Why did you choose Podiatry/Is it worth it?

[GypsyHummus]

My cousin just came out of pod school and is in residency now. I have a question to all the pod students:

I will preface this post by saying I have the utmost respect and admiration for all pod students as well as practicing pods out there. Pod school is just as hard as med school and sucks the same amount of life out of people and working as a pod plays a big role in the medical field. I say this, because I am about to ask some questions that some people might find offensive.

What the heck brought you here? Why in the world would you ever choose to go to podiatry school and not MD/DO and just specialize in the foot and ankle?

4 years of medical school level training, 3 years of surgical residency, and lots of paperwork and headaches, why are podiatrists so poorly reimbursed when compared to other medical professions? After asking many of the pods in my area and my cousins how much they make, it seems they can only gross about 130K (take home more like 90K). I would think that the background and education of a MD/DO would make as much as an MD/DO, if not more because they (pods) do surgery.

The only reason I can fathom people going to podiatry school is because they couldn't get into any other professional school program or they got a great scholarship to pod school. To those in pod school now, does this accurately represent your class?

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[LittleMopeHead]

Your "fathom" is a misconception and there's plenty of people out there that may think the same. It may be true to a certain point, but that's not always the case. There are students with really high GPA and MCAT scores that did not bother to go MD/DO route for various reasons. The majority of my class loves this field because of personal interest, it's challenging and incorporates almost every aspect of medicine, with the concentration and specialization in the lower extremity. I can see in them that they all want to be the best podiatrist and want to bring the profession forward. A lot do get the scholarship they applied for and deserve, which in turns make them have less debt than other fields (MD/DO, dentistry, etc.). Think of it this way. Who would you refer to that can manage and treat the foot the best? If you need a procedure done on the foot, who would save you more money? If I was a patient, I'd pick a podiatrist. You see, it's not all about the money or how much a podiatrist makes. That comes when you become the best at what you do. My question to you is what does your cousin say about podiatry?

 

[jellybean2020]

I'd hope that 130k is more likely the base income before factoring in incentives (% of whatever $ brought in over a certain threshold). Certainly it varies depending on location and situation, but I'd say new DPM's should be able to make comparable salary to family medicine practitioners. The salary is definitely lower compared to the other surgical specialties , but it should be enough to live comfortably with.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Your "fathom" is a misconception and there's plenty of people out there that may think the same. It may be true to a certain point, but that's not always the case. There are students with really high GPA and MCAT scores that did not bother to go MD/DO route for various reasons. The majority of my class loves this field because of personal interest, it's challenging and incorporates almost every aspect of medicine, with the concentration and specialization in the lower extremity. I can see in them that they all want to be the best podiatrist and want to bring the profession forward. A lot do get the scholarship they applied for and deserve, which in turns make them have less debt than other fields (MD/DO, dentistry, etc.). Think of it this way. Who would you refer to that can manage and treat the foot the best? If you need a procedure done on the foot, who would save you more money? If I was a patient, I'd pick a podiatrist. You see, it's not all about the money or how much a podiatrist makes. That comes when you become the best at what you do. My question to you is what does your cousin say about podiatry?

Thank you for the reply. I agree too, I would also pick a podiatrist, as they are experts in the foot and ankle. I feel however that many non invasive food services that they provide can be done by a Fam Med person.

In regards to my cousin:

She wanted to go to MD/DO school but couldn't cut the grades. She had something like a 3.2 c and 3.0 s GPA and a 22 MCAT. She wouldn't tell me exact stats.

When I asked her about it (she is in residency now, not making attending salary, so I took her advice with a grain of salt) she said she liked podiatry, but she was not in love with it. She told me that if she had to do it again, she would pick something that wasn't so long to complete, like PA school or nurse anesthesiologist.

She also told me that many of the schools were having residency troubles, and that many of her friends did not match into a program. Is this still the case? She graduated a few years ago.

What I could pick up is that she desperately wanted to be a "Doctor" of some sort and went for the school that accepted her. I don't blame her, as there is a 6 figure salary at the end of the tunnel and indeed, podiatrists are Doctors. I just don't understand why someone would not try and bolster their application for DO or MD when pod school is just as hard.

Was it worth it though? I know it says you are a student, but as of now are you happy you made the choice of pod?

 

[pacpod]

Yes, there are some people that go to pod school because yes, it is easier to get into than MD and DO. I can only speak from personal experience, but this is absolutely what I wanted to go into. I had the stats to get into DO no problem, but that is not what I wanted to do. I grew up going to a pod since I was quite young who was also a family friend. This person made a big impact on my professional life.

In regards to reported compensation, I would pay more attention to MGMA or the ACFAS reported compensations. In my opinion, these more accurately reflect today's financial situation.

Yes, there is a problem with a residency shortage right now but it is well on it's way to resolution. In the past year, 52+ positions have already been opened. If you ask me, that is impressive. There are even two more programs ready for on-site review, for a total of 5 entry PGY-1 seats, available to view on CPME's website.

As it goes with any profession, you must love what you do or you will hate it no matter what the salary is. You can't pick a job just because you get to be called "doctor" or get a large salary. It won't be worth it. If you love the field of podiatry, great! I believe the future is bright.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@pacpod... The MGMA report seems to be inflated IMO... 260+k median for pod? This is not what I heard from podiatrists when I used to work in the OR... To be fair, it seems like these MGMA salaries are inflated for almost all specialties.

 

[didymus]

@pacpod... The MGMA report seems to be inflated IMO... 260+k median for pod? This is not what I heard from podiatrists when I used to work in the OR... To be fair, it seems like these MGMA salaries are inflated for almost all specialties.

That's interesting. I've heard from numerous sources that MGMA is the most reliable data for salary figures out there, and that new grads in all specialities should use those figures in contract negotiations. Not only that, but just perusing jobs on sites like doccafe, practicelink, etc. shows many posts that withhold specific salary numbers, but say that the salaries are consistent with MGMA figures. Also, in my experience, professionals low ball their salaries when talking with peers. I know there are some who think docs will exaggerate their earnings due to the pervasively competitive nature of medicine, but, again, my experience has been the opposite, with physicians way understating what they make, and, more often, being quite evasive about exact figures.

That said, I was also surprised by the numbers on MGMA.

 

[newres64]

I know there are some who think docs will exaggerate their earnings due to the pervasively competitive nature of medicine, but, again, my experience has been the opposite, with physicians way understating what they make, and, more often, being quite elusive about exact figures.

Very true. Also one has to remember that podiatry (and dentistry for that matter) is a profession where a significant percentage of docs are solo-practioners who own their own business. Anyone who owns there are business knows the "game"- to write off as many personal expenses as "business expenses" that is legally allowable. For example, a podiatrist who owns his own practice might just pay himself $150,000/year but writes off $50,000/year in personal expenses as business expenses. So in reality he really is making closer to $200,000 than $150,000

 

[FootAndAnkle]

Why in the world would you ever choose to go to podiatry school and not MD/DO and just specialize in the foot and ankle?
[...]
The only reason I can fathom people going to podiatry school is because they couldn't get into any other professional school program or they got a great scholarship to pod school.

To go M.D./D.O and specialize in F&A orthopedics would take four years of medical school, five years of orthopedic surgery residency, and one year of fellowship training. As a podiatrist with a three year residency, you accomplish the same (or better) skillset as the orthopedist did in six years of postgraduate training.

While unable to comment on others' reasons, neither of the two reasons you fathomed were why I chose podiatry school - grades and scholarship dollars probably shouldn't be the main reason for choosing a profession in my opinion.

 

[CapCrunch]

This is

To go M.D./D.O and specialize in F&A orthopedics would take four years of medical school, five years of orthopedic surgery residency, and one year of fellowship training. As a podiatrist with a three year residency, you accomplish the same (or better) skillset as the orthopedist did in six years of postgraduate training.

While unable to comment on others' reasons, neither of the two reasons you fathomed were why I chose podiatry school - grades and scholarship dollars probably shouldn't be the main reason for choosing a profession in my opinion.

This is only valid if you can only envision yourself working with the foot and ankle. Otherwise, you can become an ortho in only 2 years more than it would take to be a dpm. While the foot and ankle is unique in some ways, there are more options given to the ortho who can do ankles, elbows, hips, and other joints. In addition, I feel as if most students are apprehensive about pursuing podiatry due to the possibility of realizing during clinicals that their true passion lies in neurology or cardiology.

Unlike the field of dentistry (which podiatry resembles the most), podiatry is still desperately clinging to the notion that it is identical to the MD/DO profession, while they continue to spit on the podiatry legacy. Embrace the profession. It is unique, necessary, and most of all, it serves a useful purpose in America's healthcare.

 

[FootAndAnkle]

This is only valid if you can only envision yourself working with the foot and ankle. Otherwise, you can become an ortho in only 2 years more than it would take to be a dpm. While the foot and ankle is unique in some ways, there are more options given to the ortho who can do ankles, elbows, hips, and other joints.

What the heck brought you here? Why in the world would you ever choose to go to podiatry school and not MD/DO and just specialize in the foot and ankle?

So in other words it's only valid if addressing the OP's question?

People don't go into podiatry to become general orthopedic surgeons, they go to become podiatrists. A lot of medical specialties overlap with podiatry, but none are the same.

If you can't envision yourself working only on the foot and ankle, you're obviously not one of those people who's best cut out for podiatric medicine.

Unlike the field of dentistry (which podiatry resembles the most), podiatry is still desperately clinging to the notion that it is identical to the MD/DO profession, while they continue to spit on the podiatry legacy.

For you to say this is fairly humorous. First you are saying that the M.D. and D.O. professions are identical, which is essentially "spitting on the legacy" of either one or the other, because they both have unique historical origins, though presently identical legal scopes of practice in the eyes of U.S. law. Podiatry, formerly known as chiropody, is an older profession than osteopathic medicine as founded by A. T. Still and most podiatrists I have met are proud of their profession's heritage and systematic advancements. Are podiatrists proud their expertise has grown? Yes. Is that a bad thing or does that mean podiatrists are disgracing a professional legacy? Not in my opinion.

Also, while I fully support enthusiasm, "Embrace the profession," was just a bit strong for me - maybe I'm just not into applying anthropomorphism to my career choices, or maybe I truly don't have the same depth of passion as you for the field, but I just had to put that out there. Shame on me if it's the latter.

 

[CapCrunch]

Using the term MD/DO is hardly equating the two as equal. I am more than familiar with the differences between allo/osteo. However, most physicians do not choose to integrate OMT in their daily practice, so for all intents and purposes, they are equivalent. My main point was that comparing the podiatry model vs the ortho F/A model is only applicable if your goal is the management of the foot and ankle.

I don't think we're on the same page here. I'm not denigrating the profession at all, nor am I criticizing those who chose one over the other. All I'm saying is that (speaking for myself) I am not considering podiatry due to some deep interest in the foot and ankle. I am interested in the surgical and non-surgical management of pathologies, the biomechanics, and the ability to treat and cure ailments (something that podiatry provides).

I am not so myopic as to think that every student gunning for ortho will match ortho. I have to do my own sorting, and contemplate whether or not I must match into a surgical subspecialty to be happy. If that is the case, I will choose podiatry school. If not, I will choose medical school.

 

[hughesn2]

Another thing to take into fact is that: If your only real concern is about the $$$$$$$$$ then you are not practicing medicine the way it was meant to be practiced. I ran into way too many kids in the residential college inside Michigan State in which I attended where in Freshman year they came into college as pre-med students (which was about 60% of our 400 combined students in the 4 different chem1 classes) who came from a wealthy family so they just wanted to go into a profession that is known to make big bucks. Then they realized how hard the undergrad education will be, then they learned how hard the professional graduate education would be. Too many freshman there who I ran into wanted to become a doctor because of the $$$$$.

To me, becoming a podiatrist the money is an incentive NOT THE REASON. Yes, you need money to survive. Yes, you will have lots of debt. For me, the huge debt over my head after graduation was a big reason I told myself a month ago not to go into podiatry...and being terrified of the MCAT. Then I realized that it really is a profession that you can enjoy until you are in your late 60s as long as your health is in good condition. The way I look at DPM, DO, MD, etc. is that they all focus on medical benefits for others.

I do think that a main reason why Pod Schools have to have a lower matriculate GPA and MCAT scores is that it is a rather unknown profession. All throughout HS I wanted to be a podiatrist. I really never wanted to be a DO or MD. I wanted to go into podiatry because when I was in 8th grade I had plantar fasciitis in both heels and osgood schlatter's in both knees. The MD and DO I went to did very little for the osgood schlatters, but the podiatrist I went to was amazing. My podiatrist did more for me on my first visit with him than my family physician did in my four visits to him. So to me it was all about first hand experiences that guided me to podiatry. The only thing I regret was listening to my college counselor my freshman year at MSU instead of doing the research myself. I asked two counselors about how to become a podiatrist and both were under the impression that you had to go to MD or DO school and then specialize in podiatry during your rotations. I took their word for it since this was a residential college inside MSU that specialized in the pre-professional students. So I realized after my freshman year that there was no way I was going to be getting accepted into an MD school since I had just a 3.2 GPA after two semesters since I was not as prepared as others for the gen chem class I took. Then fast forward to my senior year, after about 3yrs being pre-PA I finally did some research on a backup plan and found out podiatry school was it's own program. So ever since then I was pre-podiatry....and then I got anxious about the debt when I am 31yrs old.

To me, I kinda realized for the debt aspect you need to understand that many private practices also make an extra income by selling products. If you are a well known practice in your area several major companies will give your practice will give you an extra $6K to $10K a year just to advertise a product out to your customers. To me, $110K after taxes plus your bonuses and endorsements sounds like a great job that you can do till you're 65 or even later if you want. As long as you love it, you'll stick with it. At least that is the mindset you need. It'd be great to be in your 30s and you can live like a king, but the professional world of medicine your 30s are most likely your "in-debt" age range.

(This comment is only directed towards the OP)

 

[Zaiko]

At the end of the day, the reason the stats are so low is due to the pay. If the average podiatrist was paid 250K+, the requirements would go up quite a bit. The length of time spent in school has a great deal of influence too. Yes other things factor into a the decision to go to podiatry school but money is the reason for the low numbers, not so much the lack of exposure. An AA-C (anesthesiology PA) is a field Im sure less people actually know about but their GPA/MCAT stats are better than DO schools and rival that of many MD schools. It is because the pay can be anywhere from 120K-180K after 2-3 years.

I also ask myself why is Urology such a high ranked specialty in the MD/DO world? Simple, the pay. People say feet can be disgusting blah blah, but Im pretty sure waking up everyday looking at penises all day isnt such an exciting thing either.

 

[heybrother]

Whenever I read these sort of threads I always expect someone to bring up the fact that podiatrists cut and grind nails. It never really happens, but I can't help but think that plenty of young pre-meds have shadowed a podiatrist and walked out of the office knowing they'd never do this. Did I mention I'm very pro-shadowing?

 

[FootAndAnkle]

Unlike the field of dentistry (which podiatry resembles the most), podiatry is still desperately clinging to the notion that it is identical to the MD/DO profession, while they continue to spit on the podiatry legacy.

Using the term MD/DO is hardly equating the two as equal. I am more than familiar with the differences between allo/osteo. However, most physicians do not choose to integrate OMT in their daily practice, so for all intents and purposes, they are equivalent.
[...]
I don't think we're on the same page here. I'm not denigrating the profession at all, nor am I criticizing those who chose one over the other.

I agree we're not on the same page (metaphorically, of course, since we are on the same SDN thread). First off, I think most would agree that saying podiatry is spitting on its historical legacy and desperately clinging to a false notion is, in fact, denigrating the profession.

I really don't know much about dentists' training, so I better not comment there (though I am fairly sure they do not approach the level of invasive surgery podiatrists do without going into OMS, which also requires attaining a more medically oriented degree).

With regard to lumping M.D.s and D.O.s together as one profession, this is only really an issue because you juxtapose them with criticism of podiatrists’ treatment of their “legacy.” While allopaths and osteopaths both have the same flexibility with regard to scope of practice, your statement ignores the fact that the “legacies” of both podiatric and osteopathic medicine are only what they are as a result of that of the allopathic tradition. Andrew Still himself was an M.D. and formed osteopathic medicine using this medical knowledge in conjunction with his osteopathic theories. Were it not for the extensive use of allopathic medicine’s advancements, osteopathy would have remained in a state similar to what is seen with chiropractors and naprapaths. Chiropody has an older history than osteopathic techniques, but ultimately contemporary podiatric medicine would not be extant were it not for the use of techniques and advancements adopted from allopaths. If you consider how difficult advancements in scope of practice were for both the podiatric and osteopathic professions and how much each has drawn from allopathic medicine, perhaps you’ll be less quick to say D.P.M.s are spitting on their historical roots without making the same allegation of present-day D.O.s, particularly if, as you said, so many disregard the usefulness of their most unique trait. In my opinion, criticizing either is completely unnecessary, as I think adopting successful methods in practice and education is a good trend, not a poor one, and singling one group out for doing this just seems hypocritical. Ultimately, all three are in one form or another continuing the tradition of medical advancement that's been going on since Galen, Hippocrates, etc.

We’re all in it for the betterment of our patients, so best of luck whichever direction you pursue. My apologies for the post length.