What NOT to do if you want to attend medical school

[ciruji]

I really feel bad about myself after reading this thread... So far i have been lucky

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[Lannister]

Vandalizing wikipedia is not exactly a moral thing to do either.

So we are going to slip into immorality in an effort to catch others who are behaving immoral themselves? Sounds like a delicious double standard.

I agree... Especially since we were allowed to us Wikipedia, it's not like we were even cheating by using it.

 

[Goro]

if the prof himself wrote the Wiki articles, he may have been trying to trap lazy students who would just cut and paste, and not do any diligent research.

I agree... Especially since we were allowed to us Wikipedia, it's not like we were even cheating by using it.

 

[Cotterpin]

I've never encountered a class where using Wikipedia for anything was considered okay.

 

[Mad Jack]

I've never encountered a class where using Wikipedia for anything was considered okay.

You might find a use or two for it in med school.

 

[Lannister]

if the prof himself wrote the Wiki articles, he may have been trying to trap lazy students who would just cut and paste, and not do any diligent research.

Oh I should clarify, these weren't take home tests. They were just regular paper tests that we could use our computers for. And we only had 50 minutes so it was kinda hard to check the validity of the sources.

 

[Goro]

Lazy prof!

 

[LizzyM]

I've never encountered a class where using Wikipedia for anything was considered okay.

You might find a use or two for it in med school.

Dr. Timi Wusu would not want you to use Wiki!

 

[Romz]

Dr. Timi Wusu would not want you to use Wiki!

2:08 LOL

 

[Stagg737]

My god, what is with kids and their fake IDs nowadays. What happened to good old fashioned finding someone over the age of 21 to buy you booze.

But then you can't get into all the bars and clubs with the cool kids!

Isn't this a civil issue not a criminal one? Do I have to abide by every civil code in order to remain ethical?

When it comes to how a school interprets it, does it really matter? There are plenty of things that people can be expelled for or receive IAs for that aren't illegal, just something the school sees as unethical. Whether it's criminal or civil, doing something illegal will typically warrant some kind of response from the school you attend. How harshly one is punished (if at all) will obviously depend on the school.

I'm fairly certain it's impossible to legally acquire the teacher's editions as a student. They say stuff like "not for commercial sales" or "for teacher/professor use only" and certainly say no resales or copying. But I agree the issue of illegal downloading is separate from cheating IA, just like illegal movies or music downloads. So the question is whether a student who came to possess the teacher's only guide by an unknown means can be called a cheater for it.

I don't know how much legal weight simply writing "not for commercial sales" carries, but I would assume that one would not be punished for simply having a book that says "for teacher use only". I was able to find a few of the 'teacher's only' versions of textbooks in college, but decided the $300-400 cost wasn't worth the 10-12 hours it took me to just do the homework. As far as I'm concerned, if a prof doesn't state that a student can't purchase it and it's not against the school's honor code, then I don't think the student has done anything wrong (assuming they obtained it through legal means). Though I'd still be interested in the opinions of some of this sites generous adcom members.

 

[efle]

But then you can't get into all the bars and clubs with the cool kids!



When it comes to how a school interprets it, does it really matter? There are plenty of things that people can be expelled for or receive IAs for that aren't illegal, just something the school sees as unethical. Whether it's criminal or civil, doing something illegal will typically warrant some kind of response from the school you attend. How harshly one is punished (if at all) will obviously depend on the school.



I don't know how much legal weight simply writing "not for commercial sales" carries, but I would assume that one would not be punished for simply having a book that says "for teacher use only". I was able to find a few of the 'teacher's only' versions of textbooks in college, but decided the $300-400 cost wasn't worth the 10-12 hours it took me to just do the homework. As far as I'm concerned, if a prof doesn't state that a student can't purchase it and it's not against the school's honor code, then I don't think the student has done anything wrong (assuming they obtained it through legal means). Though I'd still be interested in the opinions of some of this sites generous adcom members.

I think I'd have to be in your camp, that since the materials are out there (even if only by dubious channels) the prof must act so that having the materials provides no benefit to the grade (eg homework is all optional). Same way I feel about circulation of old practice exams, that because some people have them it's on professors to either write new tests or keep their test backlog available to the full class. LizzyM seems to feel like they are both on the student and should be punished as cheating if reported/caught!

 

[Catalystik]

You might find a use or two for it in med school.

[snicker]Universally looked down upon. Universally used anyways.

 

[Catalystik]

Dr. Timi Wusu would not want you to use Wiki!

Looks to be highly effective in molding med student behavior.

 

[Gauss44]

This is a public service announcement to all incoming freshman pre-meds.

There are some things you can do that will destroy your chances of getting into medical school. Consider this list WHAT NOT TO DO:

Do not copy from someone else's paper.

Do not let others copy from your paper.

Do not change a grade on an test, exam or quiz and submit it for regrading.

Do not share lab reports or lab notes with others.

Do not share old tests with others.

Do not collaborate on lab reports, term papers, or take home exams, unless you have something in writing from your instructor stating that this is permitted.

Do not use unauthorized material in completing homework assignments or take home exams. Don't obtain teacher's or desk copies of textbooks. Don't use Google for help with problem sets or to find problems and solutions.

Cite any material you use in a term paper. This means putting material from other sources in quotation marks with a citation indicating the source of the material. If you use an idea but not the exact words, cite the source of the idea. If you don't know how to cite material, ask your professor for help in learning this valuable skill.

Do not sell or give your prescription medication to anyone else. Do not use prescription medications that have been prescribed for someone else. In particular, do not use medications for ADHD that were not prescribed for you by a licensed physician.

This is not an exhaustive list but these are some examples of situations that can get you accused of academic dishonesty. If the institution finds that you have engaged in academic dishonesty, even if it was not to your benefit (e.g. you were doing very well but shared material with someone else) you will have a black mark on your record and your dreams of going to medical school will be OVER.

Thanks for the warning. I would have never guessed that some of these things could be problematic. Example: Using unauthorized material to complete homework assignments.

 

[ZedsDed]

Don't take selfies with sick and dying people in the third world on your "mission trips." *shudder*

 

[Spinach Dip]

Dr. Timi Wusu would not want you to use Wiki!

What is Blepharophyma?

I would trust wikipedia to give a basic definition of the disease, and maybe explain what causes it. But I would delve into the primary literature if I needed more than that.

 

[Cotterpin]

What is Blepharophyma?

I would trust wikipedia to give a basic definition of the disease, and maybe explain what causes it. But I would delve into the primary literature if I needed more than that.

Must be something to do with eyelids.

 

[LizzyM]

What is Blepharophyma?

I would trust wikipedia to give a basic definition of the disease, and maybe explain what causes it. But I would delve into the primary literature if I needed more than that.

UpToDate, which you'll have access to as a med student if your school has a subscription or Google to PUBMed

 

[Banco]

What is Blepharophyma?

Great google images search.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Great google images search.

 

[Holmwood]

Don't take selfies with sick and dying people in the third world on your "mission trips." *shudder*

This infuriates me so much. You don't treat people like souvenirs! (unless they are celebrities, they don't count as people according to privacy laws)

 

[Spinach Dip]

This infuriates me so much. You don't treat people like souvenirs! (unless they are celebrities, they don't count as people according to privacy laws)

Most people who go on mission trips do it NOT to help people, but to ACT like they want to help people.

 

[LizzyM]

This infuriates me so much. You don't treat people like souvenirs! (unless they are celebrities, they don't count as people according to privacy laws)

Unless the celebrity is a patient. Then the privacy laws certainly do apply!

 

[ChrisMack390]

Vandalizing wikipedia is not exactly a moral thing to do either.

So we are going to slip into immorality in an effort to catch others who are behaving immoral themselves? Sounds like a delicious double standard.

Yeah this guy is just being an dingus...

 

[bc65]

Some more:

Don't lie on any financial papers: Loans, income disclosures, indicating that you're not a dependent when you are, lying about state residency, lying to collect food stamps or unemployment insurance, etc. "Lying" also includes bending the truth.

Don't hold multiple acceptances beyond the allowed dates ( I know someone who got into big trouble for this one )

Be careful online: In addition to the usual cautions ( don't post photos or get tagged in photos showing you in unflattering situations ) be careful about posting threats "anonymously" online, or venting in other ways that would get you in trouble if your identity were known, because if your statements are perceived to be slanderous or threatening, your identity will be discovered.

Also, I would suggest that you should not comment at all about your medical school or residency experience online. No stories, no mention or surgery you saw, nothing at all, other than perhaps a general statement like " I'm loving my school / residency." Individual med students and physicians often unwittingly cross the line into impropriety. Nothing good will come of exposing the details of your life online.

 

[Okazaki Frag Grenade]

Don't take selfies with sick and dying people in the third world on your "mission trips." *shudder*

Or this:

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/doctor-takes-selfie-next-woman-giving-birth-32537

 

[md-2020]

Or this:

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/doctor-takes-selfie-next-woman-giving-birth-32537

Based in SA? He probably went to a Caribbean school.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

Wiki is an AMAZING way to find general information (like super super general) that steers you in the right direction for research. My Neuro prof suggested we use it to find keywords for what to research just to familiarize ourselves with the terminology but he did not accept it as a source.

But yes this thread has made me count my blessings for not getting in trouble in College.

 

[ZedsDed]

Unless the celebrity is a patient. Then the privacy laws certainly do apply!

Hospital volunteers in SoCal actually seem to have a hard time understanding this...

 

[Gauss44]

With the exceptions of most of what's in the OP and the last comment, many things on this thread sound like they could easily be the product of a MISUNDERSTANDING AS OPPOSE TO A WRONGDOING. (I am grateful that nothing on here applies to me so far, knock on wood!) But I would hope that at least some interviewers/gatekeepers would be wise and fair enough to at least ASK THE CANDIDATE about the alleged wrongdoing, so they can explain if things are not what they seem to be.

For example, I have known jokers who would put words in people's mouths or post pictures of others that are not what they seemed to be online (some photoshopped), all as a "joke." Many non-premeds do NOT understand how strict this profession can be. Simply avoiding immature and trouble making people is unfortunately NOT an option for everyone who has to live with family or strangers to get by.

Other examples:
Yes or no, questions that are not always binary in reality.
Unintentionally mistaken versus intentionally lying.
Overly vague questions with numerous equally valid interpretations.*
Not applicable questions without an N/A option.
Record keeping mistakes/database problems out of the candidates control.
etc.

*This asterisk is next to a point has arguably been used in the past by organizations to force out candidates that they didn't want (immediately or after a year or whenever). It may or may not be worthwhile to email an organization (in writing) for clarification before answering an overly vague question. On the other hand, that may seem like overkill.

 

[GoljansRightBicep]

A kid in one of the classes I TA'd for got her calculus exam back, on which she had gotten a 64%. She took the exam home, opened up a Word document, and typed up a new copy of the test. She printed out the blank exam, and then filled in all the correct solutions, except for a few deliberate mistakes to make it look genuine. She even went so far as to use a red pen and add in some grader's comments. She then took the exam back to the professor and told him that he had made a mistake, he accidentally entered 64% on Blackboard when "really" she had gotten a 98%. Of course they recognized what she'd done right away, as the grader's comments were in her own handwriting, and she had a history of cheating (it was her second time taking the class).

So yeah. Don't do that.

We had a similar situation come up at my college. The student expertly forged the teacher's handwriting, to the point that even the teacher couldn't tell the difference, and then submitted it for a re-grade. Except this wasn't just a teacher, but a chemistry professor who wasn't about to be outsmarted by a cheating undergrad. So they promptly extracted the ink, ran it through a gas chromatography machine, and compared the retention time to the red ink in their own trusty grading pen. Yikes.

Needless to say, someone got in big trouble.

 

[Lannister]

We had a similar situation come up at my college. The student expertly forged the teacher's handwriting, to the point that even the teacher couldn't tell the difference, and then submitted it for a re-grade. Except this wasn't just a teacher, but a chemistry professor who wasn't about to be outsmarted by a cheating undergrad. So they promptly extracted the ink, ran in through a gas chromatography machine, and compared the retention time to the red ink in their own trusty grading pen. Yikes.

Needless to say, someone got in big trouble.

LOL omg, this is so great, that professor is awesome.

 

[GrapesofRath]

We had a similar situation come up at my college. The student expertly forged the teacher's handwriting, to the point that even the teacher couldn't tell the difference, and then submitted it for a re-grade. Except this wasn't just a teacher, but a chemistry professor who wasn't about to be outsmarted by a cheating undergrad. So they promptly extracted the ink, ran in through a gas chromatography machine, and compared the retention time to the red ink in their own trusty grading pen. Yikes.

Needless to say, someone got in big trouble.

Welp............daaaammnnnn

 

[Spector1]

We had a similar situation come up at my college. The student expertly forged the teacher's handwriting, to the point that even the teacher couldn't tell the difference, and then submitted it for a re-grade. Except this wasn't just a teacher, but a chemistry professor who wasn't about to be outsmarted by a cheating undergrad. So they promptly extracted the ink, ran in through a gas chromatography machine, and compared the retention time to the red ink in their own trusty grading pen. Yikes.

Needless to say, someone got in big trouble.

At my school, they scan every test before they give it back to you so you can't pull stuff like that.

 

[Doudline]

We had a similar situation come up at my college. The student expertly forged the teacher's handwriting, to the point that even the teacher couldn't tell the difference, and then submitted it for a re-grade. Except this wasn't just a teacher, but a chemistry professor who wasn't about to be outsmarted by a cheating undergrad. So they promptly extracted the ink, ran in through a gas chromatography machine, and compared the retention time to the red ink in their own trusty grading pen. Yikes.

Needless to say, someone got in big trouble.

This kind of evidence is not accepted in court for a good reason: it's completely unreliable.

 

[GoljansRightBicep]

At my school, they scan every test before they give it back to you so you can't pull stuff like that.

Wow, that's super thorough. I wish every school did that, cheating really needs to be cracked down on IMO.

 

[ZedsDed]

Wow, that's super thorough. I wish every school did that, cheating really needs to be cracked down on IMO.

In Ca I believe all UCs have to do this. I thought it was the norm everywhere?

 

[Spector1]

In Ca I believe all UCs have to do this. I thought it was the norm everywhere?

well not all UC classes, usually only the science classes use gradescope/pandagrader

 

[Thermometer]

I'm actually taken aback by most of this. I can't believe people actually do this stuff! I've never felt like such an innocent little dweeb. Changing your test and handing it back?! I'm sorry, but I have trouble believing that anyone who wants to be a doctor would commit such a dishonest act.

 

[Mad Jack]

UpToDate, which you'll have access to as a med student if your school has a subscription or Google to PUBMed

See, we have CMAPping sessions where we have to concept map things. A good way to start is going to Wikipedia, as it will often have a basic mechanism and such, then using the information you gleam from there as keywords for your UpToDate and other library searches. It isn't a final destination, it is a starting point.

 

[Spinach Dip]

We had a similar situation come up at my college. The student expertly forged the teacher's handwriting, to the point that even the teacher couldn't tell the difference, and then submitted it for a re-grade. Except this wasn't just a teacher, but a chemistry professor who wasn't about to be outsmarted by a cheating undergrad. So they promptly extracted the ink, ran in through a gas chromatography machine, and compared the retention time to the red ink in their own trusty grading pen. Yikes.

Needless to say, someone got in big trouble.

gg no re

 

[GoljansRightBicep]

In Ca I believe all UCs have to do this. I thought it was the norm everywhere?

I can't speak for UC's, but I know that not all CSU's do this (I've never even heard of it being done before...)

 

[frosted_flake]

Who uses scantron in college?

Professors at my school and it drives me NUTS!

 

[beebreezy]

Wait, buying teachers' versions of textbooks is considered academic dishonesty? I've had several professors encourage us to use them for explanations on how to solve problems we're stuck on. Hell, my organic professor put a copy of the solution manual on reserve in the library for us.

 

[LizzyM]

Wait, buying teachers' versions of textbooks is considered academic dishonesty? I've had several professors encourage us to use them for explanations on how to solve problems we're stuck on. Hell, my organic professor put a copy of the solution manual on reserve in the library for us.

If your professor permits a certain material, then it will be acceptable. If you want to use material that the professor has not endorsed, ask before you use it. If you are afraid to ask, that might be a clue that it could be considered dishonest to use it.

 

[beebreezy]

If your professor permits a certain material, then it will be acceptable. If you want to use material that the professor has not endorsed, ask before you use it. If you are afraid to ask, that might be a clue that it could be considered dishonest to use it.

Reasonable enough. I guess I'm just surprised professors would even take issue with students using the manuals. They're in many ways an invaluable study resource. Access to a bunch of problems with no way to check if you're getting the right answer is much less useful than the ability to check your work and see if you're on the right track.

On another note, I kinda hate anyone who gets to take Scantron organic exams. Not being able to pull the right reagent or reaction pattern out of my memory was most of the struggle in organic. It's a whole different ballgame if the answer is right there in front of your face as one of four options in case it's not as well-cemented in your memory as it could be.

 

[deleted393595]

Another one: Flirting with your interviewer during the interview

 

[LizzyM]

Another one: Flirting with your interviewer during the interview

Not always a deal breaker.

 

[steelersfan1243]

Not always a deal breaker.

I should have not read this

*brings out his handy-dandy book of pick up lines*

 

[Spector1]

Don't a lot of textbooks nowadays have solution manuals along with the textbook?? I know my Chemistry book had a separate solutions manual with worked out problems that students used for homework. Or I think you can buy the solutions online as well.

Also, I'd think by now a lot of professors and/or AIs are aware that students look up the answers. A Physics AI basically knew that 85% of the class had a solutions manual because the grades on the hw didn't match up with grades on the test, but I don't think anything happened.

for most of my prereq classes, there was no "required homework" that was graded. The prof just said I "recommend" you do these problems before the test which of course most people did.