Which clinical rotation is the worst?

[getunconcsious]

I'm hoping it's the one I'm on now....it feels like my own personal hell. Anyways those of you MS4's who have done them all--what did yall think?

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[MonkeyRalph]

The worst:
1. Neurology: So boring... you can't really do anything but shadow and do a bunch of neuro exams (at least that's how it is at my school)
2. OB/GYN: Some very mean residents and attendings made this unbearable for me. I don't know anyone who liked this rotation. On the upside, it goes by quick and the shelf isn't as difficult as the others (IMHO).
3. Medicine: I personally cannot stand outpatient medicine clinic... and the rotation is super long, but you do learn SOOOO much, which makes it worthwhile.

 

[lord_jeebus]

During my OB/Gyn rotation I developed IBS. God that sucked.

Since it ended I've been asymptomatic.

 

[cbass1350]

I am going to have to go with neurology also. I consumed enough coffee during that rotation to bury Columbia itself.

 

[Llenroc]

I'm surprised to see Neurology on the list. At my school, everyone looks forward to Neurology. It's a totally laid back rotation, with an easy non-shelf exam at the end. It does involve a lot of H&P's, but once you get adept at the Neuro exam you can crank them out fast.

 

[eirinn152]

neurology sucked, i'm glad to see i'm not the only one who despised it. surgery was equally as terrible, you're the lowest man/woman on the totem pole who has to deal with the **** of a bunch of dingus residents who think they're god's gift to the world, and it's for 8 weeks (at my school). thanx for the vent.....

 

[dentate_gyrus]

Family medicine - learned very very little new stuff. This is a hodge podge of med/peds/ob, really nothing unique. Easy.

Outpatient peds - most boring rotation ever. I want those weeks back.

Psych - easy but too slowly paced. If it weren't for the wacky personalities of the attendings I would have gone into a coma on this one.

Loved everything else.

 

[getunconcsious]

I was kind of hoping for this result...I'm on OB-Gyn right now and if it gets any worse than this I'm seriously gonna consider dropping out! The catty residents and attendings, disgusting deliveries, SO MUCH BLOOD, and not to mention their surgeries are boring they have like 4 of them that they do over and over again. If I never have to see another caesarean section, D&C, or hysterectomy life will be good! Not to mention the marathon incontinence surgeries!

But seriously, what makes it so unpleasant isn't the work so much as it is the personalities...ugh.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I was kind of hoping for this result...I'm on OB-Gyn right now and if it gets any worse than this I'm seriously gonna consider dropping out! The catty residents and attendings, disgusting deliveries, SO MUCH BLOOD, and not to mention their surgeries are boring they have like 4 of them that they do over and over again. If I never have to see another caesarean section, D&C, or hysterectomy life will be good! Not to mention the marathon incontinence surgeries!

But seriously, what makes it so unpleasant isn't the work so much as it is the personalities...ugh.

If it helps any, after my first day of OB, I went home and cried. I was told to come the next day at 5am and to pre round on all the postpartum patients, mind you no one had told me what to do or what to look for. The surgeries were always the same, I got yelled at for pulling the retractors out too soon or too late, got splashed in blood all the time, got stuck with a needle and harassed for the rest of the rotation after that. I was also yelled at for not knowing how to deliver a baby on my first day of the LD part. I was told that I had to present a patient at morning report at 5am when I was totally unaware that I had to do so, after a very long night of call where I wasn't allowed to go to sleep, and I was gangpimped for about 30minutes by the attending and chief resident who did not want me to report the needle stick incident. Of course, I cried after that too. Don't worry, everyone I have talked to has hated OB. 90% of residents are catty, crazy, and evil. Many of the attendings, not all, are the same. Just be happy that it lasts only 6weeks, at least at my school, and that OB is one of the worst rotations for most people. Hang in there, and don't quit!

 

[Top Gun]

I was gangpimped for about 30minutes by the attending and chief resident who did not want me to report the needle stick incident.

That is unacceptable on the part of the attending and chief resident. What if the patient had been HIV or hep C positive? A needle stick incident needs to be reported promptly so that the student can receive HIV prophylaxis as soon as possible. That the attending and other residents harassed you for getting stuck, and did not want you to report the incident, speaks volumes about how malignant your program is.

 

[153445]

Medstudentquest, your post seems so dead-on in describing OB Gyn. I, too, got a needlestick (during my first C-section), and have gotten chewed out for stuff I didn't know we had to know coming in. It's not like we had OB Gyn class (and a week of repro doesn't count). The sad thing is that the rotation would be more bearable if we knew what we were getting into and that OB Gyn people are not necessarily nicer than (or as nice as) full-time surgeons. If I had been mentally prepared for that, I think I wouldn't have found myself in a private staff bathroom crying during my first full week.

 

[ChildNeuro]

My experience in Ob/Gyn made me lose faith in ability of human beings to be kind to each other. Ob/Gyn is a very dehumanizing experience. I constantly remember those psychology experiments where they see how many volts a regular joe from the street would administer to a "volunteer" (who wasn't really shocked), but who pretended to be electrocuted. The average Joe when ordered by a "doctor", simply a person in a white coat, would increase the "voltage" by hundreds of volts although the volunteer screamed. I think that they take normal medical students into ob/gyn residency and turn them into people who are at ease with inflicting pain, humiliation and mental anguish in medical students via almost every known dirty tactic, if the medical profession was the army, Ob/Gyns would be the people who's job it is to kidnap terrorists and torture them to death in secret facilities. By the same analogy I guess internists would your standard army corps, surgeons the hot-shot fighter pilots, radiologists the radar technicians in the battleship, pathologists would handle what they still do, family practice docs would be the army corps of engineers who try to get clean water to people, neurologists would be communications officiers who man the electronic communication networks, pediatricians would be those standard troops in the news who are seen playing soccer with children or helping to rescue people kidnapped by terrorists.

Why are Ob/Gyns allowed to treat students so poorly? How do residencies even get enough applicants for Ob/Gyn?

 

[Medstudentquest]

My experience in Ob/Gyn made me lose faith in ability of human beings to be kind to each other. Ob/Gyn is a very dehumanizing experience. I constantly remember those psychology experiments where they see how many volts a regular joe from the street would administer to a "volunteer" (who wasn't really shocked), but who pretended to be electrocuted. The average Joe when ordered by a "doctor", simply a person in a white coat, would increase the "voltage" by hundreds of volts although the volunteer screamed. I think that they take normal medical students into ob/gyn residency and turn them into people who are at ease with inflicting pain, humiliation and mental anguish in medical students via almost every known dirty tactic, if the medical profession was the army, Ob/Gyns would be the people who's job it is to kidnap terrorists and torture them to death in secret facilities. By the same analogy I guess internists would your standard army corps, surgeons the hot-shot fighter pilots, radiologists the radar technicians in the battleship, pathologists would handle what they still do, family practice docs would be the army corps of engineers who try to get clean water to people, neurologists would be communications officiers who man the electronic communication networks, pediatricians would be those standard troops in the news who are seen playing soccer with children or helping to rescue people kidnapped by terrorists.

Why are Ob/Gyns allowed to treat students so poorly? How do residencies even get enough applicants for Ob/Gyn?

You know, I have wondered how this goes unchecked in OB programs. I mean it's one thing to get yelled at a few times if a resident is having a bad day or if one screwed up royally. But to get mentally abused how Ob residents and attendings do on an every day basis is simply unacceptable. I believe that as medical students, we should unite and do something about it. I don't believe it's acceptable. I mean I personally have not had surgery yet, but I have heard of many people having great experiences in surgery, yet I have not heard of one person saying, wow! what a great Ob experience I had. I don't think this is by chance. I say we unite and make a change happen with Ob!

 

[Medstudentquest]

That is unacceptable on the part of the attending and chief resident. What if the patient had been HIV or hep C positive? A needle stick incident needs to be reported promptly so that the student can receive HIV prophylaxis as soon as possible. That the attending and other residents harassed you for getting stuck, and did not want you to report the incident, speaks volumes about how malignant your program is.

I agree. When I complained to the director about getting screwed on my grade, she initially said I dont see how there is a relationship between the two events. I was like, well let's see. I got an outstanding on my mid rotation eval (which I got at the end of the 4th week reall), days before the needle stick incident. I got graded by all these people I never worked with! and they had the audacity to not even sign the evals and I got a proficient. None of the people who worked with me for weeks were allowed to grade me and the resident w/whom I worked for about 4 weeks who said great stuff about me, that eval was dismissed.

What's terrible also is that when I went down to the ER, the dr and the nurses said well you can have the patient tested as well. I said yes I'd like that and I put that in a letter to the site director! The patient was there several days and they did not test the patient, which would have taken about 5 minutes. The patient came back twice-never got checked. On my evals, all these lies were written. It was disgusting and even the needle stick incident was talked about! I was like how can anyone not see the unfairness with this? I wonder if there is some sort of abuse hotline or whether the AMA somehow does anything about these kinds of things. Oh and also, they billed me for everything. The nerve!

 

[EvoDevo]

My experience in Ob/Gyn made me lose faith in ability of human beings to be kind to each other. Ob/Gyn is a very dehumanizing experience. I constantly remember those psychology experiments where they see how many volts a regular joe from the street would administer to a "volunteer" (who wasn't really shocked), but who pretended to be electrocuted. The average Joe when ordered by a "doctor", simply a person in a white coat, would increase the "voltage" by hundreds of volts although the volunteer screamed. I think that they take normal medical students into ob/gyn residency and turn them into people who are at ease with inflicting pain, humiliation and mental anguish in medical students via almost every known dirty tactic, if the medical profession was the army, Ob/Gyns would be the people who's job it is to kidnap terrorists and torture them to death in secret facilities. By the same analogy I guess internists would your standard army corps, surgeons the hot-shot fighter pilots, radiologists the radar technicians in the battleship, pathologists would handle what they still do, family practice docs would be the army corps of engineers who try to get clean water to people, neurologists would be communications officiers who man the electronic communication networks, pediatricians would be those standard troops in the news who are seen playing soccer with children or helping to rescue people kidnapped by terrorists.

Why are Ob/Gyns allowed to treat students so poorly? How do residencies even get enough applicants for Ob/Gyn?

I am sorry that you have had/are having such an awful experience. However, I think it's a mistake to take your own experience and generalize it to the entire profession. I honestly thought that I would hate this rotation and instead I am loving every minute of it.

That said, it's entirely possible that your experience stems from a malignant program. I have friends at other med schools who have related horrible OBGYN experiences, while others have reported just the opposite. So if you or anyone else is really interested in the field, don't give up. Look into doing a one month away rotation at a place with a well-regarded and benign program.

Good luck.

 

[TexasRose]

I think that they take normal medical students into ob/gyn residency and turn them into people who are at ease with inflicting pain, humiliation and mental anguish in medical students via almost every known dirty tactic, if the medical profession was the army, Ob/Gyns would be the people who's job it is to kidnap terrorists and torture them to death in secret facilities.

Wow.

I know a lot of generalizations get made on sdn, but wow.

I can't say I loved my Obgyn rotation, because I really disliked outpatient gyn, but I was treated very decently by the residents and attendings. I would hardly characterize them as torturers.

 

[nykka3]

That said, it's entirely possible that your experience stems from a malignant program. I have friends at other med schools who have related horrible OBGYN experiences, while others have reported just the opposite. So if you or anyone else is really interested in the field, don't give up. Look into doing a one month away rotation at a place with a well-regarded and benign program.

Good luck.

I agree. I had a poor experience during a shadowing experience as a freshman and swore off the profession. I even made sure ob/gyn was my first rotation so i could get it out of the way. Well, even though the hours were tough and some of the attitudes were toxic, I learned and got along with a lot of residents and faculty. I have experienced toxic and great ppl in all of the rotations during 3rd year....including pedi and psych. I would also recommend doing an away rotation at another prgm for those who are interested in ob/gyn but hated their rotation at their home institution. I am glad I did b/c I plan to apply to residency prgms this fall. I know residency will be stressful but I don't plan to turn into the stereotypical B**** ob/gyn resident that some of my friend's claim i will become.

 

[ChildNeuro]

You know, I have wondered how this goes unchecked in OB programs. I mean it's one thing to get yelled at a few times if a resident is having a bad day or if one screwed up royally. But to get mentally abused how Ob residents and attendings do on an every day basis is simply unacceptable. I believe that as medical students, we should unite and do something about it. I don't believe it's acceptable. I mean I personally have not had surgery yet, but I have heard of many people having great experiences in surgery, yet I have not heard of one person saying, wow! what a great Ob experience I had. I don't think this is by chance. I say we unite and make a change happen with Ob!

I think that a national movement to reform Ob/Gyn clerkships nationwide would be a great step in relieving the suffering of so many medical students and produce more humanistic physicians. There is a logic in Ob/Gyn that has nothing to do with rationality, after my Ob/Gyn my nervers were fried, and the treatment by attendings and evaluations have much less correlation with how well you do, or how hard you work and can leave you feeling very disillusioned with medicine.

 

[ChildNeuro]

Wow.

I know a lot of generalizations get made on sdn, but wow.

I can't say I loved my Obgyn rotation, because I really disliked outpatient gyn, but I was treated very decently by the residents and attendings. I would hardly characterize them as torturers.

Some "toxic" or "malignant" sites perpetuate an environment of abuse of the student, whereas other sites will treat you quite well and are more like a rational medicine clerkship. While it is bad to generalize, we make generalizations all the time in medicine like most patients with disease x had risk factor y, etc. . . most cases of right sided heart failure are caused by . . . attendings certainly make generalizations about students. I wouldn't want to malign the entire ob/gyn field, obviously there are some excellent preceptors, however, it maybe true that on a whole, via medical culture as it stands today, ob/gyn clerkships, IMHO, allow a level of abuse not seen on other clerkships. . . this is what needs to be addressed.

 

[ChildNeuro]

I agree. When I complained to the director about getting screwed on my grade, she initially said I dont see how there is a relationship between the two events. I was like, well let's see. I got an outstanding on my mid rotation eval (which I got at the end of the 4th week reall), days before the needle stick incident. I got graded by all these people I never worked with! and they had the audacity to not even sign the evals and I got a proficient. None of the people who worked with me for weeks were allowed to grade me and the resident w/whom I worked for about 4 weeks who said great stuff about me, that eval was dismissed.

What's terrible also is that when I went down to the ER, the dr and the nurses said well you can have the patient tested as well. I said yes I'd like that and I put that in a letter to the site director! The patient was there several days and they did not test the patient, which would have taken about 5 minutes. The patient came back twice-never got checked. On my evals, all these lies were written. It was disgusting and even the needle stick incident was talked about! I was like how can anyone not see the unfairness with this? I wonder if there is some sort of abuse hotline or whether the AMA somehow does anything about these kinds of things. Oh and also, they billed me for everything. The nerve!

Wow, grades can be used as a form of punishment of medical students for protesting medical student abuse, I have seen this happen, they probably gave you a bad grade to intimidate you into not blabbing about the needle stick incident. Some schools do have an abuse holine, i.e. my attending is yelling at me everyday and I can barely stand it, please help me. I believe the school that has this is one in New York.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Some "toxic" or "malignant" sites perpetuate an environment of abuse of the student, whereas other sites will treat you quite well and are more like a rational medicine clerkship. While it is bad to generalize, we make generalizations all the time in medicine like most patients with disease x had risk factor y, etc. . . most cases of right sided heart failure are caused by . . . attendings certainly make generalizations about students. I wouldn't want to malign the entire ob/gyn field, obviously there are some excellent preceptors, however, it maybe true that on a whole, via medical culture as it stands today, ob/gyn clerkships, IMHO, allow a level of abuse not seen on other clerkships. . . this is what needs to be addressed.

I am 300% with you on this one! I have not experienced the level of abuse that I did in Ob in any other of my rotations. While maybe not all Ob rotations are bad, I would say most are.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I think that a national movement to reform Ob/Gyn clerkships nationwide would be a great step in relieving the suffering of so many medical students and produce more humanistic physicians. There is a logic in Ob/Gyn that has nothing to do with rationality, after my Ob/Gyn my nervers were fried, and the treatment by attendings and evaluations have much less correlation with how well you do, or how hard you work and can leave you feeling very disillusioned with medicine.

There is power in numbers.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I agree. I had a poor experience during a shadowing experience as a freshman and swore off the profession. I even made sure ob/gyn was my first rotation so i could get it out of the way. Well, even though the hours were tough and some of the attitudes were toxic, I learned and got along with a lot of residents and faculty. I have experienced toxic and great ppl in all of the rotations during 3rd year....including pedi and psych. I would also recommend doing an away rotation at another prgm for those who are interested in ob/gyn but hated their rotation at their home institution. I am glad I did b/c I plan to apply to residency prgms this fall. I know residency will be stressful but I don't plan to turn into the stereotypical B**** ob/gyn resident that some of my friend's claim i will become.

I really hope if you do end up doing Ob that you are not a mean, evil and psychotic resident like alot of Ob residents end up being. Be humane to students and care for your patients. Always remember how you felt when you were a student.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

My experience in Ob/Gyn made me lose faith in ability of human beings to be kind to each other. Ob/Gyn is a very dehumanizing experience. I constantly remember those psychology experiments where they see how many volts a regular joe from the street would administer to a "volunteer" (who wasn't really shocked), but who pretended to be electrocuted. The average Joe when ordered by a "doctor", simply a person in a white coat, would increase the "voltage" by hundreds of volts although the volunteer screamed. I think that they take normal medical students into ob/gyn residency and turn them into people who are at ease with inflicting pain, humiliation and mental anguish in medical students via almost every known dirty tactic, if the medical profession was the army, Ob/Gyns would be the people who's job it is to kidnap terrorists and torture them to death in secret facilities. By the same analogy I guess internists would your standard army corps, surgeons the hot-shot fighter pilots, radiologists the radar technicians in the battleship, pathologists would handle what they still do, family practice docs would be the army corps of engineers who try to get clean water to people, neurologists would be communications officiers who man the electronic communication networks, pediatricians would be those standard troops in the news who are seen playing soccer with children or helping to rescue people kidnapped by terrorists.

Why are Ob/Gyns allowed to treat students so poorly? How do residencies even get enough applicants for Ob/Gyn?

Granted, I'm a pretty sardonic and antisocial human being who can find the negative side of just about anything but damn. You seriously need help.

 

[persia]

Well, my ob rotation was horrible, H O R R I B L E. In capital letters. !!!

I constantly felt like I was in another dimension, one where everything I said was sort of taken out of context, and not in a good way. I always felt like I had said or done something terrible, and people were always snarling at me. L&D nurses, residents and especially academic attendings. The community docs were super nice, tho.

I was constantly chastized in those stupid c sections for not holding things the right way or cutting the suture 'wrong.' Funny, the community docs always said I did an excellent job and all my surgery evals said the same thing.

It was a complete nightmare and I could hardly even go in everyday. Gyn was better, it's almost like plain old surgery. But my God, the residents and the academic staff were always fighting among themselves and I of course got sucked into that whirlpool of hate. They said some of the meanest things I ever heard to my face. Worse, was the stuff they sort of snidely said around me, but about me. It was like a junior high nightmare. Mean, mean people.

I think Child speaks plain but truthful stuff. I think she reveals the dark side of medicine pretty accurately.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Well, my ob rotation was horrible, H O R R I B L E. In capital letters. !!!

I constantly felt like I was in another dimension, one where everything I said was sort of taken out of context, and not in a good way. I always felt like I had said or done something terrible, and people were always snarling at me. L&D nurses, residents and especially academic attendings. The community docs were super nice, tho.

I was constantly chastized in those stupid c sections for not holding things the right way or cutting the suture 'wrong.' Funny, the community docs always said I did an excellent job and all my surgery evals said the same thing.

It was a complete nightmare and I could hardly even go in everyday. Gyn was better, it's almost like plain old surgery. But my God, the residents and the academic staff were always fighting among themselves and I of course got sucked into that whirlpool of hate. They said some of the meanest things I ever heard to my face. Worse, was the stuff they sort of snidely said around me, but about me. It was like a junior high nightmare. Mean, mean people.

I think Child speaks plain but truthful stuff. I think she reveals the dark side of medicine pretty accurately.

I am sooooooooooooooo relieved to hear that other people's Ob experiences were bad. I too felt as if I was in another dimension! It was strange too because I had just come off my first rotation for which I got a clinical outstanding and was repeatedly told how great I was! Then Ob comes and it's like I went from super star to super idiot! I continue to postulate my initial idea: All of us who have been Ob-abused should form a coalition to have some change happen in Ob rotations. It won't help us, but it might help those coming behind us who will without doubt, also face horrible experiences if some changes don't occur.

 

[ChildNeuro]

I am sooooooooooooooo relieved to hear that other people's Ob experiences were bad. I too felt as if I was in another dimension! It was strange too because I had just come off my first rotation for which I got a clinical outstanding and was repeatedly told how great I was! Then Ob comes and it's like I went from super star to super idiot! I continue to postulate my initial idea: All of us who have been Ob-abused should form a coalition to have some change happen in Ob rotations. It won't help us, but it might help those coming behind us who will without doubt, also face horrible experiences if some changes don't occur.

Yup, alot of us are in the same boat when it comes to ob/gyn experience, it is exactly like another dimension. I would love to develope a coalition of students to address, in a respectful and calm manner mistreatment on clerkships, perhaps in general or with a focus on ob/gyn. I think that making ob/gyn clerkship more humanistic would improve the standing of ob/gyn's within the medical community, and attract more bright and kind-hearted med students into their residency, which one assumes ob/gyn PD's would want. I think that the best way to start would be for students to individuals write letters stating how their bad experience with ob/gyn could be improved, this makes what happens on these clerkships real. It would be great to start a national mailing list of medical students, residents, etc. . . who want change in medical education. My personal dream would be to have a national medical student abuse day, like the first Monday every October or something, where students and attending alike reflect on the treatment of students at their school, attedings and deans want students to be more humanistic and caring of their patients, well, charity starts at home and it is time that ob/gyn clerkship in general start becoming less abusive. Anybody want to make the first Monday in October National Medical Student Abuse Awarness Day? I think that early in the Fall semester is a good idea as third years have hit the wards within the past couple months and would have alot of questions about the optimal treatment of medical students in a clinical environment. We could advertise on studentdoctor.net and at our own schools, who knows it could be a hugely positive thing!

 

[Dr McSteamy]

how any of you laughed off OBgyn?
i.e, whenever someone harrassed you, you just had a smirk on your face and sorta chuckled?

it sounds like you people who want to cry, take the rotation too seriously. When you really don't care about something, not even asshoe attendings can move you.

 

[persia]

I kind of liked the actual work and some of the patients were sooo nice! and the babies, how can you not like that??

Several community docs urged me to go into ob, and you know I would have except that the academic people ripped me to shreds and tried to fail me. My shelf was good, my best all year! but the other stuff was horrible and made it sound like I was the most exceptionally horrible med student. And stupid too.

How sad is that? I really wanted to judge the field based on the nice community docs and the cool patients and some of the surgeons. But the actual people who were supposed to teach me made me feel - forget it, I can't do this. Some residents were pretty neat, tho. But most were really mean! I was really upset over that, and it still stings.

 

[ChildNeuro]

how any of you laughed off OBgyn?
i.e, whenever someone harrassed you, you just had a smirk on your face and sorta chuckled?

it sounds like you people who want to cry, take the rotation too seriously. When you really don't care about something, not even asshoe attendings can move you.

That is an excellent and valid point, I took ob/gyn *way* too seriously, and was totally exhausted and sleep deprived after the rotation. It is a fascinating observation that academic ob/gyn are mean, and communit ob/gyns are nice, I had the exact same experience, but didn't think it was generally true, it is interesting to note that other medical students have the same observation. I really loved the actual work, probably because I understood the pathophysiology a little better than some other stuff, and your right who doesn't love little babies! Of course, neonatology in peds is great too for the same reason. At some point you realize that attendings are not being constructive, and then you doubt everything they do and say, it is too much of a game removed from taking care of patients.

 

[PreMedAdAG]

I was kind of hoping for this result...I'm on OB-Gyn right now and if it gets any worse than this I'm seriously gonna consider dropping out! The catty residents and attendings, disgusting deliveries, SO MUCH BLOOD, and not to mention their surgeries are boring they have like 4 of them that they do over and over again. If I never have to see another caesarean section, D&C, or hysterectomy life will be good! Not to mention the marathon incontinence surgeries!

But seriously, what makes it so unpleasant isn't the work so much as it is the personalities...ugh.

I second EVERYTHING you just said - I'm in hell

 

[nykka3]

how any of you laughed off OBgyn?
i.e, whenever someone harrassed you, you just had a smirk on your face and sorta chuckled?

it sounds like you people who want to cry, take the rotation too seriously. When you really don't care about something, not even asshoe attendings can move you.

yeah i have done that...most times it works esp. if it is well knows that the resident/attendant is mean to everyone. but most times i was laughing on the inside since it is much safer that way.

 

[Top Gun]

how any of you laughed off OBgyn?
i.e, whenever someone harrassed you, you just had a smirk on your face and sorta chuckled?

it sounds like you people who want to cry, take the rotation too seriously. When you really don't care about something, not even asshoe attendings can move you.

I thought about that too. But unfortunately, if you look like you're laughing when they yell at you, they might go completely postal on you.

 

[Medstudentquest]

yeah i have done that...most times it works esp. if it is well knows that the resident/attendant is mean to everyone. but most times i was laughing on the inside since it is much safer that way.

Laughing was not an option for me. Once when the chief resident was giving a presentation, which was terrible, and the jerk attending was tearing her apart because she did not know some very basic things, and at one point he said something kinda mean, but really funny and I sort of chuckled for like a milli second, and that was followed by a horrid pimping session a few days later by such said resident. Ugh. So traumatic!

 

[Top Gun]

You know, the sad part is, when I did my OB/Gyn rotation, I actually thought the subject matter itself was pretty interesting and the procedures were pretty cool. Unfortunately, the bitchy residents and as$hole attendings completely ruined it for me.

 

[lord_jeebus]

It's easy to tell people not to take OB/Gyn too seriously, but I know people who *failed* because of personality conflicts with house staff or attendings.

Worse, I know of someone who *failed to match* in OB/Gyn because of what they wrote in a letter of "recommendation."

My prime motivation on that rotation was not to have to repeat it.

 

[persia]

WHAT??

That is like the meanest thing I have ever heard. If someone asked me for a letter of reference and I didn't like them I would say 'student, I would like to write you a strong letter but I can't do it for XYZ reason.' But I would say something sort of decent like, I didn't observe you much, or it was early in the year and your strength wasn't as high as I am sure it is now. I would NOT write one that screwed them, because - that would be insane. And mean. And, did I say insane??

And if I was a PD reading a terrible letter like that, I would feel sorry for the smiling student in front of me and I would try and find out the truth: nice student/mean attending or whatever.

 

[ChildNeuro]

WHAT??

That is like the meanest thing I have ever heard. If someone asked me for a letter of reference and I didn't like them I would say 'student, I would like to write you a strong letter but I can't do it for XYZ reason.' But I would say something sort of decent like, I didn't observe you much, or it was early in the year and your strength wasn't as high as I am sure it is now. I would NOT write one that screwed them, because - that would be insane. And mean. And, did I say insane??

And if I was a PD reading a terrible letter like that, I would feel sorry for the smiling student in front of me and I would try and find out the truth: nice student/mean attending or whatever.

Ob/Gyn to me seems to be a very poitical field. I.e. attendings can make evaluations based on personal feelings, and not on merit. Ob/Gyns are *notorious* for writing a horrible LOR for someone that they don't want to be in Ob/Gyn and will think nothing of torpedoing you plans to be an Ob/Gyn. There is alot of jealousy in ob/gyn, I don't know why, alot of the board scores in ob/gyn are around average, maybe some of these people want to be surgeons i.e. yell at people in ORs but aren't smart enough. What you think is important to you, i.e. getting objective feedback and a fair LOR means nothing to alot of Ob/Gyn attendings. Also, if you declare interest in Ob/Gyn you WILL be graded on a tougher curve than some timid medical who wants to do IM and just want to skate by in ob/gyn. It is *very* annoying knowing that you are working harder than other students, know more ob/gyn, yet are being targeted because some big egoed attending wants to show you who is boss. In favor of Ob/Gyns the absolute best clinician educator I ever had was an outpatient Ob/Gyn at a community center who loved to teach, not just grandstand, pimp, and cut-down students like hacks. Medical students in the U.S. need a national movement to change ob/gyn clerkships somehow, or at least spread the word about how malignant these clerkships are may cause enough embarassment about their maltreatment of medical students will make them change, or at least become afraid of lawsuits. There was one Ob/Gyn attending the nurse's talked about who was mean to everybody, like made students and residents lives hell, and the nurse was upset because he lived into his 90s and had a long life to cause alot of emotional damage. This made me think how bizarre a field Ob/Gyn is.

 

[ChildNeuro]

I second EVERYTHING you just said - I'm in hell

Document why it is hell, they like pouring salt in the wound, and a bad evaluation might show up later in your file without you being informed. They can get pretty nasty, and really don't think about the consequences of their actions.

 

[ChildNeuro]

I thought about that too. But unfortunately, if you look like you're laughing when they yell at you, they might go completely postal on you.

They already are postal. If they want to make you a target they will.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Document why it is hell, they like pouring salt in the wound, and a bad evaluation might show up later in your file without you being informed. They can get pretty nasty, and really don't think about the consequences of their actions.

Yep. They did that to me! I wasn't allowed to give out evals. And they didn't even had the guts (most of them) to sign the lies they wrote down on evals. They suck.

 

[ChildNeuro]

Yep. They did that to me! I wasn't allowed to give out evals. And they didn't even had the guts (most of them) to sign the lies they wrote down on evals. They suck.

Yeah. Ob/Gyn is alot more like business than a real profession due to back-handed stuff like this going on.

 

[nykka3]

Ob/Gyn to me seems to be a very poitical field. I.e. attendings can make evaluations based on personal feelings, and not on merit. Ob/Gyns are *notorious* for writing a horrible LOR for someone that they don't want to be in Ob/Gyn and will think nothing of torpedoing you plans to be an Ob/Gyn.

GEEZ I HOPE YOU ARE WRONG! So far my LOR writers have either volunteered w/o me asking and/or seemed eager to write it. I have no choice but to trust the process.

 

[Medstudentquest]

GEEZ I HOPE YOU ARE WRONG! So far my LOR writers have either volunteered w/o me asking and/or seemed eager to write it. I have no choice but to trust the process.

Ob gyne people have offered to write you letters of rec? That's very strange. I would be careful about them if I were you. I was "offered" to have a letter written by my site director too, but then I was totally ripped to shreds on the evals. I say, watch out!

 

[nykka3]

Well, I prefer to be optimistic....

 

[musm2008]

I'd like to hear if anyone actually LIKED OB? Despite a horrible clerkship experience, what makes it redeemable? Does it bother you that these residents are mean, catty, miserable, obviously working more than 80 hrs/week, and appear to be hating life? If you had a good experience, what do you think about the fact that it has such a bad reputation and so many people have bad experiences.

I just wonder how this field attracts people. Even the surgeons appeared to be happy with their job and they are also working 80+ hrs/wk. I'd never seen anything like this.

The other thing that is irritating is when some of us have a horrible exprience and then some others thought it wasn't bad at all. What is different about us? Did they treat us differently or are we responding differently?

 

[Medstudentquest]

I'd like to hear if anyone actually LIKED OB? Despite a horrible clerkship experience, what makes it redeemable? Does it bother you that these residents are mean, catty, miserable, obviously working more than 80 hrs/week, and appear to be hating life? If you had a good experience, what do you think about the fact that it has such a bad reputation and so many people have bad experiences.

I just wonder how this field attracts people. Even the surgeons appeared to be happy with their job and they are also working 80+ hrs/wk. I'd never seen anything like this.

The other thing that is irritating is when some of us have a horrible exprience and then some others thought it wasn't bad at all. What is different about us? Did they treat us differently or are we responding differently?

I think that sometimes people who match into Ob go into Ob because they initially wanted to match into surgery but couldn't, so they figure Ob is better than nothing because there is some surgery involved. Also if you look at trends, alot of the programs are no longer able to fill their spots with American seniors, but have quite a proportion of foreign medical graduates. I know that was the case where I did Ob. Maybe they are unhappy they couldn't match, they work long hours, the schedule is crazy, and they don't have a good lifestyle due to the hours and responsibilities they have. That's my 0.2.

 

[nykka3]

I think that sometimes people who match into Ob go into Ob because they initially wanted to match into surgery but couldn't, so they figure Ob is better than nothing because there is some surgery involved. Also if you look at trends, alot of the programs are no longer able to fill their spots with American seniors, but have quite a proportion of foreign medical graduates. I know that was the case where I did Ob. Maybe they are unhappy they couldn't match, they work long hours, the schedule is crazy, and they don't have a good lifestyle due to the hours and responsibilities they have. That's my 0.2.

Well there was only one Ob/Gyn residency program that didn't fill this past year. Applications are up and more US grads ARE applying to Ob/Gyn. I agree there may be a few who are doing Ob/Gyn as a second choice but there are many competitive applicants that are and have applied and matched into Ob/Gyn b/c they actually love the profession. Check out the stats b/c the trends are changing. Everything is cyclical. Also applications are up for those applying to general surgery. Some speculate that the 80 hour rule has something to do with it. I know you had a poor clerkship experience but try not to stereotype the whole profession ok. Third year is a tough year and there is bound to be something that you didn't like. Luckily, at my school students are encouraged to help make changes in the curriculum. For instance, there is now no overnight shift and more free weekends for those on the ob/gyn clerkship b/c student's imput were recognized. Also, our faculty and ombusdman (sp?) encourage confidential disclosure of any bad behavior among faculty towards students or students toward students. I have seen the behavior of residents and faculty change based on student's confidential complaints. Maybe more schools should do the same.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Well there was only one Ob/Gyn residency program that didn't fill this past year. Applications are up and more US grads ARE applying to Ob/Gyn. I agree there may be a few who are doing Ob/Gyn as a second choice but there are many competitive applicants that are and have applied and matched into Ob/Gyn b/c they actually love the profession. Check out the stats b/c the trends are changing. Everything is cyclical. Also applications are up for those applying to general surgery. Some speculate that the 80 hour rule has something to do with it. I know you had a poor clerkship experience but try not to stereotype the whole profession ok. Third year is a tough year and there is bound to be something that you didn't like. Luckily, at my school students are encouraged to help make changes in the curriculum. For instance, there is now no overnight shift and more free weekends for those on the ob/gyn clerkship b/c student's imput were recognized. Also, our faculty and ombusdman (sp?) encourage confidential disclosure of any bad behavior among faculty towards students or students toward students. I have seen the behavior of residents and faculty change based on student's confidential complaints. Maybe more schools should do the same.

I don't stereotype, there are things that they are the way they are though. If you look at the threads, you will see that there are alot of people who have been abused in Ob. Maybe your school happens to be one of the few where they have an easy Ob rotation. That's not the normal thing. The mere fact that they don't make you stay overnight says alot. My call schedule in Ob was q4, overnight every time and most of the time you either would get 2 hours of sleep and sometimes none. The experience of easy Ob rotations, however, is not the norm. Most of my rotations have been tough, but there is a difference between being tough and fair, from being insane and psychotic and where I get abused just because the people are crazy. I think your case is very unique and when I tried to disclose the abuse, nothing was done. So again, maybe your school is more student protective, mine and most other schools are not. Look at the poll and you'll see why Ob is disliked by so many.

 

[getunconcsious]

I don't stereotype, there are things that they are the way they are though. If you look at the threads, you will see that there are alot of people who have been abused in Ob. Maybe your school happens to be one of the few where they have an easy Ob rotation. That's not the normal thing. The mere fact that they don't make you stay overnight says alot. My call schedule in Ob was q4, overnight every time and most of the time you either would get 2 hours of sleep and sometimes none. The experience of easy Ob rotations, however, is not the norm. Most of my rotations have been tough, but there is a difference between being tough and fair, from being insane and psychotic and where I get abused just because the people are crazy. I think your case is very unique and when I tried to disclose the abuse, nothing was done. So again, maybe your school is more student protective, mine and most other schools are not. Look at the poll and you'll see why Ob is disliked by so many.

I agree. I think that a GOOD experience in OB is the exception rather than the rule. Thus if the profession is going to be stereotyped, I think "malignant psychotic skanks on their periods" suits the specialty perfectly.

I know people may be pissed off at the stereotyping of OB/Gyn, but if the shoe fits...