So how will making it PF fix anything?
Why would medical schools want to make less money?
It won't directly. But by removing the carrot of 'specialize in anything with good enough boards' that DO's schools like to dangle, I would bet the apps will go down significantly. That will in turn force them to either close down the weak schools, or they will have to step up their game and provide the kind of resources residencies want to see or actually open up specialty residencies themselves. Long term, pass fail is good, just like the merger. Short term its pain tho.
Not sure if I can jump on the PF step so DO schools close down wagon. Doesn’t fix the problem of a hard requirement of some sort of standard across the board for residency and the MCAT taking the biggest effect on residency placement. Should MCAT be pass fail also?
Yeah I agree with that part. It could maybe be something they get in by rank list time to assist PDs with rank order but again we agree that a PF step effs people for interviews and for knowing what they can do if step 2 is still gradeded. Funny part is al of our mundane ideas are more than NBME has come up with so far lmao
Unfortunately I'm just not convinced that they really care about our comments. They clearly only care about the articles being written by students at T10 schools.
All them schools padding their pockets
While i get what youre getting at here goro. This was maybe 5% max of my in school time (thank god it wasnt longer im not advocating for that), and the majority of what i learned was from bates online videos. A lot of the in class time spent on this was just supervised peer practice. Which im totally fine with and think it was the right way to do it, but it was definitely not worth 160k (and dont get me wrong i genuinely enjoyed most of my patient care profs). I could have a driveway full of teslas with that $$
You're lucky. These foundational skills were taught by peer learners at my program which just pissed me off. I received better clinical skills training (no joke) at my $5,000/year community college's paramedic program than I did the $65k/year medical school.
DO schools blow in general but our clinical skills class was top notch. Depends a lot by school. Also don’t let the midlevel lobby hear you admit this they’ll take it and run with it
I am fairly certain that if Step 1 goes pass fail, step 2 will as well. And Comlex will copy whatever Step does in a year or two at most. So I don't believe your scenario will actually play out. I definitely see this as a long term gain for us.
how is that better than leaving Step 1 just the way it currently is?
IMHO, unless the NBME intentionally wants to benefit some particular groups at the expense of everyone else, they seem to forget the phrase, "First, do no harm"
Research. Connections. A good governing body. Rotation sites. Residency programs.
Same with mine but it wasn’t enough for 50k. A good do school is still usually Lulz vs an average MD school
We are willing to pay so yeah
How did you end up here?
Since they are IMG I doubt it lol
P/F would be the death blow to IMG's in most circumstances.
400+ student classes shouldn't be a thing in medical school. Anywhere. Especially when your school has only a couple small residencies associated with it. These programs are leeches and very greedy without regard to students. And as they say, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. DO schools are getting pretty hoggy.that or just simply say NO to P/F . Why giving up the revenue of 400+ student class???
Schools with 400+ classes usually have separate campuses. But I see what you mean though
It would be cool if any of that happened. But this assumes that administrators who’ve never really done anything for their student bodies are all of a sudden going to do WAY more for their students than ever before. Opening programs and getting research cost time, money, and effort. The current people in charge have neither the ability or interest to do any of this. The likely outcome would be that our match rates plummet and our attrition in turn sky rockets bc we only want our best hitting third year.
They would need to produce home programs to solve the audition issue. In my opinion, admittedly a thought exercise, the DO schools would respond to increasing attrition by actually establishing their own programs and increasing the quality of education. I think they would and that would made the MD/DO thing mute. However, it is also pretty easy to argue that they would become the carribbean without much fight. I definately can see a large amount of administrators who are fine with that route based on laziness and apathy. However, I don't think AOA/COCA is fine with becoming the caribbean, and thats why I think it would go the other way. They are still approving more schools, but the leash is definitely tightening and the fees going up. They want the gravy train to continue, not stagnant and start dying like Caribbean is right now.
My school has close to 400 they have a separate campus but literally share faculty and stream lectures.
One of the specific reasons I did not attend NP school was the arranging your own rotations. If the quality of rotations is questionable now, do that and they will become way worse. Np rotations are generally just shadowing of another NP, I don't know any decent physician or midlevel who thinks those are good rotations.
