Withdrew from MD, start DO afresh, have to report on ERAS?

[YoungG007]

My friend failed a class in their first semester of MD (78%, passing was 80). The school was completely unaccommodating and the only option was to voluntarily withdraw (but the failing grade was still posted to their transcript). Luckily, they was able to secure a spot in a DO school for the following year, starting fresh. Just a question about the impact on their future: will they have to report this on their ERAS under the "Extended/Interrupted Education" section? My initial guess is no since there's no way the residency program would find out about the failure - they withdrew and started afresh, with no record other than a transcript, and since they withdrew and the DO school didn't ask for a transcript, that transcript will never be reported to anyone unless my friend is explicitly asked for it (which they don't on the ERAS, other than in the section in question). But, of course we want to do the right thing and not get in trouble, and that's why I'm asking here to make sure. Thanks.

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[rokshana]

My friend failed a class in their first semester of MD (78%, passing was 80). The school was completely unaccommodating and the only option was to voluntarily withdraw (but the failing grade was still posted to their transcript). Luckily, they was able to secure a spot in a DO school for the following year, starting fresh. Just a question about the impact on their future: will they have to report this on their ERAS under the "Extended/Interrupted Education" section? My initial guess is no since there's no way the residency program would find out about the failure - they withdrew and started afresh, with no record other than a transcript, and since they withdrew and the DO school didn't ask for a transcript, that transcript will never be reported to anyone unless my friend is explicitly asked for it (which they don't on the ERAS, other than in the section in question). But, of course we want to do the right thing and not get in trouble, and that's why I'm asking here to make sure. Thanks.

uh..they do EXPLICITLY ask for you to list ALL schools that you attended...

 

[J ROD]

Yeah you will have to report it. Unless you want to risk it. Lies always seem to catch up with you and make things worse.

 

[Raryn]

My friend failed a class in their first semester of MD (78%, passing was 80). The school was completely unaccommodating and the only option was to voluntarily withdraw (but the failing grade was still posted to their transcript). Luckily, they was able to secure a spot in a DO school for the following year, starting fresh. Just a question about the impact on their future: will they have to report this on their ERAS under the "Extended/Interrupted Education" section? My initial guess is no since there's no way the residency program would find out about the failure - they withdrew and started afresh, with no record other than a transcript, and since they withdrew and the DO school didn't ask for a transcript, that transcript will never be reported to anyone unless my friend is explicitly asked for it (which they don't on the ERAS, other than in the section in question). But, of course we want to do the right thing and not get in trouble, and that's why I'm asking here to make sure. Thanks.

Your "friend" will need to report every med school they ever enrolled in.

By the way, we all realize that there's more to the story. Pretty much every single one of us knows people that failed a class or two their M1 year that didn't have to completely withdraw from the medical school and were offered a variety of options to remediate. I can't imagine there's an MD-granting institution in the United States that will wash a student out completely only because they low pass/failed a single course without other circumstances involved.

 

[YoungG007]

Your "friend" will need to report every med school they ever enrolled in.

By the way, we all realize that there's more to the story. Pretty much every single one of us knows people that failed a class or two their M1 year that didn't have to completely withdraw from the medical school and were offered a variety of options to remediate. I can't imagine there's an MD-granting institution in the United States that will wash a student out completely only because they low pass/failed a single course without other circumstances involved.

Unfortunately, there isn't more to the story. It is a top 50 US medical school and the administrative committee made the final decision to fail my friend solely on their poor performance in the class. They are an otherwise good student who has nothing against them, but just couldn't pull it through in the finals and failed by 2%. The administrative committee was inflexible and didn't give any other option, and their decision is binding according to the student handbook. It was the first semester of an integrated curriculum with three classes: two doctoring/clinical classes and one medical knowledge class. My friend passed the two doctoring/clinical courses, the failure came in the medical knowledge course. Three other students failed that course too and they were also dismissed.

 

[rokshana]

Unfortunately, there isn't more to the story. It is a top 50 US medical school and the administrative committee made the final decision to fail my friend solely on their poor performance in the class. They are an otherwise good student who has nothing against them, but just couldn't pull it through in the finals and failed by 2%. The administrative committee was inflexible and didn't give any other option, and their decision is binding according to the student handbook. It was the first semester of an integrated curriculum with three classes: two doctoring/clinical classes and one medical knowledge class. My friend passed the two doctoring/clinical courses, the failure came in the medical knowledge course. Three other students failed that course too and they were also dismissed.

sorry...i agree with raryn on this one...US med school have remediation available for both the 1st and even the 2nd year classes...your friend isn't telling you the whole truth, but in any case, its a moot point...but having to disclose is not...lying (and omission is the same a lying) will ALWAYS get you into more trouble than just documenting the fact that he attended a MD school for one semester.

 

[J ROD]

 

[J ROD]

Yeah, I have never seen a school not give a second chance. Unless you failed like very course and was obviously not trying.

 

[YoungG007]

Yeah, I have never seen a school not give a second chance. Unless you failed like very course and was obviously not trying.

I live with my friend so I know all of the circumstances. I also helped them with the entire process of preparing for the administrative hearing and helped write their statement, so I can 100% tell you there is nothing they're hiding. The committee sent us the minutes of their deliberation and they reached the conclusion that my friend was unprepared for medical school. From talking to past students, it seems like the administrative committee at this particular school is very strict and not lenient. We tried the appeals process and offered a remediation plan (designed with the head professors) and even a repeat of the entire year, but the committee refused and the decision was final.

 

[J ROD]

Well, I guess he should just report it and try and move forward. All you can do at this point.

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree with the others. I've seen people fail a test, a course and in some cases even an entire year and still be allowed to remediate and get a second, and in a few cases even a third chance. So I'm not buying the whole "the school is very strict" story. Either the "friend" isn't telling you about the previous strikes he/she already had, or lacks the insight to appreciate them.

At any rate, I agree with the others that this all gets reported on applications, and the whole "how would they ever find out" defense is a bad one. (But that line of thinking, if used before, could certainly explain the mess OPs friend is in).

 

[YoungG007]

I agree with the others. I've seen people fail a test, a course and in some cases even an entire year and still be allowed to remediate and get a second, and in a few cases even a third chance. So I'm not buying the whole "the school is very strict" story. Either the "friend" isn't telling you about the previous strikes he/she already had, or lacks the insight to appreciate them.

At any rate, I agree with the others that this all gets reported on applications, and the whole "how would they ever find out" defense is a bad one. (But that line of thinking, if used before, could certainly explain the mess OPs friend is in).

I'm telling you, I know the full story and there is nothing else. In the student code of conduct, the committee is given full authority to make a decision about the fate of the student, and there are no established polices about repeating a course or remediation. From what they said at the meeting, they deemed that my friend was unqualified for medical school and should therefore be dismissed. Although my friend only failed by a few percentage points, they were still near the bottom of their class, so from what I heard during the deliberation, that was their main argument.

And the "line of thinking" was just my initial thought (not theirs), that's why I made this post, so I can get the right answer and help them do the right thing. Obviously my line of thinking has changed now that I have your input and thank you for it.

That said, is there anything else we can say to the school to try and get them to take back my friend? As I mentioned, the committee's decision is final according to the school's policy, but if their unwillingness to consider remediation or a repeat is so unusual for US schools, is there some system-wide policies we could cite?

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm telling you, I know the full story and there is nothing else. In the student code of conduct, the committee is given full authority to make a decision about the fate of the student, and there are no established polices about repeating a course or remediation. From what they said at the meeting, they deemed that my friend was unqualified for medical school and should therefore be dismissed. Although my friend only failed by a few percentage points, they were still near the bottom of their class, so from what I heard during the deliberation, that was their main argument.

And the "line of thinking" was just my initial thought (not theirs), that's why I made this post, so I can get the right answer and help them do the right thing. Obviously my line of thinking has changed now that I have your input and thank you for it.

That said, is there anything else we can say to the school to try and get them to take back my friend? As I mentioned, the committee's decision is final according to the school's policy, but if their unwillingness to consider remediation or a repeat is so unusual for US schools, is there some system-wide policies we could cite?

Meh. Again, since this story is far afield from what anyone on here has ever seen, I doubt you can get useful advice. All schools have student codes of conduct that give the school broad powers. No US schools have been known to throw someone out after one test score unless there's more to the story you don't know or for whatever reason aren't appreciating. Fwiw some of the few people who fail out of med school continue to be oblivious to the extent they are screwing up and burning second and third chances so that could be what's going on here. There's a LOT more to this story but it apparently isn't being provided or appreciated here.

 

[Psai]

That's a strict school. I know people who have retaken classes in the summer or repeated the year. Schools put a lot of time, money and effort into their students, it seems to be a little counterproductive to throw them away so quickly

 

[spartan25]

I've always wondered why people post questions for their "friends". It's an anonymous forum...

 

[deleted480308]

I'm joining the "this friend is actually you" group and either there is more to the story that you are hiding or there is more to thw story that you are too oblivious to see. I have a classmate that called on the carpet over some blatant attitude stuff that we all saw that they just didn't. I know them and like them, I saw the genuine shock in his eyes. He really didn't see how people perceived him that way. On the chance you think you are being honest, it's time for some self reflection to see if your version of honesty is also accurate

You might be "that" guy that doesn't see it

 

[YoungG007]

I'm joining the "this friend is actually you" group and either there is more to the story that you are hiding or there is more to thw story that you are too oblivious to see. I have a classmate that called on the carpet over some blatant attitude stuff that we all saw that they just didn't. I know them and like them, I saw the genuine shock in his eyes. He really didn't see how people perceived him that way. On the chance you think you are being honest, it's time for some self reflection to see if your version of honesty is also accurate

You might be "that" guy that doesn't see it

It's not me. I'm actually a pre-medical student who's applying to MD schools for the first time this year. The friend is my roommate. As I mentioned earlier, this school dismissed others students who failed courses without offering remediation along with my friend too, and has do so multiple times in the past. So yes, it must be a comparatively strict school.

 

[YoungG007]

I will ask my friend to post a detailed story of what happened on their own account on the correct forum to see if anyone else can provide relevant insight.

 

[J ROD]

It's not me. I'm actually a pre-medical student who's applying to MD schools for the first time this year. The friend is my roommate. As I mentioned earlier, this school dismissed others students who failed courses without offering remediation along with my friend too, and has do so multiple times in the past. So yes, it must be a comparatively strict school.

I would suggest you apply to other schools.......just in case. That school sounds a little too much to risk.

 

[Law2Doc]

...The friend is my roommate. As I mentioned earlier, this school dismissed others students who failed courses without offering remediation along with my friend too, and has do so multiple times in the past...

Hate to break it to you but roommates often lie or don't tell you the whole story. Or as mentioned might not be appreciating the whole story. Don't buy it.

A lot of us have been on SDN long enough that one of us would have heard about this supposed "one strike and you are out" US allo school if they actually had done this "multiple times in the past". Didn't happen. Either your roommate is playing down his/her level of blame, or not appreciating his/her level of screw up, or the whole story didn't happen. We've all seen med schools give people second or third chances. We've seen people fail tests, courses and in some cases even a whole year and be allowed to remediate.

One thing for certain is that being a "friend" or "roommate" of someone doesn't per se give you as much inside info or insight as you seem to want to claim. You only are hearing the story they are relaying/sharing. You might be buying into the same denial they are using to ignore that they are already out of second chances. Frankly you might be too close because you are buying what they are selling without question, while everyone else on this thread has many.

 

[J ROD]

People NEVER lie! Especially friends that are competitive and want to feel more superior.....and not admit they are failing at something.

 

[Goro]

OP, just listen to L2D. His comments are spot on. It's actually harder to get out of med school than to get in. Meaning, once you're accepted, we do everything in our power to see to it that you get to graduation.

Being the dad of two children, I know that there are two sides to every story. You roommate got dismissed for very good reasons. Note the use of the plural.

One does NOT get dismissed for failing by two points.

Maybe failing the same thing for two consecutive years, and barely passing the other coursework.

Hate to break it to you but roommates often lie or don't tell you the whole story. Or as mentioned might not be appreciating the whole story. Don't buy it.

A lot of us have been on SDN long enough that one of us would have heard about this supposed "one strike and you are out" US allo school if they actually had done this "multiple times in the past". Didn't happen. Either your roommate is playing down his/her level of blame, or not appreciating his/her level of screw up, or the whole story didn't happen. We've all seen med schools give people second or third chances. We've seen people fail tests, courses and in some cases even a whole year and be allowed to remediate.

One thing for certain is that being a "friend" or "roommate" of someone doesn't per se give you as much inside info or insight as you seem to want to claim. You only are hearing the story they are relaying/sharing. You might be buying into the same denial they are using to ignore that they are already out of second chances. Frankly you might be too close because you are buying what they are selling without question, while everyone else on this thread has many.

 

[rokshana]

I'm telling you, I know the full story and there is nothing else. In the student code of conduct, the committee is given full authority to make a decision about the fate of the student, and there are no established polices about repeating a course or remediation. From what they said at the meeting, they deemed that my friend was unqualified for medical school and should therefore be dismissed. Although my friend only failed by a few percentage points, they were still near the bottom of their class, so from what I heard during the deliberation, that was their main argument.

And the "line of thinking" was just my initial thought (not theirs), that's why I made this post, so I can get the right answer and help them do the right thing. Obviously my line of thinking has changed now that I have your input and thank you for it.

That said, is there anything else we can say to the school to try and get them to take back my friend? As I mentioned, the committee's decision is final according to the school's policy, but if their unwillingness to consider remediation or a repeat is so unusual for US schools, is there some system-wide policies we could cite?

near the bottom of the class...but not actually the last on the list...so why wasn't the person on the bottom of the list dismissed? hmm? because there is something else..and maybe not necessarily academic...that made the committee decide he wasn't qualified to be in medical school.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Regardless of why, to answer the original question, your "friend" still has to put the previous school on his ERAS or risk getting caught in a lie.

 

[Law2Doc]

Regardless of why, to answer the original question, your "friend" still has to put the previous school on his ERAS or risk getting caught in a lie.

I'm wondering if the suggestion of not listing the school is an example of the kind of machinations that got the "friend" asked out of med school in the first place...

 

[YoungG007]

near the bottom of the class...but not actually the last on the list...so why wasn't the person on the bottom of the list dismissed? hmm? because there is something else..and maybe not necessarily academic...that made the committee decide he wasn't qualified to be in medical school.

Yes, others near/at the bottom of the class were dismissed too. And look, I was honestly just asking a question for my roommate. If you don't believe me and think I'm actually the person, feel free to look at my past posts (I've been active in 2015 application threads before this one was even written, confirming that I'm a premed student and I'm asking for a friend).

In no way was I trying to mislead or lie to anyone. It's not even my medical career we're taking about. The fact that I wrote this very post shows that I wanted to find the truth. I honestly didn't know whether a withdrawal would count on the ERAS or not; I just a wrote this post because I was concerned about my friend and wanted to get some clarity about their future by having a simple question answered. As you can imagine, having your roommate fail out of medical school can be very concerning so I just wanted to get some answers based on my initial thoughts. Sure, maybe I could have been more to the point with the question and didn't have to provide any of the additional info, I just thought it would help you answer the question and will try to be more concise in future posts. And looking back, I can see how my initial post could have made me sound deceptive. But now you all know what I was thinking and why I said what I did.

Thank you for your insight, but your inability to believe me and some of your remarks were not nice and made me feel like you didn't value me. Please remember that this a forum, where we help and respect each other. It should be obvious that the poster is speaking the truth and wants to get their question answered. I look forward to continuing my pursuit of medicine, helping my friend with theirs, and having better posts on SDN in the future.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yes, others near/at the bottom of the class were dismissed too. And look, I was honestly just asking a question for my roommate. If you don't believe me and think I'm actually the person, feel free to look at my past posts (I've been active in 2015 application threads before this one was even written, confirming that I'm a premed student and I'm asking for a friend).

In no way was I trying to mislead or lie to anyone. It's not even my medical career we're taking about. The fact that I wrote this very post shows that I wanted to find the truth. I honestly didn't know whether a withdrawal would count on the ERAS or not; I just a wrote this post because I was concerned about my friend and wanted to get some clarity about their future by having a simple question answered. As you can imagine, having your roommate fail out of medical school can be very concerning so I just wanted to get some answers based on my initial thoughts. Sure, maybe I could have been more to the point with the question and didn't have to provide any of the additional info, I just thought it would help you answer the question and will try to be more concise in future posts. And looking back, I can see how my initial post could have made me sound deceptive. But now you all know what I was thinking and why I said what I did.

Thank you for your insight, but your inability to believe me and some of your remarks were not nice and made me feel like you didn't value me. Please remember that this a forum, where we help and respect each other. It should be obvious that the poster is speaking the truth and wants to get their question answered. I look forward to continuing my pursuit of medicine, helping my friend with theirs, and having better posts on SDN in the future.

I can believe your friend/roommate may have told you this story. That doesn't mean you weren't duped. I could also maybe believe your roommate simply isn't self aware enough to realize this wasn't his/her first strike -- we see this a lot. People who choose to believe they are doing fine even though the school has met with them and told them they had better shape up. But a US allo school failing people out for one bad test simply isn't plausible. Med schools don't do this-- places routinely give people second and third chances, and we all know people who failed a test, a class, even a whole year and were allowed to continue; it would be big news on SDN if a US allo school did this, and we'd hear it from more than just someone's roommate.

 

[rokshana]

...some of your remarks were not nice and made me feel like you didn't value me.

really? did you really write this...you must be quite new to sdn then...

Please remember that this a forum, where we help and respect each other. It should be obvious that the poster is speaking the truth and wants to get their question answered. I look forward to continuing my pursuit of medicine, helping my friend with theirs, and having better posts on SDN in the future.

why should it be obvious? In fact, it is more obvious that something is not kosher when someone comes on here saying a US med school dismissed someone in the FIRST SEMESTER for failing ONE class by a few percentage points...either you are not forthcoming OR your friend has not been forthcoming with you...as L2D and others have stated, if there was a school out there that habitually has this practice...well it would be known.

and if the comments here, on an anonymous forum hurt your feelings, well...you will need a thicker skin for med school and residency...

 

[Goro]

Indeed. OP should stay away from New York City.

really? did you really write this...you must be quite new to sdn then...

and if the comments here, on an anonymous forum hurt your feelings, well...you will need a thicker skin for med school and residency...

 

[Psai]

Thank you for your insight, but your inability to believe me and some of your remarks were not nice and made me feel like you didn't value me. Please remember that this a forum, where we help and respect each other. It should be obvious that the poster is speaking the truth and wants to get their question answered. I look forward to continuing my pursuit of medicine, helping my friend with theirs, and having better posts on SDN in the future.

Where have you displayed value? Where have you helped anyone?

 

[Raryn]

Yes, others near/at the bottom of the class were dismissed too. And look, I was honestly just asking a question for my roommate. If you don't believe me and think I'm actually the person, feel free to look at my past posts (I've been active in 2015 application threads before this one was even written, confirming that I'm a premed student and I'm asking for a friend).

In no way was I trying to mislead or lie to anyone. It's not even my medical career we're taking about. The fact that I wrote this very post shows that I wanted to find the truth. I honestly didn't know whether a withdrawal would count on the ERAS or not; I just a wrote this post because I was concerned about my friend and wanted to get some clarity about their future by having a simple question answered. As you can imagine, having your roommate fail out of medical school can be very concerning so I just wanted to get some answers based on my initial thoughts. Sure, maybe I could have been more to the point with the question and didn't have to provide any of the additional info, I just thought it would help you answer the question and will try to be more concise in future posts. And looking back, I can see how my initial post could have made me sound deceptive. But now you all know what I was thinking and why I said what I did.

Thank you for your insight, but your inability to believe me and some of your remarks were not nice and made me feel like you didn't value me. Please remember that this a forum, where we help and respect each other. It should be obvious that the poster is speaking the truth and wants to get their question answered. I look forward to continuing my pursuit of medicine, helping my friend with theirs, and having better posts on SDN in the future.

To quote Lee, the founder of SDN

The forums are anonymous so you can feel comfortable being honest. Sharing personal issues, grades, and test scores naturally creates a lot of anxiety – anonymity provides our members both the ability to ask personal questions and share openly and without social pressures.

But with anonymity comes unique behaviors. The first is trolling – our members don’t tolerate it and trolls are reported and banned quickly. The second is “painful truth.” In an anonymous setting, you may hear truth that nobody else will share with you in person. Truth can sometimes hurt. Painful truth should not be confused with trolling.

The bolding is mine.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

To be fair to the OP, they describe a school with a completely integrated curriculum. Instead of having multiple courses with multiple grades, they instead have a single course that is the entire semester's performance. So the OP's roommate failed an entire semester, all reflected in "one grade". Given that, I could imagine that many MD schools would dismiss someone who failed all of the courses in a semester, rather than just a single course. An interesting potential issue with integrated curricula.

 

[rokshana]

To be fair to the OP, they describe a school with a completely integrated curriculum. Instead of having multiple courses with multiple grades, they instead have a single course that is the entire semester's performance. So the OP's roommate failed an entire semester, all reflected in "one grade". Given that, I could imagine that many MD schools would dismiss someone who failed all of the courses in a semester, rather than just a single course. An interesting potential issue with integrated curricula.

3 classes per the OP...2 doctoring, 1 medical knowledge....failed the medical knowledge course. Still, pretty steep but after just one semester? one year..MAYbe...but wouldn't there have been something on sdn about such a school? especially a "top 50" school?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

3 classes per the OP...2 doctoring, 1 medical knowledge....failed the medical knowledge course. Still, pretty steep but after just one semester? one year..MAYbe...but wouldn't there have been something on sdn about such a school? especially a "top 50" school?

I expect the 2 "doctoring" classes are the fluff courses that all medical schools have in the 1st two years about learning how to interact with patients. If there's only one medical knowledge course, it's got to be Anatomy + Biochemistry + Physiology etc. According to the OP, all of this is combined into one ginormous course. If so, if he/she did poorly in all components of the course, I could see a school letting them go. Much like if you failed all of your courses 1st semester, some schools would not give you another chance.

Anyway, I'm just pontificating. I have no inside knowledge (or outside knowledge, for that matter) of the OP's school.

 

[gyngyn]

I expect the 2 "doctoring" classes are the fluff courses that all medical schools have in the 1st two years about learning how to interact with patients. If there's only one medical knowledge course, it's got to be Anatomy + Biochemistry + Physiology etc. According to the OP, all of this is combined into one ginormous course. If so, if he/she did poorly in all components of the course, I could see a school letting them go. Much like if you failed all of your courses 1st semester, some schools would not give you another chance.

Anyway, I'm just pontificating. I have no inside knowledge (or outside knowledge, for that matter) of the OP's school.

I'm not even sure that the practice of dismissing a student for failing the first semester (without remediation or the option of an LOA depending on the situation) would stand up to LCME accreditation standards. It is certainly not consistent with stated goals of the schools that are trying these newer learning strategies. A serious professionalism issue, or loss (or absence) of technical standards would be another story, though...

 

[Goro]

Agree 100% with my learned colleagues. My school has a unified or integrated or vertical curriculum as well, and without outing too many pertinent details, passing the course isn't enough. There are courses (disciplines) within courses and you have to display a minimal competence in them. Should we really allow a student to progress who barely passes the master course, but has failed, say, Anatomy and Pathology????

I've had students pass courses (thanks to labs, quizzes, etc) and yet still fail EVERY exam in the course! They usually go on to fail COMLEX.

I expect the 2 "doctoring" classes are the fluff courses that all medical schools have in the 1st two years about learning how to interact with patients. If there's only one medical knowledge course, it's got to be Anatomy + Biochemistry + Physiology etc. According to the OP, all of this is combined into one ginormous course. If so, if he/she did poorly in all components of the course, I could see a school letting them go. Much like if you failed all of your courses 1st semester, some schools would not give you another chance.

Anyway, I'm just pontificating. I have no inside knowledge (or outside knowledge, for that matter) of the OP's school.

I'm not even sure that the practice of dismissing a student for failing the first semester (without remediation or the option of an LOA depending on the situation) would stand up to LCME accreditation standards. It is certainly not consistent with stated goals of the schools that are trying these newer learning strategies. A serious professionalism issue, or loss (or absence) of technical standards would be another story, though...

 

[playingfrombehind]

My friend failed a class in their first semester of MD (78%, passing was 80). The school was completely unaccommodating and the only option was to voluntarily withdraw (but the failing grade was still posted to their transcript). Luckily, they was able to secure a spot in a DO school for the following year, starting fresh. Just a question about the impact on their future: will they have to report this on their ERAS under the "Extended/Interrupted Education" section? My initial guess is no since there's no way the residency program would find out about the failure - they withdrew and started afresh, with no record other than a transcript, and since they withdrew and the DO school didn't ask for a transcript, that transcript will never be reported to anyone unless my friend is explicitly asked for it (which they don't on the ERAS, other than in the section in question). But, of course we want to do the right thing and not get in trouble, and that's why I'm asking here to make sure. Thanks.

That school is harsh...

1) on the dean's letter / MSPE - on one of the first pages it will list if you failed anything / if you did anything unprofessional, etc. - basically all the major red flags

2) On ERAS you have to list all the medical schools (as well as colleges, grad schools) you attended, I don't know if you have to provide a transcript of your previous medical schools but I would think so.

 

[j4pac]

c

Yes, others near/at the bottom of the class were dismissed too. And look, I was honestly just asking a question for my roommate. If you don't believe me and think I'm actually the person, feel free to look at my past posts (I've been active in 2015 application threads before this one was even written, confirming that I'm a premed student and I'm asking for a friend).

In no way was I trying to mislead or lie to anyone. It's not even my medical career we're taking about. The fact that I wrote this very post shows that I wanted to find the truth. I honestly didn't know whether a withdrawal would count on the ERAS or not; I just a wrote this post because I was concerned about my friend and wanted to get some clarity about their future by having a simple question answered. As you can imagine, having your roommate fail out of medical school can be very concerning so I just wanted to get some answers based on my initial thoughts. Sure, maybe I could have been more to the point with the question and didn't have to provide any of the additional info, I just thought it would help you answer the question and will try to be more concise in future posts. And looking back, I can see how my initial post could have made me sound deceptive. But now you all know what I was thinking and why I said what I did.

Thank you for your insight, but your inability to believe me and some of your remarks were not nice and made me feel like you didn't value me. Please remember that this a forum, where we help and respect each other. It should be obvious that the poster is speaking the truth and wants to get their question answered. I look forward to continuing my pursuit of medicine, helping my friend with theirs, and having better posts on SDN in the future.

You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

BTW...you're damn lucky that a DO school gave you a chance. I wouldn't have. Your MD failure will be a red flag...apply broadly to primary care residencies.