US Citizen thinking about Australia

[MagiTF]

I have a couple of questions about Australian medical schools.

I'm a US Citizen at a US undergraduate institution in the process of finishing my degree. Next summer, I'll start applying to medical schools.

I'm pretty competitive for American schools, but I'm just not sure if I want to stay in the United States.

What sort of opportunities are there for American students to study at Australian medical schools? How competitive is it for international students? Is there anything I need to do prior to applying (I've already taken the MCAT)?

What are the benefits of going to an Australian medical school as opposed to an American one? Moving there permanently is something I'm seriously considering. However, if I decide I'd like to move back to the US, what sort of roadblocks would there be after medical school?

I have a lot of issues with stress. I've heard that Australian medical schools are more relaxed and friendly. Is that true?

Also, if I decide to stay in Australia after medical school permanently, what sort of road blocks would there be for me as a non-Australian citizen when it comes to residency and job opportunities?

Thanks!

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[redshifteffect]

I have a couple of questions about Australian medical schools.

I'm a US Citizen at a US undergraduate institution in the process of finishing my degree. Next summer, I'll start applying to medical schools.

I'm pretty competitive for American schools, but I'm just not sure if I want to stay in the United States.

What sort of opportunities are there for American students to study at Australian medical schools? How competitive is it for international students? Is there anything I need to do prior to applying (I've already taken the MCAT)?

What are the benefits of going to an Australian medical school as opposed to an American one? Moving there permanently is something I'm seriously considering. However, if I decide I'd like to move back to the US, what sort of roadblocks would there be after medical school?

I have a lot of issues with stress. I've heard that Australian medical schools are more relaxed and friendly. Is that true?

Also, if I decide to stay in Australia after medical school permanently, what sort of road blocks would there be for me as a non-Australian citizen when it comes to residency and job opportunities?

Thanks!

The problem with a forum such as this one is that we really know nothing about you.

For example, have you ever lived outside the US before? Sure you are thinking that you would like to relocate to Australia, but what about your family, are they all based in the US, or are there some overseas? Do you have any history of depression? What sort of person are you, are you the dependent type that needs someone to hold your hand, or are you fairly independent?

All of these things are mission critical when deciding on something like this.

If you are competitive for US schools then you are probably better off trying for a US school, and completing your training there. Currently Australia is a lot more open to recognising American training (though you may still have to repeat some of it) then vice-versa. So if you graduate from an Oz school and do your training here you will have to repeat all of your training in the US (though you an still get a US fellowship, but then you won't be board certified - but I'm no expert on this).

If you decide to move back to the US after medical school you will be an IMG and therefore it will be harder for you to apply to more competitive residencies. So you will have to score better on your USMLEs then similar local graduates. Although you might think you like Internal medicine or some other less competitive speciality now, there is NO way of knowing that unless you actually start working in the field. It's even very difficult to judge as a medical student because you have virtually zero responsibility when attached to the unit. So if you then decide that Dermatology is the only field for you, it will be very difficult for you to then get a match in the US.

Right now staying in Australia has few roadblocks. You can get a PR fairly easily after doing your internship. However when I first arrived being a doctor didn't give you enough points to get a PR, so this could easily change.

 

[eforest]

What is it about Australia in particular that draws you?

 

[MagiTF]

To try and answer some of your questions...

You're right in that one of my largest concerns about potentially relocating is that my family and friends are all located in the US (with a few familial exceptions in Europe). I'm somewhat used to living away from them (opposite coast of the US for university), however that is slightly different than an entire ocean. My best friend has been considering relocating before, and if he does end up going through with that, that would alleviate much of my concern.

I'm pretty independent. I do most things for myself. However if I go awhile without significant/meaningful human interaction I do tend to get a little down (who doesn't?). I wouldn't constitute it as depression though. In other words, if I had trouble making good friends there, I think that could be problematic.

As for what draws me. Plenty of things. From what I've heard, Australian doctors tend to be much happier (both in medical school and after). They don't work nearly as insane hours. Like I said, I have some stress management issues that I think might be exacerbated by US medical schools or residency in particular (although, I suppose it could likewise be said that moving countries is just as stressful). I've been a few times to Australia and it's wonderful. The people are generally nice and open, the weather is great, etc. Plus, I'm getting sick of living in the US. I want to experience someplace else. One of my largest concerns about staying in the US is that I'll never have that opportunity to live elsewhere as a young adult. Medical school, residency, loans, etc... by the time I have the financial freedom to do something like that I'd be an old fogey

 

[dunmaglas]

To answer a few of your questions:

If you consider yourself competitive for US medical schools, you shouldn't have any problems getting into an AUS med school as an international student. As long as your undergrad grades are better than 2.7 you're more or less guranteed to get into Queensland if you've got 30P+ on the MCAT, although your chances of getting in are likely still high even with a lower score. Other schools would require more competitive scores, but that is also due to fewer available international spots (UQ has 100, the next closest is USYD with 55.) All you need for your applications is an undergraduate degree and a decent MCAT score, and I recommend you go through an application service like Australearn as they often wave application fees, or look into each university to see if you can apply directly. Australia has an application service (ACER) but be wary when using it, as in the case of Universities with rolling admissions like Queensland, your application will be submitted to the University ~September which will probably be too late to get an acceptance (I submitted my application directly in March and got accepted in June). Keep in mind that the academic year in Aus is ~6 months offset from North America, so make sure you are aware of when applications for the next academic year begin, and get your application in ASAP.

With respect to your reasons for going to Australia I'd have to say that I (and probably most people in general) have the same concerns associated with uprooting and leaving friends and family and having to make new friends. But i've done it before, and i'm pretty excited about the opportunity to not only move to a beautiful country but to make friends with people who share my interests and career aspirations as well. The biggest thing is, as redshifteffect mentioned (and you seem to be ok with the possibility), if you go to Aus you need to keep a very open mind to staying and practicing in Australia, as returning to Canada or the US and getting a competitive residency, while not impossible, is much more difficult as an IMG. As for myself, while I am considering the possibility of returning to Canada, I am more or less planning to remain in Australia, although that may change depending on where I perceive I have the best opportunity to get into the residency I desire.

 

[MagiTF]

Thanks for answering my questions.

I've been looking around online and I've noticed that the University of Melbourne is transitioning to an MD 4-year program in the next year or so. Would this require anything different from me? Their website says that selection would require: "At least one semester long subject (12.5 points) at second year level or above in each of Anatomy, Physiology and Biochemistry." I've taken biochemistry, but I have not had any anatomy or physiology. I've taken all of the pre-med US requirements. What else would I need to take to satisfy this? What do they mean by "second year level or above"? Also, how competitive is this school for internationals? I have a 3.8 and a 39R on the MCAT. Is there anything else I need to know to prepare myself in general in case I decide to take this course of action?

 

[Zuckman]

4 year MD program is the exact same thing as the 4 year MBBS. With your stats, I don't think you'd have a problem in getting into Melbourne. Just do good on the interview.

 

[MagiTF]

Thanks!

I'm sure this varies from university to university, but what is the housing like? Do most med students find their own lodging? Are there dorms or some equivalent? If they do find their own housing, I'd obviously prefer to house with one or more people to drive costs down... however I wouldn't really know anybody prior to arriving.

Also, what are the attitudes like toward Americans? I'm sure they get a lot of American tourists.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

If you are one of those Americans who will talk up the US while in Oz, you will make a lot of enemies. In general most Aussies are neutral to Americans, although on a uni campus there are many people who do not care for the US, they won't express it to you as hostility but they will often make bad comments about America, usually say the US is full of religious or gun nuts. Other than that you will be like anyone else. Very few Americans in Australia are like this. A lot of Canadians and Brits though talk up the old country, and that leaves a bad impression on many people. As far as tourists, I see way more Europeans, Chinese, and Japanese than Americans who are very few in number. Virtually anyone I saw who I thought was American turned out to be Canadian, who knows maybe they are pretending to be Canadian. I pretended I was Canadian in Paris a few years ago and it worked like a charm.

 

[dunmaglas]

Thanks!

I'm sure this varies from university to university, but what is the housing like? Do most med students find their own lodging? Are there dorms or some equivalent? If they do find their own housing, I'd obviously prefer to house with one or more people to drive costs down... however I wouldn't really know anybody prior to arriving.

Also, what are the attitudes like toward Americans? I'm sure they get a lot of American tourists.

I have no direct experience yet as I'm headed to brisbane in january. But the majority of the international students headed to UQ next year i've spoken to are looking to rent; few are interested in having to deal with distractions associated with dorm life. The responses you'll get will vary from students looking for single occupancy to 3-4 roomates. Some of the rental properties i've found in brisbane are dorm-style and can accomodate up to ~12 people, but few of the students I've been in contact with have considered it (too much potential for conflict). Cost will depend on the city and location within the city, but brisbane close to UQ campus is ~$800-$1000 a month depending on the number of roomates.

 

[anarchron]

4 year MD program is the exact same thing as the 4 year MBBS. With your stats, I don't think you'd have a problem in getting into Melbourne. Just do good on the interview.

They're changing the course. The new Melbourne model isn't exactly the same as the grad course. Either way, it's going to be very much easier to get into Australia as a grad student considering that just in the state of Victoria itself is getting three new medical schools that are totally grad entry only.

 

[MagiTF]

The University of Melbourne is switching to a new 4-year grad system next year. To get into this program, they state they require:

"At least one semester long subject (12.5 points) at second year level or above in each of Anatomy, Physiology and Biochemistry."

What would that be equivalent to at a US institution? I have all the US premed requirements (general chem, organic chem, physics, bio) and biochem. Would I have to take a semester of anatomy and physiology? Or a semester of each? Could it be introductory level or what?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

The new Melbourne model isn't exactly the same as the grad course.

The Melbourne MD will be 4 years long and will be an equivalent medical degree to the Sydney MBBS. Both are equivalent first degrees in medicine accredited by the AMC.

Admission requirements vary from school to school in the North America too. But an MD from Harvard is no less a medical degree than an MDCM degree from McGill. Both are equivalent LCME accredited medical degrees.

Just wanted to point that out.