Usyd - Change of immigration status

[jerec482]

Hi everyone,

I'm in a pretty tricky situation, but maybe there are some people here that have been goin through the same thing.
Basically, i am currently an international student at UNSW and will complete my BSc end of this year. I was going to apply for graduate entry medicine at usyd (and some other unis) but would like to have a HECS place, cause honestly i cant afford any more international student fees.
the pr process will take me at least a couple of months, as a consequence i would get PR around mid year 2008...

My question is, if i apply this year and manage to get an offe for 2008, and obtain permanent residency after the offer is made, how hard is it to get into a commonwealth supported place? I've heard that if u change immigration status after being enrolled, you will be charged full (local) fees for the rest of the program, but nobody can really confirm this for sure.

The webpage says:
http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/futurestudent/applicant/internat/offers.php#stat

An international student who is granted Permanent Resident (or New Zealand Citizen) status after an offer is made will transfer to a local fee paying place if a place is available.

cause um yea...otherwise i'd probably just take 2008 off, do some work and apply as a PR for 2009. that would be the safe route, but maybe someone has done this before!

any comments appreciated!

cheers.

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[driedcaribou]

The short answer is no.

Once they have you paying the big bucks, they will be reluctant to make you stop.


Better for you to get your PR first to be on the safe side.

I know a few students who have tried this at USyd with no luck.
Good luck.

 

[Ezekiel20]

An international student who is granted Permanent Resident (or New Zealand Citizen) status after an offer is made will transfer to a local fee paying place if a place is available.

Each medical school is allocated a certain number of CSPs (formerly known as HECS places), since it is the government who pays ~75% of the fees so that the students only have to pay ~25%.

As you can understand, not many people reject offers of a CSP - the ones that do reject their offers are usually in the full fee paying category or the bonded medical place category. Thus it is quite rare for CSP spots to be available after you are enrolled. Students occasionally drop out, but are mostly North American students who got into med school in their home countries (and can save time, money and effort by going back).

If you can afford 1 more year of international fees, I would strongly recommend you do an Honours year. The headstart it will give you cannot be overstated. Unless you want to be a surgeon or a GP, research will be a vital part of your career development, and having done a full year of research before med school is an invaluable experience.

 

[jerec482]

thanks for your answer. i was actually thinking about doing honours, cause my wam is good enough and the faculty will prolly offer me to do. either way, as u said a good research experience too..
but the way it looks right now, i wont even have enough points to qualify for permanent residency (a physiologist only gets 50 points) and even with an honours degree i would be 10 points short of the 120 pts pass mark.

too bad i cant stay in aus as i've really enjoyed my time here.

 

[driedcaribou]

The headstart it will give you cannot be overstated. Unless you want to be a surgeon or a GP, research will be a vital part of your career development, and having done a full year of research before med school is an invaluable experience.

Surgeons in Australia are required to do research as part of their training as are emergency medicine physicians.

 

[Ezekiel20]

Surgeons in Australia are required to do research as part of their training as are emergency medicine physicians.

You sure love to nit-pick, don't you?

I said that unless you're a surgeon or a GP, research will be a VITAL part of your career development.

Sure surgeons do research. But how many surgeons do you see that are taking time off to do PhDs?

 

[driedcaribou]

You sure love to nit-pick, don't you?

I said that unless you're a surgeon or a GP, research will be a VITAL part of your career development.

Sure surgeons do research. But how many surgeons do you see that are taking time off to do PhDs?

I appreciate your attitude to help other people with advice but nitpicking is different from providing misleading information.

You did not say that many physicians take 3 years off to do Ph.Ds but how many FRACP actually do take 3 years off to do Ph.Ds? They do it to make themselves more competitive for fellowships in cardiology. The word vital does not imply quantity of research but that it is necessary.

It is vital for surgeons to do research as part of their career development and I do not understand why you do not think it is vital for other specialties like emergency medicine which require research to qualify for their specialty.

It is within the old AST guidelines.
"Selection process

The selection process is a national open ranked composite score process carried out in Australia and New Zealand, following which, vacant positions will be offered to candidates in order of national ranking.

Selection into the Advance Surgical Training into the General Surgery Program is based on:

1. A scored structured curriculum vitae
2. A scored semi-structured interview
3. An interview on selection day
4. Structured written referee reports
5. A scientific presentation.
"

Neurosurgery:
http://www.neurosurgerytraining.org/Selection Process Regulations.pdf

'
7 SELECTION CRITERIA
Applicants for the Training Program will be selected based upon the principles, application and
eligibility criteria outlined in these Regulations in addition to the following general selection criteria:

7.11 Applicants must have had publications, presentations or research experience, resulting in
some meaningful and tangible outcome.'

I don't know about you but that hardly seems like 'some'.

Emergency medicine:
http://www.acem.org.au/media/regulations/08_Publication_of_Paper.pdf
One of the requirements of the training program is that trainees either 1) publish a paper in a recognised peerreviewed
journal or 2) present a paper, either orally or by way of poster, at an approved peer-reviewed scientific
meeting to the satisfaction of the Board of Censors.



Do all physicians require research?
http://www.racp.edu.au/training/adult2003/advanced/general/variations.htm#research
"Research during Training
The College adopts a flexible attitude to the inclusion of research in advanced training. However, all applicants for FRACP should be satisfactorily trained as consultant physicians who are competent in the clinical practice of adult medicine whether or not their training program includes a significant component of research. At least 4 ½ years of the 6 years training must be spent in clinical medicine.

The majority of SACs/JSACs will expect that trainees spend at least one year of advanced training in clinical training in Australia or New Zealand, as applicable.

In principle, advanced training positions that are deemed as research positions should generally be accepted as core clinical training if at least 50% of the year is spent in direct clinical practice. "

 

[Ezekiel20]

I appreciate your attitude to help other people with advice but nitpicking is different from providing misleading information.

You did not say that many physicians take 3 years off to do Ph.Ds but how many FRACP actually do take 3 years off to do Ph.Ds? They do it to make themselves more competitive for fellowships in cardiology. The word vital does not imply quantity of research but that it is necessary.

It is vital for surgeons to do research as part of their career development and I do not understand why you do not think it is vital for other specialties like emergency medicine which require research to qualify for their specialty.

I've only skim read your reply because I started my acute surgery week today and just spent 14 hours at my hospital.

It's funny to think that you probably wouldn't have replied to my post if I had used the word 'important' instead of 'vital'. To me, the difference between the two is very minor - and hence I think you are nitpicking.

I was making a generalised statement that holds true in the majority. The undeniable fact is that research is much less important for surgeons than it is for physicians. You go and find me one surgeon/physician who disagrees with this statement.

Life would be a drag if everybody was like you, so that everytime we make a statement we must qualify it with a dozen caveats and exceptions. For example, if I say to a pre-med student, "surgery has long hours", somebody like you would point out to me that in fact urology can have shorter hours than many medical specialties if you study the statistical data carefully.

I did not even bring up emergency physicians - I don't understand the reason for your rant on an issue that YOU brought up.

I stand by what I said - unless you're a GP or a surgeon, research will be a vital part of your career development, so do an Honours year in your undergrad if you have the chance, because it'll help you heaps.

Sorry but I won't reply to this thread anymore - I don't have time for word games.

 

[driedcaribou]

I've only skim read your reply because I started my acute surgery week today and just spent 14 hours at my hospital.

I stand by what I said - unless you're a GP or a surgeon, research will be a vital part of your career development, so do an Honours year in your undergrad if you have the chance, because it'll help you heaps.

Sorry but I won't reply to this thread anymore - I don't have time for word games.

Acute surgery?

And if you read the thread, you would've realized that research is important for those wanting a surgical career (and even a GP).

This is not a matter of word games. It isn't responsible to give advice on things you don't know.

 

[driedcaribou]

Life would be a drag if everybody was like you, so that everytime we make a statement we must qualify it with a dozen caveats and exceptions.
.

PS: No need to make personal attacks when you're losing an argument or to construct a self-defeating argument. Please show me where I made a personal attack at you. You're not contributing anything to a discussion.