Where are all the gung-ho, incoming pharmacy students now?

[BMBiology]

Search for:

"Hawaii college of pharmacy"
"Cap on student loan forgiveness" (already proposed)
"Gold"
"Bond"
"Pharmacy saturation"

Etc.

Thank you

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I wanted examples, I'm not searching through forums. So what did you say about gold and bonds?

 

[BMBiology]

Get your secretary to do it for you.

I am not here to "win" you or anybody else over. I am here just to post.

 

[wagrxm2000]

You seem to be here to scare people away from our profession. Are we looking at saturation in the future? Yes but that will hurt students that go through school without a plan. Instead of continuing to say get out, huge debt, etc, give advice. It seems more like trolling then anything else.

So my advice for students is simple: get all your partying out of your system in the first few years and enjoy yourself. After that its time to crack down and specifically find an internship that will open a door for you afterwards.

The question that needs to be asked is for those students that can't find a job how many were planning their future and how many just went through the steps and expected a job? If you are on rotations and by December you don't have a job in line you better get looking.

My school aways had those career days to find internships or midyear.

 

[BMBiology]

^ the saturation hurts everyone from
new grads to middle management.

You shouldn't just look at the saturation as weather or not you will find a job but also at how employers will treat you as a pharmacist when they know they can replace you the next day.

Just look at how new grads are being treated.

 

[PharmtoCS]

bubble bubble bubble

This would have been great advice 10 years ago, 15 if you want to go back to .com v1.0

The days of working 72 hours a day for a startup, getting paid in stock and ramen, and becoming a billionaire on IPO day are long gone.

I was referring more to larger companies such as Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc. that pay $100-150k/year to new grads and provide unicorn benefits including stock options, gourmet meals, on-site dry cleaning facilities, luxury buses to take you to and from work, etc. that would be a pipe dream for someone working in chain retail. I would agree that it is risky to work for a startup that burns through millions in VC funding every month without a viable business model. Most of those will be gone within a few years.

The point is that there are other options out there that have more opportunities for growth, better work environment, and higher pay without having to spend another $200k+ and 4 years.

 

[wagrxm2000]

^ the saturation hurts everyone from
new grads to middle management.

You shouldn't just look at the saturation as weather or not you will find a job but also at how employers will treat you as a pharmacist when they know they can replace you the next day.

Just look at how new grads are being treated.

That applies to all jobs, nothing new. Work hard and that shouldn't matter.

 

[TheTao]

The question that needs to be asked is for those students that can't find a job how many were planning their future and how many just went through the steps and expected a job? If you are on rotations and by December you don't have a job in line you better get looking..

Coming from a field with real job shortages/crappy wages/intense competition (Academic research), I find a lot of what I've read in this thread alarmist at best and paranoid at worst. The days of being "handed a job" are not just gone for the Pharmaceutical field, but EVERY other career I can think of too unless you're from an independently wealthy family.

Based on the all the Pharmacists I know working in any number of capacities, I'd say that the future is bright for anyone willing to pursue opportunities and be flexible.

 

[BMBiology]

That applies to all jobs, nothing new. Work hard and that shouldn't matter.

..because all jobs require 6-8 years commitment and 150-200 k in student loan debt.

 

[nextgenpharmer]

There are actually other fields (read: engineering and finance) that have similar or even much better prospects compared to pharmacy. Even better, they don't require the additional $150k+ debt and 4 years of schooling.

As someone in the workforce in a pharmaceuticals company, I can tell you that finding an engineering job that pays over 100k will take you about 10 years with some luck, it's not that easy to get a engineering job without a master's degree anymore and even then you start out as Associate Engineer making 60k or Engineer making 70-80K and from there you need to do a ton of certifications and mostly experience and compete with a ton of people to move up to Engineer II or III or lead engineer. Although, you won't be taking loans to go to school (unless you go to grad school, which you prob need to in order to make good money), you may never make it to a higher salary. I know way too many people that just never found the opportunity to move up, in the workforce it's a combination of hard work, luck, timing, politics. So please don't tell anyone to not go to professional school in favor of a field such as engineering and finance esp finance shame on you all! lol

 

[wagrxm2000]

..because all jobs require 6-8 years commitment and 150-200 k in student loan debt.

So you think because someone goes to school for that long they should automatically get an amazing job? This still goes back to work hard and have a plan. No one should go through life and expect to be given an amazing job.

 

[68quebec]

It is so simple, don't go to pharmacy school for money.

 

[TheTao]

..because all jobs require 6-8 years commitment and 150-200 k in student loan debt.

I'd say that the majority of the jobs that pays over six figures soon after you finish your training, DO require 6-8 years commitment/150K-200K in debt.

 

[TheTao]

You know I'd really like to hear from people who don't feel entitled to a high salary, speak on attending pharmacy school.

 

[BMBiology]

So you think because someone goes to school for that long they should automatically get an amazing job? This still goes back to work hard and have a plan. No one should go through life and expect to be given an amazing job.

Life is a bet. If you are going to spend that much time and money, you better make sure the odd is in your favor.

Who said anything about an amazing job? I am talking about just a return of your investment.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Life is a bet. If you are going to spend that much time and money, you better make sure the odd is in your favor.

Who said anything about an amazing job? I am talking about just a return of your investment.

So you agree with me? You should put an effort in. Thank you, we're finally done here now that you've seen the light.

Most people who arent weathy consider a job making over 100k amazing.

 

[BMBiology]

You need to ask yourself this: why would a job keeps on paying you 6 figures when all you need now is a 2.7 GPA to get accepted? How does that make sense?

Effort is important but it is just one factor. There are other factors that are innate and there are some factors that you can't control. So don't think I am just going to do A, B , C and I am going to be successful. That is not how the world works especially in pharmacy.

You are tied to a product. The guy down the street dispenses the same Lipitor as you. No one is going to drive miles so he can get his medications from you.

 

[rxglasshalffull]

You need to ask yourself this: why would a job keeps on paying you 6 figures when all you need now is a 2.7 GPA to get accepted? How does that make sense?

Effort is important but it is just one factor. There are other factors that are innate and there are some factors that you can't control. So don't think I am just going to do A, B , C and I am going to be successful. That is not how the world works especially in pharmacy.

You are tied to a product. The guy down the street dispenses the same Lipitor as you. No one is going to drive miles so he can get his medications from you.

enough said

 

[wagrxm2000]

You need to ask yourself this: why would a job keeps on paying you 6 figures when all you need now is a 2.7 GPA to get accepted? How does that make sense?

Effort is important but it is just one factor. There are other factors that are innate and there are some factors that you can't control. So don't think I am just going to do A, B , C and I am going to be successful. That is not how the world works especially in pharmacy.

You are tied to a product. The guy down the street dispenses the same Lipitor as you. No one is going to drive miles so he can get his medications from you.

It shouldn't.

 

[Professionally Lost]

You know I'd really like to hear from people who don't feel entitled to a high salary, speak on attending pharmacy school.

I don't feel entitled to a high salary, rather a modest livable salary with decent stability after putting in as much effort as is required in some college programs. I admittedly began pursuing pharmacy school due to skewed guidance from others in high school (sign on bonuses, job stability, schedule flexibility) and a lack of personal research in either perspective of the current pharmacy field. Now that I am a P1 I acknowledge that I made a mistake because I'm just not passionate enough about a career that it seems I'd have to fight to the death for by the time I graduate. I'd also like to think I've matured in my first two years and can definitively say I have no idea what I want to do with my life. From my experience, most of my class is either a child of a pharmacist or also has no clue what they want to do. For some reason pharmacy is where they ended up and they figure finishing the program is better than waiting to find out what they actually want to do. Salary is a non-issue for me (as long as I can get rid of my student loan debt in a timely manner) but I'm also not used to having a wealthy upbringing to begin with so maybe that contributes to the greediness/enthusiasm of current students?

Side Note: I have a lot of respect for the field of pharmacy but absolutely none for the academic institutions that claim to be "innovating the profession" when the reality is they are herding students blindly into an uncertain field and nabbing their pocketbooks in the process.

 

[TheTao]

Now that I am a P1 I acknowledge that I made a mistake because I'm just not passionate enough about a career that it seems I'd have to fight to the death for by the time I graduate.

Try thinking about job prospects as a PhD student, at least as a Pharmacist you don't have to worry about Pharmacists from all over the world being able to come to the US and increase competition/decrease wages for the few jobs that are out there.

Also, most of the folks that I knew that became Pharmacists were originally pre-med, so I find it difficult to accurately gauge the discontent that seems rampant in the Pharm forums.

 

[rederza]

You know I'd really like to hear from people who don't feel entitled to a high salary, speak on attending pharmacy school.

It isn't even about salary for me anymore.

 

[rederza]

Try thinking about job prospects as a PhD student, at least as a Pharmacist you don't have to worry about Pharmacists from all over the world being able to come to the US and increase competition/decrease wages for the few jobs that are out there.

Also, most of the folks that I knew that became Pharmacists were originally pre-med, so I find it difficult to accurately gauge the discontent that seems rampant in the Pharm forums.

My pharmacist was from Afghanistan where her program is a B.S. She said it wasn't hard to become licensed here, actually her hardest obstacle was passing the english proficiency test. I don't know the rules now, but do international pharmacists need a pharmd when they come over here nowadays?

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

It isn't even about salary for me anymore. I'd rather not end up in the reject pile of healthcare professions. Did I work THIS hard to fight to be a corporate/hospital slave?

Whoever said hard work will be rewarded didn't go to pharmacy school, unless your idea of hard work is maintaining a B-C average. In which case I guess that's what they consider pharmacy now, a job for the sub 3.0'ers and just as well because it doesn't take a 4 year degree to do half this b.s.

Speaking from my school, it's the most unprofessional place I've ever been, which is ironic considering this is what people consider "professional" school.

Cheating is rampant, teachers don't care, more emphasis is put on goading the students to pour their loans into the school so they can open their new multimillion health care center etc etc.

As far as "pharmily" goes, you're a pharmily as long as you're willing to take pictures of old exams, carry around stuffed animals all day to show "perseverance" , and perform embarassing acts at the whims of the older students.

And I go to a Texas school that isn't TSU so it's not like we're some diploma mill.

I am about one more silly antic away from just taking a LOA.

Actually I feel like I just signed up for the circus, except at the circus people are paid to be clowns.

tldr; Pharmacy school destroyed my pride, I think I'll just go join the circus.

Brand new buildings seem to be a common trend amongst pharmacy schools. It's a nice marketing move by these greedy scumbag schools. 'Come to this awesome building to get your piece of paper degree and give me $150,000 while you're at it. We will show you how to be clinically capable in an environment DOMINATED by physicians and nurses. So there's a slight chance your professional opinion will be factored into treating patients. But at least we have your money.'

 

[rederza]

Brand new buildings seem to be a common trend amongst pharmacy schools. It's a nice marketing move by these greedy scumbag schools. 'Come to this awesome building to get your piece of paper degree and give me $150,000 while you're at it. We will show you how to be clinically capable in an environment DOMINATED by physicians and nurses. So there's a slight chance your professional opinion will be factored into treating patients. But at least we have your money.'

It doesn't make any sense to me. Even if residency doesn't have the huge opportunity cost as it did, exactly what use is a clinical pharmacist? Doctors already have the floor, nurses cover the pieces left. They might catch what, 1 in 100 mistakes but are they really worth the extra 100k or so a year?

 

[TheTao]

@redezra, I spent a lot if time recently at a major cancer center and oncology pharmacists were all over the place.

 

[type b pharmD]

If you are REALLY passionate about pharmacy, it is still a good place to be , and hard work IS rewarded at least at the present. I read doom and gloom posts in 2009 when I started school and just about crapped my pants. Fast forward to today, I worked my ass off to develop marketable skills (ignored grades, had a 2.8 pharmacy gpa) and had more offers than I could reasonably choose from and ended up with my dream job.

If you newbies are in it for the wrong reasons you are gonna be cut out of the no longer existant gravy train.. if you are REALLY in it to win it ,you can come out ahead of all the lazy entitled immature asshats trying to get in on what is no longer a sure bet ..

Long story short... Pharmacy is much higher risk and uncertainty than any other healthcare profession and many non doctoral professions as far as risk and reward (yes you may come out with 200k in loans and 90k floater salary , which is a comfortable living on ibr) .. and maybe to many people, that is not worth it .. well pharmacy as a profession has traditionally been kind of hard for a moderate reward compared to other fields ... It is still better than generic science degree, generic engineering degree .. yes maybe its not as good as other healthcare providers in terms of ROI .. that just is what it is .. the bottom line is you don't choose this profession based on ROI on paper.. in early to mid 2000s pharmacy had oversized reward for the risk .. now the pendulum has swung the other way .. the reward is lower than the risk.

If you still want to be a pharmacist because you like the job and can excel at it .. you should still be excited. New pt care programs and growing prescription volume is there to profit off of .. it's just that now, only the best will get a slice of that pie. We have not seen chain salaries stagnate and business keeps doubling every decade , so there is still work and a lot of $ to go around.. but more competition. So if pharmacy is your calling , be excited! There is also a lot of money to be made .. if you are a motivated and personable leader among your peers I don't see how you could gross any less than $1.5mil in your first 10 years of working. Personally I am aiming for 2. Problem is if you are looking for a handout, it is not here for slackers anymore like it was 10 years ago . You can see that it led to a VERY inefficient group of staff who are not concerned at all about business mindset or customer experience and want a free ride .. those people are getting canned in favor of us hungry new guys.

 

[RosemontPharm]

If you are REALLY passionate about pharmacy, it is still a good place to be , and hard work IS rewarded at least at the present. I read doom and gloom posts in 2009 when I started school and just about crapped my pants. Fast forward to today, I worked my ass off to develop marketable skills (ignored grades, had a 2.8 pharmacy gpa) and had more offers than I could reasonably choose from and ended up with my dream job.

If you newbies are in it for the wrong reasons you are gonna be cut out of the no longer existant gravy train.. if you are REALLY in it to win it ,you can come out ahead of all the lazy entitled immature asshats trying to get in on what is no longer a sure bet ..

Long story short... Pharmacy is much higher risk and uncertainty than any other healthcare profession and many non doctoral professions as far as risk and reward (yes you may come out with 200k in loans and 90k floater salary , which is a comfortable living on ibr) .. and maybe to many people, that is not worth it .. well pharmacy as a profession has traditionally been kind of hard for a moderate reward compared to other fields ... It is still better than generic science degree, generic engineering degree .. yes maybe its not as good as other healthcare providers in terms of ROI .. that just is what it is .. the bottom line is you don't choose this profession based on ROI on paper.. in early to mid 2000s pharmacy had oversized reward for the risk .. now the pendulum has swung the other way .. the reward is lower than the risk.

If you still want to be a pharmacist because you like the job and can excel at it .. you should still be excited. New pt care programs and growing prescription volume is there to profit off of .. it's just that now, only the best will get a slice of that pie. We have not seen chain salaries stagnate and business keeps doubling every decade , so there is still work and a lot of $ to go around.. but more competition. So if pharmacy is your calling , be excited! There is also a lot of money to be made .. if you are a motivated and personable leader among your peers I don't see how you could gross any less than $1.5mil in your first 10 years of working. Personally I am aiming for 2. Problem is if you are looking for a handout, it is not here for slackers anymore like it was 10 years ago . You can see that it led to a VERY inefficient group of staff who are not concerned at all about business mindset or customer experience and want a free ride .. those people are getting canned in favor of us hungry new guys.

As a student, I'm really interested in what marketable skills I should develop.

Can you share? Thanks in advance!

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

As a student, I'm really interested in what marketable skills I should develop.

Can you share? Thanks in advance!

Maybe someone has the answer to that ... all we get from our faculty and staff is "get involved, and NETWORK" with no contextual basis. I guess the networking aspect really comes into play during your APPE year, where you impress your preceptors with both knowledge and ability to carry out conversations/small-talk. The get involved part still boggles me because these organizations and its members are full of major derpwads whose major intents are to promote themselves.

 

[Gombrich12]

If everyone is networking then it obviously won't benefit you. "Networking" is a buzz word that administrators like to use to shut down any discussion of what you are supposed to do to find a job or if there are even enough jobs out there for everyone. It's a way of passing all of the responsibility for finding a job to you instead of there being shared responsibility between the school and student. After all, you've spent 4 years and 100,000+ dollars you should have a reasonable expectation of finding a decent job.

 

[W19]

I guess the doom and gloom is not only in the allo forum...

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

If everyone is networking then it obviously won't benefit you. "Networking" is a buzz word that administrators like to use to shut down any discussion of what you are supposed to do to find a job or if there are even enough jobs out there for everyone. It's a way of passing all of the responsibility for finding a job to you instead of there being shared responsibility between the school and student. After all, you've spent 4 years and 100,000+ dollars you should have a reasonable expectation of finding a decent job.

ABSOLUTELY well put.

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

I guess the doom and gloom is not only in the allo forum...

At least many of you guys will be employed (except for the unlucky IMG/FMG's that couldn't match) in residency and beyond. There's the opportunity to stand out with good performance on USMLE Step 1/2 through honest and hard work. The adage "you get what you put in" still holds meaning in medical school. I know residency can get tough, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
With pharmacy school, I'd be shocked to see ANY kind of positive correlation between academic performance and employment. Sure, academic performance might get one a residency - but the job market is so glutted with graduates and residents - how much of an edge can you get?

 

[BidingMyTime]

Long story short... Pharmacy is much higher risk and uncertainty than any other healthcare profession and many non doctoral professions as far as risk and reward

No its not. People here seem to think pharmacy is the only career with big loans (comparable to salary), and the only career field that doesn't have a 100% employment rate. Pharmacy unemployment rate varies by area, but lets say an average of 5%.
Well, lets look at doctors. 5% of graduating doctors didn't match for residency this year. No residency means they can't work as doctors & they are stuck with 8 years of college debt. Unlike the unemployed pharmacists who can conceivably move & keep applying until they get a job, the unmatched doctor has to wait a whole year and then apply again for the residency match (against all the other new grads), knowing their chances are probably even lower than in their first match.

Well, how about nursing? They are having to deal with a big influx of foreign nurses taking their jobs at low wages. They can easily have a $40,000-$50,000 loan (which they are paying for with their $20 -25/hr job) Now the $20 - $25/hr job would be starting in a hospital, mostly likely swing shifts. If they actually managed to get a non-hospital job (about as rare as pharmacy clinical positions), those jobs will pay much less.

How about veterinarians? I hope they love animals, because they will be working long hours for $50,000 - $60,000/yr to pay off their $200,000 - $300,000 college debt.

Dentists? Their salaries are all over the place, but most of them earn their own business, which means huge start-up costs on top of their $200,000 - $300,000 college debt (or working for a low salary in a work to earn the business arrangement with a retiring dentist.) And with new mid-levels encroaching on their territory, they have all the worries about unemployment as everyone else.

People talk about how great engineering & computers & whatever else is. These fields all have pockets of very high unemployment. They often are "project" based, meaning the great job you have today may be gone by next year.

Here is the real truth. Every profession, every field is hurting. A good reason why is baby boomers are living longer than ever & they aren't retiring. Because many baby boomers lived irresponsibily and did not save up for retirement (or they naively thought medicare or their pension plan would always be there & always keep up with the cost of living).....they can't afford to retire. This isn't going to change anytime soon. The average life span is 80 years & climbing. I don't see any improvements on the career front, in any career until baby boomers start dying off (which won't happen in great numbers until 2025) After that, it will be a boon in all fields.

So, there is no point in trying to find a "good" career field, none exists. Pick a career you will enjoy, and then bide your time until 2025 for employment opportunities. Of course, if the politicians decide to open US boarders by then....well, then there will still be no career opportunities.

 

[BKpharm]

I think one of the main issues with the profession, is that it attracted lots of people just for the money not for the major itself.. Back then when the money wasn't that good, people did it because they wanted to do it.. But u tell a high school student you could be making $100,000 at 23/24 years old.. They might not think twice.. Of course schools took advantage of that.. All of this caused the over saturation and pharmacist being worked very hard bec they can be replaced at anytime by newer person who ll take less money

 

[TheTao]

@Bidding, given that obesity is epidemic in folks born after ~ 1980, be mindful that the funeral you're planning isn't your own.

 

[BidingMyTime]

@Bidding, given that obesity is epidemic in folks born after ~ 1980, be mindful that the funeral you're planning isn't your own.

Hmmmmm, but I guess that will be good for the pharmacist saturation! Maybe the baby boomers will outlive everyone....

 

[BKpharm]

No its not. People here seem to think pharmacy is the only career with big loans (comparable to salary), and the only career field that doesn't have a 100% employment rate. Pharmacy unemployment rate varies by area, but lets say an average of 5%.
Well, lets look at doctors. 5% of graduating doctors didn't match for residency this year. No residency means they can't work as doctors & they are stuck with 8 years of college debt. Unlike the unemployed pharmacists who can conceivably move & keep applying until they get a job, the unmatched doctor has to wait a whole year and then apply again for the residency match (against all the other new grads), knowing their chances are probably even lower than in their first match.

Well, how about nursing? They are having to deal with a big influx of foreign nurses taking their jobs at low wages. They can easily have a $40,000-$50,000 loan (which they are paying for with their $20 -25/hr job) Now the $20 - $25/hr job would be starting in a hospital, mostly likely swing shifts. If they actually managed to get a non-hospital job (about as rare as pharmacy clinical positions), those jobs will pay much less.

How about veterinarians? I hope they love animals, because they will be working long hours for $50,000 - $60,000/yr to pay off their $200,000 - $300,000 college debt.

Dentists? Their salaries are all over the place, but most of them earn their own business, which means huge start-up costs on top of their $200,000 - $300,000 college debt (or working for a low salary in a work to earn the business arrangement with a retiring dentist.) And with new mid-levels encroaching on their territory, they have all the worries about unemployment as everyone else.

People talk about how great engineering & computers & whatever else is. These fields all have pockets of very high unemployment. They often are "project" based, meaning the great job you have today may be gone by next year.

Here is the real truth. Every profession, every field is hurting. A good reason why is baby boomers are living longer than ever & they aren't retiring. Because many baby boomers lived irresponsibily and did not save up for retirement (or they naively thought medicare or their pension plan would always be there & always keep up with the cost of living).....they can't afford to retire. This isn't going to change anytime soon. The average life span is 80 years & climbing. I don't see any improvements on the career front, in any career until baby boomers start dying off (which won't happen in great numbers until 2025) After that, it will be a boon in all fields.

So, there is no point in trying to find a "good" career field, none exists. Pick a career you will enjoy, and then bide your time until 2025 for employment opportunities. Of course, if the politicians decide to open US boarders by then....well, then there will still be no career opportunities.

True dat.. +1

 

[Baller MD]

So you think because someone goes to school for that long they should automatically get an amazing job? This still goes back to work hard and have a plan. No one should go through life and expect to be given an amazing job.

That is how it is for dental and med students lulz.

 

[Baller MD]

No its not. People here seem to think pharmacy is the only career with big loans (comparable to salary), and the only career field that doesn't have a 100% employment rate. Pharmacy unemployment rate varies by area, but lets say an average of 5%.
Well, lets look at doctors. 5% of graduating doctors didn't match for residency this year. No residency means they can't work as doctors & they are stuck with 8 years of college debt. Unlike the unemployed pharmacists who can conceivably move & keep applying until they get a job, the unmatched doctor has to wait a whole year and then apply again for the residency match (against all the other new grads), knowing their chances are probably even lower than in their first match.

Well, how about nursing? They are having to deal with a big influx of foreign nurses taking their jobs at low wages. They can easily have a $40,000-$50,000 loan (which they are paying for with their $20 -25/hr job) Now the $20 - $25/hr job would be starting in a hospital, mostly likely swing shifts. If they actually managed to get a non-hospital job (about as rare as pharmacy clinical positions), those jobs will pay much less.

How about veterinarians? I hope they love animals, because they will be working long hours for $50,000 - $60,000/yr to pay off their $200,000 - $300,000 college debt.

Dentists? Their salaries are all over the place, but most of them earn their own business, which means huge start-up costs on top of their $200,000 - $300,000 college debt (or working for a low salary in a work to earn the business arrangement with a retiring dentist.) And with new mid-levels encroaching on their territory, they have all the worries about unemployment as everyone else.

People talk about how great engineering & computers & whatever else is. These fields all have pockets of very high unemployment. They often are "project" based, meaning the great job you have today may be gone by next year.

Here is the real truth. Every profession, every field is hurting. A good reason why is baby boomers are living longer than ever & they aren't retiring. Because many baby boomers lived irresponsibily and did not save up for retirement (or they naively thought medicare or their pension plan would always be there & always keep up with the cost of living).....they can't afford to retire. This isn't going to change anytime soon. The average life span is 80 years & climbing. I don't see any improvements on the career front, in any career until baby boomers start dying off (which won't happen in great numbers until 2025) After that, it will be a boon in all fields.

So, there is no point in trying to find a "good" career field, none exists. Pick a career you will enjoy, and then bide your time until 2025 for employment opportunities. Of course, if the politicians decide to open US boarders by then....well, then there will still be no career opportunities.

5% didn't match? Is that before they SOAP or after? If it is before, most students end up matching and the percentage I would guess is much lower than that of a pharmacist who have difficulty finding a job in their desired area. Also, you have to consider some med students try to apply to residencies that are out of their reach because they didn't do well enough as a med student. So a matter of matching isn't a big deal.

However, there are some fields of medicine that is like pharmacy right now in terms of bad job prospects including pathology and radiology. That should be more concerning, not matching.

 

[BidingMyTime]

5% didn't match? Is that before they SOAP or after? If it is before, most students end up matching and the percentage I would guess is much lower than that of a pharmacist who have difficulty finding a job in their desired area. Also, you have to consider some med students try to apply to residencies that are out of their reach because they didn't do well enough as a med student. So a matter of matching isn't a big deal.

I do believe the 5% is before SOAP, I'm not sure what the percent is afterwards. Residency matching is a big deal though, since med school graduates are going up, but the # of residencies is decreasing. Of course, the vast majority of doctors do finish residencies. But then, the vast majority of pharmacists do get 6-figure jobs (but yeah, maybe not in their desired area, but then that would be comparable to a doctor not getting their desired match either.)
Unemployed pharmacists pretty much fall into 2 catagories....1) they refuse to work outside of a narrow geographical area or 2) they refuse to work outside of hospital. Any outliers from these 2 catagories are few and far between.

 

[Baller MD]

I do believe the 5% is before SOAP, I'm not sure what the percent is afterwards. Residency matching is a big deal though, since med school graduates are going up, but the # of residencies is decreasing. Of course, the vast majority of doctors do finish residencies. But then, the vast majority of pharmacists do get 6-figure jobs (but yeah, maybe not in their desired area, but then that would be comparable to a doctor not getting their desired match either.)
Unemployed pharmacists pretty much fall into 2 catagories....1) they refuse to work outside of a narrow geographical area or 2) they refuse to work outside of hospital. Any outliers from these 2 catagories are few and far between.

No it's not. Only if you go to a ****ty medical school in the Carribean or an unknown DO school. Go look at the match stats for US MD students. They are very successful.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Does anyone have data about % of unemployed pharmacists? All I can say as a former nurse is that the BS is everywhere. My classmate in nursing school who became a pharmacist a year ago told me there are a lot more BS in nursing than pharmacy... She even said: 'it's better to take some BS making 130k than taking a lot BS for 60k'... That was her words. I guess the healthcare field has a lot of BS, but it is arguably one of the safest field in term of job security...

 

[xiphoid2010]

I was one of the gun-ho students. Being Asian, always was, and even grown to like the feeling of crushing your opponents, watch then flee before you, and hear the lament of their women. Oh, wait, just watched Conan.

To be honest, being on over achiever has paid off for me. I once boasted to my wife that my goal was to make DOP win 5 years after graduation. Well, that happened in 2 yrs, and academic excellence, residency training, high recommendations, strong work ethic and fate all contributed to that.

But being an over achiever also causing me now to wonder: am I happy? I got married shortly after graduation to my classmate, paid off our loans in 3 yrs, have 2 beautiful kids, got everything that a model family should have. All objectives I aimed for. But am I happy? Maybe I was too focused on my career, so I passed up 2 advancement opportunities to stay with my family, but I'm still wondering am I happy?

The answer I keep finding is 50/50. Sometimes I am, but sometimes not. I wish I was simpler and more easily satisfied, but I guess being gun-ho since the start, I constantly have to to be working and achieving some goal to stay happy, but it can be so tiring. Being gun-ho will take you further than not, but maybe it will also make it harder to be satisfied with what you have.

 

[BMBiology]

^ you will never be satisfied when you work for a corporation.

 

[Jibby321]

As someone in the workforce in a pharmaceuticals company, I can tell you that finding an engineering job that pays over 100k will take you about 10 years with some luck, it's not that easy to get a engineering job without a master's degree anymore and even then you start out as Associate Engineer making 60k or Engineer making 70-80K and from there you need to do a ton of certifications and mostly experience and compete with a ton of people to move up to Engineer II or III or lead engineer. Although, you won't be taking loans to go to school (unless you go to grad school, which you prob need to in order to make good money), you may never make it to a higher salary. I know way too many people that just never found the opportunity to move up, in the workforce it's a combination of hard work, luck, timing, politics. So please don't tell anyone to not go to professional school in favor of a field such as engineering and finance esp finance shame on you all! lol

I have a friend who graduated with an engineering and he got his first job and it's paying a whopping 38K a year.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I have a friend who graduated with an engineering and he got his first job and it's paying a whopping 38K a year.

I have been telling people that 'the grass always looks greener on the other side' until you are there... I have seen many in SDN keep posting about engineering being great... NO it's not for most... Most engineers are stucked with jobs making less than 70k for years... I know someone who graduated from MIT and the best offer she got was <75k... It's a great gig for a 23 year old with no debt, but I thought coming from a school like that would get her at least 100k...

 

[TheTao]

I have been telling people that 'the grass always looks greener on the other side' until you are there... I have seen many in SDN keep posting about engineering being great... NO it's not for most... Most engineers are stucked with jobs making less than 70k for years... I know someone who graduated from MIT and the best offer she got was <75k... It's a great gig for a 23 year old with no debt, but I thought coming from a school like that would get her at least 100k...

In the real world, no really gives a $hit where a person went to school, EVERYONE is expected to pay their dues and work their way up to a 6-figure salary!!

 

[oldstock]

In the real world, no really gives a $hit where a person went to school, EVERYONE is expected to pay their dues and work their way up to a 6-figure salary!!

c'mon, you know yourself what you've just said there is not entirely true !!

 

[BestDoctorEver]

In the real world, no really gives a $hit where a person went to school, EVERYONE is expected to pay their dues and work their way up to a 6-figure salary!!

To be honest with you, I was shocked when that girl's mom told me that was the best offer she got (a MIT grad!). I feel like many in SDN and especially people in pharmacy and allo don't realize how difficult is it to break into the six figure. Less than 10% of americans make 100k+/year and the two pharmacists that I know make 130K+; therefore, it's not that bad. But I think pharmacy organizations should try to put a break on pharm school expansion before you guys become like law school--only graduates from the top 14 can command high salary...