WAMC (High Stats/Low Hours - Texas Resident)

[premed4617]

Hi everyone!

I’m looking for any advice on how I can improve my ECs in these last few months as well as my OOS school list. I’m aware that my hard stats are very good, but I’m very concerned about my lack of hours compared to the thousands other people have. This makes me question whether I should waste money applying to T20s OOS like NYU, Columbia, Duke, etc. I made a similar mistake when applying to undergrads as I simply assumed high stats (SAT/GPA) would get me in to a better school. I hope to be more realistic with this app cycle so please be honest if I even have a chance at some of these universities. Are there any glaring weaknesses or areas I should focus on in these last few months? Thanks!

1. cGPA/sGPA - 4.0
2. MCAT - 525 (132/129/132/132)
3. State - Texas
4. ORM, Asian male
5. Undergraduate - Growing state school
6. Clinical experience
   1. Volunteer - 75 hrs at a homeless shelter clinic (running patient intake, front desk, restocking, resetting rooms, taking vitals)
   2. Non-volunteer - 500 hrs as an ER scribe
7. Research experience - 100 hrs as a lab volunteering (running behavioral tests with rats, no pubs)
8. Shadowing experience - 20 hrs with a dermatologist, 30 hrs of virtual shadowing (didn’t learn much at all from this though so unsure if whether or not to even include on app?)
9. Non-clinical volunteering - 75 hrs as a hospital concierge (technically not clinical?), 25 hrs split amongst 2 food banks and a museum (premed honor society), 30 hrs at a local animal shelter
10. Leadership/teaching - 300 hrs as a PLTL leader/tutor (run weekly tutoring sessions). 50 hrs as a hospice organization music leader (coordinate hospice concerts, new volunteers, and perform at assisted living facilities)
11. Other: 1500 hrs as a lead server at a Japanese restaurant (worked several times as manager/bartender so picked up many service/people skills)

School List: I need some help shortening my OOS. As a Texas resident, I am very aware of the yield protection but I’m really hoping to leave Texas. The problem is that I need a school that provides at least enough scholarships to somewhat match Texas school tuition. I used admit.org to create my original school list but I don’t think I can apply to this many schools (both for financial, time, and low chances).

IS: All TX MD - 13

OOS:

Reach Schools (definitely need to cut these down)
Columbia
Duke
UCSF
Vanderbilt
WashU
Cornell
NYU Grossman
Mayo Clinic
U Chicago
U Virginia

Target Schools
Northwestern
U Michigan
U Pitt
Icahn
UCLA
Emory
Ohio State
U Iowa
USF Health
Arizona-Pheonix

Baseline Schools
U Colorado
U Maryland
U Cincinnati
Albert Einstein
U Miami
Tufts
George Washington
U Vermont
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Tulane
Western Michigan

Please let me know if there are any schools I should add or remove from this list. I would greatly appreciate it and any other advice/suggestions! TIA!

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[Faha]

Do not include the virtual shadowing but accumulate another 30 hours of in person physician shadowing before you submit your application.
Many of the OOS MD schools will assume that you will attend a Texas school. Also the OOS state public schools and mid to lower tier schools will "yield protect" with your stats. Some schools may be interested in your application due to your high stats and you could try these:
Tulane
Washington University (in St. Louis)
Vanderbilt
Northwestern
U Chicago
Mayo
Case Western
UPenn
Johns Hopkins
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Columbia
Cornell
Harvard
Yale
Brown
Kaiser
Stanford
UCSF
Duke

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Volunteer - 75 hrs at a homeless shelter clinic (running patient intake, front desk, restocking, resetting rooms, taking vitals). 50 hrs as a hospice organization music leader (coordinate hospice concerts, new volunteers, and perform at assisted living facilities)

This should go under nonclinical volunteering.

30 hrs of virtual shadowing (didn’t learn much at all from this though so unsure if whether or not to even include on app?)

Exclude this activity. Get 30 more hours shadowing multiple specialties.

25 hrs split amongst 2 food banks and a museum (premed honor society), 30 hrs at a local animal shelter

I disregard activities with fewer than 50 hours (except shadowing). Get more food bank hours to get that total to 50+ hours.

The problem is that I need a school that provides at least enough scholarships to somewhat match Texas school tuition.

Why not go for HPSP or NHSC so that the government pays for your cost of attendance at any school? Make your application truly desirable without worrying about paying for it? Do either of these opportunities conform to your purpose to become a physician? For crying out loud, your metrics should make you a strong candidate for HPSP/NHSC, but it's not a guarantee a medical school will throw a merit scholarship at you. Don't make this mistake as you had with your undergraduate selection (according to you).

Mission fit is going to help you refine your school list or it will help schools exclude you. Right now, you have not defined it, so you are as good as a high-scoring applicant with "cannon fodder" experiences.

 

[premed4617]

Do not include the virtual shadowing but accumulate another 30 hours of in person physician shadowing before you submit your application.
Many of the OOS MD schools will assume that you will attend a Texas school. Also the OOS state public schools and mid to lower tier schools will "yield protect" with your stats. Some schools may be interested in your application due to your high stats and you could try these:
Tulane
Washington University (in St. Louis)
Vanderbilt
Northwestern
U Chicago
Mayo
Case Western
UPenn
Johns Hopkins
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Columbia
Cornell
Harvard
Yale
Brown
Kaiser
Stanford
UCSF
Duke

Hey, thanks for the advice! I am currently looking to shadow another physician and will remove the virtual shadowing from my app. Thanks for the list and I appreciate the advice!

 

[Faha]

Hey, thanks for the advice! I am currently looking to shadow another physician and will remove the virtual shadowing from my app. Thanks for the list and I appreciate the advice!

You could also add NYU (free tuition).

 

[premed4617]

This should go under nonclinical volunteering.


Exclude this activity. Get 30 more hours shadowing multiple specialties.


I disregard activities with fewer than 50 hours (except shadowing). Get more food bank hours to get that total to 50+ hours.

Why not go for HPSP or NHSC so that the government pays for your cost of attendance at any school? Make your application truly desirable without worrying about paying for it? Do either of these opportunities conform to your purpose to become a physician? For crying out loud, your metrics should make you a strong candidate for HPSP/NHSC, but it's not a guarantee a medical school will throw a merit scholarship at you. Don't make this mistake as you had with your undergraduate selection (according to you).

Mission fit is going to help you refine your school list or it will help schools exclude you. Right now, you have not defined it, so you are as good as a high-scoring applicant with "cannon fodder" experiences.

Thanks for your honest response! Just to clarify, are you saying that the homeless shelter clinic and hospice music volunteering are both considered nonclinical?

I will look into more shadowing for sure! Also will definitely continue volunteering at food banks/animal shelter!

I've never heard of HPSP/NHSC but I will definitely look into them. I don't have a particular focus on military/primary care though. My goal was to get into a med school that gives me the opportunity to match well into highly competitive ones (if I end up deciding to choose one of those) but the main point is the opportunity. I am very much open to all the different specialties, with a hint more interest in the surgeries.

Indeed, the mistake I made with undergrad was wasting money on applications to top schools that I really had no chance to even get admitted to, let alone get some sort of merit scholarship. I do have a lot of benefits from being a TX resident and having access to cheaper good schools as well (and I will be extremely happy/lucky if I could get into UTSW). I would just like to know ahead of time if I shouldn't be wasting my time applying to schools like Columbia, Duke, and NYU if I really don't stand a chance at all do to my weak ECs.

I definitely need some work to define my mission fit. For some context, I am a sophomore in college (19 y/o) and will graduate 1 year early, and hoping to matriculate directly after. I don't know if this matters for adcoms, at least I don't think it matters to any significant degree. But, for me, it explains a lot of why I chose to do these ECs and why they aren't just checking boxes for me, even though they are such low hours. My first year in college was definitely checking boxes, this was scribing and the hospital volunteering primarily. I realized that I didn't necessarily enjoy those so over this second year, I've found different ECs that I really enjoy and plan on continuing through next year (homeless clinic, lab research, hospice music volunteering). This is why the hours are very low on these but I can definitely explain myself why I chose these activities.

Again thanks for all the advice and I will definitely take this all into consideration!

 

[premed4617]

You could also add NYU (free tuition).

It's actually on my list and would be my #1 without a doubt! Thanks for the response!

 

[KaiBuzz]

What’s the rush? You’re 19 years old. If you’re really shooting for the top 20 schools, you need more of everything (research, clinical, non clinical volunteering, leadership, shadowing). Get some research publications or posters and you’ll be in a strong position for med school and residency.

 

[premed4617]

What’s the rush? You’re 19 years old. If you’re really shooting for the top 20 schools, you need more of everything (research, clinical, non clinical volunteering, leadership, shadowing). Get some research publications or posters and you’ll be in a strong position for med school and residency.

Thanks for responding! I think this is the general consensus. I will definitely need a gap year to reach a top 20. I guess it comes down to my priorities. I think I would rather matriculate immediately to one of the better med schools in TX over waiting a year to get into a t20. Keeping this in mind, if this cycle fails, I'll be alright and will apply next year again, hopefully with a stronger application then. I appreciate the advice!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

As a Texas resident, I am very aware of the yield protection but I’m really hoping to leave Texas.

I think @wysdoc may have a word with you for that heresy.

Have you ever left Texas? Many applicants find summer research opportunities on other medical school campuses outside Texas, and that gives them a bit more credibility that they want to "play the field." That's an indicator for me whenever I have had faculty (OOS program) raise doubts if a Texas applicant is worth an interview slot; "they did a summer research stint at School X which is in the neighboring state." It's not "required" of all Texas applicants wanting to go out of state but it helps.

Go take a gap year away from Texas, perhaps think about state residency criteria. Try applying once you get a few papers and some fully-focused clinical and non-clinical experiences under your belt. Maybe consider Peace Corps or a prestigious international fellowship abroad (Rhodes, Gates, Fulbright). Your metrics suggest you could be a strong candidate if you craft the right application. Nothing says I could hang with Ivy+ students like those options (actually, it really isn't that simple, but you seem to want to hear about what you need to do to get a chance at the Ivy+ medical school apple).

Your 4.0/52x will get attention, but the skepticism will still be there because history tells us most schools can't match the in-state tuition discount Texas schools have. This isn't undergrad... we're talking differences in the tens of thousands of dollars, and years of repayment unless you have a plan knowing about Loan Repayment Plans (for research/academic careers) or HPSP/NHSC (which I have already brought up).

 

[premed4617]

I think @wysdoc may have a word with you for that heresy.

Have you ever left Texas? Many applicants find summer research opportunities on other medical school campuses outside Texas, and that gives them a bit more credibility that they want to "play the field." That's an indicator for me whenever I have had faculty (OOS program) raise doubts if a Texas applicant is worth an interview slot; "they did a summer research stint at School X which is in the neighboring state." It's not "required" of all Texas applicants wanting to go out of state but it helps.

Go take a gap year away from Texas, perhaps think about state residency criteria. Try applying once you get a few papers and some fully-focused clinical and non-clinical experiences under your belt. Maybe consider Peace Corps or a prestigious international fellowship abroad (Rhodes, Gates, Fulbright). Your metrics suggest you could be a strong candidate if you craft the right application. Nothing says I could hang with Ivy+ students like those options (actually, it really isn't that simple, but you seem to want to hear about what you need to do to get a chance at the Ivy+ medical school apple).

Your 4.0/52x will get attention, but the skepticism will still be there because history tells us most schools can't match the in-state tuition discount Texas schools have. This isn't undergrad... we're talking differences in the tens of thousands of dollars, and years of repayment unless you have a plan knowing about Loan Repayment Plans (for research/academic careers) or HPSP/NHSC (which I have already brought up).

Definitely a lot of realistic and helpful advice for me to consider here!

Money is definitely a huge factor for me. Even if I got accepted to a t20/ivy league, if I also got accepted to UTSW (for example), I would 100% pick UTSW and be VERY happy with that.

I've always loved the north east (Boston/NYC) area. I actually grew up in New Jersey visiting NY often and have also visited the north east area 3 times in the last 3 years. I didn't do any research/internship so I'm not sure if this provides enough of a reason to show adcoms that I want to leave. For undergrad, I was offered a large scholarship from BU but chose my state school with almost a full ride (saving over 180k).

I guess I'm just entertaining the potential idea of an ivy league. But when it comes down to it, I would prioritize getting a year ahead and cheaper cost than taking a gap year and still (most likely) having to pay more for an ivy (if I'm even competitive for them at that point). But, by the time the cycle ends and I learn that I will have to reapply, it will be too late to try one of the fellowships or the Peace Corps you mention. I will definitely look into these and reevaluate my plans! Thanks!