WAMC | 3.8 cGPA | 3.9 sGPA | 516 MCAT | CA resident

[neuroDoc8]

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[gyngyn]

- UCSD graduate: double major in bioengineering & physiology and neuroscience, minor in psychology
- first MCAT score: 35 (PS-13, Verbal-8, BS-14)
- new MCAT: 516 (PS - 132, CARS - 126, BS - 128, Psych/Soc - 130)
- ~50 hours hospice hours
- ~ 150 hours nursing home
- ~200 hours shadowing neurologist
- ~100 hours volunteering with para and quadriplegics
- 3 different research positions for a total of 1000 hours
- 500 hours part-time work experience - grocery store

I need help picking what other schools to apply to besides the CA schools

You retook a 35?
Is this your first application?

 

[neuroDoc8]

I was worried about my low verbal score

 

[neuroDoc8]

Yes, this is my first application

 

[gyngyn]

I was worried about my low verbal score

It was an 8. With a total in the 96th%!
It's too late to do anything about it now...
Where's your list?

 

[neuroDoc8]

so far all california and new york schools

 

[gyngyn]

so far all california and new york schools

All of them?
You should also be looking at OOS privates like Tulane, Case, Miami, even NW and Emory...

 

[neuroDoc8]

yes I'm trying to narrow it down and also open to others

 

[gyngyn]

yes I'm trying to narrow it down and also open to others

Show me.

 

[neuroDoc8]

UCLA Drew
UC Riverside
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UCLA-Geffen
Southern Cal-Keck
UC San Diego
UC San Francisco
Stanford
SUNY Upstate
Stony Brook
New York Medical
Albany
Buffalo
SUNY Downstate
Hofstra North Shore-LIJ
Rochester
Yeshiva Einstein
Columbia
Mount Sinai-Icahn
New York University
Cornell-Weill

 

[gyngyn]

Unless you have a validated commitment to the urban under-served, delete Drew.
If you are not from the IE delete UCR.
There are about 10 schools on your list where you have a fair to good chance at an interview.
Add a few more like the ones I suggested and you should get enough interviews.

 

[neuroDoc8]

Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[Banco]

Interesting that your score percentile came out the same from one exam to the next. Your verbal did improve, which is good.

Others to consider: Pitt, Case Western, Northwestern, Ohio State, Cincinnati, Vermont, Temple, Jefferson

 

[Goro]

I suggest:


UC Riverside
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UCLA-Geffen
Southern Cal-Keck
UC San Diego
UC San Francisco
Stanford
Stony Brook
New York Medical
SUNY Downstate
Hofstra North Shore-LIJ
Rochester
Yeshiva Einstein
Columbia
Mount Sinai-Icahn
New York University
Cornell-Weill
U AZ
U VM
U Miami
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Pitt
Baylor
Emory
BU
Case
Tulane
Loyola
Jefferson
And yes, 1-2 of the following: Harvard, Yale, JHU, U Penn

 

[neuroDoc8]

awesome! This really cheered me up

 

[WedgeDawg]

Honestly, @gyngyn, I would retaking an 8 subsection score, even with a 35.

I think @Goro's list is pretty good, but with a 35 retaken to essentially another 35, I would limit the number of schools that have a 36+ MCAT median. I think a lot of top 20s might be too much of a reach to add more than a couple. You have a very good shot at schools like USC-Keck, Emory, Einstein, Rochester, Hofstra, and maybe even UCSD/UCLA. I would also consider UVA and Case Western if you're open to schools outside of CA/NY.

 

[Goro]

OP, you can't go wrong the the 'Dawg!

Honestly, @gyngyn, I would retaking an 8 subsection score, even with a 35.

I think @Goro's list is pretty good, but with a 35 retaken to essentially another 35, I would limit the number of schools that have a 36+ MCAT median. I think a lot of top 20s might be too much of a reach to add more than a couple. You have a very good shot at schools like USC-Keck, Emory, Einstein, Rochester, Hofstra, and maybe even UCSD/UCLA. I would also consider UVA and Case Western if you're open to schools outside of CA/NY.

 

[gyngyn]

Honestly, @gyngyn, I would retaking an 8 subsection score, even with a 35.

I can tell you this won't be seen as a net positive at my school.

 

[northernlights15]

I can tell you this won't fly at my school.

I'm really quite surprised retaking a "good score" for a "better score" is looked down upon and is grounds for rejection.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm really quite surprised retaking a "good score" for a "better score" is looked down upon and is grounds for rejection.

Retaking a weak score is necessary and understandable, though multiple scores are not desirable.

The pool of applicants who re-take a score in the 96th% differs from those who didn't in ways that do not make them a more desirable candidate.

 

[northernlights15]

Retaking a weak score is necessary and understandable, though multiple scores are not desirable.
Re-taking a score in the 96th% reveals what characteristics about the person?

Some places a 8 is right at the 10th percentile for the subsection. Sometimes an 8 is even below the 10th percentile (I think).

Pre-meds are naturally neurotic so I feel like the desire to do as well as they believe possible should be okay and not frowned upon.

Do you think it could depend on the institution? I've seen Goro say retaking an already good score is grounds for rejection at your's and LizzyM's school but I had a friend who got a 33 and then a 39 and got into Mt. Sinai and NYU (his GPA was slightly below average for those schools).

 

[gyngyn]

Some places a 8 is right at the 10th percentile for the subsection. Sometimes an 8 is even below the 10th percentile (I think).

Pre-meds are naturally neurotic so I feel like the desire to do as well as they believe possible should be okay and not frowned upon.

Do you think it could depend on the institution? I've seen Goro say retaking an already good score is grounds for rejection at your's and LizzyM's school but I had a friend who got a 33 and then a 39 and got into Mt. Sinai and NYU (his GPA was slightly below average for those schools).

You are right in that this is only one of many factors being considered.
Though it is not necessarily a rejection, it aligns with qualities we are not looking for.
If those qualities are confirmed elsewhere in the application an interview is much less likely.

A single number near the 10th% flanked by two at the 100th% is still an excellent score and no one screens at an 8.

 

[northernlights15]

You are right in that this is only one of many factors being considered.
Though it is not necessarily a rejection, it aligns with qualities we are not looking for.

A single number near the 10th% flanked by two at the 100th% is still an excellent score and no one screens at an 8.

Okay, good to know! I do understand how retaking a 36-37+ and scores of the like can be cringeworthy.

 

[Goro]

Actually, LizzyM has stated that people who want to get into her school probably would retake a 33 for a 37. She's in the stratosphere. At my school, we wouldn't reject, but we'd cast a baleful eye at the applicant. Typically we view them as "they just want to get into an MD school" [and as such, why are they applying to us if they'd rather go elsewhere merely for the initials after the name?].

But more sinisterly, the people who retake a good score because "they felt they could do better" are more worrisome. Perfectionists are troubling in two ways:

A) they're always in your office whining about how their 95 on the exam should be a 96.
B) they try to learn everything, and end up learning nothing.

Some places a 8 is right at the 10th percentile for the subsection. Sometimes an 8 is even below the 10th percentile (I think).

Pre-meds are naturally neurotic so I feel like the desire to do as well as they believe possible should be okay and not frowned upon.

Do you think it could depend on the institution? I've seen Goro say retaking an already good score is grounds for rejection at your's and LizzyM's school but I had a friend who got a 33 and then a 39 and got into Mt. Sinai and NYU (his GPA was slightly below average for those schools).

 

[GrapesofRath]

Being on here I see alot of times the disconnect between what pre-meds think is best for their chances and what is actually best for their chances. This discussion really epitomizes this as much as anything.

There are many cases where pre-meds are mistaken in what they think is best for them due to just not being resourceful and doing research. I don't think this is the case here. In this case, I have a hard time blaming an average pre-med who does a decent amount of research into their schools and what is good for their application to think that re-taking a 34 isn't a bad idea or re-taking a test with an 8 subscore would help them. While, yes it's not a very good idea, this is not something particularly obvious or the type of information that is just readily available(such as schools that favor in-state residents). If someone has a 3.9 and aspires for top 20 schools, while I'm not disputing it would be unwise for them to re-take, I can easily see why they think it would be a good idea to try and re-take an MCAT that is a couple points below many top 20 school averages. You can cite the statistics as showing people rarely improve on re-takes significantly. But at the same time, scoring a 34+ top 7% caliber score in the first place is an exception to the rule in a way itself.

The whole thing that makes this kind of unfortunate is I don't think most people who re-take 34's or who have 35's with an 8 sub score would retake if they knew it wouldn't reflect well upon them. I can easily see why this looks rather neurotic and why an ADCOM would look upon this unfavorably and be much harsher on someone who showed another neurotic tendency in their application(that if by itself wouldn't be a serious issue) when you combine this one. But at the same time any discussion about medical school applications revolves around the words "putting your best effort" "making yourself most desirable" "having stats within the range of schools you are applying to". If we just look at this superficially, re-taking a 34 and improving that accomplishes all these 3 things without considering how it will look and be perceived.

I guess the question to ask is that is there a line that exists of what an ADCOM expects a pre-med to know and expect from them and what they can't, even if its unofficial and not really talked about. Because expecting a pre-med to know that re-taking a 34 caliber score that is below average for top 20 schools when rest of their application is top 20 caliber is dumb and reeks of being neurotic might be somewhere along that line. And unfortunately, as ADCOMS on here and everybody knows there is loads of horrendous advice given about medical school applications, particularly by those who flaunt themselves as being in the know such as pre-med advisors whom applicants are basically required to talk to if the school offers a committee letter. It's just an interesting discussion and thought as I type it out here.

 

[neuroDoc8]

OP here. After months of waiting, I unfortunately did not get an interview invite this application cycle. I am pretty bummed but I do plan on reapplying this year. I think one of the major mistakes I made was applying late. I did not submit my primary application until July 8th and I did not submit some secondaries until weeks after I received them. Also, trying to save money, I only applied to a total of 15 schools, most of which were top schools.

I would like to note that I really only retook my MCAT because I had a low verbal school. I was advised that it was not good to have an unbalanced MCAT. It took a lot of time and effort to study for the new MCAT. If I knew that it was looked down upon, I definitely would have avoided retaking it.

I was naive and now know that I have to apply to a lot more schools. My resume has not changed much except that I now have a full-time job at a medical device company. However, I am not getting any clinical experience here. I am currently looking for a clinical volunteer position.

Do you have any advice for me as a reapplicant?

@gyngyn @Goro

 

[gyngyn]

Where did you actually apply?
I'm surprised that you did not get an interview at UCSD. 20% of their incoming class is from the undergrad and there were only 142 applicants last year.

 

[neuroDoc8]

I ended up applying and sending secondaries to:

UCSF
UCLA
UC Irvine
Yale
Mt. Sinai Icahn
NYU
USC
Columbia
Harvard
Einstein
Cornell
Northwestern

Although I loved being an undergrad at UCSD, I didn't really want to spend another 4 years there. I sent in a primary but I didn't end up sending a secondary when I was crunched for time. Wish that I knew they had such a bias towards their undergrads!

 

[gyngyn]

There are only two (maybe 3) schools on that list where you had a fair chance at an interview.
The good news is that you are not going to be a re-applicant at most of the schools that might interview you!
Where is your new list?

 

[neuroDoc8]

Well that's good news at least. I am not sure about my school list yet. Suggestions? How many schools should I apply to?

 

[GrapesofRath]

You really need MSAR. You cant afford to have another relatively mediocre school list on a reapp

Get it and look at schools with an MCAT median of around 33-34 that are OOS friendly. Those with <10k apps and under are where you should focus mostly on. Outside of UCSD and maybe Einstein or Irvine there's really no point in reapplying to any of the schools on your list(and even those wont be super high yield as a reapp).

Miami, Saint Louis etc those are the types of schools you want to target. Find at least a dozen schools just like that. Being a CA reapplicant, you can make that a little higher even ideally. Use schools like CWRU or Emory as reaches, not Yale and Stanford types.

 

[7331poas]

Why did you apply to those schools and not the ones that were discussed earlier in the thread?

jeez man

 

[neuroDoc8]

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[timeflies]

Where did you actually apply?
I'm surprised that you did not get an interview at UCSD. 20% of their incoming class is from the undergrad and there were only 142 applicants last year.

Just to chime in quickly, I think this percentage is slightly inflated due to the Med Scholars program in which a handful of these UCSD undergrads are guaranteed admissions to the med school straight out of high school. The actual makeup will be less for those who apply through the traditional route. Although, this program has been discontinued as of the high school graduating class of 2016.

 

[gyngyn]

Just to chime in quickly, I think this percentage is slightly inflated due to the Med Scholars program in which a handful of these UCSD undergrads are guaranteed admissions to the med school straight out of high school. The actual makeup will be less for those who apply through the traditional route. Although, this program has been discontinued as of the high school graduating class of 2016.

This seems to be the trend on the west coast. Oddly, they are still going full bore on the east...

 

[Mad Jack]

awesome! This really cheered me up

You're gonna make it bro. You've got this. Don't get overly worried about things, you're gonna get in somewhere if you apply appropriately as has been suggested.

 

[neuroDoc8]

You're gonna make it bro. You've got this. Don't get overly worried about things, you're gonna get in somewhere if you apply appropriately as has been suggested.

Thanks bro. appreciate it