US MD Vs. US DO Vs. (AUA, Ross and SGU)

[omgmd]

I am trying to make a decision if I don't get into a US MD program, what would be a better option. Going to DO school or going to top Caribbean school to get MD (Ross, AUA and SGU).
Please help me out with you opinions

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[Bro Dude]

I am trying to make a decision if I don't get into a US MD program, what would be a better option. Going to DO school or going to top Caribbean school to get MD (Ross, AUA and SGU).
Please help me out with you opinions

 

[aSagacious]

DO, by far.

 

[music2doc]

I am trying to make a decision if I don't get into a US MD program, what would be a better option. Going to DO school or going to top Caribbean school to get MD (Ross, AUA and SGU).
Please help me out with you opinions

MD ≥ DO > DDS ≥ Pharmacy >> Optometry = Podiatry ≥ NP ≥ PA >> Car Mechanic >> Used Car Salesman >> MD From "Harvard of the Caribbean"

 

[canadian18]

MD ≥ DO > DDS ≥ Pharmacy >> Optometry = Podiatry ≥ NP ≥ PA >> Car Mechanic >> Used Car Salesman >> MD From "Harvard of the Caribbean"

+1

this topic has been beaten to death.

 

[theseeker4]

MD ≥ DO > DDS ≥ Pharmacy >> Optometry = Podiatry ≥ NP ≥ PA >> Car Mechanic >> Used Car Salesman >> MD From "Harvard of the Caribbean"

LOL, the point is very accurate re Caribbean schools, but I can't wait to see the flame wars started over your other inequalities above, lol.

 

[gettheleadout]

This thread contains the perfect and complete answer.

 

[Bartemius]

MD ≥ DO > DDS ≥ Pharmacy >> Optometry = Podiatry ≥ NP ≥ PA >> Car Mechanic >> Used Car Salesman >> MD From "Harvard of the Caribbean"

I dunno, DDSs have a pretty sweet gig: great pay, great hours, no call and whatnot. It's really too bad they are, in fact, dentists...their only, horrifyingly major fault, really...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This thread contains the perfect and complete answer.

Empty link is empty.

 

[gettheleadout]

Empty link is empty.

What I did there, you're not seeing it.

 

[Bartemius]

GTLO, lovin the new avatar btw

 

[xBODOMx]

.

 

[music2doc]

LOL, the point is very accurate re Caribbean schools, but I can't wait to see the flame wars started over your other inequalities above, lol.

I agree. I'm now going to sit back and watch!

 

[mishaS]

This thread contains the perfect and complete answer.

Quoting only because of your awesome avatar.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I am trying to make a decision if I don't get into a US MD program, what would be a better option. Going to DO school or going to top Caribbean school to get MD (Ross, AUA and SGU).
Please help me out with you opinions

DO schools often look for DO-philosophy adherence in the applicaiton. They dont want to be someone's backup (even though that happens probably more often than they would like to admit).

I tried it that way and actually got wait listed at the DO school backup but accepted to MD schools.

if DO is still an option for you make sure your resume reflects it (DO shadow and letter). and DO is a much better option than Caribbean just due to the lack of licensing obstacles. DO education is far superior to carib. schools IMO, but the boards are the great equalizer so school selection has no intrinsic bearing on the individual. if you can pass then u are good enough by our standards.

you could also take a couple years to do MHA, MPH, science masters, grad school in general.... these things look good and can make the difference if you are on the cusp.


also, simply reapplying can have a positive impact. the schools pay attention to the number of applications and coming back to them shows you are dedicated. If you get waitlisted at MD and that is what you want then I would say take a year to gain some life experience and try again.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What I did there, you're not seeing it.

I thought you were genuinely leading them to Hockydude's thread on Pre-DO . I fell for your trapz.

 

[aSagacious]

I thought you were genuinely leading them to Hockydude's thread on Pre-DO . I fell for your trapz.

Could be worse. He could have Rick Roll'd you.

 

[Myuu]

What I did there, you're not seeing it.

Oh, but I do.

 

[AllDaWEI]

DO schools often look for DO-philosophy adherence in the applicaiton. They dont want to be someone's backup (even though that happens probably more often than they would like to admit).

I tried it that way and actually got wait listed at the DO school backup but accepted to MD schools.

if DO is still an option for you make sure your resume reflects it (DO shadow and letter). and DO is a much better option than Caribbean just due to the lack of licensing obstacles. DO education is far superior to carib. schools IMO, but the boards are the great equalizer so school selection has no intrinsic bearing on the individual. if you can pass then u are good enough by our standards.

you could also take a couple years to do MHA, MPH, science masters, grad school in general.... these things look good and can make the difference if you are on the cusp.


also, simply reapplying can have a positive impact. the schools pay attention to the number of applications and coming back to them shows you are dedicated. If you get waitlisted at MD and that is what you want then I would say take a year to gain some life experience and try again.

Actually I hear the Caribbean education is just as rigorous. The students are often the problem. Often there is reason they could not make it into a US MD school. If they have academic issues, like poor ability to study, then going straight to medical school in the Caribbean will NOT solve the underlying issue. Hence they get weeded out or never pass the boards. If they were reapplicants, they can work to solve the issue.

 

[NeuralNetwork]

Could be worse. He could have Rick Roll'd you.

I was expecting this

 

[tantacles]

Oh, but I do.

+1 do.

 

[Nymphicus]

I am trying to make a decision if I don't get into a US MD program, what would be a better option. Going to DO school or going to top Caribbean school to get MD (Ross, AUA and SGU).
Please help me out with you opinions

Where have I seen this before?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Actually I hear the Caribbean education is just as rigorous. The students are often the problem. Often there is reason they could not make it into a US MD school. If they have academic issues, like poor ability to study, then going straight to medical school in the Caribbean will NOT solve the underlying issue. Hence they get weeded out or never pass the boards. If they were reapplicants, they can work to solve the issue.

could be.... id like to see board pass rates and graduation rates before I believed that. if Caribbean schools are passing more students than are passing boards that, i believe, is indicative of the effectiveness of the curriculum

 

[ManBroDude]

This is what I put in the big thread in the Pre-DO forum. Stats calculated by HockeyDr09. Includes data as recently as 2011 NRMP match data.

What to look for: the very last image, which shows the match rates for

MD (NRMP), 94.40%
DO (AOA and NRMP), 89.19%
and IMG schools = 50%

Going DO is a MUCH better idea than IMG, as it's only a handful of percentage points less than MD, whereas IMG like Ross/AUA/SGU are all the way down in the 50%s.

 

[CopaceticOne]

What I did there, you're not seeing it.

I see what you've done there!!! Excellent use of a Ray avatar

 

[BurntFlower]

Use the search function. This has been said so many times.

DO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Caribbean

 

[Law2Doc]

This is what I put in the big thread in the Pre-DO forum. Stats calculated by HockeyDr09. Includes data as recently as 2011 NRMP match data.

What to look for: the very last image, which shows the match rates for

MD (NRMP), 94.40%
DO (AOA and NRMP), 89.19%
and IMG schools = 50%

Going DO is a MUCH better idea than IMG, as it's only a handful of percentage points less than MD, whereas IMG like Ross/AUA/SGU are all the way down in the 50%s.

The 50% actually overstates the real percentage, because eg US has a 94% match rate of the 95% who make it through US med school, while many offshore schools have a 50% match rate of the 50% or so that make it through school and the other hurdles required to even sit for the boards. So the real percentage at some of these schools, when you factor in attrition and qualifying examinations, etc is absurdly low.

 

[zma21]

The 50% actually overstates the real percentage, because eg US has a 94% match rate of the 95% who make it through US med school, while many offshore schools have a 50% match rate of the 50% or so that make it through school and the other hurdles required to even sit for the boards. So the real percentage at some of these schools, when you factor in attrition and qualifying examinations, etc is absurdly low.

Beat me to it.

 

[Camy99]

What I did there, you're not seeing it.

omg your avatar BAHAHAHAHA *dies*

 

[MIAYO]

What is an oxymoron?

Lol.

 

[flatearth22]

The 50% actually overstates the real percentage, because eg US has a 94% match rate of the 95% who make it through US med school, while many offshore schools have a 50% match rate of the 50% or so that make it through school and the other hurdles required to even sit for the boards. So the real percentage at some of these schools, when you factor in attrition and qualifying examinations, etc is absurdly low.

But don't a lot of Carib and FMG/IMG grads get offers outside the match? I know they're ending that now so it will be interesting to see how the match % numbers change as a result.

 

[gravitywave]

The 50% actually overstates the real percentage, because eg US has a 94% match rate of the 95% who make it through US med school, while many offshore schools have a 50% match rate of the 50% or so that make it through school and the other hurdles required to even sit for the boards. So the real percentage at some of these schools, when you factor in attrition and qualifying examinations, etc is absurdly low.

i honestly feel this overstates the case against Carib schools, at least the Big Four, at least as things stand now. The discussions in the DO forum (which featured current Carib students and what was for this topic and SDN a shockingly civil discourse) suggested that at these "competitive" Carib schools the final match rate into US categorical residencies was something in the 60s%.

The primary problem with the better Carib schools (aside from the huge variability in clinical rotation quality and the lack of administrative support for students relative to US programs) is the lack of options when it comes to the Match. Students with good potential and a CV uncompetitive for US programs, who have finally "seen the light" and go to the Carib ready to work hard should end up with a residency, but the options are limited. even the best students will have trouble getting anything remotely competitive. this situation will only get worse as the stateside enrollment expansion continues - I think that anyone is crazy to go to any Carib program right now. But current students at SGU/Saba/AUC/Ross still should have a fighting chance.

what you've said here absolutely goes for most other offshore schools, as far as I can tell.

 

[BurntFlower]

What I did there, you're not seeing it.

Boss avatar.

 

[thejoker10]

I don't understand why not all of the positions are filled in some of the specialties. Is there a reason for that?

 

[TreadLightly]

I don't understand why not all of the positions are filled in some of the specialties. Is there a reason for that?

Worse programs that no one wanted to go to or apply for?

 

[thejoker10]

Worse programs that no one wanted to go to or apply for?

So, there are still open slots left for caribbean students if they really wanted to just get any residency? For a long time I kept thinking caribbean students were at a disadvantage for residency regardless of the specialty, but now I'm seeing that they are just at a huge disadvantage for competitive residencies and they are totally fine in less competitive ones.

 

[TreadLightly]

So, there are still open slots left for caribbean students if they really wanted to just get any residency? For a long time I kept thinking caribbean students were at a disadvantage for residency regardless of the specialty, but now I'm seeing that they are just at a huge disadvantage for competitive residencies and they are totally fine in less competitive ones.

I think there are a lot of family medicine and maybe internal med spots left open every year at less competitive places that need to work to attract residents to their hospitals. In either case, it might not be super hard to land just any residency for IMGs, but most students don't want just any residency. The concern is for the future, where MD/DO schools are churning out more and more students and the number of residency spots aren't increasing. In 4-5 years when carib students are graduating they may be affected badly when there will be a ton of MD/DO students competing for ACGME residencies and there may not be enough spots to accomodate IMGs.

When competition gets heavy soon, they will be the first to get squeezed out.

 

[lysine9740]

MD = DO > Caribbean

 

[pietachok]

I don't understand why not all of the positions are filled in some of the specialties. Is there a reason for that?

For one reason or another all the applicants the program had ranked had matched to another program or did not rank that program at all. It can reflect many things -- a malignant program, an undesirable location, a new program that people were nervous to commit to, a change in program director that made people nervous, a single bad seed turning off applicants at interviews, or even a glitch in the NRMP match.

So, there are still open slots left for caribbean students if they really wanted to just get any residency? For a long time I kept thinking caribbean students were at a disadvantage for residency regardless of the specialty, but now I'm seeing that they are just at a huge disadvantage for competitive residencies and they are totally fine in less competitive ones.

The spots that are left after the match are filled by SOAP. There are still US MD applicants in the SOAP process, some of whom are very competitive but made a stupid decision (very geographically restricted, trying to couples match with someone poorly competitive, etc.), and so IMGs do not simply get to come in and take all of the leftover spots after the match, and the leftover spots are sometimes ones that nobody wanted for a good reason.

 

[listener23]

I know this tread is old but is Pharmacy really better than optometry and podiatry?

 

[darklabel]

I know this tread is old but is Pharmacy really better than optometry and podiatry?

Job market wise, no. I think Podiatry has the best job outlook since there hasn't been an increase in schools and the demand is there. Optometry and pharmacy has poor job market outlook and in fact are trying to cash in on the "provider" aspect.

 

[cerium]

Starting in July of 2015 the ACGME and AACOM have agreed to a single accreditation system. So MDs and DOs will now have access to all the same training programs.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/ACGME-single-accreditation-system.aspx

 

[MDforMee]

Starting in July of 2015 the ACGME and AACOM have agreed to a single accreditation system. So MDs and DOs will now have access to all the same training programs.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/ACGME-single-accreditation-system.aspx

I'm curious, why post this here?

 

[Psai]

Man there are so many good posters here, where did they all go?

 

[Anicetus]

Is this debate still going on around here?
In all honesty I don't think the MD Caribbeans are that bad. Everyone I know who went the MD Carib route (Given that's only like 6 people) ALL matched in the US into IM the last two years.

 

[WierdScience]

So, with the AOA and the ACGME combining their residencies, does that mean there will be more options for Caribbean MDs trying to match? Maybe they would have better chances matching into some of the less competitive previously DO-only residencies, maybe even some of the more competitive specialties?

 

[premed1001]

I am trying to make a decision if I don't get into a US MD program, what would be a better option. Going to DO school or going to top Caribbean school to get MD (Ross, AUA and SGU).
Please help me out with you opinions

there is no clear cut answer, it depends on the program and its reputation

 

[MDforMee]

So, with the AOA and the ACGME combining their residencies, does that mean there will be more options for Caribbean MDs trying to match? Maybe they would have better chances matching into some of the less competitive previously DO-only residencies, maybe even some of the more competitive specialties?

Actually, I think that the opposite is true. I believe that the person I quoted that bumped this old thread is trying to say that prestige of MD vs DO is lessening because of the merger; but, why I asked why he/she posted the merger news is because I'm curious if it will impact IMGs (caribbean grads, especially).

The lettering of the AOA/ACGME merger news is vague about what its net effects will be
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...e-medical-education-accreditation-system.aspx

 

[cerium]

I'm curious, why post this here?

I posted this here because I was once the pre-medical student searching for answer to the MD vs DO vs Caribbean school debate. I think that putting this information out there will provide a great resource for those students asking these same questions. Sometimes it is hard to find answers to questions if you don't even know where to start.

 

[moop]

GTLO, lovin the new avatar btw

Lol it's not new....