Would 500 hours of direct patient care be enough?

[hypertrophy95]

Lets say I have a good gpa and mcat score; as far as volunteering goes, would 500 hours of direct patient care be ample to get into medical school? Like the more the better obviously, but 500 isn't a small number is it? Please and thank you.

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[Mad Jack]

500 volunteer clinical hours? Yeah.

 

[Doctor Dream]

I'm a pre-med so take my advice for what it's worth, but there's a couple things here IMO

1. Direct patient care and volunteering are two different things. You can kill two birds with one stone though if you do some sort of clinical volunteering. There's some debate as to what qualifies as a clinical experience, but generally if you're in close quarters and interacting with patients, it's a clinical experience.

2. 500 hours I think (according to adcoms on here) is sufficient for volunteering and clinical experience. HOWEVER, those adcoms will also tell you it's not all about the amount of hours. It's about the knowledge and skills you gained during those experiences and how they shaped your desire to go into medicine or will make you a better physician down the road.

 

[hypertrophy95]

Wait direct patient care and volunteering are two different things? What do you mean? Right now I'm a volunteer at a hospital and at my hospital there are several categories of "direct patient care." The subcategory I'm in is called "companionship" which is when I watch over confused patients, feed them, and do other small stuff like helping the pct turn them prior to cleanings, helping them restrain them possibly if they're violent. Will that suffice? Is that the type of volunteer work that medical schools are seeking?

 

[Doctor Dream]

Wait direct patient care and volunteering are two different things? What do you mean? Right now I'm a volunteer at a hospital and at my hospital there are several categories of "direct patient care." The subcategory I'm in is called "companionship" which is when I watch over confused patients, feed them, and do other small stuff like helping the pct turn them prior to cleanings, helping them restrain them possibly if they're violent. Will that suffice? Is that the type of volunteer work that medical schools are seeking?

Prime example of direct patient care is like CNA work or EMT. You're working right up and close with patients (clinical experience) but you're getting paid so it's not volunteering obviously.

Sounds like what you're doing though is clinical volunteering. You're up close and personal with patients, and volunteering at the same time, ergo it's clinical volunteering.

 

[hypertrophy95]

Prime example of direct patient care is like CNA work or EMT. You're working right up and close with patients (clinical experience) but you're getting paid so it's not volunteering obviously.

Sounds like what you're doing though is clinical volunteering. You're up close and personal with patients, and volunteering at the same time, ergo it's clinical volunteering.

I see; so is clinical volunteering good enough for medical schools or do they want me to go as far as being an emt? Or more specifically; is clinical volunteering like the type that I am doing what most people do?

 

[Holmwood]

Wait direct patient care and volunteering are two different things? What do you mean? Right now I'm a volunteer at a hospital and at my hospital there are several categories of "direct patient care." The subcategory I'm in is called "companionship" which is when I watch over confused patients, feed them, and do other small stuff like helping the pct turn them prior to cleanings, helping them restrain them possibly if they're violent. Will that suffice? Is that the type of volunteer work that medical schools are seeking?

The actual requirement is "clinical experience" and is typically defined as working with patients. What you've been doing with direct patient care is sufficient. It doesn't matter if it's paid or volunteer work.

However, I would like to continue to emphasize @Doctor Dream 's second point in that it is the quality of the experience and its contribution to your work as a physician that is important about this experience. Your experience seems to be better tailored for someone getting into nursing (and interviewers may ask about this), so you have to spin this experience into something that'll help you establish your motivation to become a physician.

 

[hypertrophy95]

The actual requirement is "clinical experience" and is typically defined as working with patients. What you've been doing with direct patient care is sufficient. It doesn't matter if it's paid or volunteer work.

However, I would like to continue to emphasize @Doctor Dream 's second point in that it is the quality of the experience and its contribution to your work as a physician that is important about this experience. Your experience seems to be better tailored for someone getting into nursing (and interviewers may ask about this), so you have to spin this experience into something that'll help you establish your motivation to become a physician.

I see; so if I kinda stretch the truth a bit and make up solid reasons for how it has taught me things and heavily motivated me to become a physician then in theory I should be good to go right?

 

[Doctor Dream]

The actual requirement is "clinical experience" and is typically defined as working with patients. What you've been doing with direct patient care is sufficient. It doesn't matter if it's paid or volunteer work.

However, I would like to continue to emphasize @Doctor Dream 's second point in that it is the quality of the experience and its contribution to your work as a physician that is important about this experience. Your experience seems to be better tailored for someone getting into nursing (and interviewers may ask about this), so you have to spin this experience into something that'll help you establish your motivation to become a physician.

Eh, I wouldn't necessarily say that. It sounds like a lot of what OP does is CNA type stuff, which although is necessary for nursing, it's also great experience for someone looking to go into medicine. If they do ask about it, OP should have little difficulty explaining how CNA work shaped them into wanting to become a physician. I work as a CNA now and there's tons I've learned from it which can be applied to physician aspirations.

 

[Silent Cool]

Lets say I have a good gpa and mcat score; as far as volunteering goes, would 500 hours of direct patient care be ample to get into medical school? Like the more the better obviously, but 500 isn't a small number is it? Please and thank you.

That's about 10% of what you realistically need. I recall reading (I think it was on Medscape or in JAMA) that the average accepted student at an MD program has ~4800 clinical hours at the time of matriculation.
I'll post the article if I can find it.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's about 10% of what you realistically need. I recall reading (I think it was on Medscape or in JAMA) that the average accepted student at an MD program has ~4800 clinical hours at the time of matriculation.
I'll post the article if I can find it.

Seriously? I would believe 4800 hours of ECs, but 4800 clinical hours seems a bit high, wow.

 

[hypertrophy95]

4800???????? WTF??????????????? I just had a premature ventricular contraction =(

 

[Afford]

4800 hours? That's like 30 hours a week for 40 weeks for 4 years.

 

[hypertrophy95]

4800 hours? That's like 30 hours a week for 40 weeks for 4 years.

That's not even humanly POSSIBLE!! WTF

 

[johnnytest]

4800 hours = volunteering 18 hours per week for 5 years.

 

[johnnytest]

I think it's quality vs quantity. I was worried that my # of hours would not be enough but I talked to multiple adcoms at med school fairs and they all cringed when I asked "Is that enough?" They did mention they like seeing commitment over small volunteer projects. Volunteering 2 hrs a week for 2+ years at a hospital beats a one-day clinical experience.

 

[Aerus]

The actual requirement is "clinical experience" and is typically defined as working with patients. What you've been doing with direct patient care is sufficient. It doesn't matter if it's paid or volunteer work.

However, I would like to continue to emphasize @Doctor Dream 's second point in that it is the quality of the experience and its contribution to your work as a physician that is important about this experience. Your experience seems to be better tailored for someone getting into nursing (and interviewers may ask about this), so you have to spin this experience into something that'll help you establish your motivation to become a physician.

Clinical experience need not be tailored to fit certain healthcare professions. As long as it's direct patient contact, that's sufficient. You're testing to see if you can stand being around sick people. I'd argue that direct patient care is a much better clinical experience than the majority of premed hospital volunteer gigs nowadays.

That's about 10% of what you realistically need. I recall reading (I think it was on Medscape or in JAMA) that the average accepted student at an MD program has ~4800 clinical hours at the time of matriculation.
I'll post the article if I can find it.

False. Not even PA schools have an average of 4800 clinical hours and they require many more clinical hours than med schools.

4800???????? WTF??????????????? I just had a premature ventricular contraction =(

Most premeds do between 100-300 hours. Number-wise, you're good. However, the experiences you draw from these hours will be much more important than the hours themselves.

 

[Afford]

I've heard from my premed advisor that some schools don't see EMT as clinical experience because they don't interact with doctors/hospitals. Is that true?

 

[Aerus]

I've heard from my premed advisor that some schools don't see EMT as clinical experience because they don't interact with doctors/hospitals. Is that true?

Hospital exposure would be nice for any premed to have, but no, that's not true. EMT is a great clinical experience.

 

[hypertrophy95]

Johnny and Aerus you guys gave me hope! The guy who said 4800; I will have nightmares cause of you =/

 

[Afford]

Hospital exposure would be nice for any premed to have, but no, that's not true. EMT is a great clinical experience.

Cool. I've heard conflicting things from other EMTs at my college who went on medical school interviews because they said some people don't see it as clinically relevant, but it's too late to change my extracurriculars now.

 

[Holmwood]

I got this from university of maryland.
http://www.umbc.edu/premed/pdfs/UMBCPreMedMedicalAcceptedApplicants.pdf

It should give you some clue. Obviously, quality matters more than quantity.

I've heard from my premed advisor that some schools don't see EMT as clinical experience because they don't interact with doctors/hospitals. Is that true?

It's patient experience. You don't interact with doctors as much as you would like to, generally (if you read up on ER scribe vs EMT debates in SDN, you'll hear some interesting stories of EMTs that got Physician LORs. Those are exceptions though.) That's where the importance of shadowing comes in.

Ambulatory services is different from the bed-side experience you'll have with patients if you volunteer/work through other routes. Still, as long as you can link it to your future physician profession, it would be an excellent addition to your application.

 

[Lamel]

The 4800 hours thing is obviously not true.

 

[Aerus]

Cool. I've heard conflicting things from other EMTs at my college who went on medical school interviews because they said some people don't see it as clinically relevant, but it's too late to change my extracurriculars now.

That is why many schools look for shadowing supplemented into an application if the applicant's clinical exposure doesn't consist of a whole lot of physician observation.

 

[Doctor Dream]

That's about 10% of what you realistically need. I recall reading (I think it was on Medscape or in JAMA) that the average accepted student at an MD program has ~4800 clinical hours at the time of matriculation.
I'll post the article if I can find it.

You find me 1 article that says that and I'll find you 20 sources that say you don't.

 

[Silent Cool]

The 4800 hours thing is obviously not true.

Well at least *SOMEONE* saw that I was playing with the hearts and minds of paranoid SDNers.

I'm surprised that people actually bought it at all, LOL.

 

[hypertrophy95]

Well at least *SOMEONE* saw that I was playing with the hearts and minds of paranoid SDNers.

I'm surprised that people actually bought it at all, LOL.

Seriously, how do you freaking sleep at night???!!

 

[Lawpy]

Well at least *SOMEONE* saw that I was playing with the hearts and minds of paranoid SDNers.

I'm surprised that people actually bought it at all, LOL.

You're officially one of my SDN idols lol. Well done.

Personally, 500 hours is a bit much (since ~200-300 suffices usually). The important thing is to elaborate your experiences and how they tie into a personal interest in medicine.

 

[Afford]

Well at least *SOMEONE* saw that I was playing with the hearts and minds of paranoid SDNers.

I'm surprised that people actually bought it at all, LOL.

Lol it's easy to be frightened when I don't have any II's yet. Although, I was complete at my schools kind of late, so I'm not that worried yet. I just hope my committee letter was positive.

 

[hypertrophy95]

You're officially one of my SDN idols lol. Well done.

Personally, 500 hours is a bit much (since ~200-300 suffices usually). The important thing is to elaborate your experiences and how they tie into a personal interest in medicine.

Someone said that I have to explain how my experience has "taught" me things. Do they literally mean that my volunteer work has to have taught me actual facts and stuff or do they mean it in a metaphorical sense? Like maybe how it has further heightened my ambition of becoming a physician and other cutesy little chliches?

 

[Lawpy]

Someone said that I have to explain how my experience has "taught" me things. Do they literally mean that my volunteer work has to have taught me actual facts and stuff or do they mean it in a metaphorical sense? Like maybe how it has further heightened my ambition of becoming a physician and other cutesy little chliches?

It's the metaphorical/clichéd sense. No one's expecting you to know the actual facts/terminology/random stuff. Just what you experienced and how it strengthened your ambition.

 

[hypertrophy95]

It's the metaphorical/clichéd sense. No one's expecting you to know the actual facts/terminology/random stuff. Just what you experienced and how it strengthened your ambition.

omggg thank yoooooooooouuuuuuuu. I feel a bit more at ease now . and when will they "test" me on this stuff? Strictly during interviews or also in my personal statement?

 

[gettheleadout]

OP I have less than a quarter of that and I have interviews.

 

[hypertrophy95]

OP I have less than a quarter of that and I have interviews.

:O!!!! Ugh!!! you did lots of research? pl0x tell me your secrets. I just started my sophomore year =(

 

[Afford]

omggg thank yoooooooooouuuuuuuu. I feel a bit more at ease now . and when will they "test" me on this stuff? Strictly during interviews or also in my personal statement?

I think both. It's useful to use in your personal statement of why medicine and they will probably talk about extracurriculars during an interview. I haven't done any interviews yet, but during a mock interview with a Baylor med school professor, he really liked talking about my international service trip.

 

[Lawpy]

omggg thank yoooooooooouuuuuuuu. I feel a bit more at ease now . and when will they "test" me on this stuff? Strictly during interviews or also in my personal statement?

I doubt they'll test you on anything. Just be genuine about your experiences. They likely heard it already

 

[hypertrophy95]

What kind of extracurriculars should I do? I know playing sports is always good, but I'm a football guy and my school doesn't have a football team =/. So would clubs possibly suffice as e.c? I mean one of my personal extracurriculars is working out, but I doubt that counts. They'll just think I'm some dumb meathead jock =( lol

 

[gettheleadout]

:O!!!! Ugh!!! you did lots of research? pl0x tell me your secrets. I just started my sophomore year =(

Clinical experience is a "necessary-but-insufficient" type of requirement for a competitive application. You need a significant amount but returns diminish rapidly; 500 hours is ridiculous. Unless you've got non-trad work experience, your clinical experience will not likely be something that makes your app stand out. Research is one possible avenue to take to try and achieve that.

 

[Aerus]

What kind of extracurriculars should I do? I know playing sports is always good, but I'm a football guy and my school doesn't have a football team =/. So would clubs possibly suffice as e.c? I mean one of my personal extracurriculars is working out, but I doubt that counts. They'll just think I'm some dumb meathead jock =( lol

Your extracurricular activities should tell medical schools what kind of person you are, what kind of things you enjoy doing, and what motivations you have for going into medicine. Ask yourself: how can I portray this in 15 activities or less?

 

[Silent Cool]

Lets say I have a good gpa and mcat score; as far as volunteering goes, would 500 hours of direct patient care be ample to get into medical school? Like the more the better obviously, but 500 isn't a small number is it? Please and thank you.

Your hours are fine.

In this game however your #s matter most--GPA and MCAT. Most everything else is icing on the cake.

Publish if you can.
Apply early if you can.
Get the highest numbers you can.
Get the best recs you can, and submit a couple of extra beyond the minimum three.
Get some good volunteer hours.

X-fingers.

good luck.