank you for reading and for any input.

Ah, the age old struggle of I'm neither, I'm both, somebody tell me what I am. I feel ya. Fortunately, I learned to sort out my own feelings on my identify as a person of mixed race when I was pretty young, and my self-identification has changed and crystallized for me over the years. I suggest you do some reading, talking, and thinking on these issues for your own personal mental health as well as for the logistical headache of filling out med school apps and pretty much any other educational or government form.

My AMCAS race classification was a little easier to figure out than yours because you have to deal with the whole Caucasian/Non-Hispanic box, but I'll tell you what I did, and perhaps that will help.

My father is black and my mother is white (Italian-American). My last name is neither here nor there since I inherited it from an English slave owner. Besides, you should never classify your race according to what others think about your name, skin color, or appearance. You reception in society may affect the way you identify, but don't feel like you have to make people comfortable by conforming to their assumptions about you. On AMCAS and secondaries where multiple check points were allowed, I checked off both caucasian and black/african-american boxes because I consider myself both. On secondaries where I could only check one box, I checked other. If there was also a separate URM box, I checked that too. I consider myself a racial minority in every aspect of my life, and thus, it was not a difficult decision to do so on my application.

So, my point is this: I always tell people who are confused about racial classification on AMCAS to be true to the way they normally see themselves. Since you seem confused about your classification, I think this is probably a good time for you to figure things out. You can always check 'other' and just write "caucasian, mexican-american" in the explanation line, and let the schools do with that what they will.

 

[SexyLexie729]

Hi, I have a similar question as the OP and would really appreciate some input please. My mother is Hispanic (Mexican American) and my father is Caucasian (French descent). I was thinking of checking off Mexican American on my application. Technically, I am not white according to different forms I've completed over the years; Hispanic is often considered "non-white." Well, honestly, I don't know what I consider myself. Biracial? I've always been in limbo about this aspect of my identity. I grew up amongst my mother's family, not my father's, but don't know how (or why) that would factor in. My mother's family never accepted me as "one of them" (since, unlike them, I am pale skinned). Growing up, others (non-family) have typically perceived me as white, although I sometimes would receive comments about looking "unique" or "ethnic." Physical appearance should not dictate one's race I understand, but I thought I'd include that info anyway. Also, what is the difference between race and ethnicity? My apologies if that is an inane question, but I really do not understand.

P.S. For what it's worth, my name (first, middle, and last) is very French.

Thank you for reading and for any input.

Hispanics come in all different shapes and sizes. You can be white, black or asian (race) and still be hispanic because being hispanic is an ethnicity and not a race. I consider myself a white Hispanic because I am not black or asian (process of elimination on that one for race). But I am Hispanic (ethnicity) because my father is Mexican and my mother is Puerto Rican. I am a URM because I am of Mexican and Puerto Rican decent (Note: not all Hispanics are considered URMs, just Mexicans and Puerto Ricans) I try to simplify things because it can get confusing . That said, since your mother is Mexican, I would check the Mexican box. I know that my father's family's culture is engrained in their lives and as a result, it is in mine too.

I kind of know where you are coming from. My mother is Puerto Rican but is blond and blue eyed. My Grandma is from Spain and considers herself caucasian because she is European. Even though my mother looks completely caucasian, she still considers herself Hispanic because her father is Puerto Rican, she speaks spanish, and Puerto Rican culture is a big part her life.

I hope that helps. Take care.