Withdrawing from ACGME match position? Next year options?

[as90]

Hi,
I matched into a position however my partner will not be able to relocate due to work conflicts that arose. I may or may not qualify for a match waiver through NRMP. 50/50% chance. If I don't manage and I amicably withdraw from the program, I understand that I will have a match violation through NRMP for up to 1-3 years.

If I were to re-apply after graduation this June to only DO programs, would I be able to do so, or will they likely not take me due to the NRMP match violation? The DO match is a separate match entity so I figure I should be able to apply but I don't know how many interviews I'll be eligible for as they might see me as "damaged goods" and not offer me a position.

Does anyone know how this would work out?

Thanks

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[SLC]

This seems like something that won't end well. However, my suggestion would be to contact a few "dummy" AOA programs and see how they feel about the idea. You'll likely get better info from that than from here.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Hi,
I matched into a position however my partner will not be able to relocate due to work conflicts that arose. I may or may not qualify for a match waiver through NRMP. 50/50% chance. If I don't manage and I amicably withdraw from the program, I understand that I will have a match violation through NRMP for up to 1-3 years.

If I were to re-apply after graduation this June to only DO programs, would I be able to do so, or will they likely not take me due to the NRMP match violation? The DO match is a separate match entity so I figure I should be able to apply but I don't know how many interviews I'll be eligible for as they might see me as "damaged goods" and not offer me a position.

Does anyone know how this would work out?

Thanks

Why would these other programs think you would treat their binding match agreement any differently then you have the NRMP? This is a legally binding agreement, honestly you and your SO should have had more discussions before you got yourself into this potentially career damaging (ending?) dilemma.

 

[sia_simba]

Not a very good idea. But you can always bet your luck with the AOA programs. Just be careful because unless you have something signed, people's word don't mean much.

I was the associate program director of an AOA obgyn program. I actually screen all the application submission and have a very strong say in who gets rank and who doesn't. Your situation would be a red flag if I reviewed your application because who is to say that if I take you into my program, you won't just leave again.

Its a headache for me to try and find someone else, especially half-way into pgy1 or even pgy2/pgy3 year. If I don't keep the spot filled, it creates a problem for GME at the hospital and also for my program and other residents. Then I will not have an even PGY level for all years and the program will be staggered. Not to mention, the hospital loses money from medicare reimbursement and I will look like an idiot.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I would be very weary to take you into my program unfortunately.

 

[as90]

Not a very good idea. But you can always bet your luck with the AOA programs. Just be careful because unless you have something signed, people's word don't mean much.

I was the associate program director of an AOA obgyn program. I actually screen all the application submission and have a very strong say in who gets rank and who doesn't. Your situation would be a red flag if I reviewed your application because who is to say that if I take you into my program, you won't just leave again.

Its a headache for me to try and find someone else, especially half-way into pgy1 or even pgy2/pgy3 year. If I don't keep the spot filled, it creates a problem for GME at the hospital and also for my program and other residents. Then I will not have an even PGY level for all years and the program will be staggered. Not to mention, the hospital loses money from medicare reimbursement and I will look like an idiot.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I would be very weary to take you into my program unfortunately.

Would you guys know that I had a match violation via NRMP?

Thanks

 

[preDoGuy24]

Would you guys know that I had a match violation via NRMP?

Thanks

Did that really all go over your head? I hope you are trolling, if not then I hope you DO pull out of the nrmp and blackball yourself, there are plenty of more qualified people out there that don't match at all.


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[serimeri]

I think if you do that then AOA pd's already know because your NRMP # is also associated with your application. So they would know about the violation. not 100% sure tho

 

[costales]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/2015-Violations-Policy.pdf
E. Consequences If Allegations of a Violation are Confirmed
1. For completed investigations confirming a violation of a Participation Agreement by an individual
applicant:
a. The Final Report will be delivered to the applicant with copies to:
(1) the applicant's medical school official, with a request that the report be placed in the applicant’s permanent file
(2) the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates if the applicant is a student/graduate of a foreign medical school
(3) the NRMP institutional official and the director of the program to which the applicant matched or accepted a position during SOAP
(4) the NRMP institutional official and director of the program to which the applicant has applied or switched (if known)
(5) the party who originally reported the violation
(6) the NRMP Executive Committee
(7) the American Board of Medical Specialties
(8) the applicant's residency program director if the violation occurred in a fellowship Match
(9) the Federation of State Medical Boards if the applicant is to be permanently identified as a Match violator or has been permanently barred from future NRMP Matches
(10) any parties whom the NRMP has determined are relevant to its investigation.

 

[moonwake]

No offense but matching into residency literally says whether or not you will become a doctor and be able to pay off your debt. SO work stuff might have weight in where you go but why would you risk completely losing everything after 4 years. SO or not this will ruin your life.

 

[RadsonRads]

I don't understand why you can't just go somewhere away from your sig-other for a year

 

[as90]

I don't understand why you can't just go somewhere away from your sig-other for a year

It's not just 1 year, its 4 years. The program that I am going to be at is very malignant and won't let me leave earlier from what I have heard.

 

[RadsonRads]

It's not just 1 year, its 4 years. The program that I am going to be at is very malignant and won't let me leave earlier from what I have heard.

Residency contracts are year to year.

 

[SLC]

It's not just 1 year, its 4 years. The program that I am going to be at is very malignant and won't let me leave earlier from what I have heard.

I'm left wondering why you ever ranked this place. Didn't you ever hear the advice not to rank a place you couldn't see yourself being willing to go?

I had some real dogs in the bottom half of my list, but I still could have made it work there. No way on earth would I have ranked a place that I could tell was going to create such problems. Because when you rank places you aren't willing to go to, things like this happen!

 

[mspeedwagon]

In your shoes, I would start in the program and then work hard to swap. In the meantime, may be your SO might be able to get a job where you are. My SO went away to med school in Upstate NY while I lived in California. It sucked to spend four years apart, but we made it work. She matched in NYC and I was able to easily get a job here (I couldn't get one in Upstate).

The AOA will know about your violation and you may not match at all. Think long and hard if practicing as a doctor is more important to you or not spending a few years apart from your SO (may be one... may be four... contracts are generally year to year... not sure what your SO does and how good the job market is where you are). In your shoes, I'd take the match, run with it. And, hopefully the SO would understand and one of you will be able to join the other.

 

[j4pac]

Your SO better be well off because you are heading down the path of ruining your chance to become a practicing physician. If you SO is making 6 to 7 figures...then knock yourself out...drop out of residency. But if she is making 50k a year...you my friend are screwed. You will never be able to pay back your loans. The biggest reason for divorce in our country is financial issues.

It looks like you didn't plan for your future and now have to suffer with the consequences.

Be responsible and enter your PGY-1 year and hope to swap for a different PGY-2 position. That is the only way this story is going to have a happy ending.

 

[sia_simba]

I think this thread is pretty much to its end point.

I believe everyone is saying... TAKE THE POSITION.

You never know how a place is until you are there. Then you just make the best of things.

NRMP and residency is NOT like Burger King... you can't have it your way!

Good luck!

 

[as90]

I appreciate the advice and criticism. I know this is all my fault. I am just going to suck it up. I have made my bed and now I have to sleep in it.

 

[Trogghunter]

Nurses will sleep in that bed with you

 

[so721]

I'm even thinking with the way these DO schools are opening up and multiplying, the amount of unfilled post match spots available an AOA will not be there next year.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Reading this thread gave me a virtual panic attack. Glad you finally realize what a career-damaging move it is to not take your residency position, OP.

 

[hallowmann]

I'm even thinking with the way these DO schools are opening up and multiplying, the amount of unfilled post match spots available an AOA will not be there next year.

Probably not next year. 2017 maybe, when we have ~450 new grads.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Probably not next year. 2017 maybe, when we have ~450 new grads.

It will be fine though because, you know, the merger.

 

[Mehd School]

Reading your post just made me anxious.

Take the damn spot. Don't risk your career and however many thousands of dollars you paid for your degree.

 

[Mass Effect]

It's not just 1 year, its 4 years. The program that I am going to be at is very malignant and won't let me leave earlier from what I have heard.

The program can't dictate what you do after the first year. The contract is only for ONE year. In fact, they can choose not to renew your contract if they want. But if they do renew you, you have the option not to re-sign.

 

[as90]

The program can't dictate what you do after the first year. The contract is only for ONE year. In fact, they can choose not to renew your contract if they want. But if they do renew you, you have the option not to re-sign.

If I leave after a year without a good LOR from the PD how unlikely will it be that I'll ever get another chance anywhere else.

 

[Mass Effect]

If I leave after a year without a good LOR from the PD how unlikely will it be that I'll ever get another chance anywhere else.

Why are you planning for a bad LOR? Be the best employee you can for one year, then get a good LOR and move on.

 

[group_theory]

You don't have to stay the entire year. Read your residency contract (that you will sign) on how many days/weeks/months advance notice you must give (to either your PD and/or GME office) if you intend to resign your position. It cannot be done within the first 45 days of starting residency, or NRMP will consider it a match violation. Just as programs can terminate you before the entire year is over, you can resign before the entire year is over too.

Now whether this is a good idea to resign (and potentially put your future at risk) is a different matter. You also don't want to burn bridges since medicine can be a small community. Also, your PD can always report you to the state board for the ubiquitous "unprofessionalism", which can haunt and hurt you since you don't even have an unrestricted medical license yet.

But technically you don't have to stay the entire year. (but read your residency contract carefully, as well as the NRMP contract that you have already signed - last thing you need is your residency suing you for $$$ for breach of contract)

The relevant passage from NRMP:
Applicants who give notice of resignation, resign, or vacate a position within 45 days of the start date specified in the appointment contract are presumed to have breached NRMP policy unless they can demonstrate, through the NRMP waiver process, that they entered into the program in good faith and the NRMP determines they have a reasonable basis to be released from the binding commitment to the program.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-MPA-Applicants-and-Programs.pdf

 

[ThoracicGuy]

If I leave after a year without a good LOR from the PD how unlikely will it be that I'll ever get another chance anywhere else.

Almost zero.