What are my chances now vs retake?

[TylerGLee]

Posting this as a WAMC because it sort of delves into that question by the end, bare with me...

So in some recent posts I have outright said I will not retake the MCAT. I got a 28 (9,9,10- P/V/B) my first time through. I began studying Jan 2013 until April 2013. I studied roughly 40 hours a week for about 14 weeks. I took TPR prep course, and supplemented any other stuff by looking at the Berkeley review books or talking to professors. I took almost all of the AAMC practice tests and through the first five or so I climbed from an 18 to a 30. Then for the last 5 or so I kept above a 30, averaging a 32. When I took the real thing, I got a 28.

Now this has sort of been a blessing in disguise that I got this score at this time in my life because of a recent marriage, moving etc, this year would have been insane if I added applying to it. But now that I have some more time and am planning on applying next cycle that little voice in my head is saying maybe I should have another go at it. I would for sure not be able to give it the time that I gave it the first time. I could maybe give it 20 hours a week for maybe 3 or 4 months. The only thing that I could see myself doing better this time around is maybe doing more practice problems.

The first time around I mainly just read through all of the review books and then took the practice tests, I did basically NO supplemental practice problems besides the practice tests. So this time around I would plan on doing like the entire book of practice problems.

I realized literally by my first couple of problems on the actual MCAT that the raw knowledge is not as important as just getting random problems and being able to solve them. So maybe by pretty much solely practicing problems I would have a greater shot? Maybe instead of just doing like 50 practice problems (which I did last time) by doing maybe like 1000 I would be more prepared? This is the thought that kept me up last night.

Now for the CONS:
- Again I will NOT be able to give it the attention I gave it the first time, guarantee. I have work, life etc. But this time maybe I will be studying smarter instead of longer?
- I am scared $hitless that I will do worse than I did the first time. I have heard this does not go over very well with admission committees... which would for sure add a crap ton of pressure, in which case I would for sure be more stressed on the test day.
- All things considered, I felt good on test day last time. No jitters, no panic, nothing. I felt very confident that I would do as well as my practice tests. I felt there were no particular holes when I took the test. ** I will add that I am somewhat average with standardized tests. Just naturally not crazy for them.
- The fact that I took all of the practice tests only a few months ago makes me nervous. I have heard it is not good to retake them unless its been like over a year because you can over inflate your practice scores. So this time around I would maybe have less real practice tests to go with...
- Have to re-buy some books

If I had a 27 I would say I would for sure retake. If I had a 29 I would be content. But this 28 which is putting me right in the middle of DO and MD schools is just putting some thoughts (perhaps crazy) in my head. Some times I feel a retake would be the wise thing to do. While some times I feel that I should count my blessings, proceed with what I have, and apply to a carefully chosen set of DO and "low tier" MD schools early next cycle and hopefully I would have a shot.



Here are my other stats for those curious, from a previous thread (updated):
I have lived in Maryland my whole life but I moved in July 2013 to Wisconsin, where I will be living for the next two years (wife is getting her masters), so I guess technically I will be a Wisconsin resident when I apply?

I will be applying right when the application opens, so I figure an early application will help. I have everything pretty much set already since I was planning on originally applying this year, but changed my mind at the last minute…

Here are my stats:
23 year old white male
First in my family to graduate from college (a lot of uneducated farmers in my family)
Bio major (graduated 2013)
3.4cgpa
3.25sgpa (3.5 DO sgpa)
Took a fair bit of challenging courses, and a few graduate courses, and I absolutely have an upward trend. I took 5 college course while I was in high school, I was immature, did not give a crap about them and failed all of them which is why my GPA was brought so low. I had mostly A’s from sophomore to senior year (ironically in the more challenging science courses? I guess they were more interesting and I had my head on straight).

28 MCAT (10 bio, 9 verbal, 9 phys.)

From a small private college in the middle of nowhere

Roughly 200 hours of volunteer experience, cooking food at a homeless shelter during the summer, and then passing out supplies during a couple winters.

A ton of research stuff:
-3 month summer research project with an organic chemist at my school where I presented my work at the ACS national meeting
-1 year of research with a biochemist at my school
- 6 months of research at the USDA at Fort Detrick, MD
-4 months as a lab technician with the same USDA lab (they hired me as a contractor once I finished my internship).
-Currently work (and will continue to work for the next two years) as a research technologist in the department of biochemistry at the medical college of Wisconsin.

Some other random stuff:
-Worked as a camp counselor two summers ago. This was a pretty awesome experience and I learned a ton of my leadership skills from this time in my life.
-Organic chemistry tutor for a year.
-Have my CNA license and worked as a medical assistant for a podiatrist for 4 months.
-Shadowed roughly 30 hours in the emergency room at my local hospital
-Did a habitat for humanity alternative spring break trip to rebuild houses after Katrina hit a few years back.
-As soon as my CNA license transfers to this state I plan on working and getting some more clinical. I also might shadow another doc or two, maybe surgeons, to get a different feel for different fields of medicine.
-I have extremely strong letters of recommendation, a very nice bonus of having some amazing professors and mentors at a small college.


So it is a pickle. What are some views on this? Count my Blessings or Retake under increased stress... If I knew how to set up a poll I would do that...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Etyan]

A 28 on the MCAT and your GPA will be a tough sell to MD AdComs. Your ECs look interesting and if you can bring out your passion for medicine through them, they are already more than adequate.

- Again I will NOT be able to give it the attention I gave it the first time, guarantee. I have work, life etc. But this time maybe I will be studying smarter instead of longer?

It's OK to not be able to dedicate *as much* time the second time around. However you must be able to keep to a schedule and achieve your study goals. No excuses.

- I am scared $hitless that I will do worse than I did the first time. I have heard this does not go over very well with admission committees... which would for sure add a crap ton of pressure, in which case I would for sure be more stressed on the test day.

Yes, scoring worse will almost certainly have to be addressed on interview day, and even on some secondaries.

- All things considered, I felt good on test day last time. No jitters, no panic, nothing. I felt very confident that I would do as well as my practice tests. I felt there were no particular holes when I took the test. ** I will add that I am somewhat average with standardized tests. Just naturally not crazy for them.

The MCAT is a comprehension-based, problem-solving test of your critical thinking skills. You can flush out where your gaps are by doing practice problems. Lots of practice problems.

- The fact that I took all of the practice tests only a few months ago makes me nervous. I have heard it is not good to retake them unless its been like over a year because you can over inflate your practice scores. So this time around I would maybe have less real practice tests to go with...

A mildly valid concern. Don't worry too much about your scores; focus on getting 100% of all the problems right. Keep doing them until you do.

- Have to re-buy some books

Yes, and submitting each secondary will cost you anywhere from $50-$120. Investing in a higher MCAT score to submit to all your schools will be well worth it.

... I feel that I should count my blessings, proceed with what I have, and apply to a carefully chosen set of DO and "low tier" MD schools early next cycle and hopefully I would have a shot.

Also a valid path to take.

 

[Goro]

You'll be fine for DO programs.

Unfortunately, sometimes people plateau out on the MCAT.

Posting this as a WAMC because it sort of delves into that question by the end, bare with me...

So in some recent posts I have outright said I will not retake the MCAT. I got a 28 (9,9,10- P/V/B) my first time through. I began studying Jan 2013 until April 2013. I studied roughly 40 hours a week for about 14 weeks. I took TPR prep course, and supplemented any other stuff by looking at the Berkeley review books or talking to professors. I took almost all of the AAMC practice tests and through the first five or so I climbed from an 18 to a 30. Then for the last 5 or so I kept above a 30, averaging a 32. When I took the real thing, I got a 28.

Now this has sort of been a blessing in disguise that I got this score at this time in my life because of a recent marriage, moving etc, this year would have been insane if I added applying to it. But now that I have some more time and am planning on applying next cycle that little voice in my head is saying maybe I should have another go at it. I would for sure not be able to give it the time that I gave it the first time. I could maybe give it 20 hours a week for maybe 3 or 4 months. The only thing that I could see myself doing better this time around is maybe doing more practice problems.

The first time around I mainly just read through all of the review books and then took the practice tests, I did basically NO supplemental practice problems besides the practice tests. So this time around I would plan on doing like the entire book of practice problems.

I realized literally by my first couple of problems on the actual MCAT that the raw knowledge is not as important as just getting random problems and being able to solve them. So maybe by pretty much solely practicing problems I would have a greater shot? Maybe instead of just doing like 50 practice problems (which I did last time) by doing maybe like 1000 I would be more prepared? This is the thought that kept me up last night.

Now for the CONS:
- Again I will NOT be able to give it the attention I gave it the first time, guarantee. I have work, life etc. But this time maybe I will be studying smarter instead of longer?
- I am scared $hitless that I will do worse than I did the first time. I have heard this does not go over very well with admission committees... which would for sure add a crap ton of pressure, in which case I would for sure be more stressed on the test day.
- All things considered, I felt good on test day last time. No jitters, no panic, nothing. I felt very confident that I would do as well as my practice tests. I felt there were no particular holes when I took the test. ** I will add that I am somewhat average with standardized tests. Just naturally not crazy for them.
- The fact that I took all of the practice tests only a few months ago makes me nervous. I have heard it is not good to retake them unless its been like over a year because you can over inflate your practice scores. So this time around I would maybe have less real practice tests to go with...
- Have to re-buy some books

If I had a 27 I would say I would for sure retake. If I had a 29 I would be content. But this 28 which is putting me right in the middle of DO and MD schools is just putting some thoughts (perhaps crazy) in my head. Some times I feel a retake would be the wise thing to do. While some times I feel that I should count my blessings, proceed with what I have, and apply to a carefully chosen set of DO and "low tier" MD schools early next cycle and hopefully I would have a shot.



Here are my other stats for those curious, from a previous thread (updated):
I have lived in Maryland my whole life but I moved in July 2013 to Wisconsin, where I will be living for the next two years (wife is getting her masters), so I guess technically I will be a Wisconsin resident when I apply?

I will be applying right when the application opens, so I figure an early application will help. I have everything pretty much set already since I was planning on originally applying this year, but changed my mind at the last minute…

Here are my stats:
23 year old white male
First in my family to graduate from college (a lot of uneducated farmers in my family)
Bio major (graduated 2013)
3.4cgpa
3.25sgpa (3.5 DO sgpa)
Took a fair bit of challenging courses, and a few graduate courses, and I absolutely have an upward trend. I took 5 college course while I was in high school, I was immature, did not give a crap about them and failed all of them which is why my GPA was brought so low. I had mostly A’s from sophomore to senior year (ironically in the more challenging science courses? I guess they were more interesting and I had my head on straight).

28 MCAT (10 bio, 9 verbal, 9 phys.)

From a small private college in the middle of nowhere

Roughly 200 hours of volunteer experience, cooking food at a homeless shelter during the summer, and then passing out supplies during a couple winters.

A ton of research stuff:
-3 month summer research project with an organic chemist at my school where I presented my work at the ACS national meeting
-1 year of research with a biochemist at my school
- 6 months of research at the USDA at Fort Detrick, MD
-4 months as a lab technician with the same USDA lab (they hired me as a contractor once I finished my internship).
-Currently work (and will continue to work for the next two years) as a research technologist in the department of biochemistry at the medical college of Wisconsin.

Some other random stuff:
-Worked as a camp counselor two summers ago. This was a pretty awesome experience and I learned a ton of my leadership skills from this time in my life.
-Organic chemistry tutor for a year.
-Have my CNA license and worked as a medical assistant for a podiatrist for 4 months.
-Shadowed roughly 30 hours in the emergency room at my local hospital
-Did a habitat for humanity alternative spring break trip to rebuild houses after Katrina hit a few years back.
-As soon as my CNA license transfers to this state I plan on working and getting some more clinical. I also might shadow another doc or two, maybe surgeons, to get a different feel for different fields of medicine.
-I have extremely strong letters of recommendation, a very nice bonus of having some amazing professors and mentors at a small college.


So it is a pickle. What are some views on this? Count my Blessings or Retake under increased stress... If I knew how to set up a poll I would do that...

 

[gyngyn]

you'll be fine for do programs.

Unfortunately, often people plateau out on the mcat.

ftfy

 

[TylerGLee]

Thank you for the fantastic responses. While it is difficult to gauge whether or not I plateaued, seeing as I only took it once, I am for sure hesitant because I know that I am not one of those naturally born to do extremely well on standardized testing. Not necessarily an excuse (because it is not like I have to explain myself to anyone but myself) but just a reality that I have come to know about myself.

However, even 1 or 2 points seems like it could dramatically help my chances.

Ironically at the same time I question whether months of studying is worth just one or two points! haha

The real test was for sure harder in my opinion. The problems felt significantly longer/had more parts than any of the practice problems that I could find... The AAMC practice tests are still the best gauge I believe. But otherwise, there is a little bit of me that would feel silly practicing with TPR or TBR when having physically owned those books and I feel they are a great reviewer of possible materials, I feel that there is as of now no set of problems that made me feel they adequately compared to the real thing.

So while my brain says I should retake simply due to statistics of what I bring to adcom's tables, I would be lying if I did not feel a little hopeless/plateau-ish.

It is nice talking about it though. After I got my scores I sort of just never brought it up again and basically if anyone ever asked if I was going to retake I just said absolutely not! So it is nice to at least process through it finally.

 

[deleted480308]

If it took 14wks of 40hr/wk of studying and you got a 28, you are just likely a 28 level student. Doesn't mean anything bad, just means you aren't likely to see dramatic impovement. Apply DO and go be a doctor...apply instate md if you want, but it's likely not going to happen

 

[mcloaf]

I agree that applying to a good set of DO schools and perhaps less selective MD schools would be your best bet.

While I know it seems like it on paper, 1 or 2 points won't make or break your application (especially considering that your GPA will be at least as much of a hindrance for MD schools) but retaking and scoring lower would definitely hurt you. Also, 14 weeks of 40 hrs/wk doesn't make it sound likely your score would increase much unless your studying was way off base during that 14 wks.

 

[TylerGLee]

If it took 14wks of 40hr/wk of studying and you got a 28, you are just likely a 28 level student. Doesn't mean anything bad, just means you aren't likely to see dramatic impovement. Apply DO and go be a doctor...apply instate md if you want, but it's likely not going to happen

^
Absolutely what my instinct tells me. I would maybe add on a couple other low tier MD schools to my in-state just for kicks. Otherwise, I would apply to maybe 8 DO schools that I really like and hope for the best. Just wanted to see if others had similar experiences.

I have a friend/mentor at UNC and he was telling me a friend of his originally got a 27 with lots of studying and then studied for another month, retook and ended up getting a 36 and is on scholarship at UPENN. Its crap like that that that keeps me wondering....

 

[mcloaf]

^
Absolutely what my instinct tells me. I would maybe add on a couple other low tier MD schools to my in-state just for kicks. Otherwise, I would apply to maybe 8 DO schools that I really like and hope for the best. Just wanted to see if others had similar experiences.

I have a friend/mentor at UNC and he was telling me a friend of his originally got a 27 with lots of studying and then studied for another month, retook and ended up getting a 36 and is on scholarship at UPENN. Its crap like that that that keeps me wondering....

That friend must have had some crazy test day circumstances the first time around. I find it pretty much unbelievable that they improved from 27 to 36 by just studying another month. Also, they must have had an impressive application outside of their MCAT to be getting scholarship money from Penn; 36 alone certainly wouldn't do it.

 

[TylerGLee]

That friend must have had some crazy test day circumstances the first time around. I find it pretty much unbelievable that they improved from 27 to 36 by just studying another month. Also, they must have had an impressive application outside of their MCAT to be getting scholarship money from Penn; 36 alone certainly wouldn't do it.

Yea not exactly sure all of the circumstances of this friend of a friend. Just relaying what I got in an email from this friend a couple weeks ago.

I was EXTREMELY devoted during those 14 weeks. I think the major flaw would be that I only did practice tests and no problems (something I will absolutely be changing for USMLE/COMPLEX- you live and learn!). However, as one of the posts has added, my GPA is also not helping my case. So it may be unlikely that a retake will set me up for drastic success.

Thank you for all of your comments. It seems that the consensus is while a retake could be helpful, the line between making myself a stronger applicant and putting myself in a worse spot (while wasting more time and money) is an extremely fine one. It seems that I should continue the course I am currently on then. I will continue getting clinical and research experience, work on writing a stellar PS now (really soul search so I can present an extremely compelling view of who I am), and apply to proper schools very early next cycle.

Thanks a bunch yall, as always a few nice posts have helped adjust the course I am on. Without the help, I would probably be going down the harder road.