What do medical students and physicians really think of nurses?

[peepof5]

Hello. I'm an RN of 3 years applying to med school this cycle. Working with patients and physicians over the years, I've come to realize this is what I really want to do. Unfortunately, I've noticed a lot of anti-nurse sentiment on different forums/websites and I want to better understand where that comes from.

It seems like a lot of medical students feel a lot of disdain towards nurses. On the flip side, I know there are nurses out there that don't treat med students well. I think that's pretty tragic and destructive towards the overall healthcare team and ultimately towards the patient.

Med students, do you or your classmates feel negatively towards nurses? If so, why? Have you been treated poorly by nurses during rotations, or is it something about the nurse's role that irks you? Have you gotten the chance to learn what a nurse really does while in medical school?

I'm just apprehensive about encountering this anti-nurse sentiment in medical school because my job means a lot to me and I've learned firsthand how crucial the nursing role is and all that. I've had some absolutely incredible experiences (especially nursing through the pandemic) and I would hate to think other students would view my experience with so little regard.

Docs please feel free to chime in as well.

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[eteshoe]

I personally enjoy working w nurses and have had mostly positive interactions with them. They're an integral part of the healthcare team and I always try to verbalize that to the ones I work with. My mom's a nurse so I definitely know how crucial they are to pt care!

 

[hiiiiiiiiiii]

As a med student, I like most of them but its really a case by case basis. Most want to help you, others are indifferent to you, and a small minority are the b-word (or d-word for males). You'll also find that even the mean or indifferent ones are much more friendly and open if you make a few seconds of small talk before asking for something or better yet, do a small favor to make their job easier. Like all other relationships in life, you get what you give.

 

[M&L]

I like nurses and have some classmates who were nurses before . They are incredibly helpful . On the ward now - and nurses are like gods there . They are sooooo helpful !!!!!

 

[peepof5]

I personally enjoy working w nurses and have had mostly positive interactions with them. They're an integral part of the healthcare team and I always try to verbalize that to the ones I work with. My mom's a nurse so I definitely know how crucial they are to pt care!

As a med student, I like most of them but its really a case by case basis. Most want to help you, others are indifferent to you, and a small minority are the b-word (or d-word for males). You'll also find that even the mean or indifferent ones are much more friendly and open if you make a few seconds of small talk before asking for something or better yet, do a small favor to make their job easier. Like all other relationships in life, you get what you give.

I like nurses and have some classmates who were nurses before . They are incredibly helpful . On the ward now - and nurses are like gods there . They are sooooo helpful !!!!!

Thank you guys for chiming in! You are all the kind of students I'd want to be around and are giving me hope again

 

[TakotsuboOkazaki]

Never had a negative interaction with a nurse on the floor. Know your ****, know your patients and be respectful and you’ll have no issues as a med student AFAIC.

For what it’s worth a classmate of mine who is changing careers from nursing happens to be one of the best and brightest I know.

 

[deleted966164]

There is the above and there is also the group who walks around claiming that med students and residents are out there to kill patients. Easily to identify as they post on social media memes saying that "If I were you I would not go to the ER in the next few weeks since a new group of interns just started and their last semester of medical school was online." They usually go on and get an NP... online.

Luckily this is a vast minority of my experience. I had good experiences with old and seasoned nurses. I had bad experiences with new nursing school graduates.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Hello. I'm an RN of 3 years applying to med school this cycle. Working with patients and physicians over the years, I've come to realize this is what I really want to do. Unfortunately, I've noticed a lot of anti-nurse sentiment on different forums/websites and I want to better understand where that comes from.

It seems like a lot of medical students feel a lot of disdain towards nurses. On the flip side, I know there are nurses out there that don't treat med students well. I think that's pretty tragic and destructive towards the overall healthcare team and ultimately towards the patient.

Med students, do you or your classmates feel negatively towards nurses? If so, why? Have you been treated poorly by nurses during rotations, or is it something about the nurse's role that irks you? Have you gotten the chance to learn what a nurse really does while in medical school?

I'm just apprehensive about encountering this anti-nurse sentiment in medical school because my job means a lot to me and I've learned firsthand how crucial the nursing role is and all that. I've had some absolutely incredible experiences (especially nursing through the pandemic) and I would hate to think other students would view my experience with so little regard.

Docs please feel free to chime in as well.

We wont hold the fact that your a nurse against u when ur in medical school if thats what ur asking.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Overall I feel nurses are not the issue its admin that makes them feel that they can interact with doctors/students however they want and have no consequences because nurses have a strong union and stick together. If students/docs do/say half the stuff I saw nurse do u would see them being reprimanded for unprofessional behavior.

On a side note: Personally, for me I think they have a higher level of vaccination hesitancy among health care workers and have alot of sway with the public and I partly think they have a part to play with people not want to get vaccinated

 

[deleted966164]

Overall I feel nurses are not the issue its admin that makes them feel that they can interact with doctors/students however they want and have no consequences because nurses have a strong union and stick together. If students/docs do/say half the stuff I saw nurse do u would see them being reprimanded for unprofessional behavior.

On a side note: Personally, for me I think they have a higher level of vaccination hesitancy and have alot of sway with the public and I partly think they have a part to play with people not want to get vaccinated

Here... an outlier (for sure!)... a patient's wife comes to the ED room instantly claiming to be in charge of everything. We swab the patient for COVID. She scolds us by saying "I'm a nurse! The test is fake. It does not test for coronavirus, it tests for mRNA. Flu has mRNA, cancer has mRNA. I'm a nurse - I know what I am talking about!" If you're not like that (which I am sure you're not!) you'll be ok.

To reiterate my previous post: I have learned a LOT from the nurses in the ED.

 

[peepof5]

On a side note: Personally, for me I think they have a higher level of vaccination hesitancy among health care workers and have alot of sway with the public and I partly think they have a part to play with people not want to get vaccinated

Hmm, interesting. I'm in a super liberal area with high rates of vaccination so I don't know any nurses like that, but in other areas of the country I could definitely see that happening.

Here... an outlier (for sure!)... a patient's wife comes to the ED room instantly claiming to be in charge of everything. We swab the patient for COVID. She scolds us by saying "I'm a nurse! The test is fake. It does not test for coronavirus, it tests for mRNA. Flu has mRNA, cancer has mRNA. I'm a nurse - I know what I am talking about!" If you're not like that (which I am sure you're not!) you'll be ok.

To reiterate my previous post: I have learned a LOT from the nurses in the ED.

This is really scary. These nurses are definitely outliers and are not good for our public image LOL

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

A good nurse is worth their weight in gold. A bad nurse makes everything so much worse.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'm gonna move this to pre-med as this isn't really directly relevant to medical students and med school.

I think my respect for nurses has only increased as I've advanced further in my career. Early on (ie med school) they know so much more than you do so you can learn a lot from them if you arehumble enough to ask and they have time to help. Now as an attending, it is obvious that our jobs are not hierarchical (ie the physician orders, the nurse does) but complementary (the physician makes the plan, the nurse figures out how to implement it). There are so many practical factors that a nurse knows that I just don't as a physician ("I can't run these two medications together"; "It's physically impossible to get the patient to all of these appointments/evaluations in this timeframe"; "this doesn't really seem to be in line with the patient's goals of care from what they have described to me") that having an open and respectful line of communication with your nurses at all times is absolutely critical.

Sure, there are bad nurses. There are also bad physicians. But most are good.

 

[mrbreakfast]

I'm just apprehensive about encountering this anti-nurse sentiment in medical school

You won't, at least not directed at you.

You might be more surprised at how your former nurse colleagues treat you as a M3-M4 and PGY1.

 

[peepof5]

I'm gonna move this to pre-med as this isn't really directly relevant to medical students and med school.

I think my respect for nurses has only increased as I've advanced further in my career. Early on (ie med school) they know so much more than you do so you can learn a lot from them if you arehumble enough to ask and they have time to help. Now as an attending, it is obvious that our jobs are not hierarchical (ie the physician orders, the nurse does) but complementary (the physician makes the plan, the nurse figures out how to implement it). There are so many practical factors that a nurse knows that I just don't as a physician ("I can't run these two medications together"; "It's physically impossible to get the patient to all of these appointments/evaluations in this timeframe"; "this doesn't really seem to be in line with the patient's goals of care from what they have described to me") that having an open and respectful line of communication with your nurses at all times is absolutely critical.

Sure, there are bad nurses. There are also bad physicians. But most are good.

Thanks for this perspective. I absolutely agree with you, the two roles are synergistic and really can't function without one another. I have the utmost respect for docs who really want to work together with nurses to problem-solve and deliver care.

You might be more surprised at how your former nurse colleagues treat you as a M3-M4 and PGY1.

Ahhhh ok. This is part of the reason I ask! Where there is a disconnect between the two parties, I would really like to play a small part in bridging the divide.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

I'm currently just volunteering on a nursing unit as a 27 yo premed, but all the nurses and techs I've met so far have been kind and helpful to me. All the women in my family are nurses so I def respect the profession.

My perspective on the nurses vs med students/interns divide is, it's mostly stupid pride on one or both partys' part. A lot of med students and junior residents have never had a real job before and don't know how office politics work. Some nurses will let something silly get under their skin and make that student's life miserable as payback.

Honestly, there are going to be jerks in every profession. There are some really toxic stories I've heard of nurses frankly crossing the line, but almost everyday on the med school or residency subreddits you will see multiple upvoted posts complaining about how nurses refuse to take orders or question the physician or whatever. As you say, this isn't an army office telling the grunt what to do situation. If both sides act respectful, there's no reason to be catty.

 

[guytakingboards]

Definitely a mixed bag of experiences. I had some freaking amazing nurses that got me through some iffy times when i was dumb resident. I also had plenty of nurses who i thought were disdainful and disrepectful of the job i was doing as an med student, intern and resident.

Someone, somewhere along the way said to me "the thing about nurses, is that they'll often treat students and residents like crap... cuz nurses know the day those doctors become attendings, they have to be respectful and fall in line". I think that plays out not uncommonly.

Side note: I've learned over time that it's generally an uphill battle getting anyone outside of your chain of command to do something in timely manner. i.e. a med student/resident getting a nurse to do something. I think that's just part of office politics, as someone above mentioned, which med students and residents haven't yet mastered. That being said, it tends to create some animosity for those trainee doctors when those nurses seem kinda of churlish and insubordinate. (and yes i understand nurses are not subordinate to med students).

Second side note: my perception as a medical student at a school with a nursing program... I got the vibe that:
a) nursing students were indoctrinated that nursing is as important if not more important than the medical doctors in the patient care. this may or may not be true that nursing education is taught that way, but it certainly felt like it. It frames the relationship pretty poorly in my opinion.

b) nursing students/future nurses don't get much if any teaching or guidance on the role of nursing in medical education. It's obviously true the medical student will never be "useful" to a nurse. interns/residents are more troublesome compared to a fully formed attending physician. that being said, interaction with nursing is a fundamental part of medical education and they're being dismissive or condescending of medical students is going to create problems.

 

[Chads2]

Hello. I'm an RN of 3 years applying to med school this cycle. Working with patients and physicians over the years, I've come to realize this is what I really want to do. Unfortunately, I've noticed a lot of anti-nurse sentiment on different forums/websites and I want to better understand where that comes from.

*sigh*
Ok, so...a different perspective. I just started my 8th year of being an attending at a University hospital and I’ve witnessed an entire spectrum on both sides. So I come from a different point of reference than most of the replies here.

Most of the nurses I know are effective members of the healthcare team and are good at what they do. BUT...what they do is not what I do. It is fundamentally different. I’ve taught interdisciplinary workshops in which medical students, pharmacy students and nursing students discuss their mutual patients from the different perspectives of their programs.

The “anti-nurse sentiment,” to be blunt, is something you have to get over once you start medical school because now your role has changed. An earlier reply stated that you’ll be judged more by nurses than you will by your classmates, especially as an MS3-MS4-PGY1. And I think that is absolutely true. And it’s because at that point, you are more one of us than one of them.

There is a difference between delivering medical care and practicing medicine. Just like there’s a difference between pitching a baseball and hitting one. Both are important to the team and you better understand your role when you understand the other’s role...but the roles are fundamentally different.

I’ve had a few nurses who have become medical students who have rotated under me. And, as I just recently said to one, “if you’re a nurse who wants to practice medicine, then go to medical school.”

And that is what you’ve chosen to do.

 

[peepof5]

*sigh*
Ok, so...a different perspective. I just started my 8th year of being an attending at a University hospital and I’ve witnessed an entire spectrum on both sides. So I come from a different point of reference than most of the replies here.

Most of the nurses I know are effective members of the healthcare team and are good at what they do. BUT...what they do is not what I do. It is fundamentally different. I’ve taught interdisciplinary workshops in which medical students, pharmacy students and nursing students discuss their mutual patients from the different perspectives of their programs.

The “anti-nurse sentiment,” to be blunt, is something you have to get over once you start medical school because now your role has changed. An earlier reply stated that you’ll be judged more by nurses than you will by your classmates, especially as an MS3-MS4-PGY1. And I think that is absolutely true. And it’s because at that point, you are more one of us than one of them.

There is a difference between delivering medical care and practicing medicine. Just like there’s a difference between pitching a baseball and hitting one. Both are important to the team and you better understand your role when you understand the other’s role...but the roles are fundamentally different.

I’ve had a few nurses who have become medical students who have rotated under me. And, as I just recently said to one, “if you’re a nurse who wants to practice medicine, then go to medical school.”

And that is what you’ve chosen to do.

For sure. The very different roles are why I'm here applying to medical school. Based on a lot of the replies, it seems like most people understand that there are good nurses (most) and bad ones (a few), as in any profession. As long as that's the case, I don't think I'll have any problem. Of course, on the internet people can say whatever they want, so I've seen some really nasty things said about nurses in general; for instance, that the work we do is completely brainless. And it kind of surprised me that people can still think that, if they have spent any time in the same setting with a nurse. It's pretty insulting to hear a premed say that because a lot of premeds are scribes and MAs, and although these jobs don't require degrees I don't hear a lot of people calling THAT brainless work, you know? So why do people think that about nurses? In the end, these opinions won't stop me from what I want to do. But I was curious to hear people's thoughts from the other side so that I have some idea of the prevailing attitudes I will encounter going forward. Fortunately it doesn't seem as bad as I thought